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Car Forum / Jaguar Cars / December 2004Its all gone silent
Now I know Silent Night is on everyone's CD player right now, but I didn't think that applied to Jaguar Newsgroups - But its all gone quiet here !!! Does that mean that nobody in the world is having a problem with their Jag right now ? Do I have to say something controversial again to get a reaction ? Someone do something.... Stu >Now I know Silent Night is on everyone's CD player right now, but I didn't >think that applied to Jaguar Newsgroups - But its all gone quiet here !!! My CD player is busy with Michael Kaeshammer at the moment. >Does that mean that nobody in the world is having a problem with their Jag >right now ? My Jag (1967 420) is hibernating, problem-free, until Easter in a nice warm storage garage - just one of the joys of living in the Great White North! (In the last three hours we've had 7cm of new snow, and it's still falling!) >Do I have to say something controversial again to get a reaction ? Apparently not. >Someone do something.... I'm busy cleaning up some chrome bits, and trying to manufacture replacement sun visors.  SignatureAlanBrand Owen Sound, ON Canada Alan, What a pity!! I took my 420 out for a spin today in bright, sunny, 50 degree weather here in the South East. I remember when I lived in New Hampshire I had a friend who had moved there from Texas. After 3 years she looked at a group of us and simply stated, "I have finally figured out New Hampshire summers!! It finally gets warm enough to take off your long underwear on the morning of the 4th of July. UNFORTUNATELY, you have to put it back on that night because you are already headed into winter!!" She moved back to Texas about 3 months later. True story. Webserve > >Now I know Silent Night is on everyone's CD player right now, but I didn't > >think that applied to Jaguar Newsgroups - But its all gone quiet here !!! [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I'm busy cleaning up some chrome bits, and trying to manufacture > replacement sun visors. >Alan, > What a pity!! I took my 420 out for a spin today in bright, sunny, 50 >degree weather here in the South East. After a few months of anticipation, I'll enjoy my first trip in the spring much more! >I remember when I lived in New Hampshire I had a friend who had moved there >from Texas. After 3 years she looked at a group of us and simply stated, "I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >headed into winter!!" She moved back to Texas about 3 months later. True >story. Wimp! Keep moving and you don't feel the cold - I was much, much colder in the long, damp winters in England where I lived until I was 20. Alan >> >Now I know Silent Night is on everyone's CD player right now, but I >didn't [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> I'm busy cleaning up some chrome bits, and trying to manufacture >> replacement sun visors. Hi All, I've just got my XJS back from the paint and panel shop. Head to toe job. New windscreen, seals etc. I'm taking it out, enjoying the pleasure of having it back. Our Summer will mean many trips to the vineyards for lazy lunches and nectar. Chris > > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > Well, its blowing a gale outside, bloody freezing - And you lot are talking about the warm sunny weather. You really know how to make a bloke feel good !!! Stu > Now I know Silent Night is on everyone's CD player right now, but I didn't > think that applied to Jaguar Newsgroups - But its all gone quiet here !!! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Stu > Now I know Silent Night is on everyone's CD player right now, but I didn't > think that applied to Jaguar Newsgroups - But its all gone quiet here !!! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Stu (We're all observing a moment of silence in memory of all the Jaguar employees who've been laid off / sacked...) Latest rumor from Ford World Headquarters: Ford Board of Directors has lost patience with Jaguar and has instructed the management team to either turn it around in 2005 or face sale, or, if necessary, shut-down of the marque's UK operations, manufacturing & overseas operations by 2008. Losses have reached the point that after 15 years of ownership the Board feels compelled to act decisively. One has privately stated they see no profits in future years based upon the current plan and the ongoing losses can no longer be justified. They have ruled out any large scale investment in platforms, powertrains, etc. Thank Jac The Dope Nasser for all of this 1) he forced aluminum structures on the Company, depite all the evidence showing amssive marketplace resistance (Audi A98 prime example), 2) demanded a bottom-end vehicle (X-Type) be fast-tracked into production, despite all the evidence the public would not buy a re-badged Ford with Jaguar badging, 3) cobbled together the PAG fiasco, draining billions due to reorganization inefficiencies, turf battles, el incompatibilities in business cultures, personnel, etc. The currentr Ford management compounded the mess by diverting product development funds from Jaguar to Land Rover, crippling the marque, which weas already dealing with aged or uncompetitive platforms. The question of the year: If all Ford wanted to do was prevent GM from buying Jaguar, and have simply destroyed the brand in the process, what was the point in this entire exercise? Secondly, since history had already proven that Ford couldn't sell the Mondeo platform at either volume or at a profit, did they just think potential Jaguar owners were stupid, or what? NICE MOVES FORD!!!! When Jaguar gets shuttered, it will prove conclusively the utter failure of the Dearbon management culture. >> Now I know Silent Night is on everyone's CD player right now, but I >> didn't think that applied to Jaguar Newsgroups - But its all gone quiet [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > (We're all observing a moment of silence in memory of all the Jaguar > employees who've been laid off / sacked...) And as if all this isn't bad enough, Jaguar moves from 3rd to 1st in customer satisfaction, and most improved over all in the industry. Odd results from a company on the brink of extinction -- I don't think so. ;-) > Latest rumor from Ford World Headquarters: Ford Board of Directors has lost > patience with Jaguar and has instructed the management team to either turn [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>(We're all observing a moment of silence in memory of all the Jaguar >>employees who've been laid off / sacked...) > And as if all this isn't bad enough, Jaguar moves from 3rd to 1st in > customer satisfaction, and most improved over all in the industry. Odd > results from a company on the brink of extinction -- I don't think so. ;-) Too little, too late. Think about a $1.2 billion loss for '04 alone, added to annual losses nearly every year since '89. Estimate is if Jaguar is profiatble in '05 (highly unlikely) and every year thereafter, it will take another 15 to 20 years to break even. The Ford Board has had enough. >> Latest rumor from Ford World Headquarters: Ford Board of Directors has >> lost patience with Jaguar and has instructed the management team to [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>>(We're all observing a moment of silence in memory of all the Jaguar >>>employees who've been laid off / sacked...) > > And as if all this isn't bad enough, Jaguar moves from 3rd to 1st in > > customer satisfaction, and most improved over all in the industry. Odd [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > profiatble in '05 (highly unlikely) and every year thereafter, it will take > another 15 to 20 years to break even. The Ford Board has had enough. I think Ford missed an opportunity. Jaguar need not become a car for the masses. Jaguar need not be assembled by machine, but built by hand. Did the XJS need to be a fat, heavy, poorly built auto? I personally like the XJS looks, and I wish there had been a successor. I would be thrilled if it was like the MGR. "Well what about the new XK?" Well what about it? It is heavy and laden with fatuous things, it handling is marginal because the suspension was made as a compromise in comfort and handling. Its a 300lb runing against the 100lb competition. Besides, it not very aggressive looking; a womans car. I want fangs, bulges, and flames!!! <Not in that order> Listen, Jag should have looked at cars such as the Elise, not the Bimmers, not the Cadillacs. Jaguar should have made a car that appealed to the youth. Give them awesome chassis and a great engine. The formula for this wonderful car was Jag's own C, D, and E types. Build modern low volume cars that win races on and off the track, make them race ready. What is worse than bringing in one Ford lineup into the stable? Two. Frigg'n Idiots. As far as I am concerned the newer Jags are Lincolns; cars made for old people. ;-) <Not that I am old <wink wink>> Anyway. I am bored and this group is dead and boring. Where the hell is that lawyer I used to trade barbs with? I miss him <sniff>. Kreiger! DieInterim >> > And as if all this isn't bad enough, Jaguar moves from 3rd to 1st > in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > will take >> another 15 to 20 years to break even. The Ford Board has had enough. > I think Ford missed an opportunity. < Only ONE??? ;-) Indeed, they have shortsighted their way into a disater for Jaguar. > Jaguar need not become a car for the masses. Jaguar need not be assembled > by machine, but built by hand.> Well, from a build quality standpoint there's no doubt the moren Jaguars are leagues ahead of the vintage Bill Lyons cars. Unfortunately, the same Ford engineering / manufacturing management & processes that fixed Jaguar's chronic quality problems have also systematically sliced the heart out of the marque. A platforms & powertrains that could have competed with BMW 3 & 5 Series was what was neded, yet we got instead the typical Ford bencounter thugs and their "the public will never know the difference" attitude. This same mindest has failed countless times when Fords have been rebadged as Lincolns & Mercurys, yet they still persist. (The old expression: "The true definition o0f insanity is to do the same things over & over and expect a different result" clearly applies to Ford's handling of Jaguar!) < Did the XJS need to be a fat, heavy, poorly built auto? I personally like the XJS looks, and I wish there had been a successor. > That was a Bill Lyons design., but under British Leyland design. The last ones were quite good, but it was indeed large & heavy, certainly not a successor to the E-Type. Indeed, 30 years later we still look for an E-Type successor. Wolfgang Reiltzle proposed one on a dedicated platform, yet it was the first thing axed by Ford management. < I would be thrilled if it was like the MGR. "Well what about the new XK?" Well what about it? It is heavy and laden with fatuous things, it handling is marginal because the suspension was made as a compromise in comfort and handling. Its a 300lb runing against the 100lb competition.> XK has its moents, but you are correct, it's still a "boulevard" car, as JD Power refers to it, not a true "Sports Car" which is what Jaguar has needed all along. > Besides, it not very aggressive looking; a womans car. I want fangs, > bulges, and flames!!! <Not in that order> It was indeed designed to appeal to women. Great pains were taken in the initial research & development to get input from potential women owners / drivers. Not necessarily a bad thing if you know the Jaguar demographic, however, the car you want, indeed the cornerstone car Jaguar needs, well, it isn't the XK8 > Listen, Jag should have looked at cars such as the Elise, not the Bimmers, > not the Cadillacs. Jaguar should have made a car that appealed to the > youth. Give them awesome chassis and a great engine. The formula for this > wonderful car was Jag's own C, D, and E types. Build modern low volume cars that win races on and off the track, make them race ready.> Indeed, that would truly tap into the "brand DNA" Jaguar tried to bullshit everyone about when they rolled out the X-Type / Ford. Theior excuse was that Lexus & Audi base their ewntry level cars on common platforms. Great, but who wants to copy tarted up Toyotas or VWs when one is dealing with a magic brand like Jaguar? > What is worse than bringing in one Ford lineup into the stable? Two. > Frigg'n Idiots. As far as I am concerned the newer Jags are Lincolns; cars > made for old people. ;-) <Not that I am old <wink wink>>> HAH! Spot on! The S-Type, though not a bad car, is simply a Lincoln LS under the skin. The X-Type, well, it wouldnt even qualify as a Lincoln, it's simply a tarted up bottom-feeding Ford at heart. What a shame! Yesterday I was at my local Ford dealer, where they had a $145,000 Ford GT sports car on display. Beautiful, exciting, all words apply. However, as a Jaguar retoreee I couldn't help but wonder: If Ford can find the money to develop this exciting car, why can't they understand the needs of the Jaguar brand? If they just wanted to keep Jaguar away from GM, did they have to, in the end, just destroy it? The world wonders.... It's time for Ford to either properly fund the long term product plan for JAguar, or cut bait and sell it. Looks like that's what they're thinking about. Perhaps VW can be the white knight in all this, we hope so. >As far as I am concerned the newer Jags are Lincolns; >cars made for old people. ;-) <Not that I am old <wink wink>> You are right - without a true sports car Jags have a very old image; armchairs for 50+ year olds to drive sedately from the board room to the golf club :-) Matt SignatureMatthew Haigh --$matthaigh{News06}$@haigh.org-- GCRSoft, providing SMS solutions since 1996... http://www.gcrsoft.com http://www.moretext.com Not that there is anything wrong with being pampered. =) Jaguar is just narrowly focused. Perhaps others prefer format/regular chattter of other Jag NG's, and also none too keen on new format on Google and delays in postings appearing on web!!! eg http://www.jagtalk.com/forums/1/index.html http://forums.jag-lovers.org http://forums1.roadfly.org/jaguar/forums/xtype/
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