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Car Forum / Jaguar Cars / April 2005Series One Daimler Double Six Vanden Plas
Good evening Gentlemen, Anyone care to estimate how many examples of the aforementioned model survive? Of these, how many are assumed to be driveable, or at least easily restorable? How much is one worth in immaculate original (albeit repainted) condition? Thank you kindly, - DAIMLERMAN SI DD6 VdP, Majestic Major, 420/Sovereign, DS420x2 In 1972/1973 there were a total of 4,113 V12 5.3 liter jaguar/Daimler Series 1 saloons made. Of these, only 351 were the Daimler VanDen Plas long wheel base. The majority, if not all these cars were Right Hand Drive. Given that fact, the odds are they remained, for the most part, in the UK. Given Jaguar's history (or lack of) when it came to undercoating/rustproofing in addition to the terrible weather in the UK for motorcars, I would say the attrition rate would be fairly high. On the other hand, anyone buying a Daimler Double Six would, for the most part probably take pretty good care of it. So it is anyone's guess as to how many remain in existence. As for value, Jaguar world lists a showroom/mint condition Jaguar XJ12 Series I at about 9,000 pounds. Surprisingly, that is less than a Jaguar/Daimler 420 valued at 15,000 GBP and a 3.8 S-Type at 25,000GBP. Even the Mark X comes in better at 10,000GBP. A surprise considering the low number of vehicles built!! I would think the Daimler version to be about the same. Webserve > Good evening Gentlemen, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > SI DD6 VdP, Majestic Major, > 420/Sovereign, DS420x2 Thank you for the reply - is a 3.8S typically worth any less than a 3.4S MOD? X versus 420G? > In 1972/1973 there were a total of 4,113 V12 5.3 liter jaguar/Daimler Series > 1 saloons made. Of these, only 351 were the Daimler VanDen Plas long wheel [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Webserve Please don't mis-understand -- I am NOT an authority on Jag prices. I just looked up the prices from other sources. Typically, a 3.8 S is worth more than a 3.4 S. The 3.8 engine for some reason is the preferred motor. Personally, I like the 4.2 even better. Most of these saloons are typically worth 10% more with MOD than with an automatic. In terms of the Mark X and the 420G -- they are pretty much the same car. Again, I do like the 420G with the 4.2 liter engine and triple SUs, but in terms of resale, they are pretty much the same. Webserve > Thank you for the reply - is a 3.8S typically worth any less than a 3.4S > MOD? X versus 420G? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > Webserve We prefer to call the UK weather variable rather than terrible. > Please don't mis-understand -- I am NOT an authority on Jag prices. I > just [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >> > >> > Webserve > In 1972/1973 there were a total of 4,113 V12 5.3 liter jaguar/Daimler Series > 1 saloons made. Of these, only 351 were the Daimler VanDen Plas long wheel [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >>SI DD6 VdP, Majestic Major, >>420/Sovereign, DS420x2 Interesting price on the 420g here in the pacific I have one (1968) undergoing a resto .. paint and interior to go . Keep in mind that those were UK prices and for PRISTINE examples of the motor car. Your saloon, like mine is only worth what you can get for it. While Jaguar World lists the pristine 420 at 15,000GBP ($28,500USD), I doubt I could muster $5,000USD for my re-built daily driver. I actually don't care all that much as I would never sell it anyway. It is my feeling that those prices are nearly twice the actual value!! NADA lists as Pristine 1967 420 with an Automatic transmission at around $16,500USD and I even think that may be high. There value for a pristine 1968 420G in pristine shape and an automatic transmission is about $19,500USD. Take it for what it is worth!! Webserve > Interesting price on the 420g > here in the pacific I have one (1968) undergoing a resto .. > paint and interior to go . > Keep in mind that those were UK prices and for PRISTINE examples of the > motor car. Your saloon, like mine is only worth what you can get for it. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> here in the pacific I have one (1968) undergoing a resto .. >> paint and interior to go . considering what it's costing sounds about right.. nice new white duco and dark red leather in wire spokes.. nice recromed most every thing and a couple of hundred hours in the little things and every bit of wood hand rubbed and refinished are you in melbourne? > >>Interesting price on the 420g > >> here in the pacific I have one (1968) undergoing a resto .. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > nice recromed most every thing and a couple of hundred hours in the > little things and every bit of wood hand rubbed and refinished I am from the eastern US and I believe that atec is from the western US. My Grandfather came from Prahram if that is any help!! Webserve > are you in melbourne? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > nice recromed most every thing and a couple of hundred hours in the > > little things and every bit of wood hand rubbed and refinished > are you in melbourne? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> nice recromed most every thing and a couple of hundred hours in the >>little things and every bit of wood hand rubbed and refinished Brisbane Unfortunately, these cars, especially the 420 and 420G series are not worth very much -- comparatively. They are regarded as the black sheep of the saloon line although they are finally starting to come into their own. By the time you are done sinking all that money into it, you will be lucky if you can pull 1/2 of what you spent back out. You must to the restoration because you love the car. To do it as an investment is a losing proposition!! When I re-built my 420 I refused to find myself in the future placing a "will take 1/2 what I have into it" ad in order to sell the car. Webserve > > Keep in mind that those were UK prices and for PRISTINE examples of the > > motor car. Your saloon, like mine is only worth what you can get for it. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > nice recromed most every thing and a couple of hundred hours in the > little things and every bit of wood hand rubbed and refinished If you gentlemen are at all familiar with the Daimler line... and the Daimler and Lanchester Owners Club[DLOC], there is a absolutely gorgeous Daimler 420 Sovereign on the cover of the DLOC's April Magazine. I would be please to scan and post the cover if you are incredibly interested.. cheers, Doug Schulek-Miller > Unfortunately, these cars, especially the 420 and 420G series are not worth > very much -- comparatively. They are regarded as the black sheep of the [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >> nice recromed most every thing and a couple of hundred hours in the >>little things and every bit of wood hand rubbed and refinished Hi All, S1 Jags/Daims have been enjoying a slight upswing in values recently and especially the VdP's. I am jealous because I have a S2 66 VdP (see website) and they are static. I know the S1 is a nice car, but I prefer the S2's front-end and the better brakes/steering/aircon makes a lot of difference in the driving experience. I have only seen about 2 or 3 S1 66VdP's. There were around 1,700 S2 66 VdP's built and I only know of 11 in the UK, 2 in AUS, 2 in EUR, and 1 in Japan. One thing to remember is that Vanden Plas were hand-finished and body/paint would be better protected. Series 2 Jags were built in the Leyland era, and were renowned for badly fitting panels etc. from the factory but Vanden Plas coachbuilders would have rejected or rectified any such faults. In any case, I reckon any surviving Jags/Daims have had all these problems sorted by now and should not be spurned for that reason. I'm just hoping the S2's will soon be appreciated for what they are - better to drive than the series 1 and a purer design than the square-roof series 3. ...............ok, shoot me down!! :)  SignatureRegards, Paul. http://www.pclarkson.plus.com > In 1972/1973 there were a total of 4,113 V12 5.3 liter jaguar/Daimler > Series [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > As for value, Jaguar world lists a showroom/mint condition Jaguar XJ12 > Series I at about 9,000 pounds. Au contraire... I had a racing modified V-12 series 3 when I was living in the UK - it would pass everything but a petrol station. The seats were divine. I initially thought they were naff because they had cloth in between leather bolsters, but I could do hairpins on English country roads at 80 MPH and my bottom wouldn't move - amazing! The only problem and the reason I got rid of it... okay, two reasons. The first is that I was commuting for an hour each way, petrol was costing about £35 per day [translates into $77 CDN]. the second is that I was getting the typical Jag rust for series 3: back of the tail, just where the boot lid connects and in the headlamp curves/sockets. I had been spending thousands of pounds at Jag dealers getting it back to the original spec and just gave up. There are times when I feel as though this is comparable to giving up on my '67 Mustang when the transmission went. I think I probably get an award for give-aways and short-sightedness. But the series 3 is still, to my mind, the best Jag ever produced... including the earlier sport models... Okay, rescinding that statement... there is the series of Jags immediately post-war... I'd easily trade my ex-wife for one of those, but so would any other guy that knew her well. cheers, Doug Schulek-Miller > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > 1 and a purer design than the square-roof series 3. ...............ok, > shoot me down!! :) Doug, I didn't say the S2 was a better driver than the S3 because the S3 has the same brakes (some even have ABS) and the steering is geared slightly better (although some prefer the slightly lower geared S2 - but I HATE the VERY low geared S1). If you had a "racing modified V12" I presume it had a flat head engine installed as they are the only engine suitable for racing modifications. If so, you can expect to have much higher consumption than the usual carb or FI engine and much, much higher than the HE S3. Mine is a flat head and carb'd, but I have made some ignition mods and get around 20 -22mpg at 70-75ish . Well conditioned and supple leather can hold you as much as cloth, but it's rare to find such leather in an old car. I can understand you parting with it when commuting like that with such a fuel guzzling V12. Perhaps leaving the engine standard and installing a manual box would have been wiser. Probably better performance with economy. Best thing to do with any V12. Front wings rotting over the lights is common on all the series, but the S3 also has bad rusting around the windscreen and rear window which is expensive to repair. The S1 and S2 don't have that problem at all. My cars rust problems are well-documented on my website. The S3 should be a better car... natural progression, but the difference isn't as great as it is between the S1/S2. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em all, but I prefer Sir William Lyons original roofline to the Guigaro version. However, are we talking about the same cars? S1/2/3 XJ's never had any "Sport" models, or do you mean the S2 2 door XJ Coupe? Post-war were good looking cars, but not really up to modern traffic without upgrades. > Au contraire... I had a racing modified V-12 series 3 when I was living in > the UK - it would pass everything but a petrol station. The seats were [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > cheers, > Doug Schulek-Miller Ooops, sorry mentioned my website in my last post but forgot to put my signature in. Wellll... it is 4:00am here! SignatureRegards, Paul. http://www.pclarkson.plus.com > Doug, I have a very soft spot for the SII Daimlers, but the Jaguar SII holds limited appeal. Really, collectibility aside, the SIII Jaguar Sovereign or Vanden Plas is the one to have. Those bonded screens make a huge difference to rigidity, nicer interior, etc. Me, I am happy with the SI. IMHO Better looking (interior and more imposing front), the V12s have vented discs anyway, and steering racks can be substituted, though I do love the ultra light steering of a SI. Even here in Australia, a SIII without a touch of screen rust is a rarity. > Doug, > I didn't say the S2 was a better driver than the S3 because the S3 has the > same brakes (some even have ABS) and the steering is geared slightly better > (although some prefer the slightly lower geared S2 - but I HATE the VERY low > geared S1). I confess to liking the S1 dash with all the switches and stuff. I think you'll find it's not the rack ratio, but the pump and pulley gearing that is different and the front calipers have an extra pot. The series 2 has a collapsible steering column, but not sure about the S1. Also, the S2 has door beams, again, not sure about the S1. S2 Air cond. is definitely better - useful in AUS!! Aside from modern air-bags, as a 30year old car, they were pretty advanced for safety features. Can't say I've noticed any problem whatsoever with rigidty on S2, except that all of the series need those cross braces in the engine compartment and if you're considering stiffer shocks, then some extra welding around the front shock mountings is advisable. Another reason I like the older cars is their (relative) simplicity - carbs and distributors that can be rebuilt and adjusted cheaply rather than complexity of "black boxes" that can't be inspected for wear or tweaked with a screwdriver... exhaust cats... EFI and on board computers, etc. SignatureRegards, Paul. http://www.pclarkson.plus.com >I have a very soft spot for the SII Daimlers, but the Jaguar SII holds > limited appeal. Really, collectibility aside, the SIII Jaguar Sovereign or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > low >> geared S1). Weighting is different, sure, but either way, its all interchangeable. Really hadn't noted a difference in steering ratio. As for rigidity, its not that a SI or II is loose, its that a SIII is noticeably stiffer. Agree re: complexity - but then, what am I doing with a V12? :-) > I confess to liking the S1 dash with all the switches and stuff. I think > you'll find it's not the rack ratio, but the pump and pulley gearing that is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > complexity of "black boxes" that can't be inspected for wear or tweaked with > a screwdriver... exhaust cats... EFI and on board computers, etc. Nooooo, not the coupé - the regular, class, best-looking saloon car in the world. Okay, maybe a little hyperbole because I would give almost any of my teen-agers for a Mark 8... but I also drool uncontrollably over the Bentley Continentals of the 50's. Don't see too many over here, but saw the occasional one in the UK. cheers, Doug > Doug, > I didn't say the S2 was a better driver than the S3 because the S3 has the [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >>cheers, >>Doug Schulek-Miller |
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