 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Jaguar Cars / December 2005Second differential goes bad, shop does shoddy job
AGH! I am so fustrated! I had an independant jaguar shop replace and rebuild my differential on my 91 XJ40. 5000 miles and $2400 later it goes bad. Had him look at it says all he could do was knock off 3 hours of labor.., a whopping $240! Then had the audacity to request $20 for the Castrol Oil he put back in my differential which i didnt ask to be drained in the first place after he already diagnosed it was a bad bearing! I refused to pay for the $20 worth of oil, i've spent well over $6000 at his shop and he cant give me a measily 1.5-2 quarts of fluid!? Then the decent english man that he is, mummbled "Mr. Fancy Pants" under his breath. You have got to be kidding me!! I thought this was one shop i could trust. Does anyone know of any good places to pickup a rebuilt differential so i dont have to go through this ridiculous mess again? Thanks! Have you tried Coventry West in Atlanta? > AGH! I am so fustrated! I had an independant jaguar shop replace and > rebuild my differential on my 91 XJ40. 5000 miles and $2400 later it goes [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks! BTW, the shop was Mr. Jags run by Steve in Redmond, WA. So here's to help you make an informed decision. > AGH! I am so fustrated! I had an independant jaguar shop replace and > rebuild my differential on my 91 XJ40. 5000 miles and $2400 later it goes [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks! So what exactly are the symptoms of your rear-end failure? B.D. Hmm.. Someone that does not want to discuss the issue but pastes names is to be treated with suspicion. DieInterim Actually Blake , there was a discussion previously and prior to his acknowledgement of the said suspicious shop.. dennis > Hmm.. > > Someone that does not want to discuss the issue but pastes names is to > be treated with suspicion. > > DieInterim Where? On this forum? ?? i already posted the issue. I take it you didnt take the time to read the original post? > Hmm.. > > Someone that does not want to discuss the issue but pastes names is to > be treated with suspicion. > > DieInterim Oh I read that, but until you posted below there was no mention of a bearing failure. Besides I dont think you read my post as it was a question regarding the symptoms. Its better to interact than to react. You and Dennis have a nice day. DieInterim Blake, Before you come to conclusions and start making accusations against me, read and understand the posts first. I did read your post and actually i did mention there was a bearing failure in my original message, which is why i didnt respond to your question. > Oh I read that, but until you posted below there was no mention of a > bearing failure. Besides I dont think you read my post as it was a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > DieInterim Listen, You have to understand how many people post false defaming things about others on the internet. Let me clarify that I am not jumping to any conclusion as I am only investigating. I am not here to lambaste you, but in fact help you. Again.. I look at your original post and there is no mention of a bearing failure. That said...can we begin again? What you paid is way too much and sadly, this is what us poor Jaguar owners often pay..too much. What I can say to you is if the shop dies not honor its work and it has been under 90 days, paid with a VISA, then call VISA and contest the bill. Many banks offer double warranties and protect against potential vermin. Otherwise its off to court. I know of several complete used rear ends if you still need one. Blake Unfortunatly its been almost 3 years since it was done. It started going out about 5000 miles. Ive put on almost another 5000 miles. Yep i know, time works against me here. So much has been going on that this hadnt been a priority. I would love to take him to court, his policy is 30-days parts 90-days labor. So just by that alone do i even have a defense? His only offer was to take two hours off labor. He is making a healthy profit on parts as well and yes i am still looking for a differential, either new or rebuilt. I dont think i would trust a used one, they dont last that long and there was problems with early XJ40 differentials. Thanks! > Listen, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Blake No time has passed by the opportunity by now, so forgive and forget. The XJ40 did have some problems early on, but that was due to a combination of poor assembly and bearing vendors. There are many early examples with 200k+ miles using the original differential, albeit Changing out the output bearings. And it is these output bearings that are the cause of so many misdiagnosed rear end failures; many mechanics new of this and raped poor Jag owners dry. So what I am saying here is - if you are hearing rear end noise and the pitch of the noise does not change when you take your foot of the throttle then you most likely have an output bearing growling. It can be changed without removing the diff. sub-assembly from the car. Pottsy was going to do this task...I wonder how it turned out for him? Anyway these output bearings are common and can be found at a bearing supplier. I am not afraid of used parts especially if you automatically replace the lube and output bearings before setting it into your car. I do have a source in teaxas that sells rebuilt units too. If I recall you are in the Seattle area; I am in the Portland area. Cheers, Blake The outer bearings you say? When the fluid was released, there were metal particles attached to the magnetic plug. I assumed this would be caused only by the inner bearings, but i dont know the schematics of the differential. Can this be caused by outter bearings as well? It really gripes me that "Mr Jags" rebuilt the thing, not only are the bearings being chewed up but the seal is bad as well. This is causing the differential to squirt fluid onto the mufflers producing a not so pleasant smell. Mr. Jags isnt a new mechanic.., hes an older english man that says hes been working on jaguars since his early teens. The pitch of the noise is constant. I remember the first time it went bad the pitches would differ depending on the speed of the vehicle. But this time it seems pretty constant > No time has passed by the opportunity by now, so forgive and forget. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Cheers, > Blake Wait a minute! Something wrong here. The earlier poster was asking about change in noise whether the throttle was pressed or not - ie (presumably) whether the drive train was under load or not. This would give some indication if it was the gears in the diff. But what *you* are saying is the noise is independent of the *speed*, which is an entirely different thing, surely. If I'm not mistaken no change in noise whatever the speed rules out the gears. Do the rest of you agree? Ouch. Metal filings - everybody's fear when they take out any drain plug. Years ago, when I took out the gearbox drain to my lovely wife's Triumph Herald, out trickled (audibly)... needle bearings! Memories, memories. My first car (Austin 7 Ruby had an engine about as small as the air compressor on the Jag. And the oil pressure was 5 psi max). Alazn > The outer bearings you say? When the fluid was released, there were metal > particles attached to the magnetic plug. I assumed this would be caused [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Cheers, > > Blake So much confusion. Mr. Jags diagnosed that the noise was the differential. When the fluid drained particles came out. So this means the inner bearings are being chewed. Unless there is something i am missing, then this is the problem And from what i understand the only way to fix this is to one, rebuild it or two get a new one. Either way it is going to be costly and/or time consuming. Hopefully this clears everything up. My original post was a gripe about my newly rebuilt diff going out after 5000 miles and asking if anyone knows where i can find some good replacements. > Wait a minute! Something wrong here. The earlier poster was asking about > change in noise whether the throttle was pressed or not - ie (presumably) [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >> > Cheers, >> > Blake Remanufactured rear end. +$50 for limitedslip. http://www.motorcarsltd.com/item.wws?sku=IN102671&mfr=BRITISH&cookieID=1OP000165 1OP0018Q9&drillid=12&clientid=motorcars&clientid=motorcars Often times, I disagree with Blake, but this time he is correct. I have an XJ40 and at 154,000 miles (3 years ago) I had to replace the rear differential bearings. Total cost $160 and 3 hours labor. This included bearings, crush collars, oil seals and O-Rings. I now have 210,000 miles on the car and it is still going strong. The design of the output bearings on these differentials was appalling. They went from a double bearing using taper bearings in the XJ6 Series to a HUGE single bearing using ball bearings in the XJ40. It was not their best design since the cage holding the ball bearings usually could not withstand the side to side movement. It is rare that a pinion gear or other major component in the differential will go out as compared to the output bearings. Output bearings will usually start to show major wear after 50,000 miles. Like Blake, I would not be afraid of a used differential. In fact, in your particular case, I would probably welcome a swap. There is NO way of knowing what other damage was done to your differential by the mechanic. I say it over and over and over again that a Jaguar owner's best defense and best tool when it comes to these cars is to be educated about them. A $15 Haynes manual will same you thousands of dollars in the long run because you know what is going on with the car -- even if you do not do the work yourself. Getting on this mail server is a step in the right direction. Join other lists like jag-lovers.org and read the manual of repairs written buy XJ40 owners like yourself who have been through the same experiences. Continually I am being told that my 1988 XJ40 was the worst Jaguar ever built. Yet I have 210,000 miles on the original engine and drive train and I have no warning lights on the dash. The car gets 27 MPG on the highway and still performs like a champ and rides like the luxury car it is. As long as I have watched the little niggles that are common to this car it has never let me down. That is more than I can say for my 1997 Dodge truck which has cost a small fortune in repairs and doesn't even have 100,000 miles on the clock yet!!! Stick with the car, educate yourself and you will have years of great performance going forward from your XJ40. Webserve > Unfortunatly its been almost 3 years since it was done. It started going > out about 5000 miles. Ive put on almost another 5000 miles. Yep i know, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > Blake "Often times, I disagree with Blake, but this time he is correct." Dont hold back here Clark...let it rip. <sheesh> > Often times, I disagree with Blake, but this time he is correct. > I have an XJ40 and at 154,000 miles (3 years ago) I had to replace the rear [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Webserve Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like to know the secrets to your success... I've been chasing 2 problems for years on my 89 XJ40 that are driving me nuts, and haven't found answers by posting here or elsewhere. 1. Bulb failure message: comes on sometimes with stop lights and frequently if turn signal is also on (accompanied by double-speed turn signal noise, and sometimes the left turn signal bulbs cease blinking when this happens, sometimes they continue blinking normally); it can occur spontaneoulsly (but seldom) like when just cruising on the freeway with no lights turned on. Have replaced all rear bulbs, cleaned sockets, swapped rear bulb failure modules, resoldered all joints in both rear bulb failure modules, and replaced one module. Nothing helped. 2. Door locks: I never had a remote so we are talking manual by key or the plunger. They used to work fine. Now unlocking either front door unlocks the rear doors. Locking either front door locks the rear doors. Neither front door lock affects the other front door lock. The dash lock button does nothing except elicit a faint clicking noise. All doors lock when the ignition is turned on and unlock when the ignition key is turned off (almost always... but the passenger door doesn't always unlock). Result is I have to walk around the car to lock the passenger door nearly every time I park (or stretch way across and push the plunger), or to let a passenger into the car. Most components are expensive and difficult to replace, and I have no idea how to determine which are the bad part(s). I've had both front doors apart several times, to no avail (nothing obvious found amiss). I've replaced both front door handles (for mechanical failure reasons, and replacement did not affect this problem). The fact that the dash button doesn't unlock any of the doors is probably a big clue (ie, does it control one door's locking motor which in turn affects the others? is it a problem in the central door lock control box under the dash?) but I can't follow Jag's electrical diagrams well enough to figure it out and don't want to tear both front doors apart and replace 2 motors at $160 or so each just to see if they are the problem.. Wow, you have done nearly every thing on the BFM unit. Here is what I suggest. Take the Left BFM out again and pull the top circuit board off the lower board. Steal one of your wife's nail file emery boards and sand all the prong contacts as well as the plug sockets so they all have decent electrical contact. This is a LIGHT procedure -- do not over do it. Also GENTLY spread the prongs out a bit to make sure there is contact. With the intermittent problem you describe, I believe it is a contact problem for the circuit obviously works -- just not all the time. As for the door locks. This is an obvious electrical problem as well. Fortunately, one I have not had to deal with. You problem is not with the actuator for if you turn the correct key -- it locks or unlocks. So all the actuators are working. It seems there is an electrical disconnect between the front door locks and the button. Does the button close the sun roof. If you get out of the car and hold the key in the lock position in the driver's door do all the doors lock, the windows go up and the sun roof close? Doing that should determine where the problem lies. It is odd that your doors all lock and unlock with the ignition -- mine don't. BTW, didn't you move to Ca from Va and sell your XJS or is that a different WayneC?? Webserve > > Often times, I disagree with Blake, but this time he is correct. > > I have an XJ40 and at 154,000 miles (3 years ago) I had to replace the rear [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > both front doors apart and replace 2 motors at $160 or so each just to > see if they are the problem.. > Wow, you have done nearly every thing on the BFM unit. Here is what I > suggest. Take the Left BFM out again and pull the top circuit board off the > lower board. Steal one of your wife's nail file emery boards and sand all > the prong contacts as well as the plug sockets so they all have decent > electrical contact. I've done the sockets. > This is a LIGHT procedure -- do not over do it. Also > GENTLY spread the prongs out a bit to make sure there is contact. With the > intermittent problem you describe, I believe it is a contact problem for the > circuit obviously works -- just not all the time. I'm not sure which "prongs" you are referring to... in the BFM? I have a low confidence level since I've already swapped AND replaced that BFM (with another used one). And in fact I bought a second used BFM that I haven't tried yet. > As for the door locks. This is an obvious electrical problem as well. Yeah, but no one knows how to troubleshoot the system. > Fortunately, one I have not had to deal with. You problem is not with the > actuator Yep, I knew that (assuming you mean the mechanical plunger or the switch at the key tumbler... which do you mean? > for if you turn the correct key -- it locks or unlocks. So all the > actuators are working. Depends on what you mean by an actuator.. if you mean the switch, yes. But, neither front door ever locks without using the key or the manual plunger on that same door... turning the key does in fact mechanically move the lock plunger on that door. It does not electrically actuate the other front door lock. That goes for both front doors, and for unlocking. > It seems there is an electrical disconnect between > the front door locks and the button. Does the button close the sun roof. I'll have to try that... I believe it used to, though I rarely used that button; I do recall that it used to lock the doors. The sunroof is another (newer) issue, as I need a new headliner... if I open the sunroof it hits the hanging material, thus I stopped opening it. I'll fix the roofliner as soon as I decide if I'm going to keep this car (I've owned it 5 or 6 years, always had the BF messages and mostly ignored it, the lock problems are maybe a year old now; my patience is wearing thin with those problems) > If you get out of the car and hold the key in the lock position in the > driver's door do all the doors lock, the windows go up and the sun roof > close? Doing that should determine where the problem lies. All BUT the passenger front door lock. In fact, after the last time I fooled around with the driver door handle, it works TOO good, making it just about impossible to leave my windows cracked about half an inch, which I like to do (gets hot around here). By the time I can turn the key quickly, the mindows are shut. > It is odd that your doors all lock and unlock with the ignition -- mine > don't. I'll have to doublecheck that, I thought they did, perhaps not. I know the passenger door often seems to get unlocked (when I haven't any passengers) because I keep having to walk around or reach over to lock it (the unlocking may happen when the driver door is opened). I think the trunk lid gets locked, too, when the ignition is turned on, but I won't swear to that. I know all the locks are tied together electrically, I just don't know the routing... I suspect the dash rocker switch button causes the central lock controller under the dash to pass current to ONE of the lock motors, either passenger or driver door, and the movement of that lock then causes the other 3 to lock. The routing to the other 3 may be through the central lock controller, or may not. So I'm thinking I might have a problem in the central controller or in one or both of the front door lock motors (on the locking side of the circuit), or a bad wire contact somewhere. The question is which component is bad (since all are expensive to replace), or where is the fault in the wiring. > BTW, didn't you move to Ca from Va and sell your XJS or is that a different > WayneC?? Must be a different WayneC, I still have an XJS and I never lived in VA. Bought both the XJ40 and XJS after moving here. The XJS is in slightly better shape with about 85k miles vs 135k, but it, too, is starting to feel it's age (1984). Since your rear end is driving you into bankruptcy, try some creative thinking and use the lock problem to your advantage- leave it unlocked and hope someone steals the thing and your insurance company pays you enough to buy another car. > I know all the locks are tied together electrically, I just don't know > the routing... I suspect the dash rocker switch button causes the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > contact somewhere. The question is which component is bad (since all are > expensive to replace), or where is the fault in the wiring. Yes lets lower our standards.....whats worse, getting ripped off or desiring to be a criminal? Hmmmm- that' s a good question- which is worse? As far as lowering standards, aren't we talking about an old used car here? > Yes lets lower our standards.....whats worse, getting ripped off or > desiring to be a criminal? > Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like to know the secrets to > your success... I've been chasing 2 problems for years on my 89 XJ40 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > swapped rear bulb failure modules, resoldered all joints in both rear > bulb failure modules, and replaced one module. Nothing helped. Hmmm... I'm also having frustrating BFM problems. I have a continuous BF message flashing in my XJ40 1988 display. It seems that only the *front* modules have the add on board that plugs into the other. The rear ones are much simpler. I too have tried to clear this BF "fault" without success but I haven't yet tried the nailfile trick, I must say. I also have a *new* problem which has started since fitting a replacement secondhand (right front) module to try and fix the BF message (which it didn't) Now if I blink right (or switch on hazards) the blinking *sound* is more rapid intermittently but the actual blink is OK. I'm concerned that this and the BF message may mask a *real* problem when I'm on the road, so would like to cure this. I also have a dummy "low windscreen washer" message I'd dearly like to clear, so that finally my fault display will be clear until I get a *real* fault. Of course, I'd like to do this all yesterday so I'm ready for safe Cristmas trip (sigh). I'm going to start a new thread for these lock and BFM problems. > I'm going to start a new thread for these lock and BFM problems. Good idea. Two new threads. As previously posted, the rear differential wines. "Mr. Jags" rebuilt the original one and after 5000 miles a bearing has come apart. This cost me 1200 in labor for the rebuild and 800 in parts. > So what exactly are the symptoms of your rear-end failure? > > B.D. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.