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Car Forum / Jaguar Cars / June 2006

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XJ6 S2 non starter

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De.signer - 10 Jun 2006 12:21 GMT
I have a series 2 4.2 XJ6 that has been standing for 3 months. Water
has got into the tank, but before I realised this I tried starting it.
I now have rid the petrol of the water and re-used the fuel. However,
no fuel at all is getting to the plugs. Fuel is getting to the carbs,
and there is a strong spark at the plugs and when fuel is poured
directly into the cylinders it does run for a short while.
Can anyone tell be where the problem lies?
Jo Bangles - 10 Jun 2006 17:40 GMT
Have you blown out the carburetors?  If water is in there, it will
prevent the gasoline from getting through and vaporizing.
Jo

> I have a series 2 4.2 XJ6 that has been standing for 3 months. Water
> has got into the tank, but before I realised this I tried starting it.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> directly into the cylinders it does run for a short while.
> Can anyone tell be where the problem lies?
De.signer - 10 Jun 2006 18:22 GMT
> Have you blown out the carburetors?  If water is in there, it will
> prevent the gasoline from getting through and vaporizing.
> Jo

Hi Jo

Hi have just connected a compressor to the fuel pipe into the carbs
(with the air filter off)- it started straight away for 3-4 seconds and
then died again.   I

> > I have a series 2 4.2 XJ6 that has been standing for 3 months. Water
> > has got into the tank, but before I realised this I tried starting it.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > directly into the cylinders it does run for a short while.
> > Can anyone tell be where the problem lies?
Jo Bangles - 10 Jun 2006 20:12 GMT
Hmm.  I am not sure what this is, but what it *could* be is maybe still
some water in the fuel (it's usually recommended that you not reuse fuel
that has been contaminated with water), or it could be that the
carburetor is gummed up, although I don't think sitting around for 3
months should cause that problem.  I am not sure what to recommend here,
but it sounds like the carburetors are still clogged.  There might be
some sprays that would help, but I have never used any, so I can't
suggest anything.  Sorry.
Jo

>>Have you blown out the carburetors?  If water is in there, it will
>>prevent the gasoline from getting through and vaporizing.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>>directly into the cylinders it does run for a short while.
>>>Can anyone tell be where the problem lies?
WayneC - 11 Jun 2006 07:31 GMT
> Hmm.  I am not sure what this is, but what it *could* be is maybe still
> some water in the fuel (it's usually recommended that you not reuse fuel
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> suggest anything.  Sorry.
> Jo

The following thoughts are generic to carbureted automobiles, not
specifically to
the series 2 Jaguar.

I'm a dummy on series 2, but doesn't it have 2 fuel tanks? Or is that
just series 3?
Is the fuel pump mechanical or electrical? Is the carburetor choke working?

How do you know fuel is not getting to the plugs... are you looking down
the
carburetor throat when the starter is running? If you pull back quickly
on the throttle
linkage, (ie, jazz the throttle) even without the starter running, can
you see that the
accelerator pump is NOT shooting fuel into the carb throat? It should be.

It may still be possible that there's water in the system... I don't
think water is miscible
in gasoline (and vice versa)... since water is heavier than gasoline,
perhaps it
displaced the gasoline in the fuel pump and feed line from the tank
while it sat
so long. You didn't say HOW you rid the system of the water when you
discovered it.
If you didn't drain the system at it's lowest point(s) there may still
be water present.
Or, you could disconnect the fuel line at the carb and use the fuel pump
to pump
a few quarts of "fuel" into a container to clear water out of the line.

And, if you disconnect the fuel line at the carburetor and run the fuel
pump, you can
collect some fuel from the line into a glass container... then pour some
clean gasoline
from another source into the glass container and let it sit a few hours,
and perhaps you'll
be able to see whether the gas separates from the fuel (I haven't done
this, but it may
be possible to see the separate layers when they stratify... you could
test the theory by
trying this first with some tap water and some uncontaminated gasoline
from another car)

If you haven't already, you may need to block the line at the tank,
disconnect it from the
carb, and blow the line out with air, wouldn't hurt to remove the carb
to tip & drain it, also.
I'm not familiar with your carb, but usually there is an air vent tube
(about 1/4 inch diameter)
sticking up from the carb... you can pour gasoline down that tube to
pre-fill the float chambers
after you re-install the carb, before you start the car, which may give
enough running time
to remove the air from the tank-to-carb line and allow normal fuel flow.
 BTW, if you
aren't seeing fuel being squirted into the carb throat when you quickly
rotate the throttle
linkage (as I mentioned above), then try this "fuel down the vent tube"
approach and try
jazzing the throttle again to check for squirts of fuel.

Alternatively, the engine can tolerate water along with fuel once it is
started, as long as
it gets more fuel than water, so perhaps another approach might be to
remove the air cleaner,
start the car using engine starting fluid, and continue to spray
starting fluid down the air horn
to keep the engine running for at least a few minutes... eg, as long as
it takes to use
up any fluid in the tank-to-carb line.

Beyond that I suppose it's possible the water corroded something inside
the carburetor
that's causing, for instance, the float needles to stick, but that seems
unlikely, especially
since the water wouldn't have made it to the carb until you started it
after the 3 months,
so water hasn't been in the carb very long.

Good luck.
De.signer - 11 Jun 2006 10:23 GMT
> > Hmm.  I am not sure what this is, but what it *could* be is maybe still
> > some water in the fuel (it's usually recommended that you not reuse fuel
[quoted text clipped - 86 lines]
>
> Good luck.

Hi WayneC, and thanks for your reply.
My Daimler has two fuel tanks. Fuel is pumping to the carbs - I checked
this by disconnecting the pipe at the carb, but I will check the carb
throats to be sure. I assume that no fuel is reaching the cylinders as
all the plugs are dry - no evidence of fuel. I separated the water and
fuel by pumping the petrol into a clear bottle - and pouring the
separtated fuel  into a clean container. But I will by some fresh fuel
to mix.
Something I have forgotten to mention before, when it does run, there
is a massive backfire from the front carb - both when petrol and 'spray
starts' have been used.
Its gummed up somewhere, I think Im going to have to take the carbs off
to find where this has happend.

thanks again
WayneC - 11 Jun 2006 22:40 GMT
>>> Hmm.  I am not sure what this is, but what it *could* be is maybe still
>>> some water in the fuel (it's usually recommended that you not reuse fuel
[quoted text clipped - 102 lines]
>
> thanks again

More random thoughts...

If there are two carbs, and a quick pull on the throttle does not elicit a
strong squirt of fuel in the throat of either, I can't figure out what
would
cause that, except....

1. stuck float needles (or saturated floats), either stopping the flow
of fuel
or flooding the engine with fuel (but you say plugs show no sign of
flooding)
2. dry carb; some carburetors have a small filter in the fuel
inlet housing, between the fuel line and the carburetor itself, so check
to see if yours do and replace them before you pull the carbs, as
possibly they are blocked. The fact that you used a compressor
on the fuel line and got the car to start and run briefly suggests this
is a possibility.

I think it is difficult for backfires to be caused by a carburetor fuel
problem,
but it's possible; generally carb backfires are a sign of bad timing
(cylinder firing with intake valves open) due to an incorrect timing
adjustment or
mechanical failure in the distributor (sheared drive gear, stuck vacuum
advance),
or crossed/incorrect plug wire installation, or even bad/stuck valves.
Did you mess with the plug wires during the time the car was not in use?
Are there guides keeping the wires from touching each other?
Don Young - 12 Jun 2006 03:37 GMT
>>>> Hmm.  I am not sure what this is, but what it *could* be is maybe still
>>>> some water in the fuel (it's usually recommended that you not reuse
[quoted text clipped - 135 lines]
> Did you mess with the plug wires during the time the car was not in use?
> Are there guides keeping the wires from touching each other?

Backfire might be caused by intake valve stuck open. It might be well to
verify compression on all cylinders before proceeding.

Don Young
De.signer - 11 Jun 2006 10:07 GMT
> Hmm.  I am not sure what this is, but what it *could* be is maybe still
> some water in the fuel (it's usually recommended that you not reuse fuel
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> suggest anything.  Sorry.
> Jo

Thanks for your help Jo.

Tony

> >>Have you blown out the carburetors?  If water is in there, it will
> >>prevent the gasoline from getting through and vaporizing.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> >>>directly into the cylinders it does run for a short while.
> >>>Can anyone tell be where the problem lies?
Mr Smooth - 12 Jun 2006 12:37 GMT
Hi, just my two peniths worth, but does the series 2 run on  SU carbs,
similar (but bigger) than those used on minis and most British cars of
that era. If so, they DO NOT have an accelerator pump, as such opening
the throttle will not squirt fuel into the inlet manifold.

Please correct me if im wrong.

P.S. If they are SU type carbs, with seperate float bowls on the side.
Its worth taking the top off (3 flat bladed screws) checking the float
neddle, look for sediment in the bottom of the chamber and the small
(spring wound) tube that connects the bowl with the base of the jet.

hope this helps

Mr Smooth.
De.signer - 13 Jun 2006 15:39 GMT
> Hi, just my two peniths worth, but does the series 2 run on  SU carbs,
> similar (but bigger) than those used on minis and most British cars of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Mr Smooth.

Thanks, I could not see an accelerator pump. I have taken the carbs and
AED (Automatic Enrichment Device) to find that water had corroded the
aluminium. They are SUs with the floats attached to the bottom. I do
think that the floats are causing the problem as when I connected my
compressor to the fuel line it did run for the duration of the fuel in
the line, so the high pressure fuel was being pushed around the floats.
I will re-set the main floats and cross my fingers.
 
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