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Car Forum / Jaguar Cars / February 2004Xtype versus mercedes C comparison wanted
We currently have 2000 model Mercedes C-320 Kompressor which replaced a 1994 C-280. The lease will soon be up on the current Benz and we are looking at another C Class Benz and a Jaguar 3.0 Xtype. I would appreciate any comparisons from people who have been through the same purchase decision. Our location is in the USA Midwest and both cars would be 2004 models equipped with a 3 liter V6, automatic transmission and all wheel drive. Mike Dear Mike, I will get some seriuos grief for this.... It is my personal opinion that the X type is your typical American @$@#box dressed in fine clothes. The clothes are indeed very nice, but still, what lurks underneath is fetzen. The v6 is a very sweet running engine that will bring smiles, however, the transmission is programmed to shift slow. That is fine around town, but when you put your foot into it the trans slips between shifts and ultimately will fail (Typical American FORD). Also tyres will constantly be an issue with four wheel drive due to center differential isssues <Many people complain of a slight growling sound due to the center diff>. The small Merc are nothing special, but are nice cars. Honestly, have you driven the new Subaru's? Very fast and capable with sensibility. Otherwise spend the extra money and get the real deal for either Jag or Merc. <Larger models>. Satan Himself, Blake (Oh and those of you who say the Mondeo rides as nice as an XJ... you are full of it!!!) > Dear Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > (Oh and those of you who say the Mondeo rides as nice as an XJ... you > are full of it!!!) Hi I have a 2.5 litre X-type and I would broadly agree with you...on the transmission bit. I tried an auto 2.5 and it felt very slow and ponderous and it nearly put me off buying one. I did then get the chance to try a manual and that's what I bought. Actually the auto box seems to be the main bug bear with a lot of people The 2.5 V6 sounds nice and goes very well (in manual form). Don't know about the tyres yet but mine have done 20,000m and still look ok for another 10-20,000m and I'm not know for being light footed :-) So we'll see. Can't say that I've heard the growling, but then I got one withe premium sound upgrade and that's mostly what I hear. I've never owned a C class merc, but I tried one and I didn;t think it was a nice as my collegues C Class which is the older (bus-shaped one) the new style felt less classy and solid. By the way I had a mondeo before, very nice, reliable but not as nice to drive as the jag. Pete 2004 3.0 Xtype is great car. Nothing like prior messenger claims. Tranny works like a charm. Fit and finish way above Merc. > > Dear Mike, > > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Pete > 2004 3.0 Xtype is great car. Nothing like prior messenger claims. Tranny > works like a charm. Fit and finish way above Merc. Hey STU, Wie Geht's? Long time no see, and gosh, I can't believe what my eyes have read! I mean, you're "Mr. BUICK" and have a history of trying to persuade people away from the Jaguar Marque. Now you recommend one? I tell you the lure of Jag is powerful indeed. I know I have confronted you in the past and that your post relects that when you said "Nothing like prior messenger claims". You will never find me in Buick NG talking of its shortcomings (Actually I am quite fond of BUICK). So STU, what is it? Are you a Jag owner now or not? Regards, DieInterim I have had a Jaguar since 1994. My XJ6 was the worst dog I ever owned. I also have a 1998 Buick Regal which I have had not 1 ( exception is rear view mirror replaced) problem or part replaced since new in late 1997. It drives like a dream on cross country trips-great steering, tracking, power to pass , comfort etc. Can't rave about it enough. The Jag had to go after the 3rd evaporator blew. Sick of the poor ergonomics and engineering. Looks still the best in the industry but that's not enough. Traded up to a 2004 X Type with 3 liter. So far very nice with no problems . I hope this explains all. Thanks for your interest STU > > 2004 3.0 Xtype is great car. Nothing like prior messenger claims. Tranny > > works like a charm. Fit and finish way above Merc. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Regards, > DieInterim > Dear Mike, > > I will get some serious grief for this.... Don't flatter yourself. I'm never that serious. > It is my personal opinion that the X type is your typical American > @$@#box dressed in fine clothes. The clothes are indeed very nice, but > still, what lurks underneath is fetzen. Ah, but *you* are well known here for preferring *big* Jaguars with *big* engines and lots of chrome. You don't like the X-Type not because it's inherently bad, but simply because *you* don't like it. So let's move on: > The v6 is a very sweet running engine that will bring smiles, however, > the transmission is programmed to shift slow. That is fine around > town, but when you put your foot into it the trans slips between > shifts and ultimately will fail (Typical American FORD). *However*, the X-Type is also available with a 5-speed manual. If you want to shift for yourself, I expect you'd have to forget the Benz. In fact, not only forget the Benz, but look for the 3.0 Sport 5-speed X-Type. You won't regret it unless the car is simply too small for you (a definite possibility; but my wife and I are both 5'6"). > Also tyres > will constantly be an issue with four wheel drive due to center > differential issues Did you cook this up based on your intimate knowledge of Audi Quattros? In fact, the 17" Pirellis on the front of our X-Type went away at around 25,000 miles, but that's more because they were the Pirellis they are than that they were on an AWD chassis. They'd also seen some autocrossing from the previous owner as well as my own 'brisk' driving style. After 15 years of owning and driving Audi Quattros (including the last decade with the Audi Quattro Club as a driving instructor), I'd expect I'd be able to recognize any "center differential issues" the X-Type might have. There are none. > <Many people complain of a slight growling sound > due to the center diff>. Although I *have* read about a *rear* diff whine (and think I might have heard it once in ours), I've never heard of this one. Nonetheless, it has not, to my knowledge, ever been reported to be anything other than a distressing noise. It appears not to be of the magnitude that you will end up walking home because of it. And, Jaguar has apparently been willing to swap out offending parts until they figure out what the hell it really is. > The small Merc are nothing special, but are nice cars. > > Honestly, have you driven the new Subaru's? Very fast and capable with > sensibility. I can't disagree with this. > Otherwise spend the extra money and get the real deal for > either Jag or Merc. <Larger models>. See? What'd I tell ya? ^^^^^^^^^ > Satan Himself, -- C.R. Krieger (Devil's Advocate only by training) > > Dear Mike, > > > > I will get some serious grief for this.... > > Don't flatter yourself. I'm never that serious. I did not need to, you came to my assitance... oh and you have been very seroius before. ;-) > > It is my personal opinion that the X type is your typical American > > @$@#box dressed in fine clothes. The clothes are indeed very nice, but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > because it's inherently bad, but simply because *you* don't like it. > So let's move on: =) > > The v6 is a very sweet running engine that will bring smiles, however, > > the transmission is programmed to shift slow. That is fine around [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > X-Type. You won't regret it unless the car is simply too small for > you (a definite possibility; but my wife and I are both 5'6"). There is simply no arguement about the manual shift as being superior, however the subject *is* the transmission. > > Also tyres > > will constantly be an issue with four wheel drive due to center [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > driving instructor), I'd expect I'd be able to recognize any "center > differential issues" the X-Type might have. There are none. Not at all, no cooking, and I think the Audi's system is tops. Alas I do see my err here, and I must clarify that pertains to those "with troublesome center differentials". > > <Many people complain of a slight growling sound > > due to the center diff>. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Jaguar has apparently been willing to swap out offending parts until > they figure out what the hell it really is. Not the rear, the *center*. It is a variable slip/locking unit that when malfuntions with cause some bind between the front and rear wheels. It will affect milage, performance, and cornering. Severe cases will cause tire squeels and lurching in tight manoeuvres. And you damned right they ought fix it for free, its not like they don't know how to build better. > > The small Merc are nothing special, but are nice cars. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > See? What'd I tell ya? ^^^^^^^^^ Shocking isnt it? Actually there are some Peugeots, MR2's, OPEL Speedsters, Suzuki Swifts, Sunbeams, Triumph's, more... In absolute honesty my Peugeot 1982 504 Diesel was the best riding, most reliable, thifty, most sensible car I have ever driven. I should have never let it go. Another close second was my little Chevy Sprint 4dr. It was really a Suzuki. It had a little 3cyl engine that was willing and ran sweetly. It too amazingly had a very nice ride....but I was always fearing a Honda CRX might back over me someday. ;-) So you see, it not that I like big fast cars with chrome, I just like cars period. When they are done right they are wonderful, but when cars are being built to just appease a warranty goal and not a solid, proven design. But maybe there is far more to it than I realize, perhaps warranty work and recalling does benefit the company somehow. Anyhow, how has your car been during this Winter? Is it as good as the AUDI? > > Satan Himself, > > Don't flatter yourself. I'm never that serious. > > > I did not need to, you came to my assitance... oh and you have been > very seroius before. ;-) It's just an act ... ;^) > > *However*, the X-Type is also available with a 5-speed manual. > > > There is simply no arguement about the manual shift as being > superior, however the subject *is* the transmission. EEEP! You're right. I just noticed that in the original post. Hell, based on *that*, I probably would have told him to just buy a Jeep. Serve him right, don't you think? > Not at all, no cooking, and I think the Audi's system is tops. Alas I > do see my err here, and I must clarify that pertains to those "with > troublesome center differentials". Fair enough. > Not the rear, the *center*. It is a variable slip/locking unit that > when malfuntions with cause some bind between the front and rear > wheels. It will affect milage, performance, and cornering. Severe > cases will cause tire squeels and lurching in tight manoeuvres. And > you damned right they ought fix it for free, its not like they don't > know how to build better. Yup. Been there; done that. Old Quattros could be locked up; my Ford and Jeep can be locked up. Gets pretty skittish when they all insist on turning at the same time. Hasn't happened in the Jag. > Anyhow, how has your car been during this Winter? Is it as good as the > AUDI? Remarkably, even better, for two or three reasons. The Quattros were as good as unassisted acceleration could be, but on the four Dunlop M3s I mounted (Reason #1), the Jaguar traction control (Reason #2) makes it nothing short of amazing. I put the hammer down coming from snow-covered stops and the thing takes off at a rate I never imagined possible! Reason #3 is my more recent 'adjustment' to living in Wisconsin against my better judgment: an 8 hp 26" snow thrower. The Quattros taught me that there are some depths of snow where AWD will not help - and the Jag ride height is lower than the Audis ever were, so I take a few passes down the drive any time more than a half a foot of snow falls or drifts into it. -- C.R. Krieger (Still delighted with X-) Wie Geht's? I just wanted to let you know that today I flogged an X-type around the Portland International Raceway. This was a 2004 model with an automatic transmission. I do believe that the "x" has improved greatly over the early versions. I honestly believe that if the transmission firmware was modified and and the annoying speed limiter removed it would be a car I would be pleased with. So there! ;-p (See I can reform!) But then... I drove a E-type convertable and nearly forgot all about the modern Jags in the mirror. (sigh) Peace, Blake > Wie Geht's? 'S'geht gut! But don't be deceived. The Kriegers from which *I'm* descended were in Holmes County, Ohio, by 1840 ... > I just wanted to let you know that today I flogged an X-type around > the Portland International Raceway. This was a 2004 model with an > automatic transmission. And it was more fun than you've had in a car with all your clothes on all year, right? > I do believe that the "x" has improved greatly over the early > versions. I honestly believe that if the transmission firmware was > modified and and the annoying speed limiter removed it would be a car > I would be pleased with. > > So there! ;-p (See I can reform!) I knew you could! > But then... I drove a E-type convertable and nearly forgot all about > the modern Jags in the mirror. (sigh) If you've got a few minutes for the download, the story of my drive in a 507 (with a decent photo) is here, starting on page 3: http://www.badgerbimmers.org/News/Immer/2002_Immers/Aug02.pdf -- C.R. Krieger (Been there; done that) <SNIP SNIP> > > But then... I drove a E-type convertable and nearly forgot all about > > the modern Jags in the mirror. (sigh)and the annoying speed limiter removed it would be a car > > I would be pleased with. > If you've got a few minutes for the download, the story of my drive in > a 507 (with a decent photo) is here, starting on page 3: > > http://www.badgerbimmers.org/News/Immer/2002_Immers/Aug02.pdf (= Hey that must have certainly been a great day! I think the greatest thrill in my car-life was helping the neighbor fire and warm his Stanley Steamers (2) and then cruising the backroads of Idaho together as if in the old'n days. But that was another era and the Bimmer you drove is exceptional, of the first order. Blake "Poor ol' Rover, the auto came and took over."
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