'01 S-Type with under 19,000 miles needs new front brake pads & rotors!?

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Matt Au - 03 Mar 2004 00:45 GMT

I was told by my service advisor today (after performing a $170 Cdn oil
change)that my 2001 V6 S-Type with about 30,000km or under 19,000 miles need
new
front brake pads soon. He told me that I only have 15% of the pads left.
That's my first surprise! I literally fell off my chair when he told me
that I
will have to replace the rotors as well! He explained that Jaguar, because
of
the weigh of the car, does not recommend machining the rotor. In fact, the
dealership does not have a machine to machine the rotors. Total costs is
$630
Cdn + 15% taxes or $485US.

Can anyone give me some suggestions as to whether my service advisor is for
real? What about the fact that I need new pads with less than 30,000km?
What's
with that?

I am in Toronto, if there are other readers in the GTA, speak up please. I
service my car at Grand Touring.

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Comm Clinic - 03 Mar 2004 04:43 GMT

I'd also put your query on to jag-lovers.org , to widen the search.

> I was told by my service advisor today (after performing a $170 Cdn oil
> change)that my 2001 V6 S-Type with about 30,000km or under 19,000 miles need
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> I am in Toronto, if there are other readers in the GTA, speak up please. I
> service my car at Grand Touring.

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Webserve - 03 Mar 2004 11:39 GMT

Jaguar has always made their rotors so that they were not to be turned.
I have 3 Jags, the newest being a 1988 and they are all that way. The
rotors are also designed to not have to be replaced every time you change
pads. I have had 2 sets of pads on one set of rotors in the front of my '88
and there is still no warpage and I am still in specs for the rotor
thickness. The last set of pads went for 35,000 miles before it needed
changing.

The comment that Jaguars are heavier cars is basically true EXCEPT for
the fact that your S-Type is essentially the same design and weight as the
Ford Taurus and the Taurus does not have these problems. My XJ40 is a MUCH
heavier car than your S-Type and I don't have these problems. In fact my
ORIGINAL S-Type, the 1967 doesn't go through pads like you are so this leads
us to Jaguar owner's rule number one. As you only have 19,000 on your car,
I assume you are a fairly new owner, thus you don't know the rule.

The rule is this: NEVER, never, never, never, never, never (Did I say
never?) take your Jaguar to a Jaguar dealership for service of any kind
unless it is under warranty. Jaguar dealers are notorious for having the
ONLY solution being the replacement of the entire part when only an
adjustment is needed. They are terribly over priced as well. Your $130(US)
oil change at the dealership costs me $20.50(US) and I have to use 8.5
quarts in the XJ40 instead of 5 quarts like you use in the S-Type. I use
off the shelf Purolators made for the Jaguar which have the backflow built
in to the filter -- just like the OEM equipment.

I also wonder what it is that they plan to do exactly on the brake job.
Aftermarket prices for 4 rotors and 4 pads sets for the S-Type totals
$300US. Jaguar parts are usually MUCH more than aftermarket parts. With the
price they gave you for the brake job, that leaves them with 1 hour labor.
I would be highly suspect. To do the brakes on my '88 XJ40, it takes me at
least 3 hours, and I DO know what I am doing. Wheel removal, caliper
removal, pad removal, opening the brake fluid system, forcing the pistons
back and inspecting the calipers, putting in new pads, re-assembly all
takes more than 15 minutes per wheel. Then, since you have had the system
open, you MUST bleed the fluid completely from the brake system if you want
the components and ABS to last. This is recommended by Jaguar as well as
every do-it-yourself owner I have ever run into.

Now the final question: Does 19,000 miles seem a bit light on the
mileage? Yes, it does -- with one caveat. I have no idea how you drive. I
have had friends go through a set of pads and rotors in less than 10,000
miles because they drive in city traffic, speeding between lights and
braking hard. Normally, however, I would say there is something wrong.

Just my humble opinion

Webserve

> I'd also put your query on to jag-lovers.org , to widen the search.
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> I
> > service my car at Grand Touring.

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nobody@noplace.com - 18 Mar 2004 08:01 GMT

My 2000 Taurus needed new front pads and rotors at about 24,000 miles.
That is right in line with you needing new pads at 19,000. I knew it needed
rotors because of the wobble when braking from highway speeds (warped from
excessive heat and worn out pads). I wasn't surprised at all, however, as I
drove the car in NYC, in 'spirited' fashion, almost daily. Also, I ride
motorcycles, whose brake pads usually need replacement every 2000-3000
miles.

The Ford dealer wanted $450 to do the front brake pads and rotors, which
actually seemed reasonable, but I'm a cheapskate. I bought Raybestos PG
Plus pads and rotors (quite possibly the best quality you can buy for
general purposes -- not racing) for <$200, and did the work myself in about
two leisurely hours. Probably could've done it in 1 hour of steady work,
and even less if I did these all day for a living, and if I had a lift.

I've also noticed that the better the braking ability of the pads, the
faster they wear out. Sorry, but that is simply the way it works.

I just replaced the front pads on my xj40, and that took about 2 hours of
leisurely work again! I had to clean up the ABS sensors, etc., though. The
rotors looked fine and had adequate thickness (measure against number
stamped onto rotor), so I left them alone. My wheels weren't shimmying at
speed, so I felt comfortable that they were not warped. Frankly, if you
don't have a wobble when braking, and you still have 15% of your pads left,
I can't imagine that there is anything wrong with your rotors. Have they
got cracks or something? If there is 15% left, then they shouldn't have
grooves from the rivets in the pads cutting into them. I bought Ferodo pads
for <$75 mail order. I've had great experience with them on the
motorcycles, so I figured they were worth a try, plus they were much cheaper
than the stock pads. I didn't get the cheapest $47 'PBR' set, simply
because I've never heard of them, and unless I know what I'm getting, I
can't make valid comparisons. The Ferodos were much cheaper than the dealer
parts, and I know the quality and performace are at least as good. About
1000 miles since the change, and I'm thrilled with the braking performance.

Frankly, I'd just replace the pads. A front set should cost less than $75.
I'd be very generous and allow for 1 hour labor at a competent shop.

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C.R. Krieger - 18 Mar 2004 19:41 GMT

> I bought Ferodo pads
> for <$75 mail order. I've had great experience with them on the
> motorcycles, so I figured they were worth a try, plus they were much cheaper
> than the stock pads. I didn't get the cheapest $47 'PBR' set, simply
> because I've never heard of them, and unless I know what I'm getting, I
> can't make valid comparisons.

That's too bad! PBR (formerly 'Axxis', formerly 'Repco') makes
*excellent* automotive pads! I've been using them for about 15 years
on most of my cars, after deciding *not* to put up with another filthy
set of Ferodos. The Ferodos *work* fine, but they put out a *lot* of
dust and it's black! The PBR Deluxe and Metalmasters are known as
good street/autocross/track pads, they dust less, and it's light grey
- about the same color as alloy wheels - so they usually look better
between fewer washings.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

Reply to this Message

nobody@noplace.com - 19 Mar 2004 14:26 GMT

Yes, I remember Axxis and Repco. I think I used Axxis Metalmasters on my
old Ford Probe, and found that they worked great, and were cheap, but
squealed a lot. I pulled them twice to spray the backs with anti-squeal,
and install shims, but after a few hundred miles each repair came right back
to squealing. I replaced them in 5K miles with Raybestos (with integral
anti-squeal backing shim), because in city driving the squealing was driving
me crazy. After 5K miles, the pads had hardly worn at all.

I agree, the Ferodos produce lots of dust. Plus, the Ferodos also have the
integral anti-squeal backing shim.

The pads for each model are obviously of different design from each
manufacturer, so perhaps the PBR XJ40s would work great.

Good luck

> > I bought Ferodo pads
> > for <$75 mail order. I've had great experience with them on the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)

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