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Car Forum / Jaguar Cars / March 2004Pulling tanks from XJ6 Series 2
f.ck, it's easier pulling intelligence from a blonde. Just how the f.ck are u supposed to pull these f'n things out? I've got the manual, I've got a start but I might as well be reading the Koran in Sanskrit via Flemish for all the sense it makes. "Jagdriver" <catzunltd@bigpondSCUM.com> wrote in news:ImeLa.2616$p8.113887 @newsfeeds.bigpond.com: > f.ck, it's easier pulling intelligence from a blonde. > Just how the f.ck are u supposed to pull these f'n things out? > I've got the manual, I've got a start but I might as well be reading the > Koran in Sanskrit via Flemish for all the sense it makes. Bad laguage won't help!! The bolts are between the tank and the "INSIDE" of the car. From memory, a couple are in the boot and there are one or two that were very hard to get at. I think one was underneath at the back near the bumper and the other underneath up the front, close to the exhaust. If you still can't find them, sell the car, buy a Crapadore and change you nickname to holdendriver :-) If removing fuel tanks gets you going, I can't wait until you need to change your timing chains. Okay, pay attention, here you go. Drain both tanks. Remove both rear light assemblies. Remove both rear quarter bumpers. Remove both rear wing closing panels. Remove both side trim panels from inside the boot ( trunk). If you have internal fuel pumps, remove the rear road wheels. Remove the fuel pump cover plate from the rear of the wheel well. Disconnect the fuel feed line. If you have external fuel pumps. Disconnect the fuel feed lines. Remove the fuel gauge sender unit locking ring, this is accessible through the rear light aperture. Remove the fuel tank filler cap assembly and tank filler neck. Prop the fuel tank with timber. Remove the 2 fuel tank mounting bolts from inside the boot. Drop the fuel tank. Fill tank with cold water and soap solution for storage. Remember, patience is a virtue, Jaguar's were built to test your virtuosity. Cheers, Lee. > f.ck, it's easier pulling intelligence from a blonde. > Just how the f.ck are u supposed to pull these f'n things out? > I've got the manual, I've got a start but I might as well be reading the > Koran in Sanskrit via Flemish for all the sense it makes. > If removing fuel tanks gets you going, I can't wait until you need to > change your timing chains. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Cheers, Lee. What with the missus bugging out with the dog and losing my job on the same day, testing my patience with a jag is second nature. How do you pull the fuel tank filler cap assembly and tank filler neck? This is what I'm really having trouble with. I've got everything else off BUT this. Any help would sure be appreciated. Thanks, Whiskers > How do you pull the fuel tank filler cap assembly and tank filler > neck? This is what I'm really having trouble with. I've got everything > else off BUT this. Any help would sure be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Whiskers Undo the four screws and lift it from the top. Open the cap and remove the 4 screws that retain the filler neck. The neck extends into the tank and is sealed by a gasket and O-ring, once the screws are removed a good heave will remove the filler neck. from the tank. If everything else is removed, the tank will not become totally subject to gravity, mind your feet..... Hope this helps. > How do you pull the fuel tank filler cap assembly and tank filler neck? This is what I'm really having trouble with. I've got everything else off BUT this. Any help would sure be appreciated. > Thanks, > Whiskers That worked, Thanks so very much. I was getting a bit frustrated. What ? Getting frustrated with a Jaguar ? Who ever heard of that then ? > That worked, Thanks so very much. I was getting a bit frustrated. Whiskers, I need to replace my fuel pump. I have a 92 XJ6 with an in-tank pump. Did you take out the entire fuel tank? If so, how much trouble was it? Thanks. >How do you pull the fuel tank filler cap assembly and tank filler neck? This is what I'm really having trouble with. I've got everything else off BUT this. Any help would sure be appreciated. > > Thanks, >Whiskers >I need to replace my fuel pump. I have a 92 XJ6 with an in-tank pump. John/JP? Do you know for sure that the fuel pump in your car is in the tank, or might this be something the Jaguar repair shop has told you to scare you off doing it yourself? I saw your posts about fuel pump problems over the last 2 weeks, and I was having nightmares about doing my brother's car because it had similar no-start symptoms. I really didn't want to take the tank out - I'm doing this in the small car park in front of my mother's flat. I was having a hard time looking up technical info on that Jag-lovers web site because every time I looked up XJ6 it gave older model info, and didn't specify the years very well, and those doepy "brochures" pages had so much bullshit to d/l on my dialup connection that I could never really figure it out. But now I think I've got it. For some strange reason the writers of technical assistance seem to think that an XJ6 is not an XJ6 if it's a 1987-1994 - instead they refer to it as an XJ-40. Now to my logical mind, this means either the authors are f.cked in the head, or Jaguar is! But Jaguar makes the things, so I'd guess they'd get the model designations correct, so I can only assume that guys like this below are wrong when they write: "This book contains things that a Jaguar XJ6 owner should know, but doesn't know who to ask. This book is directed at the TRUE XJ6 and not at the XJ40 which was made after 1986 but had an "XJ6" badge on the back. Author: Jim Isbell" Having said that, we must allow that to find anything useful written by guys who I think may be using incorrect or at least confusing model designations, we have to nevertheless use their method of identification ourselves. So does this mean you and I have an XJ-40? At least for purposes of reference to technical matters on Jag-lovers we do. Now, where am I going with this? I just been outside and pulled the fuel pump off my brother's 1990 "XJ6/XJ-40". It was mounted on top of a transaxle member just where Jon-H said I'd find it. It was NOT inside the tank, however it was very difficult to get out, especially when the wind blew up the cardboard sheeting I was laying on and my tapered drift that I was about to use to plug the hose from the tank rolled about 4 feet out of reach. My work clothes are in a heap outside the house. The wires from the pump led up through the floor under the seat of the rear passenger, so I took out the seat cushion (2 screws and heave up) and disconnect the wires at the junction block. I stuck my voltmeter in the holes feeding the electricity to the pump and turned the car on. 0 volts, as expected. I cranked the starter and got about 9-10 volts, as expected. Just for fun, I put the auto trans in R & D and turned the key to on, but it still measured 0 volts. So whoever suggested that this might work was no help. I verified that the ground wire from the pump was a good ground, then I ran a wire from +ve battery to the plus side of the pump connection - nothing! No pumping sound and no fuel spewing out of the disconnected input to the fuel rail. So I know the pump is not working. I also had a hell of a lot of trouble trying to get the pump itself disconnected from everything and dropped out of the vehicle because there doesn't seem to be a big enough space around teh rear suspension/drive components/muffler without first taking the pump out of its mounting bracket and then dropping it down. This sounds like I was trying to remove a major component, not a 2 inch diameter by 6 inch long little fuel pump, but that's "fine British engineering" for you. It would have been easier to drive it to a garage where I could put it on a hoist, but I did not have that option. The filter and hoses all look okay, and the brackets are a bit rusty, and f.cked up from removal bullying, but the prices and availability when the shops are open on monday will dictate what besides the pump I will replace. I will also have to check with alternate sources. Didn't someone say that the pump is a generic Bosch pump, and much cheaper when purchased from Bosch than from Jaguar? The filter itself has a Bosch part number on it, but the pump has no markings. I suppose the brackets and hoses will be Jaguar only items. So, why don't you crawl under there and have a look for your pump mounted on the transaxle too. If it's there, it'll be on the left side, and there'll be 2 little nuts sticking down on a flat surface where the bracket is sitting mounted just above. - Tom The XJ40 and XJ6 are the same thing. The car goes by XJ40 (as in 4.0 liters) in Europe and outside the US. Here in the US, it is marketed as the XJ6. There is also the XJ6 Sovereign and XJ6 Vanden Plas. But those models are just for trim options. The fuel pump is outside the tank on certain models and inside the tank on others. Jaguar kept moving parts around from year to year. The most difficult pump replacement is the in-tank since the tank has to be taken out through the trunk. Hope this helps. >>I need to replace my fuel pump. I have a 92 XJ6 with an in-tank pump. > [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > > - Tom Tom, Actually, As I understand it, the first XJ6 in 1968 was the Series I, followed by the XJ6 Series II and then the XJ6 Series III until 1987 in the US. In 1986, with the first marketing of the squared off body saloon and the 3.6/2.9 litre motor, the car was initially referred to as the as the XJ6 Series IV. Because of ALL the technical as well as interior and exterior changes, the factory reference was changed to XJ40. It had nothing to do with the 4.0 liter engine because the 3.6, 2.9 and 3.2 liter cars are also XJ40s. The series of saloons from 1986 in the UK to 1994 are referred to as the XJ40 series. It is simply as different means of identifying a particular XJ6 series. In addition to this, the V-12 versions (double six series) is also badged as an XJ6, but is referred to as an XJ81 to differentiate it from the standard versions. In 1995, the style changed again. Although still badged as an XJ6, these cars are referred to as an X300 or an X308. In 2004, the style change yet again. These XJ6 badged cars are referred to as X350. There is a demarcation line in the XJ40 models between the 1990+ model years and the 1986-1989 MY. Your 1990 has a different engine, different transmission, different dash, different brakes system, different differential, different electrical system and well different locations for components and in the late 1990 versions, just before 1991, the fuel pump was moved into the petrol tank instead of on the cross member. In terms of the difficulty on working on Jaguar engineering, there are indeed some miserable items. The 7" hose from the water pump tot he fuel rail being another item that is more miserable than the fuel pump. On the other hand, in order to replace the oil pump in my 1997 Dodge full size van, the mechanics had to virtually remove the engine from the vehicle in order to get the oil pan off. Then, when we needed to change thermostat, it took the removal on nearly most of the top end of the engine to get to it since the hose now goes from the radiator to the top center of the engine which is located directly under the windscreen. I won't even start on how miserable everything on my friend's 1992 Toyota Camary is to work on. Cheers Webserve > >I need to replace my fuel pump. I have a 92 XJ6 with an in-tank pump. > [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > > - Tom > In 1995, the style changed again. Although still badged as an XJ6, these cars are referred to as an X300 or an X308. In 2004, the style change yet again. These XJ6 badged cars are referred to as X350.> Ford ruled in the early '90s that Jaguar would refer to all new models as "Xxxx", rather than "XJxx" in order to blend Jaguar into the Ford model code scheme. X300 was the 1995 major update of XJ40, X100 = XK8, X200 = S-Type, X400 = X-Type and, as you pointed out, X350 = the new XJ6 sedans. X308 refers to the '98 m.y. facelift, which included the AJ8 V8 engine replacing the AJ16 I6 in most models. >Actually, As I understand it, the first XJ6 in 1968 was the Series I, >followed by the XJ6 Series II and then the XJ6 Series III until 1987 in the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >also badged as an XJ6, but is referred to as an XJ81 to differentiate it >from the standard versions. >There is a demarcation line in the XJ40 models between the 1990+ model years >and the 1986-1989 MY. Your 1990 has a different engine, different >transmission, different dash, different brakes system, different >differential, different electrical system and well different locations for >components and in the late 1990 versions, just before 1991, the fuel pump >was moved into the petrol tank instead of on the cross member. So, if I want to get a workshop manual and/or exploded parts book for this car, how do I identify what I need? Do the better manuals cover all "options"/changes/differences etc. for 1990 vehicles? The two best routes to go for a manual is the Haynes repair manual at most auto parts stores. It covers the XJ40 from 1988-1994. They got the manual out in the earlier years so it covers the 1988-1990 models much better than the later models. The other direction is to get the actual Jaguar service manuals which are on CD and available from Jaguar or the Heritage trust for $23. Directions on how to order are at http://www.jag-lovers.org/jagcds.php3?ql I actually find that having them both makes life much easier on the repairs. Webserve > >Actually, As I understand it, the first XJ6 in 1968 was the Series I, > >followed by the XJ6 Series II and then the XJ6 Series III until 1987 in the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > this car, how do I identify what I need? Do the better manuals cover > all "options"/changes/differences etc. for 1990 vehicles? Is the CD illustrated? Does it contain clear instructions for most repairs? Thanks >The two best routes to go for a manual is the Haynes repair manual at most >auto parts stores. It covers the XJ40 from 1988-1994. They got the manual [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> this car, how do I identify what I need? Do the better manuals cover >> all "options"/changes/differences etc. for 1990 vehicles? Yes, Like all Jag manuals, it has photos and drawings/schematics. It does not , however contain a parts manual. Webserve > Is the CD illustrated? Does it contain clear instructions for most > repairs? [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >> this car, how do I identify what I need? Do the better manuals cover > >> all "options"/changes/differences etc. for 1990 vehicles? LOL Just what the guy needs, more confusion. I was just trying to help him. I guess you have your book, but acording to mine: "By 1986 the XJ saloon had been in production for eighteen years and yet, as sales figures proved, was still popular. Jaguar had been working on a replacement since the seventies which included plans for a 4.0 liter engine, codenamed XJ40, or Series IV. However, as introduction of the new vehicle was delayed the codename became widely known as rumors spread concerning the car's specifications and the announcement date was continually postponed." "For this reason Jaguar management decided the new model must be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. In no way was this better illustrated than in their decision to retain the name, XJ6. The new car was not to be a Series IV though as this implied a mere face lift. How anyone will distinguish between the old and new models one can but wonder." Bottom line is that the XJ40 appealed to some since it implied a new series and Jaguar did little to discourage it. In reality, it was no major change. >Tom, >Actually, As I understand it, the first XJ6 in 1968 was the Series I, [quoted text clipped - 142 lines] >> >> - Tom > Whiskers, > > I need to replace my fuel pump. I have a 92 XJ6 with an in-tank pump. > > Did you take out the entire fuel tank? If so, how much trouble was it? Yes, the tank must come out. The hardest part is removing all of the hoses. I also recommend that you purchase a pump kit; it contains the tank flange, rf filter module, filter sock, pump "can", and the pump. I have seen many people replace their pumps to have the "can" leak (suck air) when the tank reaches 1/3 empty. That means that they had to do the job all over again. Cheers, Blake >Yes, the tank must come out. The hardest part is removing all of the >hoses. I also recommend that you purchase a pump kit; it contains the >tank flange, rf filter module, filter sock, pump "can", and the pump. >I have seen many people replace their pumps to have the "can" leak >(suck air) when the tank reaches 1/3 empty. That means that they had >to do the job all over again. Hey Blake, By what stroke of ingenuity did Jaguar decide to replace the external pump which I have with an inside-the-tank one? Was there a problem to be solved by this modification? Is there a particular year, or model, or world location in which this was done for some reason? - Tom > Hey Blake, > > By what stroke of ingenuity did Jaguar decide to replace the external > pump which I have with an inside-the-tank one? Well it was most likely done because it cost less to do so. Imagine on the assembly line fuel tanks (with pumps) being stuffed inside the cars; just hook up the hoses and the wires ..BAM! > Was there a problem to be solved by this modification? Sort of, but there are some real benefits to having the pump submerged: 1.)COST Your pump does not need to meet the same specifications as an external pump would. Plastics can be used because being submerged, the pump stays cool. 2.) Start up fuel pressurization happens quicker. (Less cavatation) Imagine if your check valve on your external pump failed, your fuel could siphon out of your pump slowly everytime you park. This means there will be a delay in the engine starting up because you have to wait for the pump to prime, *then* build pressure. So in short, having the pump in the tank helped to reduce first start issues due to pump cavatation or system pressurization delay if the check valve had failed. 3.) They are quieter than external pumps. > Is there a particular year, or model, or world location in which this > was done for some reason? Well I believe in the xj40 the external pump was used from 88 to 90, after that they went internal pumps. So there you have a winded response from me! Every wrench pisses and moans about replacing intank pumps (Which is common in most cars), but its better because the tank can be cleaned, the filters replaced, and hoses replaced in one service. External pumps just get changed and the rest of the system typically gets ignored. Best Regards, Blake There is an upgrade kit listed but runs around $600. Is this the kit you're talking about? Thanks. >> Whiskers, >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Blake |
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