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Car Forum / Jeep / May 2006

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Tricks for removing lug nuts

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testert555@gmail.com - 22 May 2006 15:16 GMT
I got a new set of wheels/tires for my 91.  I was able to loosen all
but 1 lug nut.

I've read lots of suggestions, but need to know, how do I proceed with
doing the least damage?

What's involved with replacing the studs if it comes to that?

Thanks

CTM
Earle Horton - 22 May 2006 15:46 GMT
Soak with penetrating oil, wait a day or so.  Heat the lug nut with a torch,
if the current wheels on the vehicle are steel.  Wear safety goggles, lots
of people don't.  Try a commercial nut splitter, if there is room to get it
on there.  Grind off a side of the nut, with an electric grinder or a Dremel
and a lot of patience.  Then when you put some torque on it with a socket,
it should loosen up.  Some people prefer to go straight to the chisel stage.
Make sure that it is a sharp one.  Air chisel?

Once you get the nut off, and the drum if it is on the back, you should be
able to tap the stud out the back with a hammer.  Don't inadvertently hit
one of the other studs when you do this.

Earle

> I got a new set of wheels/tires for my 91.  I was able to loosen all
> but 1 lug nut.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> CTM
testert555@gmail.com - 22 May 2006 18:47 GMT
Is WD40 good enough to use?
Jeeper - 22 May 2006 18:49 GMT
pb blaster is good to use

> Is WD40 good enough to use?
B A R R Y - 22 May 2006 19:12 GMT
> pb blaster is good to use

It's not good, it's the best!  <G>
DougW - 23 May 2006 00:19 GMT
B A R R Y did pass the time by typing:
>> pb blaster is good to use
>
> It's not good, it's the best!  <G>

Yep..  And it's farily cheap.

Works way better than any other penertating oil
I've tried.  As for WD-40, it won't do a darn thing.

Signature

rbg

Mike Romain - 22 May 2006 19:05 GMT
> Is WD40 good enough to use?

If you have a month or more to wait....

A proper penetrating oil is better.  WD40 displaces water really well so
is good to use on wires and inside the distributor cap, but it is crap
for penetrating oil.

Hitting the nut with a hammer can help or a good fitting socket and a
breaker bar.  When they are bad like that I hope to break them rather
than strip them.  It is an easy job to replace a snapped stud, trying to
hack a stripped one out of the rim with a chisel or drill is a pain in
the butt....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Scott S. - 23 May 2006 00:45 GMT
I had a whopper last year. Both rear tires had those crappy lugs with the
chrome covers on them. Spun 3 on one and another on the other tire. Thought
I would have to cut the lugs and screw up my rims. But no..These did
wonders, if you work on your car you got to ger this set of tools from
sears..Cost $20..
Craftsman Bolt-OutT Damaged Bolt/Nut Remover Set
Sears item #00952160000 Mfr. model #52160

these saved me..plus a 1/2 air impact..more they turn the tighter they
grab..

SCOTT

>> Is WD40 good enough to use?
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Earle Horton - 23 May 2006 01:35 GMT
WD40's main claim to fame, is that it displaces water.  It doesn't do much
for rust though.

Earle

> Is WD40 good enough to use?
Jeff DeWitt - 23 May 2006 02:08 GMT
It also looks really cool when you spray it onto a flame <BG>.

Jeff DeWitt

> WD40's main claim to fame, is that it displaces water.  It doesn't do much
> for rust though.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
aGraham - 23 May 2006 04:49 GMT
> It also looks really cool when you spray it onto a flame <BG>.

Yeah, that is how we got our camp fire started this weekend when
everyone forgot the lighter fluid and the wood was a little wet...  
wasn't safe but did get the job done.

Signature

     o_o_o_o
   /| ,[_____],
 |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
 ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)

DougW - 23 May 2006 04:57 GMT
aGraham did pass the time by typing:

>> It also looks really cool when you spray it onto a flame <BG>.
>
> Yeah, that is how we got our camp fire started this weekend when
> everyone forgot the lighter fluid and the wood was a little wet...
> wasn't safe but did get the job done.

You can also try this one.  Take some cardboard and cut it to 2"x2"
stick a strike anywhere match into one of the holes (or a couple)
so the head just barely sticks out.  Dip the thing in hot wax.  Let
it dry and store in a ziplock bag. (keeps any melting wax from getting
on things in the car)  The wax keeps the match safe and dry and the
rest acts as a real good firestarter.  Used them all the time camping
and rafting.

Signature

DougW

Earle Horton - 23 May 2006 05:57 GMT
> aGraham did pass the time by typing:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> rest acts as a real good firestarter.  Used them all the time camping
> and rafting.

I like Coghlan's Fire Paste, Mautz Fire Ribbon or the equivalent, and a Bic
butane lighter all packed in a Zip-Loc bag.  Total weight about five ounces.

Earle
Lon - 27 May 2006 21:51 GMT
Earle Horton proclaimed:

>>aGraham did pass the time by typing:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Earle

Some surplus stores have small waxy blocks that look like toilet paper
impregnated with dark amber waxy compound and one end that has an
oxidiser.  Another item that works but is a bit hard to come by due to
recent troubles is C4.  Burns readily with a very hot flame and will
start rather wet wood.
billy ray - 28 May 2006 05:57 GMT
Plastic explosives are easy to make as is Thermite which would do better in
this case for removing stuck lugs..

Anyone who took highschool chemistry can make either one from stuff you have
around the house or can pick up locally..

> Earle Horton proclaimed:
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> recent troubles is C4.  Burns readily with a very hot flame and will start
> rather wet wood.
Earle Horton - 28 May 2006 14:58 GMT
A coworker in the orchard told me, that he once removed a stubborn shock
absorber mounting bolt, using a 44 Magnum pistol.  Some people, you just
know that they are telling you the truth.

Earle

> Plastic explosives are easy to make as is Thermite which would do better in
> this case for removing stuck lugs..
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> > recent troubles is C4.  Burns readily with a very hot flame and will start
> > rather wet wood.
billy ray - 28 May 2006 16:23 GMT
Earle,

I'm not sure how to take that comment.

>A coworker in the orchard told me, that he once removed a stubborn shock
> absorber mounting bolt, using a 44 Magnum pistol.  Some people, you just
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
Lon - 28 May 2006 19:14 GMT
Probably got the idea from Bill Mauldin's famous GI putting a Jeep out
of its misery.

Earle Horton proclaimed:

> A coworker in the orchard told me, that he once removed a stubborn shock
> absorber mounting bolt, using a 44 Magnum pistol.  Some people, you just
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
Stupendous Man - 28 May 2006 16:29 GMT
> Plastic explosives are easy to make as is Thermite which would do better
> in
> this case for removing stuck lugs..

Just don't try this on real magnesium wheels.

Signature

Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

billy ray - 28 May 2006 17:41 GMT
Why not?  A little thermite would be a great way to them going...

>> Plastic explosives are easy to make as is Thermite which would do better
>> in
>> this case for removing stuck lugs..
>
> Just don't try this on real magnesium wheels.
Lon - 28 May 2006 19:13 GMT
ANFO is easy to make but makes a poor fire starter.  It also has the
downside that it is easier to set off crappy home made explosives than
stuff designed for warheads and such.  Some odd prejudice for not
blowing the thing up when it gets the nudge from whatever is launching
or shooting it.  Thermit has the downside that you end up with all that
liquid iron drizzling around and welding things together.  Plus it might
be hot enough to ignite an aluminum wheel or at best damage it.

billy ray proclaimed:

> Plastic explosives are easy to make as is Thermite which would do better in
> this case for removing stuck lugs..
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>>recent troubles is C4.  Burns readily with a very hot flame and will start
>>rather wet wood.
testert555@gmail.com - 30 May 2006 14:12 GMT
Update:  The cap is off the nut.  I sprayed the nut with PB Blaster
several times prior to trying to loosen the nut.  I feels like I get a
tight fit with an 18mm socket, but when applying pressure, it slips.
The nut is set deep so I don't think I can use the dremel tool on it.

Should the next approach be heat or nut removal kit from Sears?

Thanks,

CTM
DougW - 30 May 2006 15:18 GMT
testert555@gmail.com did pass the time by typing:
> Update:  The cap is off the nut.  I sprayed the nut with PB Blaster
> several times prior to trying to loosen the nut.  I feels like I get a
> tight fit with an 18mm socket, but when applying pressure, it slips.
> The nut is set deep so I don't think I can use the dremel tool on it.

6 or 12 point.  A 6 point is what you need to get a better grip.

> Should the next approach be heat or nut removal kit from Sears?

Possibly.

Signature

DougW

billy ray - 30 May 2006 17:54 GMT
If you have a 4-way, or a friend with one, give the other sockets a try.

Generally one will work with the caps on and another will work with them
off.

> Update:  The cap is off the nut.  I sprayed the nut with PB Blaster
> several times prior to trying to loosen the nut.  I feels like I get a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> CTM
Mike Romain - 30 May 2006 18:52 GMT
Not on Jeeps...  The odd one out is an 18 mm.  No lugs are 18 stock.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

> If you have a 4-way, or a friend with one, give the other sockets a try.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >
> > CTM
Earle Horton - 31 May 2006 01:43 GMT
He could try a six point impact socket that is just a bit too small, and
hammer it on there.  Red Green: "Any tool, is the right tool."

Earle

> Not on Jeeps...  The odd one out is an 18 mm.  No lugs are 18 stock.
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> > >
> > > CTM
Will Honea - 31 May 2006 03:55 GMT
You might not be getting the socket all the way onto the nut.  With my
older deep set aluminum rims I had to feather the end of the socket to
get it to seat all the way down or it would just catch the top of the
nut an slip under pressure.  On those !@#$%^ lug nuts that lose the
tine, I don't even pretend to know what size they are.  I start with 2
sets of sockets and keep working down in size alternating between the
SAE and metric 6-point sets (gives me the smallest step between socket
sizes - the number is irrelevant in this case) until I find the
smallest one I can get to start on, then drive it on all the way.  I
can always knock the nut out  on the bench once it's out.

Have you checked to be sure the wheel stud isn't spinning on you?

> Update:  The cap is off the nut.  I sprayed the nut with PB Blaster
> several times prior to trying to loosen the nut.  I feels like I get a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> CTM

Signature

Will Honea

Stupendous Man - 23 May 2006 01:42 GMT
>Some people prefer to go straight to the chisel stage.
> Make sure that it is a sharp one.  Air chisel?

Good advice, use the chisel only if normal stuff doesn't do it. My best
chisel technique is to select a drill that is almost as wide as the sides of
the nut at the hex points, drill two holes in-line with the stud on opposite
sides, then use the chisel to split it, also pounding it in the direction
in-line with the stud. A narrow chisel can do this inside the boss on
deep-hole aluminum wheels.
Signature

Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

Grumman-581 - 22 May 2006 19:14 GMT
> I got a new set of wheels/tires for my 91.  I was able to loosen all
> but 1 lug nut.

Have you rounded off the nut yet?  If not, then you just need to use
more force... I've found that I can put more torque on my lug nuts
with a T-handle lug wrench than my air powered impact wrench can exert
to remove the nut... If all else fails, put a cheater bar on your lug
wrench... If you still can't break it loose with a 4-6 ft cheater bar,
either you're a wimp or someone welded your lug nut to your rim...
DougW - 23 May 2006 00:28 GMT
testert555 did pass the time by typing:
> I got a new set of wheels/tires for my 91.  I was able to loosen all
> but 1 lug nut.

Ah.. someone probably spun them on with an air wrench.
Never use an air wrench to torque lugnuts, always use a torque wrench.
It's especially important on disc brakes.

> I've read lots of suggestions, but need to know, how do I proceed with
> doing the least damage?

Mark the one that won't come off with a marker, put the other ones
back on.  Go to a local auto shop and ask if the mechanic could hit
that nut with an impact wrench.

What ever you do, don't lean on a lugnut wrench... if the bolt or the stud
goes you could wind up eating pavement.   A 3' breaker bar and six point
socket works for me on most.  Just remember where the bar is going to go
if it lets loose. :O

> What's involved with replacing the studs if it comes to that?

Hammer the old one out, lube up a new one, use the tire (or a thick bit
of pipe/washers, and lugnut to suck the new one in)  Not that hard, it
just depends on how bad the rust is.

Signature

DougW

Herb Leong - 25 May 2006 09:21 GMT
#I got a new set of wheels/tires for my 91.  I was able to loosen all
#but 1 lug nut.
Put the other 4 back on.  Get them nice and *hand*tool* tight.

Did the cap come off the lug nut?  If it did, you now have a metric lug
nut.  17mm or 18mm, iirc.  If you still have the cap, you can use it to
"adapt" the metric lug nut back to a 3/4" one.  The problem is that the
sheet metal is kinda fragile and it only works once or twice before the
sheet metal tears.

#I've read lots of suggestions, but need to know, how do I proceed with
#doing the least damage?

Go to Sears and buy this or something equivalent to it:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Mechanics+Tools&pid=00944816000

You can also use a flex head handle without the ratchet:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Mechanics+Tools&pid=00944202000
I just find the ratchet is more useful overall...

You want the longer handle.  This way, you don't need a cheater bar.  

The flex head lets you have a bit more working room away from the
sidewall while still remaining fairly close to the lug nut.  The
problem with most tire irons is that it seems that half your effort is
being used to keep the tire iron from slipping off the lug nut and that
you can never get enough leverage.  Never mind most have cheapie
6-point sockets made out of pot metal.

Use a 12-point 3/4 inch socket (if your cap came off, then you will
need a 12-point 18mm (or was it 17mm?) socket).  

If the lug nut is totally stripped to hell, then you will need this:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&pid=
00952162000


Once you loosen the bad nut tiny bit, leave it on and loosen the other
nuts a tiny bit in a star pattern, then loosen the bad one again and
repeat.

If you have stock sheet-metal covered lug nuts, replace them with good
quality solid ones.

#What's involved with replacing the studs if it comes to that?
Front or rear?

/herb
Scott S. - 25 May 2006 09:57 GMT
yep those bolt removers from sears are great that were mentioned monday

SCOTT
> #I got a new set of wheels/tires for my 91.  I was able to loosen all
> #but 1 lug nut.
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> /herb
DougW - 25 May 2006 13:47 GMT
Herb Leong did pass the time by typing:

> Did the cap come off the lug nut?  If it did, you now have a metric lug
> nut.  17mm or 18mm, iirc.  If you still have the cap, you can use it to
> "adapt" the metric lug nut back to a 3/4" one.  The problem is that the
> sheet metal is kinda fragile and it only works once or twice before the
> sheet metal tears.

Not to hijack the thread, but what is up with the metal cap crap?
Guess it's one better than snap on plastic but sheesh...

I lost one of mine on the ZJ, but up till then never realized they were
metal covers.  Plan on getting some new (solid) lugnuts next time.

On the plus side, once that metal comes off you basically have a locking
lugnut. :)

Signature

DougW

Herb Leong - 25 May 2006 14:37 GMT
#Herb Leong did pass the time by typing:
#
#> Did the cap come off the lug nut?  If it did, you now have a metric lug
#> nut.  17mm or 18mm, iirc.  If you still have the cap, you can use it to
#> "adapt" the metric lug nut back to a 3/4" one.  The problem is that the
#> sheet metal is kinda fragile and it only works once or twice before the
#> sheet metal tears.
#
#Not to hijack the thread, but what is up with the metal cap crap?
#Guess it's one better than snap on plastic but sheesh...
They were used on the YJ so I can't blame the new German company
for that.  My guess to the reason why is that the sheet metal is
cheaper to make pretty looking than a solid lug nut.

#I lost one of mine on the ZJ, but up till then never realized they were
#metal covers.  Plan on getting some new (solid) lugnuts next time.
I lost one while changing a tire a week after buying my first YJ.
The POS wrench that came with the car was way less than useless as
I think it contributed to the cap coming off.

I was sooo pissed...  Had to tow the bugger to a shop.  I carried
a long handled Craftsman rachet, two 12-point sockets, and a AAA
card afterwards.  Then after I lost my 5th (or 8th?) cap, I gave
up and got solid lug nuts.  Maybe I should have kept the metric
nuts--everything else seems to be either Torx or metric on a Jeep
nowadays...

#On the plus side, once that metal comes off you basically have a locking
#lugnut. :)
I guess, but it's a crappy locking lug nut when anyone with a metric
socket or tireiron can make off with your rims.  ;-)

/herb
mabar - 26 May 2006 01:24 GMT
Yep, my '02 & '06 TJs came with the sheet metal covered lug nuts. It is only
a matter of time until the sheet metal falls off. I replaced all my lug nuts
with solid nuts from my local auto parts store. Then those started rusting.

Sheeze!

Tom

> Herb Leong did pass the time by typing:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> On the plus side, once that metal comes off you basically have a locking
> lugnut. :)
Lon - 27 May 2006 21:52 GMT
DougW proclaimed:

> Herb Leong did pass the time by typing:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> On the plus side, once that metal comes off you basically have a locking
> lugnut. :)

Not if you have a Dremel
Mike Romain - 25 May 2006 14:30 GMT
It's an 18mm when the cap comes off.....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

> #I got a new set of wheels/tires for my 91.  I was able to loosen all
> #but 1 lug nut.
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> /herb
 
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