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Car Forum / Jeep / October 2006new wrangler - ug
i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since the first land rover started out as a jeep!). im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins contract expires) THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.  SignatureNathan W. Collier http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://InlineDiesel.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Carry.com http://GlockCarry.com Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and running gear. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random > recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > http://1911Carry.com > http://GlockCarry.com > Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and > running gear. i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format that shows it if youre interested. SignatureNathan in Montana http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Carry.com http://GlockCarry.com http://hkusp.info I copied the video too. It starts off with the first 4X4 cars around 1910, modified to use as trucks in World War I. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format > that shows it if youre interested. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > http://GlockCarry.com > http://hkusp.info >i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random >recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better. Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world. I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better than the other. Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the Grand Cherokee? I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done right? Just trying to learn more and more. Thanks First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle boot or the height of a regular live axle: http://www.billhughes.com/05cherokee/05cherokee2front.jpg Plus look at how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to get stuck on a road: http://www.billhughes.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison: http://www.billhughes.com/XJversusKJ.jpg The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages, It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets: 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks with Real leaf springs. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com > Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world. > I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Just trying to learn more and more. > Thanks http://www.billhughes.com/89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg > First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten > inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)" http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html > First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten > inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> Just trying to learn more and more. >> Thanks Thanks. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)" > > http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction. Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so. I think people that buy Jeeps to use them off-road buy them for more than just the "Jeep heritage." People that would buy it just for the "heritage" would fall into the category of posers that never take them off-road, and I know you aren't one of those, so I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more important to you than "capability." People that buy a vehicle for off-road performance, however, I don't think will be disappointed with the new Wrangler. You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid axle? Talk about picking nits. Some people just don't like change. >i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random >recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since >the first land rover started out as a jeep!). > Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction. > Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so. i feel coils springs were a natural evolution without changing the overall spirit of the vehicle. in fact, i feel they made the jeep even more capable than ever before. > I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more important to you than > "capability." it isnt "more" important, but capability is what built jeep heritage. without the heritage, its just another 4x4. > You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers > considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid > axle? Talk about picking nits. the majority of my negative opinion is based on the overall size of the vehicle. jeep was heading in the right direction......the rubicon release was a huge boost, and the unlimited was also an awesome addition......but this new wrangler is just to big to be a SWB jeep. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://InlineDiesel.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Carry.com http://GlockCarry.com Nate Dog! How have you been!? I'm diggin my Rubi Unlimited. I've gone places I never could before, especially in AZ. Personally, I like how they've kept the basic jeep context...but I won't be trading up basically due to the work I've put into my jeep. If I had one complaint of my jeep, it would be shoulder room. I'm actually hurting after a few hour ride. If the new one is 2" wider in the shoulder area, I'd be the first to admit I'd rather have it over mine... I'm almost afraid to sit in the new one. Signaturemark www.hydrotoys.com >> Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction. >> Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > was a huge boost, and the unlimited was also an awesome addition......but > this new wrangler is just to big to be a SWB jeep. Hi Sandman, I will remind you of a number of Real Jeepers that believe in Real Leaf springs: http://www.sounddomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=330099&image=http://mem image.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/465000-465999/465730_8_full.jpg http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/tjleafsprings/ http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/ford44/fronthang.jpg God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > i feel coils springs were a natural evolution without changing the overall > spirit of the vehicle. in fact, i feel they made the jeep even more capable [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > http://1911Carry.com > http://GlockCarry.com >> Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction. >> Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so. > > i feel coils springs were a natural evolution without changing the overall > spirit of the vehicle. in fact, i feel they made the jeep even more > capable than ever before. My point being every redesign brings out the "Why don't they leave it alone" in a lot of people. Your comment about DC turning the Wrangler into a Land Rover wannabe made me remember that Land Rover had coils way before the Wrangler, so you could say they have been trying to do this for 10 years. I agree about the coils, but remember were lambasted when they were intro'd in the Wrangler, and time has proven their worth. > the majority of my negative opinion is based on the overall size of the > vehicle. jeep was heading in the right direction......the rubicon release > was a huge boost, and the unlimited was also an awesome addition......but > this new wrangler is just to big to be a SWB jeep. The 2-door JK's wheelbase (95.4") is only 2 inches longer than the standard TJ (93.4), so I would consider it qualifying as a SWB. Throw in a heftier Tcase with no more slipjoint on the output shaft, an electric swaybar disconnect, electric lockers (on the Rubicon), longer control arms, and other improvements in the design and you have the most capable off-the-sales floor Wrangler to date. Of course it comes with all the electronic crap like stability control but that has to do more with the consumer expecting it than the actual need for it. I agree that the 4-door Wrangler is huge, but I think of that one as the *true* replacement for the XJ, (or finally the incarnation of the Dakar concept) with solid axles, seating for 5 and a decent cargo area. That's why we might consider getting one in 08 or 09, once the bugs are worked out of the new model. As for me, it will take a while to get used to the front fenders...they look like they are barely hanging on, and the front bumper is butt-ugly. And full doors with the top off look stupid. That said I've seen pre-production JK Wranglers all over SE Michigan for months now, believe me, even from a distance you can tell it's a Wrangler. If bouncing off the ground, losing traction and having to be pulled out of the pit, in exchange for cushy road ability is what your really want: http://www.billhughes.com/bouncingFord.jpg God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com > My point being every redesign brings out the "Why don't they leave it alone" > in a lot of people. Your comment about DC turning the Wrangler into a Land [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Wranglers all over SE Michigan for months now, believe me, even from a > distance you can tell it's a Wrangler. Caught it in the paper today... '07 is the last year for the 2-door Wrangler. Dan Naperville, IL And I thought it was ten years earlier. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Caught it in the paper today... '07 is the last year for the 2-door > Wrangler. > > Dan > > Naperville, IL I don't believe it, your paper is wrong or you misunderstood what they said. O7 is the first year for the 4 door Wrangler, but there is no way they are getting rid of the "iconic" 2 door. I don't know if it's possible to overestimate the stupidity of the DC management but even they can't be THAT stupid! Jeff DeWitt > Caught it in the paper today... '07 is the last year for the 2-door > Wrangler. > > Dan > > Naperville, IL > I don't believe it, your paper is wrong or you misunderstood what they said. > > O7 is the first year for the 4 door Wrangler, but there is no way they > are getting rid of the "iconic" 2 door. Granted... I am the product of the public school system... but regardless of what part of the world you're from... (perhaps with the exception of some certain parts of some southern states...) it's pretty hard to misinterpret: "The 2006 Jeep Wrangler is the last SUV to be offered with only two doors." It goes on to say "The 2007 Wrangler soon arrives with availability of its first four-door model, a V-6 engine instead of the traditional inline (cylinders all in a row) six-cylinder and the chance to get rear-wheel drive instead of the standard four-wheel-drive setup." Full article is here: http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-car11.html Could be wrong? Sure. But reliable auto writers typically dance around "absolutes" when talking rumor - as there's always plenty of rumor to go around. It runs rampant in the motorcycle press. But '07 is a ways away, and decisions could change. Perhaps its an announcement to gauge backlash? Dropping a popular, well-selling vehicle with a strong fan base doesn't make sense to me either. - Dan - This is paragraph two from that new report: "The 2006 Jeep Wrangler is the last SUV to be offered with only two doors. The 2007 Wrangler soon arrives with availability of its first four-door model, a V-6 engine instead of the traditional inline (cylinders all in a row) six-cylinder and the chance to get rear-wheel drive instead of the standard four-wheel-drive setup." You could also take this to mean that in future years '07+ that both 2 and 4 door models are slated for production. >> I don't believe it, your paper is wrong or you misunderstood what they >> said. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Dan - That is the way I understood it also. Chris > This is paragraph two from that new report: > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> >> - Dan - I figure anything those Bozos do is just going to increase the potential collector value of my Jeep. If I take good care of it, as I plan to do, my heirs stand to make a pile of money out of a "non-lifted, non-hacked, original condition" 1995 Wrangler. Earle > That is the way I understood it also. > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > >> > >> - Dan - That and the State of Kalifornia makes anything built before 1976 worth thirty thousand. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > This is paragraph two from that new report: > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> >> - Dan - Oh, I see the confusion now, it's a very clumsily written sentence. What he SHOULD have said was something like "The 2006 Wrangler is the last SUV to be offered only as a two door, starting next year both two and four door models will be offered." Jeff DeWitt The writer is from Chicago, if he went to the local schools he is lucky to be able to read and write at all... > Oh, I see the confusion now, it's a very clumsily written sentence. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt When the 2001 model year was done, Jeep Cherokee production was ended at Toledo South Assembly Plant . That part of the old Willys-Overland plant was torn down. When the 2006 Wrangler model year was over, the rest of the plant was closed and the rest of the building slated for teardown. The eliimination of the in-line 6 will end its production at the old AMC Kenosha Engine Plant. I do not know what product is left in Kenosha. The Liberty and new 4 door Wrangler are assembled in Toledo North Assembly Palnt. This is visible north of I-75 near the intersection with I-280. This is famous for having the body-in-whie and paint departments outsourced. The Grand Cherokee is assembled in the Jefferson North Assembly Plant, the only auto assembly plant in Detoit. Last time I was in Kenosha the AMC final assembly plant was a park. I drove past the Willys Toledo plant recently, non of it looked torn down but most of it looked idle, though there were lots of new Jeeps in the parking lots. IIRC the Wrangler production was also transferred to the Toldeo North plant when it opened, but I might be wrong. > When the 2001 model year was done, Jeep Cherokee production was ended > at Toledo South Assembly Plant . That part of the old Willys-Overland [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The Grand Cherokee is assembled in the Jefferson North Assembly Plant, > the only auto assembly plant in Detoit. > Last time I was in Kenosha the AMC final assembly plant was a park. > > I drove past the Willys Toledo plant recently, non of it looked torn down > but most of it looked idle, though there were lots of new Jeeps in the > parking lots. IIRC the Wrangler production was also transferred to the > Toldeo North plant when it opened, but I might be wrong. The engine plant is still here in Kenosha. According to this, they make the 3.5L and 2.7L V6's: http://cgcomm.daimlerchrysler.com/plants.do?method=display&docId=345 Last time I was at the local dealer, I was told that Daimler was contemplating bringing a Hemi line to Kenosha. Of course, that info was from a sales droid, and before $3.00/gal gasoline... -John I agree, and since I know for a fact that the 2007 Wrangler is available with two or four doors, and I have seen both versions driving my locale, this would be logical. > Oh, I see the confusion now, it's a very clumsily written sentence. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt The United States of American may have won the battles, but we lost World War II. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ I worked for a couple of years at the old Chrysler Mound Road Engine plant, now razed. The 318 V8, 3.9L V6, and cast iron and cast aluminum V10 engines were made at MRE. The V10 assembly has moved to the Conner Avenue Viper Plant. In some sort of political deal, Chrysler Mack Avenue Engine Plants ! and 2 were built on the site of a former stamping plant in Detroit. Mack 1 which builds the 4.7L V8, the replacment for the 318 went into production in 2001. Mack 2 builds the 3.7L V6, the replacment for the 3.9L V6 and 4.0L I6, and went on-line at the end of 2002. Indianapolis Foundry is now mostly torn down. I believe engine blocks are being imported. Chrysler seems to be getting rid of legacy plants with "difficult" UAW locals. > "The 2006 Jeep Wrangler is the last SUV to be offered with only two > doors." [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-car11.html This does not say that the two door will be cancelled. It says that the 2006 model is the last with ONLY two doors. The 2007 model has two doors OR four doors. Nowhere does it say that it will become ONLY FOUR doors. As it won't. There should be a two door liberty. You can get two door Grand Vitara's overseas. Not very grand that way. They should change the name. |
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