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Car Forum / Jeep / December 2006?Black box in 2000 wrangler, 96 cherokee.
I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any car with an airbag does have them. never heard of such a thing....where did you read this? > I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and > whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the > auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > car with an airbag does have them. This in an article in the Vancouver Sun, reproduced by canada.com and showing up in aggregator site, bourque.com > never heard of such a thing....where did you read this? > > > I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and > > whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the > > auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > > car with an airbag does have them. doylexus@yahoo.com proclaimed: > I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and > whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the > auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > car with an airbag does have them. What is it you are afraid of? Your sources are incorrect, it isn't the airbag. It is the vehicle control system(s) that run your engine, transmission, etc. etc. For sure all GMs with GPS ON STAR record the last thirty seconds of their vehicle's actions, and Fords for the last ten years: http://news.com.com/Rocky+road+for+car+black+boxes/2009-1041_3-5604449.html http://www.slate.com/id/2087207/ http://www.expertlaw.com/library/accidents/auto_black_justice.html I think it's good idea, showing just how many antilock brake failures there are. If you're worried about your data, buy a DRB III scanner and erase that info: http://cgi.ebay.com/OTC-CHRYSLER-DRB-III-DRB3-SCAN-TOOL-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ23006 9900992QQihZ013QQcategoryZ41226QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and > whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the > auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > car with an airbag does have them. Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine. >I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and >whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any >car with an airbag does have them. "The "black box" recorded that the SUV was traveling at 71 mph about five seconds before its airbags deployed. Trask told investigators that his speedometer showed 55 mph before he began passing the car." http://www.motorists.com/issues/edrs/mainegovernor.html Can you afford the attorney fees necessary to protect yourself? >Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine. > >>I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and >>whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the >>auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any >>car with an airbag does have them. -- msosborn at msosborn dot com This just proves that someone involved in the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" was able to either alter the black box data after the fact. > "The "black box" recorded that the SUV was traveling at 71 mph about > five seconds before its airbags deployed. Trask told investigators [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > -- msosborn at msosborn dot com So you're doing 65 in a 60 when the guy next to you sideswipes you into the ditch. Want to guess who's fault it is? Perhaps you'll like paying taxes based on the miles you drive? Or the roads you drive on? This is only the start and already we're not being informed of the extent of the monitoring underway. It's only going to become more and more obtrusive. >This just proves that someone involved in the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" >was able to either alter the black box data after the fact. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com -- msosborn at msosborn dot com So the guy tried to lie for an insurance scam or to avoid a ticket or to avoid liability with whom he hit. The SOB deserves every ticket and lawyers fees he has incurred in my opinion And he deserves to be nailed for being a liar. What about the victims of his lies? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) Matt, Osborn wrote: > "The "black box" recorded that the SUV was traveling at 71 mph about > five seconds before its airbags deployed. Trask told investigators [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > -- msosborn at msosborn dot com If he was going 55 "before he began passing the car" he probably was doing 71, that would be a reasonable and safe passing speed .... well assuming that the speed limit was not the 45 mph that it was. > So the guy tried to lie for an insurance scam or to avoid a ticket or to > avoid liability with whom he hit. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com Ditto. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > So the guy tried to lie for an insurance scam or to avoid a ticket or to > avoid liability with whom he hit. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) Kind of an insult, Mr. bllsht, to suggest it is paranoid to wonder if a manufacturer included a black box in your car. As a preliminary matter, if a black box is included, then it may be subject to discovery if you get in a car accident lawsuit, or worse, are subject to criminal charges, (which could work for you or against you, but would most certainly reduce any wiggle room). If you think that's paranoid, idiot, just check the court dockets or some of the deposition transcripts in auto cases (it's amazing how everyone states they were traveling at the speed limit, had the green or yellow light, applied their brakes, etc.). > Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine. > > >I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and > >whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the > >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > >car with an airbag does have them. If you're gonna drive like a fool, endangering not only yourself, but everyone else on the road, and are afraid you won't be able to lie your way out of it, then go ahead and be paranoid. If that insults you, jackass...Good! >Kind of an insult, Mr. bllsht, to suggest it is paranoid to wonder if a >manufacturer included a black box in your car. As a preliminary matter, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any >> >car with an airbag does have them. In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a collision. It turned out from black box data that the car had actually been involved in two collisions, seconds apart, and that the airbag had properly deflated itself before the second, fatal one. In this case, black box data cleared the manufacturer of fault. Maybe if the subject had had his seatbelt fastened, it could have saved him, but as the black box data proved, there was nothing the manufacturer could have done, to improve the subject's chances of survival in this case. I am all for justice, but consider this. Who pays to put that black box in the car in the first place? (Customer does.) How do they legally get the customer to pay his own money to install a device whose main purpose seems to be to clear the manufacturer of liability in civil suits, and as a side benefit implicates the customer in criminal proceedings? The main argument for these things is that they "increase vehicle safety" but I don't yet see how they do that. Earle > If you're gonna drive like a fool, endangering not only yourself, but > everyone else on the road, and are afraid you won't be able to lie [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > >> >car with an airbag does have them. I'll bet that also made one driver relieved. He or she would have been thinking they were the ones that killed some poor guy in an accident when in fact, it was someone or something else that dealt the fatal blow. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his > airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > > >> >car with an airbag does have them. No hay mal que por bien no venga. Or as you gringoes say, every cloud has a silver lining. Earle > I'll bet that also made one driver relieved. He or she would have been > thinking they were the ones that killed some poor guy in an accident [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > > >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > > > >> >car with an airbag does have them. >In one case I heard about, the subject was allegedly killed because his >airbag inflated improperly, failing to save him from the effects of a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >for these things is that they "increase vehicle safety" but I don't yet see >how they do that. I guess it depends on who's using the data, and what their motive is. A manufacturer learning how their systems work in the real world would be much less newsworthy than somebody who kills while driving like an idiot and is held liable based based on captured data. >Earle > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> >> >auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any >> >> >car with an airbag does have them. The limited information and the limited ways the "black boxes" are now used are just the beginning. I can easily foresee a future where the "black box" is used for all kinds of more government regulations, controls, and limitations on everybody's life. Extra taxation for miles driven, roads that I drive on, lanes that I drive on, where I have been, what time of day or night, and many other limitations, taxations and controls on my life that I am not even able to imagine at this time. For those who think that this is paranoid thinking, please read George Orwell's book, 1984, or Ayn Rand's book, Atlas Shrugged. I realize that both of these books are fiction, but much of this "fiction" is already happening and will happen in the near future. Just look at all the new controls, regulations, taxations, and limitations on personal freedoms that governments have instituted in the last 10, 20 or 30 years to get an idea of some of the ways "black boxes" might be used in the future. For all you smokers (I don't smoke,) how long will it be before smoking in your own vehicle is outlawed and the "black box" will not allow your vehicle to start if tobacco smoke is detected? Tom > >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine. I knew a guy who got in a head-on collision while trying to light a cigaret. Your tobacco smoke detector wouldn't have detected that. Also some citizens prefer to smoke non-tobacco substances. How will you prevent them from smoking in their vehicles? Earle > The limited information and the limited ways the "black boxes" are now used > are just the beginning. I can easily foresee a future where the "black box" [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine. Infrared detectors preset for 700 degrees. >I knew a guy who got in a head-on collision while trying to light a >cigaret. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> >> > >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine. > Infrared detectors preset for 700 degrees. Just move the gas tank back inside the cabin. :) >> I knew a guy who got in a head-on collision while trying to light a >> cigaret. >> Your tobacco smoke detector wouldn't have detected that. Also some >> citizens >> prefer to smoke non-tobacco substances. How will you prevent them >> from smoking in their vehicles? Earl: I'm not advocating tobacco smoke detectors, or any other kind of smoke detectors. I'm just saying that the information "black boxes" of today contain, and ways they are now being used are just the beginning of ever-increasing controls, regulations, limitations of personal freedoms and possible taxations on all of our lives. Tom > I knew a guy who got in a head-on collision while trying to light a cigaret. > Your tobacco smoke detector wouldn't have detected that. Also some citizens > prefer to smoke non-tobacco substances. How will you prevent them from > smoking in their vehicles? > > Earle Foolish question, but why shouldn't you pay extra taxes for the miles you drive (to pay your share of the road repairs), when compared to someone who doesn't drive as many miles? Why shouldn't you be charged/convicted based on your actions in a collision, rather than relying on your perhaps faulty/dishonest recollection of split second timing months later? Clint > The limited information and the limited ways the "black boxes" are now > used [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >> >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine. Clint: I already DO pay taxes for the miles that I drive in the form of gasoline taxes, which account for probably about 1/3 of the price of a gallon of gas that I pay now. I hope you are not advocating another form of taxation on top of the LITERALLY hundreds of different kinds of taxation that you and I already pay. Tom > Foolish question, but why shouldn't you pay extra taxes for the miles you > drive (to pay your share of the road repairs), when compared to someone who [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Clint You talk about taxation like it is a bad thing. At least we have "taxation with representation" now. Somehow, it still tastes and smells the same, huh? Earle > Clint: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > > > Clint Presumably the federal tax on gasoline meets the purpose, although in the case of Jeeps, there is an aerodynamic "brick tax" extra slight penalty. Clint proclaimed: > Foolish question, but why shouldn't you pay extra taxes for the miles > you drive (to pay your share of the road repairs), when compared to [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> >>> >> Just make sure you wear your foil hat at night and you'll be fine. What really surprised me about the message string is as follows and shows something about the brain cells of the majority (but not all) of those who responded: The premise is that we already know from credible reports that (a) some manufacturers have installed the boxes, and (b) not all manufacturers have clearly told their purchasers about them, (c) only later models have them, and (d) the devices gather data about at least the last X-time-period before a given accident. The question was, Do those specific vehicles have those boxes? The majority response was, (a) It is paranoid to ask, (b) Asking implies you are doing something wrong. In fact, the question was a request for facts, not for ill-thought out moralizing. In addition, the question is neutral: You want to know just as badly if there is a box whether you drove the Wrangler or Cherokee in question or you got hit by one. To say, something like a few posters have said in effect: "We know it may exist, we know therefore that someone else thinks the information is worth gathering, but we think it would be paranoid to ask about it, and in all cases we don't want to know WHETHER the information is available, never mind what it is" seems just nuts. It's the equivalent of the knee jerk response to various efforts to limit individual rights, i.e., the statement goes, "If you didn't do nothin' wrong, you don't care if they search your trailer" etc. If you think about it, you need to care because the same statement could be made in a totalitarian state and be as equally valid as in a state with a Bill of Rights, Charter of Rights, EU Convention, etc. So, if we could cut the "bllsht" and get a real answer, that might be something!! > I am wondering if a 2000 wrangler or 1996 Cherokee would have them (and > whether they can be turned off). Just read a story saying that the > auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any > car with an airbag does have them. > What really surprised me about the message string is as follows and > shows something about the brain cells of the majority (but not all) of [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> auto's manual won't tell you if you have them, but that basically any >> car with an airbag does have them. "If your car is equipped with airbags it's also equipped with a black box." More here: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/black_boxes_states.html  SignatureFRH Absolutely correct! Tom snip. > It's the equivalent of the knee jerk response to various efforts to > limit individual rights, i.e., the statement goes, "If you didn't do > nothin' wrong, you don't care if they search your trailer" etc. If you > think about it, you need to care because the same statement could be > made in a totalitarian state and be as equally valid as in a state with > a Bill of Rights, Charter of Rights, EU Convention, etc. |
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