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Car Forum / Jeep / June 2007

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Sticky Lifters Killing Mileage on YJ? Noisier Than Hell!

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D Gavilanes - 27 Jun 2007 00:47 GMT
Help!  I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
freeway, except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14
mpg, now 9.8 mpg), and load exhaust noise in my manifold that sounds
like a cracked pipe (but is not).  I thought that I'd be changing out
the Banks TorqueTube header for the fourth time, but no, it's just my
exhaust is loud in my manifold, probably because my (ex) mechanic
indicates that #3 and #4 lifters are sticking and slow responding.  I
took the Jeep in because they advised me that a slow oil leak under my
engine was a rear main about to go out.  So when this engine noise added
itself to my recently poor mileage (which changing plugs did not
affect), I decided to throw some money at the YJ and get it fixed.  They
pulled the valve cover off, ID'd noisy and sticking lifters, and one
that tapped loud, only one in a while, (sounding like the engine wanted
to throw a rod), and decided that since the lifters and valves could not
be serviced from above, that they'd just button it up again (1 hr. labor
+ gasket), because they didn't want to pull the head and have it worked
on, since it might cause other problems.  Hmmm...

They went ahead and changed the rear main seals (another $350 or so
labor), upper and lower, buttoned everything up, and got it back to me
(after one day rental car, my wallet).  Next day, same oil leak.    Took
it back.  They thought that the oil pan gasket didn't seal, and resealed
it.  Gave it back to me.  Next day it leaked.  Took it back.

Gee, it wasn't the rear main seal after all.  Turns out, they tell me,
that the back of the block on my 4.0L has oil plugs, and that one or
both of those were leaking.  (They actually implied that the rear main
seal job wasn't necessary)  Have to pull my tranny back to get to those
plugs.  Another rental car, another day.  Get the bad news that my local
Jeep dealer service department jacked up my tranny filler tube when they
serviced it three and a half years ago, breaking off the tip up to the
O-ring, inserting it deeper into the bell housing, and Permatexing the
crap out of the junction.  Turns out my tranny dipstick sits 2.5" deeper
than it should for the past 3.5 years, now my tranny fluid looks like
old engine oil, and they must service my tranny, since they're already
there.  New filler tube and diptsick, new day of rental car, probably
another $350 labor.  Next day, turns out oil plugs are fine, no leak.
Small tranny leak "squirting" onto rear of engine block, looking like
engine oil leak.  Will they eat the rear main job and dicking around
with the oil plugs?  Yeah, right.

Finally got my YJ back.  Still sounds like sh!t (just like a badly
cracked manifold), noisy and embarrassing as hell, with a "put-put"
quality to the noise that makes me feel like I'm driving an Autopia car
at the happiest Place on Earth, still has crappy mileage, and is no
longer an enjoyable ride.  I just put new 33s and AR rims on it,
installed new Warn bumpers front and rear (including tire carrier custom
modified to hold trail rack), and looked forward to enjoying my YJ this
summer.  Since I got my YJ back from the shop two weeks ago, I put 28
miles on it driving it back home, and haven't moved it since.  Extreme
depression going on over here.  I'm now driving my '99 durango to and
from work, and with its 5.2L RAM V-8, I'm getting 13.5 to 15 mpg.  It's
now cheaper to drive my gas guzzling Durango than my straight six 4.0L
YJ.  When I finally got the bill, I was shocked.  They actually charged
me for everything.  Slightly over $1,250, as I recall.  I went from
feeling like I was in very trusted hands, to feeling like hands were in
my back pocket.  Funny, the owner had the conscience to call me on the
phone a few days later (since I work next door), and ask why I wasn't
driving the YJ.  I tried to be polite to him, but I wanted to chew him a
new MAck truck sized rear main seal.

So here's my dilemma.  Do I get have the valves pulled and sent out, or
will this really cause me more problems down the trail?  I take care of
this Jeep like you can't imagine, and the mechanic next door knows it.
It looks relatively new, but it's a '93 with about 189K on it.  Only
work ever done inside was a manifold cleanout before replacing it three
times.  Any advice here is appreciated.  I need to get this smogged and
registered in the next week or two.  Sorry to bring such a lame story to
the group.  I'm really bummed out.

Please e-mail me, since I don't visit here very often anymore (too many
good memories, and lately way too much crap about goats).  Thanks.

Regards,

Doug Gavilanes
Garden Grove, CA.
Scott in Baltimore - 27 Jun 2007 01:13 GMT
Do you have a catalytic converter? Is it clogged?

You may have other problems, but if the engine can't breathe, you don't go.
Doug Gavilanes - 27 Jun 2007 05:38 GMT
> Do you have a catalytic converter? Is it clogged?
>
> You may have other problems, but if the engine can't breathe, you don't go.
Yes, cat converter replaced 2 years ago to pass smog.  I've got plenty
of air going in, and a relatively new cat and Flowmaster.
SnoMan - 27 Jun 2007 12:34 GMT
>Yes, cat converter replaced 2 years ago to pass smog.  I've got plenty
>of air going in, and a relatively new cat and Flowmaster.

A few things here, did you ever do a compression test of engine? Also
headers and low restriction exhaust togheter with big tires and stock
tall gear can sometimes realy hurt MPG. At this stage of the game I
would do a compression check first and maybe a vacuum check too with a
gauge.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
d - 27 Jun 2007 03:27 GMT
>Help!  I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
>freeway, except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
>Doug Gavilanes
>Garden Grove, CA.

From some of the sounds you described, it may be more than a "sticky"
lifter. A very simple and cheap trick to fix the lifter is to change
your oil, but instead of using all motor oil, replace one quart with a
quart of automatic transmission fluid. I know a lot of people will
call me crazy, but it does work. My dad was a mechanic, and I worked
for a couple of mechanics as a teen. You could use some additive such
as Marvel Mystery Oil, but it will cost a bit more. Try it if you
want, and after about a week, the lifters should quiet down. I just
hope for your sake the "put-put" sound is not a burnt valve, which
could be checked with a compreesion test.

Good luck!
Darrell
dave AKA vwdoc1 - 27 Jun 2007 06:12 GMT
Hmmm
You took it to the "EXPERTS" and they told you what was leaking, how much it
would cost to repair it, did the repair but that was not the problem.
Should you have to pay for it?
JMHO but they made the mistake and I think they should not have charged you
full price!  Maybe a diagnostic fee but not the full price of their mistake.
If they said you needed the engine, you OKed it, the engine got installed
but the problems remained..............would you pay?

They should have cleaned up the areas and then examined things well BEFORE
starting any sort of repairs!

Was a vacuum gauge installed so that the sticky valves could be diagnosed?
I will assumed that a compression test would tell you little.
I will also assume that the valve springs are all in good shape.  I have
seen other vehicles with weak/broken valve springs.

And no you need to read and answer here!  lol

Find another shop!
JMHO
Signature

later,
dave AKA vwdoc1
88 XJ 4.0 auto

> Help!  I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the freeway,
> except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14 mpg, now 9.8
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
> Doug Gavilanes
> Garden Grove, CA.
Earle Horton - 27 Jun 2007 17:48 GMT
This is a good case for small claims court, or Judge Judy.  It looks as if
your current mechanic fixed a bunch of stuff that didn't need fixed, and
skipped stuff like the tranny leak that they should have seen.  You could
threaten to take them to small claims court, and get them to reduce your
bill.  You could argue that their incompetence increased the eventual cost
of repairs more than what was reasonable.  You could actually take them to
small claims, and who knows?  The judge will be a sympathetic car owner, eh?

It looks as if your Jeep dealer, who screwed up the tranny dipstick tube, is
different from your present mechanic.  There is no doubt a statute of
limitations on civil claims in your state, but that runs from the time you
discover the injury, not from the time of the injury.  If they are still in
business, you can sue them for part or all of the cost to put the dipstick
tube right.  You could argue that what they should have done, is install a
new dipstick tube, at their own expense, instead of the half-assed repair
they did do.

Wrt the rest, oil change to check out sticky lifter theory, compression test
to check out bad valve theory.  "Putt-putt" noise, bad gas mileage could
easily be bad ignition components.

Saludos cordiales,

Earle

> Hmmm
> You took it to the "EXPERTS" and they told you what was leaking, how much it
[quoted text clipped - 93 lines]
> > Doug Gavilanes
> > Garden Grove, CA.

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Mike Romain - 29 Jun 2007 20:05 GMT
You need a better mechanic, no real excuse for screwing up a big job
like that oil leak...

As others have mentioned, an oil change with an additive like 1 quart
ATF will clean out sludge and free up a sticky lifter and a compression
test will tell about a burned valve.

I agree with Earle about ignition parts maybe causing the bog and noise.
 How old is the distributor cap and rotor?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

> Help!  I have a YJ that is suffering from no more "pickup" on the
> freeway, except when really punched, terrible mileage (was 13.5 to 14
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> Doug Gavilanes
> Garden Grove, CA.
 
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