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Car Forum / Jeep / July 2007

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death wobble with a 99 tj sport

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Jamie Mello - 06 Jul 2007 16:32 GMT
I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift
and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks
now and it is getting old the death wobble comes at about 45 to 50 mph
after I go over a bump and it comes some times when on the highway
going about 45 + when you turn only right but very rarely it will
happen when you turn left so any help will very munch helpful.
Mike Romain - 06 Jul 2007 17:08 GMT
> I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift
> and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks
> now and it is getting old the death wobble comes at about 45 to 50 mph
> after I go over a bump and it comes some times when on the highway
> going about 45 + when you turn only right but very rarely it will
> happen when you turn left so any help will very munch helpful.

I would be checking out the track bar or it's relocating bracket
thinking it has come loose or it's bushings are broke.  The track bar
has a tie rod end on it too that can go bad.

Something is likely loose though.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Scott in Baltimore - 06 Jul 2007 17:34 GMT
>> I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift
>> and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Something is likely loose though.

Finally got around to replacing my steering dampener. It hasn't wobbled
since I got a new set of BFG KO's. The old SD was completely shot. Now
the steering wheel doesn't shake a few times over bumps like it used to.

Now for some track bar bushings to stop the clunk over bumps.

And, it seems it's not a crackhead in the 'hood. It's juveniles! Chased a
couple girls from the tennis courts last night that were trying to break
things. A quick drive around the 'hood found a bunch of juvies lighting
fireworks. Next time they show up, there won't be anything to steal except
a dead lighter with "ha ha, f*cker" written on it!     Bastards!!!
SnoMan - 06 Jul 2007 18:49 GMT
>>> I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift
>>> and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>fireworks. Next time they show up, there won't be anything to steal except
>a dead lighter with "ha ha, f*cker" written on it!     Bastards!!!

The "Death Wooble" is caused by a dynamically unstable front axle.
Many think is is because a a bad stabilizer or worn suspension
componates but all they are doing is letting you know that you front
end is unstable to begin with and that you are trying to brute force
hold it stable. This instablity is cause by the improper caster,
camber and toe in combo for your lift and tires. Many think that
alignment is same but it is not and factory specs are rarely okay with
you add a lift and more tire rolling resistance and tread width to the
combo. Usually when you lift it you do not set proper posistive caster
angle (the amount that top of axle pivots are tipped towards rear of
vehicle) and this results in a front axle that want to osciilate at
times. A new damper is just masking the real problem but many are
usually convinced otherwise.  Dynamic instablity is good for a fighter
aircraft because it makes it more resposive to controls but it is not
good for a front axle.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Scott in Baltimore - 06 Jul 2007 20:39 GMT
Mine is not lifted. I did replace the P205/75R15's with LT235/75R15's years ago.
My track bar bushings are shot and need replacement. I'll get to that, soon.

-Scott
'97 TJ SE
SnoMan - 07 Jul 2007 01:39 GMT
>Mine is not lifted. I did replace the P205/75R15's with LT235/75R15's years ago.
>My track bar bushings are shot and need replacement. I'll get to that, soon.
>
>-Scott
>'97 TJ SE

I used to align those axles many years ago when few even knew what a
4x4 was let alone how to align one.  I have seen many death wooble
cases that I was able to fix. With leaf springs it was easy to set
caster with shims but newer front ends are not so easy sometimes (4
link solid axle and such)  For camber you used to bend the housing
with a specail 25 ton clamp jack (very carefully too) before they
started to use shims behind spindles where they mounted to knuckle. I
have mixed feelings about those shims.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Jamie Mello - 07 Jul 2007 06:33 GMT
Thanks all of you that put in your 2 cents and will check out what you
guys said to try. How do you test your steering dampener to see if it
is bad or not? Thanks Jamie
SnoMan - 07 Jul 2007 12:48 GMT
>How do you test your steering dampener to see if it
>is bad or not? Thanks Jamie

If you can move the rod in and out of it easily by hand it is bad.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 16:27 GMT
Thanks you all of you the steering dampener is bad I order one
yesterday (skyjacker heavy duty one) Thanks again Jamie
Scott in Baltimore - 08 Jul 2007 16:30 GMT
> Thanks you all of you the steering dampener is bad I order one
> yesterday (skyjacker heavy duty one) Thanks again Jamie

I got the one from OME. It's nice and yellow! :)
Mike Romain - 08 Jul 2007 17:08 GMT
> Thanks you all of you the steering dampener is bad I order one
> yesterday (skyjacker heavy duty one) Thanks again Jamie

A new steering damper will only 'mask' a problem 'maybe'.

It will 'not' fix the slop that is allowing the death wobble.

If there wasn't something broken or about to break or really worn or
'really' out of adjustment, you wouldn't get the 'death wobble'.

I recently found out my steering damper is only an empty tube,
literally, and has been since I bought it way back in the 90's.  I
haven't had the death wobble since I rebuilt the front end with new
parts back in 2000.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 18:21 GMT
Well I replaced a lower control arm bracket on the front axle on the
right side a few weeks ago it did help some but the death wobble is
still there
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 18:22 GMT
just not as bad
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 18:36 GMT
oh and almost forgot back in Jan 07 I had I lost control and ran over
a cruve and hit a stop sign on a rainly day speeding and all 4 on my
wheels started sliding on the wet pavement just to try to make it to a
movie the reno 911 movie and hit no really damage just my bumper had a
small dent I plate fell off and my front rim was bent and the tire was
trash (big rip in it) and my aliment was way off you can see it in the
tire wear and the steering wheel is not right side up like it use to
be I do not know if this has anything to do with the death wobble or
not
Mike Romain - 08 Jul 2007 19:21 GMT
> oh and almost forgot back in Jan 07 I had I lost control and ran over
> a cruve and hit a stop sign on a rainly day speeding and all 4 on my
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> be I do not know if this has anything to do with the death wobble or
> not

Only a little....
<sarcasm>

You can use a tape measure to get the toe in back, but it really needs a
machine to check it all.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 21:32 GMT
Ok thanks I will take in dow to get looked at friday (that is when I
get paid) Thanks all of you and a specal Special thanks to Mike Romain
Peter Stolz - 12 Jul 2007 01:58 GMT
> oh and almost forgot back in Jan 07 I had I lost control and ran over
> a cruve and hit a stop sign on a rainly day speeding and all 4 on my
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> be I do not know if this has anything to do with the death wobble or
> not

Dude, that was incredibly hard to read without ANY sort of punctuation.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 12 Jul 2007 05:08 GMT
Mike, didn't have any problem, but then he has common sense.
       God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Dude, that was incredibly hard to read without ANY sort of punctuation.

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Shirley U. Jeste - 12 Jul 2007 17:41 GMT
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:08:57 -0700, L.W. (Large Wide) Hughes III wrote:

> Mike, didn't have any problem, but then he has common sense.

Still promoting illiteracy, I see.

And I'm not picking on your grammar; the thoughts(?) behind your words are
equally idiotic and haphazard.

Simply put, you are a dummy.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 12 Jul 2007 23:33 GMT
This from the biggest loser of them all! The jealous, really jealous, I
can't believe how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic
psychopath liar hiding in Vancouver via S0106000ea6ba70e7.vn.shawcable.net
24.86.24.251 intrepidator@shaw.ca who's only way to get attention is to make
a fool of its self. With an obsession with perverts and goats, where it
writes via remailers, and cross posts to other perverts to no one's
surprise. With extreme jealous ranting over my documents, possessions,
successes, manliness and fine, Southern California surfing body, beard, and
loving family. Committing forgery over many of my posts, proving I'm a
responsible American man. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican
Chiwawa with its senseless barking, me too, me too. You're even more senile
than I first thought. And the poor thing, you're too girlie to take
responsibility for yourself again, by signing your statement like a man.
    That really thinks the group's members are so stupid not to know it's
the same coward, posting over and over again using a schizophrenic
psychopath forged up names?
    You're not worth any more time when a cut and paste this same
paragraphs it fits so well!
    But, now worth a forwarding to: internet.help@shaw.ca,
security@shaw.ca, abuse@shaw.ca, internet.abuse@sjrb.ca, abuse@aioe.org,
admin@cox.net for forgery.
   Who said it also likes baby monkeys sucking their penis, like his buddy
posted on an auto picture group at:
news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com
    I thought this traitor's attacks were just over personal disagreements,
but in reality these attacks stemming from my love of God and America on
Independents Week, I realized you are actually attacking my country, and
that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the
United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just
too cowardly and stupid to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave
it, so keep the f*ck out!
   This dummy can buy and sell you, but I would touch a worthless scumbag
traitor like you.
       God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Still promoting illiteracy, I see.
>
> And I'm not picking on your grammar; the thoughts(?) behind your words are
> equally idiotic and haphazard.
>
> Simply put, you are a dummy.

Signature

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Shirley U. Jeste - 13 Jul 2007 00:40 GMT
> This dummy can buy and sell you

Well at least you recognize that you are a dummy. It's a start.

However, you couldn't buy one of my used toenail fragments.

Dummy.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 00:51 GMT
This from the biggest loser of them all! The jealous, really jealous, I
can't believe how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic
psychopath liar hiding in Vancouver via S0106000ea6ba70e7.vn.shawcable.net
24.86.24.251 intrepidator@shaw.ca who's only way to get attention is to make
a fool of its self. With an obsession with perverts and goats, where it
writes via remailers, and cross posts to other perverts to no one's
surprise. With extreme jealous ranting over my documents, possessions,
successes, manliness and fine, Southern California surfing body, beard, and
loving family. Committing forgery over many of my posts, proving I'm a
responsible American man. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican
Chiwawa with its senseless barking, me too, me too. You're even more senile
than I first thought. And the poor thing, you're too girlie to take
responsibility for yourself again, by signing your statement like a man.
    That really thinks the group's members are so stupid not to know it's
the same coward, posting over and over again using a schizophrenic
psychopath forged up names?
    You're not worth any more time when a cut and paste this same
paragraphs it fits so well!
    But, now worth a forwarding to: internet.help@shaw.ca,
security@shaw.ca, abuse@shaw.ca, internet.abuse@sjrb.ca, abuse@aioe.org,
admin@cox.net for forgery.
   Who said it also likes baby monkeys sucking their penis, like his buddy
posted on an auto picture group at:
news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com
    I thought this traitor's attacks were just over personal disagreements,
but in reality these attacks stemming from my love of God and America on
Independents Week, I realized you are actually attacking my country, and
that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the
United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just
too cowardly and stupid to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave
it, so keep the f*ck out!
   I never said I was smart, just that I was required to take the ninety
day wonder tests in advanced training, which I learned means I have at least
a hundred and ten Intelligence Quotient as tested on the induction placement
exams. Something as a traitor you never have never taken.
   And I can buy and sell your worthless body, all you have is a POS
Intrepid.
       God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> > This dummy can buy and sell you
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Dummy.

Signature

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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 04:10 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:51:48 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>     This from the biggest loser of them all! The jealous, really jealous, I
>can't believe how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>        God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

How Psychopaths View Their World.

Most psychopaths are very arrogant and cocky. However, when charming a
potential victim, they say all the "right" things and make you believe
they are kind-hearted souls; not always, but often enough. The truth
is, psychopaths are not altruistic and do not really care about
friendships or ties. Guggenbuhl-Craig states that they are very
talented at appearing much more humble than the average person, but
are hardly so. Some are also able to feign concern about the lower
classes and profess that they are on the side of the underdog, the
poor, and so forth. A psychopath may claim, for instance (if he's from
a low socio-economic class), that he dislikes rich people intensely,
but at the same time, he will inwardly yearn and envy what they
have. He is like the narcissist, desiring to reflect a false image of
himself through his possessions. Among his possessions are included
human beings: girlfriends, wives, and children. Some psychopaths can
even very fond of animals (contrary to the common viewpoint), but
still view them as objects in relation to themselves.
The psychopath is filled with greed inside, relating to the world
through power, even though, as I said, on the outside he can claim to
be on the side of the disenfranchised or the downtrodden. I knew one
who liked to repeat phrases such as "they have to stop keeping my
brothers down" but he didn't mean a word of it. He was actually
aracist. The psychopath can also often identify himself as a
revolutionary. On the flip side, the psychopath also often paints a
picture of himself as the downcast anti-hero (his "own worst enemy
type") and some like to see themselves as lonewolves.
The psychopath may even claim he is sensitive and profound, but inside
he is nothing but emptiness and greed. Whether or not the psychopath
is aware of his behaviour is something that is often debated. I do
believe that psychopaths usually know exactly what they are doing,
although others suggest that psychopaths are born, not made.
I believe that psychopathy is primarily genetic. A son with a
psychopathic father often will be psychopathic as well, especially if
the father was abusive and/or abandoned the family as well.
As mentioned, psychopaths often claim to settle for second best (being
their own worst enemy) and then think they deserve better. This may be
manifested in the way they seek power -- either through money (i.e.
material goods), manipulation and/or treating people as objects.
By enacting such behaviours, the psychopath is also trying to "get
back" at society and the world, in order to gain retribution. They
will spend their entire lives doing this, whether they are rich or
poor, or whatever their social background may be, although studies
have shown that they often come from an impoverished or lower socio-
economic background and/or social status. (In one of Dr.Donald Black's
studies, many of the men were "overwhelmingly white, blue collar,
lower middle class, and married, and most had not graduated from high
school." [Black, 14]). (Let me add, despite Dr. Blacks' studies,
psychopaths can still exist in any social class. Do not be misled). I
also wanted to point out that I will be using "he" and "him" for the
term psychopath throughout this website; let it not be forgotten, yes,
female psychopaths exist as well; however, according to the Sixth
Edition of Abnormal Behavior, printed in 2000 by three male
professors, David, Derald, and Stanley Sue, the rates do differ by
gender. Included in their excellent text is a report by the The
American Psychiatric Association that the general estimate is 3% for
men, and less than 1% in women [Personality Disorders and Impulse
Control Disorders, 238].
What is very disturbing about psychopaths, besides their sense of
special entitlement, is the complete lack of empathy for normal
people, for "antisocials (psychopaths) seem to lack a conscience,
feeling little or no empathy for the people whose lives
they touch...the antisocial effortlessly resists all regulation,
unable to see beyond his self-interest or to adopt standards of right
versus wrong." [Black, XIII].
Not all psychopath are uneducated low-class misfits. Some of them are
quite handsome and have good careers, and use this all the more to
their benefit. Take a look at Ted Bundy; my friend's mother once went
on a double-date with him and claimed he was the nicest person. His
mother said he was the "best son any mother could have." Bundy was
also apparently quite good-looking, which made him even more
dangerous. So not all psychopaths are derelict, low-class, high school
dropouts, there are many who also work in professional occupations;
the fact remains that there are just more psychopaths who come from
impoverished backgrounds than not.
Also, not all psychopaths are calm, cool, and collected. Some of them
appear strange or odd, and their behaviour can be eccentric or
unusual. I believe this is what can confuse victims most often.
Psychopaths often appear [see pictures here]: intense
and "electrifying". Do not be misled if someone appears harmless,
"foolish", or seems offbeat. An "angelic" visage can also often fool
people. Just picture John Wayne Gacy in his "clown costume" as he
entertained children as one example.
Another example which someone on the "Victims of Psychopathy" board
came up with was Bill Clinton and his "goofy" yet loveable demeanour
(so is Clinton really a psychopath? Many believe he is).
A psychopath (he was diagnosed anti-social) I knew used the harmless
cover-up quite well. Everyone thought he was very funny. I did too, at
first. Then, little by little, I realised there was something "not
right" about him. At first his seemingly harmless pranks were
charming, but after a while, he became more of a nuisance and
disrupted our work environment, which created havoc and tension
between employees. I've learned, a psychopath can use these disguises
for his own hidden purpose.Regardless of race, social class, or
occupation, however, the psychopath is dangerous to society, for "the
nature of ASP (psychopathy) implies that it wreaks
more havoc on society than most other mental illnesses do, since the
disorder primarily involves reactions against the social environment
that drag other people into its destructive web...The despair and
anxiety wrought by antisocials (psychopaths) tragically affects
families and communities, leaving deep physical and
emotional scars..." [Black, 5].
There is much to the psychopathic personality which is baffling and
disturbing. 1 in about 25-30 people are psychopathic (also known as
sociopaths or anti-social -- the correct title being psychopath.)
Since the majority or them are men, I wrote this site in part, to warn
women about the dangers, especially women online, which I believe
is a favourite "new medium" which appeals to psychopaths. I have
personal experience with this subject as well. This is because
"antisocials (psychopaths) are not just characters in our fictional or
true-life entertainments. They are family members, friends,
co-workers, neighbors, or strangers we may encounter every day."
[Black, 10]. Pamela Jayne, M.A., writes that "30% of men are
sociopathic." If about every three out of ten men I may meet are
psychopathic, I would assume this is not something to take lightly.
According to these statistics, that would mean every three out of ten
men and maybe every one out of ten females. The truth is, we do not
really know exactly how many individuals are psychopathic; however,
there seems to be a rise in the prevalence of psychopathy and that is
why some claim that numbers are higher. Dr. Black claims that
psychopathy leads right behind depression, along with schizophrenia
and borderline personality disorder, which is an astounding fact.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 04:29 GMT
There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact
that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions,
successes, manliness, Super Southern California surfing body, family, and
name. What a jealous little draft dodging senile coward from Navarre,
Florida, that of course, doesn't have a DD214, it had to have served our
country for that. Who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its
self, with its goat obsession/fetish, where it writes via remailers, to no
one's surprise. Like when the other kids laughed at its attempt to use foul
language in elementary school play grounds, but its just gibberish. Too
senile to remember what he last wrote, like the rest of Florida. You remind
me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking
it's rabid head off, me too, me too. And is too afraid to use your name,
address, or even sign your statement as any man would, totally worthless!
    Posted pornography at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com
As a member of the moral majority I know what porn is when I see it!
    But now worth the time to forward this low life to: abuse@mchsi.com,
fraud@mchsi.com, fraud@4AX.COM, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net,
abuse@teranews.com for forgery.
   I thought your attacks were just personal disagreements, but with
passing of my country's Independents Day, I realize these attacks are
stemming from my love of God and America, and that's what you've been doing
all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with
each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly  to be a terrorist.
It's America, love it, or leave it, so get the f*ck out!
       God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous
senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>

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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 05:52 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:29:47 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>     There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact
>that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous
>senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 06:04 GMT
><Wrote nothing as usual.>

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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 07:12 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:04:36 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>><Wrote nothing as usual.>

Eight Ways to Spot Emotional Manipulation

1.There is no use in trying to be honest with an emotional
manipulator. You make a statement and it will be turned around.
Example: I am really angry that you forgot my birthday. Response - "It
makes me feel sad that you would think I would forget your birthday, I
should have told you of the great personal stress I am facing at the
moment - but you see I didn’t want to trouble you. You are right I
should have put all this pain (don’t be surprised to see real tears at
this point) aside and focused on your birthday. Sorry." Even as you
are hearing the words you get the creeped out sensation that they
really do NOT mean they are sorry at all - but since they’ve said the
words you’re pretty much left with nothing more to say. Either that or
you suddenly find yourself babysitting their angst!! Under all
circumstances if you feel this angle is being played - don’t
capitulate! Do not care take - do not accept an apology that feels
like bullshit. If it feels like bullshit - it probably is. Rule number
one - if dealing with an emotional blackmailer TRUST your gut. TRUST
your senses. Once an emotional manipulator finds a successful maneuver
- it’s added to their hit list and you’ll be fed a steady diet of this
sh.t.

2.An emotional manipulator is the picture of a willing helper. If you
ask them to do something they will almost always agree - that is IF
they didn’t volunteer to do it first. Then when you say, "ok thanks" -
they make a bunch of heavy sighs, or other non verbal signs that let
you know they don’t really want to do whatever said thing happens to
be. When you tell them it doesn’t seem like they want to do whatever -
they will turn it around and try to make it seem like OF COURSE they
wanted to and how unreasonable you are. This is a form of crazy making
- which is something emotional manipulators are very good at. Rule
number two - If an emotional manipulator said YES - make them
accountable for it. Do NOT buy into the sighs and subtleties - if they
don’t want to do it - make them tell you it up front - or just put on
the walk-man headphones and run a bath and leave them to their
theater.

3.Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not
say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you
should start keeping a log of what’s been said because you are
beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional
manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things
around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can
lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and they’ll call it
white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very
senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can
literally alter your sense of reality. WARNING: Emotional Manipulation
is VERY Dangerous! It is very disconcerting for an emotional
manipulator if you begin carrying a pad of paper and a pen and making
notations during conversations. Feel free to let them know you just
are feeling so "forgetful" these days that you want to record their
words for posterity’s sake. The damndest thing about this is that
having to do such a thing is a clear example for why you should be
seriously thinking about removing yourself from range in the first
place. If you’re toting a notebook to safeguard yourself - that ol’
bullshit meter should be flashing steady by now!

4.Guilt. Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers. They can
make you feel guilty for speaking up or not speaking up, for being
emotional or not being emotional enough, for giving and caring, or for
not giving and caring enough. Any thing is fair game and open to guilt
with an emotional manipulator. Emotional manipulators seldom express
their needs or desires openly - they get what they want through
emotional manipulation. Guilt is not the only form of this but it is a
potent one. Most of us are pretty conditioned to do whatever is
necessary to reduce our feelings of guilt. Another powerful emotion
that is used is sympathy. An emotional manipulator is a great victim.
They inspire a profound sense of needing to support, care for and
nurture. Emotional Manipulators seldom fight their own fights or do
their own dirty work. The crazy thing is that when you do it for them
(which they will never ask directly for), they may just turn around
and say they certainly didn’t want or expect you to do anything! Try
to make a point of not fighting other people’s battles, or doing their
dirty work for them. A great line is "I have every confidence in your
ability to work this out on your own" - check out the response and
note the bullshit meter once again.

5.Emotional manipulators fight dirty. They don’t deal with things
directly. They will talk around behind your back and eventually put
others in the position of telling you what they would not say
themselves. They are passive aggressive, meaning they find subtle ways
of letting you know they are not happy little campers. They’ll tell
you what they think you want to hear and then do a bunch of j.rk off
sh.t to undermine it. Example: "Of course I want you to go back to
school honey and you know I’ll support you." Then exam night you are
sitting at the table and poker buddies show up, the kids are crying
the t.v. blasting and the dog needs walking - all the while "Sweetie"
is sitting on their a.s looking at you blankly. Dare you call them on
such behavior you are likely to hear, "well you can’t expect life to
just stop because you have an exam can you honey?" Cry, scream or
choke ‘em - only the last will have any long-term benefits and it’ll
probably wind your butt in jail.

6.If you have a headache an emotional manipulator will have a brain
tumor! No matter what your situation is the emotional manipulator has
probably been there or is there now - but only ten times worse. It’s
hard after a period of time to feel emotionally connected to an
emotional manipulator because they have a way of de-railing
conversations and putting the spotlight back on themselves. If you
call them on this behavior they will likely become deeply wounded or
very petulant and call you selfish - or claim that it is you who are
always in the spotlight. The thing is that even tho you know this is
not the case you are left with the impossible task of proving it.
Don’t bother - TRUST your gut and walk away!

7.Emotional manipulators somehow have the ability to impact the
emotional climate of those around them. When an emotional manipulator
is sad or angry the very room thrums with it - it brings a deep
instinctual response to find someway to equalize the emotional climate
and the quickest route is by making the emotional manipulator feel
better - fixing whatever is broken for them. Stick with this type of
loser for too long and you will be so enmeshed and co-dependent you
will forget you even have needs - let alone that you have just as much
right to have your needs met.

8.Emotional manipulators have no sense of accountability. They take no
responsibility for themselves or their behavior - it is always about
what everyone else has "done to them". One of the easiest ways to spot
an emotional manipulator is that they often attempt to establish
intimacy through the early sharing of deeply personal information that
is generally of the "hook-you-in-and-make-you-sorry-for-me" variety.
Initially you may perceive this type of person as very sensitive,
emotionally open and maybe a little vulnerable. Believe me when I say
that an emotional manipulator is about as vulnerable as a rabid pit
bull, and there will always be a problem or a crisis to overcome.
24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 04:10 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:33:47 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>     This from the biggest loser of them all! The jealous, really jealous, I
>can't believe how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>        God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

How Psychopaths View Their World.

Most psychopaths are very arrogant and cocky. However, when charming a
potential victim, they say all the "right" things and make you believe
they are kind-hearted souls; not always, but often enough. The truth
is, psychopaths are not altruistic and do not really care about
friendships or ties. Guggenbuhl-Craig states that they are very
talented at appearing much more humble than the average person, but
are hardly so. Some are also able to feign concern about the lower
classes and profess that they are on the side of the underdog, the
poor, and so forth. A psychopath may claim, for instance (if he's from
a low socio-economic class), that he dislikes rich people intensely,
but at the same time, he will inwardly yearn and envy what they
have. He is like the narcissist, desiring to reflect a false image of
himself through his possessions. Among his possessions are included
human beings: girlfriends, wives, and children. Some psychopaths can
even very fond of animals (contrary to the common viewpoint), but
still view them as objects in relation to themselves.
The psychopath is filled with greed inside, relating to the world
through power, even though, as I said, on the outside he can claim to
be on the side of the disenfranchised or the downtrodden. I knew one
who liked to repeat phrases such as "they have to stop keeping my
brothers down" but he didn't mean a word of it. He was actually
aracist. The psychopath can also often identify himself as a
revolutionary. On the flip side, the psychopath also often paints a
picture of himself as the downcast anti-hero (his "own worst enemy
type") and some like to see themselves as lonewolves.
The psychopath may even claim he is sensitive and profound, but inside
he is nothing but emptiness and greed. Whether or not the psychopath
is aware of his behaviour is something that is often debated. I do
believe that psychopaths usually know exactly what they are doing,
although others suggest that psychopaths are born, not made.
I believe that psychopathy is primarily genetic. A son with a
psychopathic father often will be psychopathic as well, especially if
the father was abusive and/or abandoned the family as well.
As mentioned, psychopaths often claim to settle for second best (being
their own worst enemy) and then think they deserve better. This may be
manifested in the way they seek power -- either through money (i.e.
material goods), manipulation and/or treating people as objects.
By enacting such behaviours, the psychopath is also trying to "get
back" at society and the world, in order to gain retribution. They
will spend their entire lives doing this, whether they are rich or
poor, or whatever their social background may be, although studies
have shown that they often come from an impoverished or lower socio-
economic background and/or social status. (In one of Dr.Donald Black's
studies, many of the men were "overwhelmingly white, blue collar,
lower middle class, and married, and most had not graduated from high
school." [Black, 14]). (Let me add, despite Dr. Blacks' studies,
psychopaths can still exist in any social class. Do not be misled). I
also wanted to point out that I will be using "he" and "him" for the
term psychopath throughout this website; let it not be forgotten, yes,
female psychopaths exist as well; however, according to the Sixth
Edition of Abnormal Behavior, printed in 2000 by three male
professors, David, Derald, and Stanley Sue, the rates do differ by
gender. Included in their excellent text is a report by the The
American Psychiatric Association that the general estimate is 3% for
men, and less than 1% in women [Personality Disorders and Impulse
Control Disorders, 238].
What is very disturbing about psychopaths, besides their sense of
special entitlement, is the complete lack of empathy for normal
people, for "antisocials (psychopaths) seem to lack a conscience,
feeling little or no empathy for the people whose lives
they touch...the antisocial effortlessly resists all regulation,
unable to see beyond his self-interest or to adopt standards of right
versus wrong." [Black, XIII].
Not all psychopath are uneducated low-class misfits. Some of them are
quite handsome and have good careers, and use this all the more to
their benefit. Take a look at Ted Bundy; my friend's mother once went
on a double-date with him and claimed he was the nicest person. His
mother said he was the "best son any mother could have." Bundy was
also apparently quite good-looking, which made him even more
dangerous. So not all psychopaths are derelict, low-class, high school
dropouts, there are many who also work in professional occupations;
the fact remains that there are just more psychopaths who come from
impoverished backgrounds than not.
Also, not all psychopaths are calm, cool, and collected. Some of them
appear strange or odd, and their behaviour can be eccentric or
unusual. I believe this is what can confuse victims most often.
Psychopaths often appear [see pictures here]: intense
and "electrifying". Do not be misled if someone appears harmless,
"foolish", or seems offbeat. An "angelic" visage can also often fool
people. Just picture John Wayne Gacy in his "clown costume" as he
entertained children as one example.
Another example which someone on the "Victims of Psychopathy" board
came up with was Bill Clinton and his "goofy" yet loveable demeanour
(so is Clinton really a psychopath? Many believe he is).
A psychopath (he was diagnosed anti-social) I knew used the harmless
cover-up quite well. Everyone thought he was very funny. I did too, at
first. Then, little by little, I realised there was something "not
right" about him. At first his seemingly harmless pranks were
charming, but after a while, he became more of a nuisance and
disrupted our work environment, which created havoc and tension
between employees. I've learned, a psychopath can use these disguises
for his own hidden purpose.Regardless of race, social class, or
occupation, however, the psychopath is dangerous to society, for "the
nature of ASP (psychopathy) implies that it wreaks
more havoc on society than most other mental illnesses do, since the
disorder primarily involves reactions against the social environment
that drag other people into its destructive web...The despair and
anxiety wrought by antisocials (psychopaths) tragically affects
families and communities, leaving deep physical and
emotional scars..." [Black, 5].
There is much to the psychopathic personality which is baffling and
disturbing. 1 in about 25-30 people are psychopathic (also known as
sociopaths or anti-social -- the correct title being psychopath.)
Since the majority or them are men, I wrote this site in part, to warn
women about the dangers, especially women online, which I believe
is a favourite "new medium" which appeals to psychopaths. I have
personal experience with this subject as well. This is because
"antisocials (psychopaths) are not just characters in our fictional or
true-life entertainments. They are family members, friends,
co-workers, neighbors, or strangers we may encounter every day."
[Black, 10]. Pamela Jayne, M.A., writes that "30% of men are
sociopathic." If about every three out of ten men I may meet are
psychopathic, I would assume this is not something to take lightly.
According to these statistics, that would mean every three out of ten
men and maybe every one out of ten females. The truth is, we do not
really know exactly how many individuals are psychopathic; however,
there seems to be a rise in the prevalence of psychopathy and that is
why some claim that numbers are higher. Dr. Black claims that
psychopathy leads right behind depression, along with schizophrenia
and borderline personality disorder, which is an astounding fact.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 04:33 GMT
There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact
that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions,
successes, manliness, Super Southern California surfing body, family, and
name. What a jealous little draft dodging senile coward from Navarre,
Florida, that of course, doesn't have a DD214, it had to have served our
country for that. Who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its
self, with its goat obsession/fetish, where it writes via remailers, to no
one's surprise. Like when the other kids laughed at its attempt to use foul
language in elementary school play grounds, but its just gibberish. Too
senile to remember what he last wrote, like the rest of Florida. You remind
me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking
it's rabid head off, me too, me too. And is too afraid to use your name,
address, or even sign your statement as any man would, totally worthless!
    Posted pornography at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com
As a member of the moral majority I know what porn is when I see it!
    But now worth the time to forward this low life to: abuse@mchsi.com,
fraud@mchsi.com, fraud@4AX.COM, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net,
abuse@teranews.com for forgery.
   I thought your attacks were just personal disagreements, but with
passing of my country's Independents Day, I realize these attacks are
stemming from my love of God and America, and that's what you've been doing
all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with
each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly  to be a terrorist.
It's America, love it, or leave it, so get the f*ck out!
       God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous
senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>

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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 05:52 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:33:45 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>     There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact
>that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous
>senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 06:05 GMT
> <Wrote nothing as usual.>

Signature

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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 07:12 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:05:00 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>> <Wrote nothing as usual.>

Eight Ways to Spot Emotional Manipulation

1.There is no use in trying to be honest with an emotional
manipulator. You make a statement and it will be turned around.
Example: I am really angry that you forgot my birthday. Response - "It
makes me feel sad that you would think I would forget your birthday, I
should have told you of the great personal stress I am facing at the
moment - but you see I didn’t want to trouble you. You are right I
should have put all this pain (don’t be surprised to see real tears at
this point) aside and focused on your birthday. Sorry." Even as you
are hearing the words you get the creeped out sensation that they
really do NOT mean they are sorry at all - but since they’ve said the
words you’re pretty much left with nothing more to say. Either that or
you suddenly find yourself babysitting their angst!! Under all
circumstances if you feel this angle is being played - don’t
capitulate! Do not care take - do not accept an apology that feels
like bullshit. If it feels like bullshit - it probably is. Rule number
one - if dealing with an emotional blackmailer TRUST your gut. TRUST
your senses. Once an emotional manipulator finds a successful maneuver
- it’s added to their hit list and you’ll be fed a steady diet of this
sh.t.

2.An emotional manipulator is the picture of a willing helper. If you
ask them to do something they will almost always agree - that is IF
they didn’t volunteer to do it first. Then when you say, "ok thanks" -
they make a bunch of heavy sighs, or other non verbal signs that let
you know they don’t really want to do whatever said thing happens to
be. When you tell them it doesn’t seem like they want to do whatever -
they will turn it around and try to make it seem like OF COURSE they
wanted to and how unreasonable you are. This is a form of crazy making
- which is something emotional manipulators are very good at. Rule
number two - If an emotional manipulator said YES - make them
accountable for it. Do NOT buy into the sighs and subtleties - if they
don’t want to do it - make them tell you it up front - or just put on
the walk-man headphones and run a bath and leave them to their
theater.

3.Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not
say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you
should start keeping a log of what’s been said because you are
beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional
manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things
around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can
lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and they’ll call it
white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very
senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can
literally alter your sense of reality. WARNING: Emotional Manipulation
is VERY Dangerous! It is very disconcerting for an emotional
manipulator if you begin carrying a pad of paper and a pen and making
notations during conversations. Feel free to let them know you just
are feeling so "forgetful" these days that you want to record their
words for posterity’s sake. The damndest thing about this is that
having to do such a thing is a clear example for why you should be
seriously thinking about removing yourself from range in the first
place. If you’re toting a notebook to safeguard yourself - that ol’
bullshit meter should be flashing steady by now!

4.Guilt. Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers. They can
make you feel guilty for speaking up or not speaking up, for being
emotional or not being emotional enough, for giving and caring, or for
not giving and caring enough. Any thing is fair game and open to guilt
with an emotional manipulator. Emotional manipulators seldom express
their needs or desires openly - they get what they want through
emotional manipulation. Guilt is not the only form of this but it is a
potent one. Most of us are pretty conditioned to do whatever is
necessary to reduce our feelings of guilt. Another powerful emotion
that is used is sympathy. An emotional manipulator is a great victim.
They inspire a profound sense of needing to support, care for and
nurture. Emotional Manipulators seldom fight their own fights or do
their own dirty work. The crazy thing is that when you do it for them
(which they will never ask directly for), they may just turn around
and say they certainly didn’t want or expect you to do anything! Try
to make a point of not fighting other people’s battles, or doing their
dirty work for them. A great line is "I have every confidence in your
ability to work this out on your own" - check out the response and
note the bullshit meter once again.

5.Emotional manipulators fight dirty. They don’t deal with things
directly. They will talk around behind your back and eventually put
others in the position of telling you what they would not say
themselves. They are passive aggressive, meaning they find subtle ways
of letting you know they are not happy little campers. They’ll tell
you what they think you want to hear and then do a bunch of j.rk off
sh.t to undermine it. Example: "Of course I want you to go back to
school honey and you know I’ll support you." Then exam night you are
sitting at the table and poker buddies show up, the kids are crying
the t.v. blasting and the dog needs walking - all the while "Sweetie"
is sitting on their a.s looking at you blankly. Dare you call them on
such behavior you are likely to hear, "well you can’t expect life to
just stop because you have an exam can you honey?" Cry, scream or
choke ‘em - only the last will have any long-term benefits and it’ll
probably wind your butt in jail.

6.If you have a headache an emotional manipulator will have a brain
tumor! No matter what your situation is the emotional manipulator has
probably been there or is there now - but only ten times worse. It’s
hard after a period of time to feel emotionally connected to an
emotional manipulator because they have a way of de-railing
conversations and putting the spotlight back on themselves. If you
call them on this behavior they will likely become deeply wounded or
very petulant and call you selfish - or claim that it is you who are
always in the spotlight. The thing is that even tho you know this is
not the case you are left with the impossible task of proving it.
Don’t bother - TRUST your gut and walk away!

7.Emotional manipulators somehow have the ability to impact the
emotional climate of those around them. When an emotional manipulator
is sad or angry the very room thrums with it - it brings a deep
instinctual response to find someway to equalize the emotional climate
and the quickest route is by making the emotional manipulator feel
better - fixing whatever is broken for them. Stick with this type of
loser for too long and you will be so enmeshed and co-dependent you
will forget you even have needs - let alone that you have just as much
right to have your needs met.

8.Emotional manipulators have no sense of accountability. They take no
responsibility for themselves or their behavior - it is always about
what everyone else has "done to them". One of the easiest ways to spot
an emotional manipulator is that they often attempt to establish
intimacy through the early sharing of deeply personal information that
is generally of the "hook-you-in-and-make-you-sorry-for-me" variety.
Initially you may perceive this type of person as very sensitive,
emotionally open and maybe a little vulnerable. Believe me when I say
that an emotional manipulator is about as vulnerable as a rabid pit
bull, and there will always be a problem or a crisis to overcome.
Peter Stolz - 12 Jul 2007 20:19 GMT
First of all, you don't know whether or not Mike had a problem with it;  he
was just polite (or didn't care) enough not to address it.  It may have
taken Mike (or any reader) a lot longer to read and understand than it
should have if the post in question had written with the slightest bit of
effort.  I just tried to make the point in the hopes that next time the
poster would use a period or comma here and there.  Second, what in my post
leads you to infer that I do NOT have any common sense?  The lack of
punctuation in that post, and my opinion that that made it more difficult to
read has nothing to do with whether or not I have any common sense.  Your
post is, therefore, illogical.

>    Mike, didn't have any problem, but then he has common sense.
>        God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
>
>> Dude, that was incredibly hard to read without ANY sort of punctuation.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 12 Jul 2007 23:36 GMT
The point you failed to recognize, is the Poster came here for help, not
a lesson in grammar.
       God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> First of all, you don't know whether or not Mike had a problem with it;  he
> was just polite (or didn't care) enough not to address it.  It may have
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> read has nothing to do with whether or not I have any common sense.  Your
> post is, therefore, illogical.

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Peter Stolz - 13 Jul 2007 00:23 GMT
Hi Bill,
I fully recognize that he came here for help, and I was not trying to give
him a lesson in grammar.  If I had wanted to do that, my reply would have
been much longer.  I understand that this group is informal, and I don't
expect people to be anywhere near perfect, I for one am certainly not.  My
point is that the easier it is for his posts to be read, the more likely it
is that people who can help him will read it and offer their help.
Pete

>    The point you failed to recognize, is the Poster came here for help,
> not
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>> read has nothing to do with whether or not I have any common sense.  Your
>> post is, therefore, illogical.
24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 04:10 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:36:53 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>    The point you failed to recognize, is the Poster came here for help, not
>a lesson in grammar.
>        God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

How Psychopaths View Their World.

Most psychopaths are very arrogant and cocky. However, when charming a
potential victim, they say all the "right" things and make you believe
they are kind-hearted souls; not always, but often enough. The truth
is, psychopaths are not altruistic and do not really care about
friendships or ties. Guggenbuhl-Craig states that they are very
talented at appearing much more humble than the average person, but
are hardly so. Some are also able to feign concern about the lower
classes and profess that they are on the side of the underdog, the
poor, and so forth. A psychopath may claim, for instance (if he's from
a low socio-economic class), that he dislikes rich people intensely,
but at the same time, he will inwardly yearn and envy what they
have. He is like the narcissist, desiring to reflect a false image of
himself through his possessions. Among his possessions are included
human beings: girlfriends, wives, and children. Some psychopaths can
even very fond of animals (contrary to the common viewpoint), but
still view them as objects in relation to themselves.
The psychopath is filled with greed inside, relating to the world
through power, even though, as I said, on the outside he can claim to
be on the side of the disenfranchised or the downtrodden. I knew one
who liked to repeat phrases such as "they have to stop keeping my
brothers down" but he didn't mean a word of it. He was actually
aracist. The psychopath can also often identify himself as a
revolutionary. On the flip side, the psychopath also often paints a
picture of himself as the downcast anti-hero (his "own worst enemy
type") and some like to see themselves as lonewolves.
The psychopath may even claim he is sensitive and profound, but inside
he is nothing but emptiness and greed. Whether or not the psychopath
is aware of his behaviour is something that is often debated. I do
believe that psychopaths usually know exactly what they are doing,
although others suggest that psychopaths are born, not made.
I believe that psychopathy is primarily genetic. A son with a
psychopathic father often will be psychopathic as well, especially if
the father was abusive and/or abandoned the family as well.
As mentioned, psychopaths often claim to settle for second best (being
their own worst enemy) and then think they deserve better. This may be
manifested in the way they seek power -- either through money (i.e.
material goods), manipulation and/or treating people as objects.
By enacting such behaviours, the psychopath is also trying to "get
back" at society and the world, in order to gain retribution. They
will spend their entire lives doing this, whether they are rich or
poor, or whatever their social background may be, although studies
have shown that they often come from an impoverished or lower socio-
economic background and/or social status. (In one of Dr.Donald Black's
studies, many of the men were "overwhelmingly white, blue collar,
lower middle class, and married, and most had not graduated from high
school." [Black, 14]). (Let me add, despite Dr. Blacks' studies,
psychopaths can still exist in any social class. Do not be misled). I
also wanted to point out that I will be using "he" and "him" for the
term psychopath throughout this website; let it not be forgotten, yes,
female psychopaths exist as well; however, according to the Sixth
Edition of Abnormal Behavior, printed in 2000 by three male
professors, David, Derald, and Stanley Sue, the rates do differ by
gender. Included in their excellent text is a report by the The
American Psychiatric Association that the general estimate is 3% for
men, and less than 1% in women [Personality Disorders and Impulse
Control Disorders, 238].
What is very disturbing about psychopaths, besides their sense of
special entitlement, is the complete lack of empathy for normal
people, for "antisocials (psychopaths) seem to lack a conscience,
feeling little or no empathy for the people whose lives
they touch...the antisocial effortlessly resists all regulation,
unable to see beyond his self-interest or to adopt standards of right
versus wrong." [Black, XIII].
Not all psychopath are uneducated low-class misfits. Some of them are
quite handsome and have good careers, and use this all the more to
their benefit. Take a look at Ted Bundy; my friend's mother once went
on a double-date with him and claimed he was the nicest person. His
mother said he was the "best son any mother could have." Bundy was
also apparently quite good-looking, which made him even more
dangerous. So not all psychopaths are derelict, low-class, high school
dropouts, there are many who also work in professional occupations;
the fact remains that there are just more psychopaths who come from
impoverished backgrounds than not.
Also, not all psychopaths are calm, cool, and collected. Some of them
appear strange or odd, and their behaviour can be eccentric or
unusual. I believe this is what can confuse victims most often.
Psychopaths often appear [see pictures here]: intense
and "electrifying". Do not be misled if someone appears harmless,
"foolish", or seems offbeat. An "angelic" visage can also often fool
people. Just picture John Wayne Gacy in his "clown costume" as he
entertained children as one example.
Another example which someone on the "Victims of Psychopathy" board
came up with was Bill Clinton and his "goofy" yet loveable demeanour
(so is Clinton really a psychopath? Many believe he is).
A psychopath (he was diagnosed anti-social) I knew used the harmless
cover-up quite well. Everyone thought he was very funny. I did too, at
first. Then, little by little, I realised there was something "not
right" about him. At first his seemingly harmless pranks were
charming, but after a while, he became more of a nuisance and
disrupted our work environment, which created havoc and tension
between employees. I've learned, a psychopath can use these disguises
for his own hidden purpose.Regardless of race, social class, or
occupation, however, the psychopath is dangerous to society, for "the
nature of ASP (psychopathy) implies that it wreaks
more havoc on society than most other mental illnesses do, since the
disorder primarily involves reactions against the social environment
that drag other people into its destructive web...The despair and
anxiety wrought by antisocials (psychopaths) tragically affects
families and communities, leaving deep physical and
emotional scars..." [Black, 5].
There is much to the psychopathic personality which is baffling and
disturbing. 1 in about 25-30 people are psychopathic (also known as
sociopaths or anti-social -- the correct title being psychopath.)
Since the majority or them are men, I wrote this site in part, to warn
women about the dangers, especially women online, which I believe
is a favourite "new medium" which appeals to psychopaths. I have
personal experience with this subject as well. This is because
"antisocials (psychopaths) are not just characters in our fictional or
true-life entertainments. They are family members, friends,
co-workers, neighbors, or strangers we may encounter every day."
[Black, 10]. Pamela Jayne, M.A., writes that "30% of men are
sociopathic." If about every three out of ten men I may meet are
psychopathic, I would assume this is not something to take lightly.
According to these statistics, that would mean every three out of ten
men and maybe every one out of ten females. The truth is, we do not
really know exactly how many individuals are psychopathic; however,
there seems to be a rise in the prevalence of psychopathy and that is
why some claim that numbers are higher. Dr. Black claims that
psychopathy leads right behind depression, along with schizophrenia
and borderline personality disorder, which is an astounding fact.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 04:46 GMT
There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact
that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions,
successes, manliness, Super Southern California surfing body, family, and
name. What a jealous little draft dodging senile coward from Navarre,
Florida, that of course, doesn't have a DD214, it had to have served our
country for that. Who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its
self, with its goat obsession/fetish, where it writes via remailers, to no
one's surprise. Like when the other kids laughed at its attempt to use foul
language in elementary school play grounds, but its just gibberish. Too
senile to remember what he last wrote, like the rest of Florida. You remind
me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking
it's rabid head off, me too, me too. And is too afraid to use your name,
address, or even sign your statement as any man would, totally worthless!
    Posted pornography at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com
As a member of the moral majority I know what porn is when I see it!
    But now worth the time to forward this low life to: abuse@mchsi.com,
fraud@mchsi.com, fraud@4AX.COM, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net,
abuse@teranews.com for forgery.
   I thought your attacks were just personal disagreements, but with
passing of my country's Independents Day, I realize these attacks are
stemming from my love of God and America, and that's what you've been doing
all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with
each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly  to be a terrorist.
It's America, love it, or leave it, so get the f*ck out!
       God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous
senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>

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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 05:52 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:46:46 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>     There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact
>that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous
>senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 06:05 GMT
><Wrote nothing as usual.>

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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 07:12 GMT
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:05:28 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III"
<LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:

>><Wrote nothing as usual.>

Eight Ways to Spot Emotional Manipulation

1.There is no use in trying to be honest with an emotional
manipulator. You make a statement and it will be turned around.
Example: I am really angry that you forgot my birthday. Response - "It
makes me feel sad that you would think I would forget your birthday, I
should have told you of the great personal stress I am facing at the
moment - but you see I didn’t want to trouble you. You are right I
should have put all this pain (don’t be surprised to see real tears at
this point) aside and focused on your birthday. Sorry." Even as you
are hearing the words you get the creeped out sensation that they
really do NOT mean they are sorry at all - but since they’ve said the
words you’re pretty much left with nothing more to say. Either that or
you suddenly find yourself babysitting their angst!! Under all
circumstances if you feel this angle is being played - don’t
capitulate! Do not care take - do not accept an apology that feels
like bullshit. If it feels like bullshit - it probably is. Rule number
one - if dealing with an emotional blackmailer TRUST your gut. TRUST
your senses. Once an emotional manipulator finds a successful maneuver
- it’s added to their hit list and you’ll be fed a steady diet of this
sh.t.

2.An emotional manipulator is the picture of a willing helper. If you
ask them to do something they will almost always agree - that is IF
they didn’t volunteer to do it first. Then when you say, "ok thanks" -
they make a bunch of heavy sighs, or other non verbal signs that let
you know they don’t really want to do whatever said thing happens to
be. When you tell them it doesn’t seem like they want to do whatever -
they will turn it around and try to make it seem like OF COURSE they
wanted to and how unreasonable you are. This is a form of crazy making
- which is something emotional manipulators are very good at. Rule
number two - If an emotional manipulator said YES - make them
accountable for it. Do NOT buy into the sighs and subtleties - if they
don’t want to do it - make them tell you it up front - or just put on
the walk-man headphones and run a bath and leave them to their
theater.

3.Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not
say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you
should start keeping a log of what’s been said because you are
beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional
manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things
around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can
lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and they’ll call it
white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very
senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can
literally alter your sense of reality. WARNING: Emotional Manipulation
is VERY Dangerous! It is very disconcerting for an emotional
manipulator if you begin carrying a pad of paper and a pen and making
notations during conversations. Feel free to let them know you just
are feeling so "forgetful" these days that you want to record their
words for posterity’s sake. The damndest thing about this is that
having to do such a thing is a clear example for why you should be
seriously thinking about removing yourself from range in the first
place. If you’re toting a notebook to safeguard yourself - that ol’
bullshit meter should be flashing steady by now!

4.Guilt. Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers. They can
make you feel guilty for speaking up or not speaking up, for being
emotional or not being emotional enough, for giving and caring, or for
not giving and caring enough. Any thing is fair game and open to guilt
with an emotional manipulator. Emotional manipulators seldom express
their needs or desires openly - they get what they want through
emotional manipulation. Guilt is not the only form of this but it is a
potent one. Most of us are pretty conditioned to do whatever is
necessary to reduce our feelings of guilt. Another powerful emotion
that is used is sympathy. An emotional manipulator is a great victim.
They inspire a profound sense of needing to support, care for and
nurture. Emotional Manipulators seldom fight their own fights or do
their own dirty work. The crazy thing is that when you do it for them
(which they will never ask directly for), they may just turn around
and say they certainly didn’t want or expect you to do anything! Try
to make a point of not fighting other people’s battles, or doing their
dirty work for them. A great line is "I have every confidence in your
ability to work this out on your own" - check out the response and
note the bullshit meter once again.

5.Emotional manipulators fight dirty. They don’t deal with things
directly. They will talk around behind your back and eventually put
others in the position of telling you what they would not say
themselves. They are passive aggressive, meaning they find subtle ways
of letting you know they are not happy little campers. They’ll tell
you what they think you want to hear and then do a bunch of j.rk off
sh.t to undermine it. Example: "Of course I want you to go back to
school honey and you know I’ll support you." Then exam night you are
sitting at the table and poker buddies show up, the kids are crying
the t.v. blasting and the dog needs walking - all the while "Sweetie"
is sitting on their a.s looking at you blankly. Dare you call them on
such behavior you are likely to hear, "well you can’t expect life to
just stop because you have an exam can you honey?" Cry, scream or
choke ‘em - only the last will have any long-term benefits and it’ll
probably wind your butt in jail.

6.If you have a headache an emotional manipulator will have a brain
tumor! No matter what your situation is the emotional manipulator has
probably been there or is there now - but only ten times worse. It’s
hard after a period of time to feel emotionally connected to an
emotional manipulator because they have a way of de-railing
conversations and putting the spotlight back on themselves. If you
call them on this behavior they will likely become deeply wounded or
very petulant and call you selfish - or claim that it is you who are
always in the spotlight. The thing is that even tho you know this is
not the case you are left with the impossible task of proving it.
Don’t bother - TRUST your gut and walk away!

7.Emotional manipulators somehow have the ability to impact the
emotional climate of those around them. When an emotional manipulator
is sad or angry the very room thrums with it - it brings a deep
instinctual response to find someway to equalize the emotional climate
and the quickest route is by making the emotional manipulator feel
better - fixing whatever is broken for them. Stick with this type of
loser for too long and you will be so enmeshed and co-dependent you
will forget you even have needs - let alone that you have just as much
right to have your needs met.

8.Emotional manipulators have no sense of accountability. They take no
responsibility for themselves or their behavior - it is always about
what everyone else has "done to them". One of the easiest ways to spot
an emotional manipulator is that they often attempt to establish
intimacy through the early sharing of deeply personal information that
is generally of the "hook-you-in-and-make-you-sorry-for-me" variety.
Initially you may perceive this type of person as very sensitive,
emotionally open and maybe a little vulnerable. Believe me when I say
that an emotional manipulator is about as vulnerable as a rabid pit
bull, and there will always be a problem or a crisis to overcome.
SnoMan - 08 Jul 2007 21:49 GMT
> I
>haven't had the death wobble since I rebuilt the front end with new
>parts back in 2000.

You me you had it rebuilt. You are lucky because the caster must be
okay (it is positive enough) be bacuse if it was not it would wobble
new front end or not when conditions are right.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
Mike Romain - 09 Jul 2007 02:40 GMT
>> I
>> haven't had the death wobble since I rebuilt the front end with new
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

No I mean 'I' rebuilt it when 'I' did a frame up restore and glass body
job on it in my driveway.  I didn't get smashed up as a passenger in the
car accident until 2003 which was when I had to stop the heavy stuff.

CJ build http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4292105877

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos:  Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Jamie Mello - 31 Jul 2007 00:43 GMT
Hey all of you I just got my jeep back from the shop. Yesterday and it
turn out the front track bar bushing was worn out. So they replaced it
and no more death wobble. Well I just wanted to give you all a update
of what was wrong. Thanks all of you for all your Help. I did know
that bushing worn out. Can this be done by doing to munch offroading
with the jeep with it stock or what???
DougW - 31 Jul 2007 04:45 GMT
> Hey all of you I just got my jeep back from the shop. Yesterday and it
> turn out the front track bar bushing was worn out. So they replaced it
> and no more death wobble. Well I just wanted to give you all a update
> of what was wrong. Thanks all of you for all your Help. I did know
> that bushing worn out. Can this be done by doing to munch offroading
> with the jeep with it stock or what???

The track bar bushing is a wear item.  How fast it goes depends on how
agressivly you drive.

In my case it's a every 3 year replacement.

Next is the ball joint, but in my case that's the whole assembly.

Signature

-- DougW --   93 ZJ 4.0                     http://revbeergoggles.com
HESCO Supercharger   -   300W IASCA Stereo   -   Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors
Banks Header - and BEER, in the fridge!

Jamie Mello - 31 Jul 2007 18:13 GMT
Hi Thanks for the reply. I did not know that the track bar bushing.
Was a wearing item. Thanks Jamie
Peter Stolz - 06 Jul 2007 17:12 GMT
>I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift
> and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks
> now and it is getting old the death wobble comes at about 45 to 50 mph
> after I go over a bump and it comes some times when on the highway
> going about 45 + when you turn only right but very rarely it will
> happen when you turn left so any help will very munch helpful.

I'd first check to make sure all the suspension bits are tight.  Or it could
be a dead shock.

Signature

Pete
'84 CJ7 (that I bought new!) factory rebuilt AMC 360, NV4500, Edelbrock carb
& intake, MSD, headers, 2.5" duals, homemade on-board air, blah, blah, blah
'07 Commander Sport
'04 Audi S4 that's bone stock
'02 Durango

jbjeep - 06 Jul 2007 17:50 GMT
check your rear track bar and its ends and mounting points.
check your front track bar and its ends and mounting points.
are your tires clean (no mud in the rims)?
are they all at the same pressure?
are your front wheel bearings good?
is your steering stabilizer good?
are any of the ends on your front suspension bad?
how old are your shocks?  could one be going out?

Its often a hard thing to find.  All of these things above have caused death wobble
for me (98 TJ).  Mostly I find that (due to my lift I think) I tend to rip the rear
track bar mounts off the rear axle.  Why that causes death wobble up front I dont
know, but it does.  the one thing with the steering stabilizer is that just changing
it can mask a biger issue, like a bad rod end in your steering.
-jenn

>>I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift
>>and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks
>>now and it is getting old the death wobble comes at about 45 to 50 mph
>>after I go over a bump and it comes some times when on the highway
>>going about 45 + when you turn only right but very rarely it will
>>happen when you turn left so any help will very munch helpful.
 
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