Car Forum / Jeep / July 2007
death wobble with a 99 tj sport
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Jamie Mello - 06 Jul 2007 16:32 GMT I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks now and it is getting old the death wobble comes at about 45 to 50 mph after I go over a bump and it comes some times when on the highway going about 45 + when you turn only right but very rarely it will happen when you turn left so any help will very munch helpful.
Mike Romain - 06 Jul 2007 17:08 GMT > I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift > and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks > now and it is getting old the death wobble comes at about 45 to 50 mph > after I go over a bump and it comes some times when on the highway > going about 45 + when you turn only right but very rarely it will > happen when you turn left so any help will very munch helpful. I would be checking out the track bar or it's relocating bracket thinking it has come loose or it's bushings are broke. The track bar has a tie rod end on it too that can go bad.
Something is likely loose though.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Scott in Baltimore - 06 Jul 2007 17:34 GMT >> I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift >> and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Something is likely loose though. Finally got around to replacing my steering dampener. It hasn't wobbled since I got a new set of BFG KO's. The old SD was completely shot. Now the steering wheel doesn't shake a few times over bumps like it used to.
Now for some track bar bushings to stop the clunk over bumps.
And, it seems it's not a crackhead in the 'hood. It's juveniles! Chased a couple girls from the tennis courts last night that were trying to break things. A quick drive around the 'hood found a bunch of juvies lighting fireworks. Next time they show up, there won't be anything to steal except a dead lighter with "ha ha, f*cker" written on it! Bastards!!!
SnoMan - 06 Jul 2007 18:49 GMT >>> I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift >>> and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >fireworks. Next time they show up, there won't be anything to steal except >a dead lighter with "ha ha, f*cker" written on it! Bastards!!! The "Death Wooble" is caused by a dynamically unstable front axle. Many think is is because a a bad stabilizer or worn suspension componates but all they are doing is letting you know that you front end is unstable to begin with and that you are trying to brute force hold it stable. This instablity is cause by the improper caster, camber and toe in combo for your lift and tires. Many think that alignment is same but it is not and factory specs are rarely okay with you add a lift and more tire rolling resistance and tread width to the combo. Usually when you lift it you do not set proper posistive caster angle (the amount that top of axle pivots are tipped towards rear of vehicle) and this results in a front axle that want to osciilate at times. A new damper is just masking the real problem but many are usually convinced otherwise. Dynamic instablity is good for a fighter aircraft because it makes it more resposive to controls but it is not good for a front axle. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Scott in Baltimore - 06 Jul 2007 20:39 GMT Mine is not lifted. I did replace the P205/75R15's with LT235/75R15's years ago. My track bar bushings are shot and need replacement. I'll get to that, soon.
-Scott '97 TJ SE
SnoMan - 07 Jul 2007 01:39 GMT >Mine is not lifted. I did replace the P205/75R15's with LT235/75R15's years ago. >My track bar bushings are shot and need replacement. I'll get to that, soon. > >-Scott >'97 TJ SE I used to align those axles many years ago when few even knew what a 4x4 was let alone how to align one. I have seen many death wooble cases that I was able to fix. With leaf springs it was easy to set caster with shims but newer front ends are not so easy sometimes (4 link solid axle and such) For camber you used to bend the housing with a specail 25 ton clamp jack (very carefully too) before they started to use shims behind spindles where they mounted to knuckle. I have mixed feelings about those shims. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Jamie Mello - 07 Jul 2007 06:33 GMT Thanks all of you that put in your 2 cents and will check out what you guys said to try. How do you test your steering dampener to see if it is bad or not? Thanks Jamie
SnoMan - 07 Jul 2007 12:48 GMT >How do you test your steering dampener to see if it >is bad or not? Thanks Jamie If you can move the rod in and out of it easily by hand it is bad. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 16:27 GMT Thanks you all of you the steering dampener is bad I order one yesterday (skyjacker heavy duty one) Thanks again Jamie
Scott in Baltimore - 08 Jul 2007 16:30 GMT > Thanks you all of you the steering dampener is bad I order one > yesterday (skyjacker heavy duty one) Thanks again Jamie I got the one from OME. It's nice and yellow! :)
Mike Romain - 08 Jul 2007 17:08 GMT > Thanks you all of you the steering dampener is bad I order one > yesterday (skyjacker heavy duty one) Thanks again Jamie A new steering damper will only 'mask' a problem 'maybe'.
It will 'not' fix the slop that is allowing the death wobble.
If there wasn't something broken or about to break or really worn or 'really' out of adjustment, you wouldn't get the 'death wobble'.
I recently found out my steering damper is only an empty tube, literally, and has been since I bought it way back in the 90's. I haven't had the death wobble since I rebuilt the front end with new parts back in 2000.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 18:21 GMT Well I replaced a lower control arm bracket on the front axle on the right side a few weeks ago it did help some but the death wobble is still there
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 18:22 GMT just not as bad
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 18:36 GMT oh and almost forgot back in Jan 07 I had I lost control and ran over a cruve and hit a stop sign on a rainly day speeding and all 4 on my wheels started sliding on the wet pavement just to try to make it to a movie the reno 911 movie and hit no really damage just my bumper had a small dent I plate fell off and my front rim was bent and the tire was trash (big rip in it) and my aliment was way off you can see it in the tire wear and the steering wheel is not right side up like it use to be I do not know if this has anything to do with the death wobble or not
Mike Romain - 08 Jul 2007 19:21 GMT > oh and almost forgot back in Jan 07 I had I lost control and ran over > a cruve and hit a stop sign on a rainly day speeding and all 4 on my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > be I do not know if this has anything to do with the death wobble or > not Only a little.... <sarcasm>
You can use a tape measure to get the toe in back, but it really needs a machine to check it all.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Jamie Mello - 08 Jul 2007 21:32 GMT Ok thanks I will take in dow to get looked at friday (that is when I get paid) Thanks all of you and a specal Special thanks to Mike Romain
Peter Stolz - 12 Jul 2007 01:58 GMT > oh and almost forgot back in Jan 07 I had I lost control and ran over > a cruve and hit a stop sign on a rainly day speeding and all 4 on my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > be I do not know if this has anything to do with the death wobble or > not Dude, that was incredibly hard to read without ANY sort of punctuation.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 12 Jul 2007 05:08 GMT Mike, didn't have any problem, but then he has common sense. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
> Dude, that was incredibly hard to read without ANY sort of punctuation.
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Shirley U. Jeste - 12 Jul 2007 17:41 GMT On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:08:57 -0700, L.W. (Large Wide) Hughes III wrote:
> Mike, didn't have any problem, but then he has common sense. Still promoting illiteracy, I see.
And I'm not picking on your grammar; the thoughts(?) behind your words are equally idiotic and haphazard.
Simply put, you are a dummy.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 12 Jul 2007 23:33 GMT This from the biggest loser of them all! The jealous, really jealous, I can't believe how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic psychopath liar hiding in Vancouver via S0106000ea6ba70e7.vn.shawcable.net 24.86.24.251 intrepidator@shaw.ca who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its self. With an obsession with perverts and goats, where it writes via remailers, and cross posts to other perverts to no one's surprise. With extreme jealous ranting over my documents, possessions, successes, manliness and fine, Southern California surfing body, beard, and loving family. Committing forgery over many of my posts, proving I'm a responsible American man. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking, me too, me too. You're even more senile than I first thought. And the poor thing, you're too girlie to take responsibility for yourself again, by signing your statement like a man. That really thinks the group's members are so stupid not to know it's the same coward, posting over and over again using a schizophrenic psychopath forged up names? You're not worth any more time when a cut and paste this same paragraphs it fits so well! But, now worth a forwarding to: internet.help@shaw.ca, security@shaw.ca, abuse@shaw.ca, internet.abuse@sjrb.ca, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net for forgery. Who said it also likes baby monkeys sucking their penis, like his buddy posted on an auto picture group at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com I thought this traitor's attacks were just over personal disagreements, but in reality these attacks stemming from my love of God and America on Independents Week, I realized you are actually attacking my country, and that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly and stupid to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave it, so keep the f*ck out! This dummy can buy and sell you, but I would touch a worthless scumbag traitor like you. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
> Still promoting illiteracy, I see. > > And I'm not picking on your grammar; the thoughts(?) behind your words are > equally idiotic and haphazard. > > Simply put, you are a dummy.
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Shirley U. Jeste - 13 Jul 2007 00:40 GMT > This dummy can buy and sell you Well at least you recognize that you are a dummy. It's a start.
However, you couldn't buy one of my used toenail fragments.
Dummy.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 00:51 GMT This from the biggest loser of them all! The jealous, really jealous, I can't believe how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic psychopath liar hiding in Vancouver via S0106000ea6ba70e7.vn.shawcable.net 24.86.24.251 intrepidator@shaw.ca who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its self. With an obsession with perverts and goats, where it writes via remailers, and cross posts to other perverts to no one's surprise. With extreme jealous ranting over my documents, possessions, successes, manliness and fine, Southern California surfing body, beard, and loving family. Committing forgery over many of my posts, proving I'm a responsible American man. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking, me too, me too. You're even more senile than I first thought. And the poor thing, you're too girlie to take responsibility for yourself again, by signing your statement like a man. That really thinks the group's members are so stupid not to know it's the same coward, posting over and over again using a schizophrenic psychopath forged up names? You're not worth any more time when a cut and paste this same paragraphs it fits so well! But, now worth a forwarding to: internet.help@shaw.ca, security@shaw.ca, abuse@shaw.ca, internet.abuse@sjrb.ca, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net for forgery. Who said it also likes baby monkeys sucking their penis, like his buddy posted on an auto picture group at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com I thought this traitor's attacks were just over personal disagreements, but in reality these attacks stemming from my love of God and America on Independents Week, I realized you are actually attacking my country, and that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly and stupid to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave it, so keep the f*ck out! I never said I was smart, just that I was required to take the ninety day wonder tests in advanced training, which I learned means I have at least a hundred and ten Intelligence Quotient as tested on the induction placement exams. Something as a traitor you never have never taken. And I can buy and sell your worthless body, all you have is a POS Intrepid. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
> > This dummy can buy and sell you > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dummy.
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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 04:10 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:51:48 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
> This from the biggest loser of them all! The jealous, really jealous, I >can't believe how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ How Psychopaths View Their World.
Most psychopaths are very arrogant and cocky. However, when charming a potential victim, they say all the "right" things and make you believe they are kind-hearted souls; not always, but often enough. The truth is, psychopaths are not altruistic and do not really care about friendships or ties. Guggenbuhl-Craig states that they are very talented at appearing much more humble than the average person, but are hardly so. Some are also able to feign concern about the lower classes and profess that they are on the side of the underdog, the poor, and so forth. A psychopath may claim, for instance (if he's from a low socio-economic class), that he dislikes rich people intensely, but at the same time, he will inwardly yearn and envy what they have. He is like the narcissist, desiring to reflect a false image of himself through his possessions. Among his possessions are included human beings: girlfriends, wives, and children. Some psychopaths can even very fond of animals (contrary to the common viewpoint), but still view them as objects in relation to themselves. The psychopath is filled with greed inside, relating to the world through power, even though, as I said, on the outside he can claim to be on the side of the disenfranchised or the downtrodden. I knew one who liked to repeat phrases such as "they have to stop keeping my brothers down" but he didn't mean a word of it. He was actually aracist. The psychopath can also often identify himself as a revolutionary. On the flip side, the psychopath also often paints a picture of himself as the downcast anti-hero (his "own worst enemy type") and some like to see themselves as lonewolves. The psychopath may even claim he is sensitive and profound, but inside he is nothing but emptiness and greed. Whether or not the psychopath is aware of his behaviour is something that is often debated. I do believe that psychopaths usually know exactly what they are doing, although others suggest that psychopaths are born, not made. I believe that psychopathy is primarily genetic. A son with a psychopathic father often will be psychopathic as well, especially if the father was abusive and/or abandoned the family as well. As mentioned, psychopaths often claim to settle for second best (being their own worst enemy) and then think they deserve better. This may be manifested in the way they seek power -- either through money (i.e. material goods), manipulation and/or treating people as objects. By enacting such behaviours, the psychopath is also trying to "get back" at society and the world, in order to gain retribution. They will spend their entire lives doing this, whether they are rich or poor, or whatever their social background may be, although studies have shown that they often come from an impoverished or lower socio- economic background and/or social status. (In one of Dr.Donald Black's studies, many of the men were "overwhelmingly white, blue collar, lower middle class, and married, and most had not graduated from high school." [Black, 14]). (Let me add, despite Dr. Blacks' studies, psychopaths can still exist in any social class. Do not be misled). I also wanted to point out that I will be using "he" and "him" for the term psychopath throughout this website; let it not be forgotten, yes, female psychopaths exist as well; however, according to the Sixth Edition of Abnormal Behavior, printed in 2000 by three male professors, David, Derald, and Stanley Sue, the rates do differ by gender. Included in their excellent text is a report by the The American Psychiatric Association that the general estimate is 3% for men, and less than 1% in women [Personality Disorders and Impulse Control Disorders, 238]. What is very disturbing about psychopaths, besides their sense of special entitlement, is the complete lack of empathy for normal people, for "antisocials (psychopaths) seem to lack a conscience, feeling little or no empathy for the people whose lives they touch...the antisocial effortlessly resists all regulation, unable to see beyond his self-interest or to adopt standards of right versus wrong." [Black, XIII]. Not all psychopath are uneducated low-class misfits. Some of them are quite handsome and have good careers, and use this all the more to their benefit. Take a look at Ted Bundy; my friend's mother once went on a double-date with him and claimed he was the nicest person. His mother said he was the "best son any mother could have." Bundy was also apparently quite good-looking, which made him even more dangerous. So not all psychopaths are derelict, low-class, high school dropouts, there are many who also work in professional occupations; the fact remains that there are just more psychopaths who come from impoverished backgrounds than not. Also, not all psychopaths are calm, cool, and collected. Some of them appear strange or odd, and their behaviour can be eccentric or unusual. I believe this is what can confuse victims most often. Psychopaths often appear [see pictures here]: intense and "electrifying". Do not be misled if someone appears harmless, "foolish", or seems offbeat. An "angelic" visage can also often fool people. Just picture John Wayne Gacy in his "clown costume" as he entertained children as one example. Another example which someone on the "Victims of Psychopathy" board came up with was Bill Clinton and his "goofy" yet loveable demeanour (so is Clinton really a psychopath? Many believe he is). A psychopath (he was diagnosed anti-social) I knew used the harmless cover-up quite well. Everyone thought he was very funny. I did too, at first. Then, little by little, I realised there was something "not right" about him. At first his seemingly harmless pranks were charming, but after a while, he became more of a nuisance and disrupted our work environment, which created havoc and tension between employees. I've learned, a psychopath can use these disguises for his own hidden purpose.Regardless of race, social class, or occupation, however, the psychopath is dangerous to society, for "the nature of ASP (psychopathy) implies that it wreaks more havoc on society than most other mental illnesses do, since the disorder primarily involves reactions against the social environment that drag other people into its destructive web...The despair and anxiety wrought by antisocials (psychopaths) tragically affects families and communities, leaving deep physical and emotional scars..." [Black, 5]. There is much to the psychopathic personality which is baffling and disturbing. 1 in about 25-30 people are psychopathic (also known as sociopaths or anti-social -- the correct title being psychopath.) Since the majority or them are men, I wrote this site in part, to warn women about the dangers, especially women online, which I believe is a favourite "new medium" which appeals to psychopaths. I have personal experience with this subject as well. This is because "antisocials (psychopaths) are not just characters in our fictional or true-life entertainments. They are family members, friends, co-workers, neighbors, or strangers we may encounter every day." [Black, 10]. Pamela Jayne, M.A., writes that "30% of men are sociopathic." If about every three out of ten men I may meet are psychopathic, I would assume this is not something to take lightly. According to these statistics, that would mean every three out of ten men and maybe every one out of ten females. The truth is, we do not really know exactly how many individuals are psychopathic; however, there seems to be a rise in the prevalence of psychopathy and that is why some claim that numbers are higher. Dr. Black claims that psychopathy leads right behind depression, along with schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder, which is an astounding fact.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 04:29 GMT There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions, successes, manliness, Super Southern California surfing body, family, and name. What a jealous little draft dodging senile coward from Navarre, Florida, that of course, doesn't have a DD214, it had to have served our country for that. Who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its self, with its goat obsession/fetish, where it writes via remailers, to no one's surprise. Like when the other kids laughed at its attempt to use foul language in elementary school play grounds, but its just gibberish. Too senile to remember what he last wrote, like the rest of Florida. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking it's rabid head off, me too, me too. And is too afraid to use your name, address, or even sign your statement as any man would, totally worthless! Posted pornography at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com As a member of the moral majority I know what porn is when I see it! But now worth the time to forward this low life to: abuse@mchsi.com, fraud@mchsi.com, fraud@4AX.COM, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net, abuse@teranews.com for forgery. I thought your attacks were just personal disagreements, but with passing of my country's Independents Day, I realize these attacks are stemming from my love of God and America, and that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave it, so get the f*ck out! God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>
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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 05:52 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:29:47 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
> There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact >that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous >senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests> L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 06:04 GMT ><Wrote nothing as usual.>
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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 07:12 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:04:36 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
>><Wrote nothing as usual.> Eight Ways to Spot Emotional Manipulation
1.There is no use in trying to be honest with an emotional manipulator. You make a statement and it will be turned around. Example: I am really angry that you forgot my birthday. Response - "It makes me feel sad that you would think I would forget your birthday, I should have told you of the great personal stress I am facing at the moment - but you see I didnt want to trouble you. You are right I should have put all this pain (dont be surprised to see real tears at this point) aside and focused on your birthday. Sorry." Even as you are hearing the words you get the creeped out sensation that they really do NOT mean they are sorry at all - but since theyve said the words youre pretty much left with nothing more to say. Either that or you suddenly find yourself babysitting their angst!! Under all circumstances if you feel this angle is being played - dont capitulate! Do not care take - do not accept an apology that feels like bullshit. If it feels like bullshit - it probably is. Rule number one - if dealing with an emotional blackmailer TRUST your gut. TRUST your senses. Once an emotional manipulator finds a successful maneuver - its added to their hit list and youll be fed a steady diet of this sh.t.
2.An emotional manipulator is the picture of a willing helper. If you ask them to do something they will almost always agree - that is IF they didnt volunteer to do it first. Then when you say, "ok thanks" - they make a bunch of heavy sighs, or other non verbal signs that let you know they dont really want to do whatever said thing happens to be. When you tell them it doesnt seem like they want to do whatever - they will turn it around and try to make it seem like OF COURSE they wanted to and how unreasonable you are. This is a form of crazy making - which is something emotional manipulators are very good at. Rule number two - If an emotional manipulator said YES - make them accountable for it. Do NOT buy into the sighs and subtleties - if they dont want to do it - make them tell you it up front - or just put on the walk-man headphones and run a bath and leave them to their theater.
3.Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you should start keeping a log of whats been said because you are beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and theyll call it white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can literally alter your sense of reality. WARNING: Emotional Manipulation is VERY Dangerous! It is very disconcerting for an emotional manipulator if you begin carrying a pad of paper and a pen and making notations during conversations. Feel free to let them know you just are feeling so "forgetful" these days that you want to record their words for posteritys sake. The damndest thing about this is that having to do such a thing is a clear example for why you should be seriously thinking about removing yourself from range in the first place. If youre toting a notebook to safeguard yourself - that ol bullshit meter should be flashing steady by now!
4.Guilt. Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers. They can make you feel guilty for speaking up or not speaking up, for being emotional or not being emotional enough, for giving and caring, or for not giving and caring enough. Any thing is fair game and open to guilt with an emotional manipulator. Emotional manipulators seldom express their needs or desires openly - they get what they want through emotional manipulation. Guilt is not the only form of this but it is a potent one. Most of us are pretty conditioned to do whatever is necessary to reduce our feelings of guilt. Another powerful emotion that is used is sympathy. An emotional manipulator is a great victim. They inspire a profound sense of needing to support, care for and nurture. Emotional Manipulators seldom fight their own fights or do their own dirty work. The crazy thing is that when you do it for them (which they will never ask directly for), they may just turn around and say they certainly didnt want or expect you to do anything! Try to make a point of not fighting other peoples battles, or doing their dirty work for them. A great line is "I have every confidence in your ability to work this out on your own" - check out the response and note the bullshit meter once again.
5.Emotional manipulators fight dirty. They dont deal with things directly. They will talk around behind your back and eventually put others in the position of telling you what they would not say themselves. They are passive aggressive, meaning they find subtle ways of letting you know they are not happy little campers. Theyll tell you what they think you want to hear and then do a bunch of j.rk off sh.t to undermine it. Example: "Of course I want you to go back to school honey and you know Ill support you." Then exam night you are sitting at the table and poker buddies show up, the kids are crying the t.v. blasting and the dog needs walking - all the while "Sweetie" is sitting on their a.s looking at you blankly. Dare you call them on such behavior you are likely to hear, "well you cant expect life to just stop because you have an exam can you honey?" Cry, scream or choke em - only the last will have any long-term benefits and itll probably wind your butt in jail.
6.If you have a headache an emotional manipulator will have a brain tumor! No matter what your situation is the emotional manipulator has probably been there or is there now - but only ten times worse. Its hard after a period of time to feel emotionally connected to an emotional manipulator because they have a way of de-railing conversations and putting the spotlight back on themselves. If you call them on this behavior they will likely become deeply wounded or very petulant and call you selfish - or claim that it is you who are always in the spotlight. The thing is that even tho you know this is not the case you are left with the impossible task of proving it. Dont bother - TRUST your gut and walk away!
7.Emotional manipulators somehow have the ability to impact the emotional climate of those around them. When an emotional manipulator is sad or angry the very room thrums with it - it brings a deep instinctual response to find someway to equalize the emotional climate and the quickest route is by making the emotional manipulator feel better - fixing whatever is broken for them. Stick with this type of loser for too long and you will be so enmeshed and co-dependent you will forget you even have needs - let alone that you have just as much right to have your needs met.
8.Emotional manipulators have no sense of accountability. They take no responsibility for themselves or their behavior - it is always about what everyone else has "done to them". One of the easiest ways to spot an emotional manipulator is that they often attempt to establish intimacy through the early sharing of deeply personal information that is generally of the "hook-you-in-and-make-you-sorry-for-me" variety. Initially you may perceive this type of person as very sensitive, emotionally open and maybe a little vulnerable. Believe me when I say that an emotional manipulator is about as vulnerable as a rabid pit bull, and there will always be a problem or a crisis to overcome.
24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 04:10 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:33:47 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
> This from the biggest loser of them all! The jealous, really jealous, I >can't believe how jealous this little draft dodging coward schizophrenic [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ How Psychopaths View Their World.
Most psychopaths are very arrogant and cocky. However, when charming a potential victim, they say all the "right" things and make you believe they are kind-hearted souls; not always, but often enough. The truth is, psychopaths are not altruistic and do not really care about friendships or ties. Guggenbuhl-Craig states that they are very talented at appearing much more humble than the average person, but are hardly so. Some are also able to feign concern about the lower classes and profess that they are on the side of the underdog, the poor, and so forth. A psychopath may claim, for instance (if he's from a low socio-economic class), that he dislikes rich people intensely, but at the same time, he will inwardly yearn and envy what they have. He is like the narcissist, desiring to reflect a false image of himself through his possessions. Among his possessions are included human beings: girlfriends, wives, and children. Some psychopaths can even very fond of animals (contrary to the common viewpoint), but still view them as objects in relation to themselves. The psychopath is filled with greed inside, relating to the world through power, even though, as I said, on the outside he can claim to be on the side of the disenfranchised or the downtrodden. I knew one who liked to repeat phrases such as "they have to stop keeping my brothers down" but he didn't mean a word of it. He was actually aracist. The psychopath can also often identify himself as a revolutionary. On the flip side, the psychopath also often paints a picture of himself as the downcast anti-hero (his "own worst enemy type") and some like to see themselves as lonewolves. The psychopath may even claim he is sensitive and profound, but inside he is nothing but emptiness and greed. Whether or not the psychopath is aware of his behaviour is something that is often debated. I do believe that psychopaths usually know exactly what they are doing, although others suggest that psychopaths are born, not made. I believe that psychopathy is primarily genetic. A son with a psychopathic father often will be psychopathic as well, especially if the father was abusive and/or abandoned the family as well. As mentioned, psychopaths often claim to settle for second best (being their own worst enemy) and then think they deserve better. This may be manifested in the way they seek power -- either through money (i.e. material goods), manipulation and/or treating people as objects. By enacting such behaviours, the psychopath is also trying to "get back" at society and the world, in order to gain retribution. They will spend their entire lives doing this, whether they are rich or poor, or whatever their social background may be, although studies have shown that they often come from an impoverished or lower socio- economic background and/or social status. (In one of Dr.Donald Black's studies, many of the men were "overwhelmingly white, blue collar, lower middle class, and married, and most had not graduated from high school." [Black, 14]). (Let me add, despite Dr. Blacks' studies, psychopaths can still exist in any social class. Do not be misled). I also wanted to point out that I will be using "he" and "him" for the term psychopath throughout this website; let it not be forgotten, yes, female psychopaths exist as well; however, according to the Sixth Edition of Abnormal Behavior, printed in 2000 by three male professors, David, Derald, and Stanley Sue, the rates do differ by gender. Included in their excellent text is a report by the The American Psychiatric Association that the general estimate is 3% for men, and less than 1% in women [Personality Disorders and Impulse Control Disorders, 238]. What is very disturbing about psychopaths, besides their sense of special entitlement, is the complete lack of empathy for normal people, for "antisocials (psychopaths) seem to lack a conscience, feeling little or no empathy for the people whose lives they touch...the antisocial effortlessly resists all regulation, unable to see beyond his self-interest or to adopt standards of right versus wrong." [Black, XIII]. Not all psychopath are uneducated low-class misfits. Some of them are quite handsome and have good careers, and use this all the more to their benefit. Take a look at Ted Bundy; my friend's mother once went on a double-date with him and claimed he was the nicest person. His mother said he was the "best son any mother could have." Bundy was also apparently quite good-looking, which made him even more dangerous. So not all psychopaths are derelict, low-class, high school dropouts, there are many who also work in professional occupations; the fact remains that there are just more psychopaths who come from impoverished backgrounds than not. Also, not all psychopaths are calm, cool, and collected. Some of them appear strange or odd, and their behaviour can be eccentric or unusual. I believe this is what can confuse victims most often. Psychopaths often appear [see pictures here]: intense and "electrifying". Do not be misled if someone appears harmless, "foolish", or seems offbeat. An "angelic" visage can also often fool people. Just picture John Wayne Gacy in his "clown costume" as he entertained children as one example. Another example which someone on the "Victims of Psychopathy" board came up with was Bill Clinton and his "goofy" yet loveable demeanour (so is Clinton really a psychopath? Many believe he is). A psychopath (he was diagnosed anti-social) I knew used the harmless cover-up quite well. Everyone thought he was very funny. I did too, at first. Then, little by little, I realised there was something "not right" about him. At first his seemingly harmless pranks were charming, but after a while, he became more of a nuisance and disrupted our work environment, which created havoc and tension between employees. I've learned, a psychopath can use these disguises for his own hidden purpose.Regardless of race, social class, or occupation, however, the psychopath is dangerous to society, for "the nature of ASP (psychopathy) implies that it wreaks more havoc on society than most other mental illnesses do, since the disorder primarily involves reactions against the social environment that drag other people into its destructive web...The despair and anxiety wrought by antisocials (psychopaths) tragically affects families and communities, leaving deep physical and emotional scars..." [Black, 5]. There is much to the psychopathic personality which is baffling and disturbing. 1 in about 25-30 people are psychopathic (also known as sociopaths or anti-social -- the correct title being psychopath.) Since the majority or them are men, I wrote this site in part, to warn women about the dangers, especially women online, which I believe is a favourite "new medium" which appeals to psychopaths. I have personal experience with this subject as well. This is because "antisocials (psychopaths) are not just characters in our fictional or true-life entertainments. They are family members, friends, co-workers, neighbors, or strangers we may encounter every day." [Black, 10]. Pamela Jayne, M.A., writes that "30% of men are sociopathic." If about every three out of ten men I may meet are psychopathic, I would assume this is not something to take lightly. According to these statistics, that would mean every three out of ten men and maybe every one out of ten females. The truth is, we do not really know exactly how many individuals are psychopathic; however, there seems to be a rise in the prevalence of psychopathy and that is why some claim that numbers are higher. Dr. Black claims that psychopathy leads right behind depression, along with schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder, which is an astounding fact.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 04:33 GMT There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions, successes, manliness, Super Southern California surfing body, family, and name. What a jealous little draft dodging senile coward from Navarre, Florida, that of course, doesn't have a DD214, it had to have served our country for that. Who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its self, with its goat obsession/fetish, where it writes via remailers, to no one's surprise. Like when the other kids laughed at its attempt to use foul language in elementary school play grounds, but its just gibberish. Too senile to remember what he last wrote, like the rest of Florida. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking it's rabid head off, me too, me too. And is too afraid to use your name, address, or even sign your statement as any man would, totally worthless! Posted pornography at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com As a member of the moral majority I know what porn is when I see it! But now worth the time to forward this low life to: abuse@mchsi.com, fraud@mchsi.com, fraud@4AX.COM, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net, abuse@teranews.com for forgery. I thought your attacks were just personal disagreements, but with passing of my country's Independents Day, I realize these attacks are stemming from my love of God and America, and that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave it, so get the f*ck out! God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>
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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 05:52 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:33:45 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
> There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact >that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous >senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests> L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 06:05 GMT > <Wrote nothing as usual.>
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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 07:12 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:05:00 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
>> <Wrote nothing as usual.> Eight Ways to Spot Emotional Manipulation
1.There is no use in trying to be honest with an emotional manipulator. You make a statement and it will be turned around. Example: I am really angry that you forgot my birthday. Response - "It makes me feel sad that you would think I would forget your birthday, I should have told you of the great personal stress I am facing at the moment - but you see I didnt want to trouble you. You are right I should have put all this pain (dont be surprised to see real tears at this point) aside and focused on your birthday. Sorry." Even as you are hearing the words you get the creeped out sensation that they really do NOT mean they are sorry at all - but since theyve said the words youre pretty much left with nothing more to say. Either that or you suddenly find yourself babysitting their angst!! Under all circumstances if you feel this angle is being played - dont capitulate! Do not care take - do not accept an apology that feels like bullshit. If it feels like bullshit - it probably is. Rule number one - if dealing with an emotional blackmailer TRUST your gut. TRUST your senses. Once an emotional manipulator finds a successful maneuver - its added to their hit list and youll be fed a steady diet of this sh.t.
2.An emotional manipulator is the picture of a willing helper. If you ask them to do something they will almost always agree - that is IF they didnt volunteer to do it first. Then when you say, "ok thanks" - they make a bunch of heavy sighs, or other non verbal signs that let you know they dont really want to do whatever said thing happens to be. When you tell them it doesnt seem like they want to do whatever - they will turn it around and try to make it seem like OF COURSE they wanted to and how unreasonable you are. This is a form of crazy making - which is something emotional manipulators are very good at. Rule number two - If an emotional manipulator said YES - make them accountable for it. Do NOT buy into the sighs and subtleties - if they dont want to do it - make them tell you it up front - or just put on the walk-man headphones and run a bath and leave them to their theater.
3.Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you should start keeping a log of whats been said because you are beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and theyll call it white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can literally alter your sense of reality. WARNING: Emotional Manipulation is VERY Dangerous! It is very disconcerting for an emotional manipulator if you begin carrying a pad of paper and a pen and making notations during conversations. Feel free to let them know you just are feeling so "forgetful" these days that you want to record their words for posteritys sake. The damndest thing about this is that having to do such a thing is a clear example for why you should be seriously thinking about removing yourself from range in the first place. If youre toting a notebook to safeguard yourself - that ol bullshit meter should be flashing steady by now!
4.Guilt. Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers. They can make you feel guilty for speaking up or not speaking up, for being emotional or not being emotional enough, for giving and caring, or for not giving and caring enough. Any thing is fair game and open to guilt with an emotional manipulator. Emotional manipulators seldom express their needs or desires openly - they get what they want through emotional manipulation. Guilt is not the only form of this but it is a potent one. Most of us are pretty conditioned to do whatever is necessary to reduce our feelings of guilt. Another powerful emotion that is used is sympathy. An emotional manipulator is a great victim. They inspire a profound sense of needing to support, care for and nurture. Emotional Manipulators seldom fight their own fights or do their own dirty work. The crazy thing is that when you do it for them (which they will never ask directly for), they may just turn around and say they certainly didnt want or expect you to do anything! Try to make a point of not fighting other peoples battles, or doing their dirty work for them. A great line is "I have every confidence in your ability to work this out on your own" - check out the response and note the bullshit meter once again.
5.Emotional manipulators fight dirty. They dont deal with things directly. They will talk around behind your back and eventually put others in the position of telling you what they would not say themselves. They are passive aggressive, meaning they find subtle ways of letting you know they are not happy little campers. Theyll tell you what they think you want to hear and then do a bunch of j.rk off sh.t to undermine it. Example: "Of course I want you to go back to school honey and you know Ill support you." Then exam night you are sitting at the table and poker buddies show up, the kids are crying the t.v. blasting and the dog needs walking - all the while "Sweetie" is sitting on their a.s looking at you blankly. Dare you call them on such behavior you are likely to hear, "well you cant expect life to just stop because you have an exam can you honey?" Cry, scream or choke em - only the last will have any long-term benefits and itll probably wind your butt in jail.
6.If you have a headache an emotional manipulator will have a brain tumor! No matter what your situation is the emotional manipulator has probably been there or is there now - but only ten times worse. Its hard after a period of time to feel emotionally connected to an emotional manipulator because they have a way of de-railing conversations and putting the spotlight back on themselves. If you call them on this behavior they will likely become deeply wounded or very petulant and call you selfish - or claim that it is you who are always in the spotlight. The thing is that even tho you know this is not the case you are left with the impossible task of proving it. Dont bother - TRUST your gut and walk away!
7.Emotional manipulators somehow have the ability to impact the emotional climate of those around them. When an emotional manipulator is sad or angry the very room thrums with it - it brings a deep instinctual response to find someway to equalize the emotional climate and the quickest route is by making the emotional manipulator feel better - fixing whatever is broken for them. Stick with this type of loser for too long and you will be so enmeshed and co-dependent you will forget you even have needs - let alone that you have just as much right to have your needs met.
8.Emotional manipulators have no sense of accountability. They take no responsibility for themselves or their behavior - it is always about what everyone else has "done to them". One of the easiest ways to spot an emotional manipulator is that they often attempt to establish intimacy through the early sharing of deeply personal information that is generally of the "hook-you-in-and-make-you-sorry-for-me" variety. Initially you may perceive this type of person as very sensitive, emotionally open and maybe a little vulnerable. Believe me when I say that an emotional manipulator is about as vulnerable as a rabid pit bull, and there will always be a problem or a crisis to overcome.
Peter Stolz - 12 Jul 2007 20:19 GMT First of all, you don't know whether or not Mike had a problem with it; he was just polite (or didn't care) enough not to address it. It may have taken Mike (or any reader) a lot longer to read and understand than it should have if the post in question had written with the slightest bit of effort. I just tried to make the point in the hopes that next time the poster would use a period or comma here and there. Second, what in my post leads you to infer that I do NOT have any common sense? The lack of punctuation in that post, and my opinion that that made it more difficult to read has nothing to do with whether or not I have any common sense. Your post is, therefore, illogical.
> Mike, didn't have any problem, but then he has common sense. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > >> Dude, that was incredibly hard to read without ANY sort of punctuation. L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 12 Jul 2007 23:36 GMT The point you failed to recognize, is the Poster came here for help, not a lesson in grammar. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
> First of all, you don't know whether or not Mike had a problem with it; he > was just polite (or didn't care) enough not to address it. It may have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > read has nothing to do with whether or not I have any common sense. Your > post is, therefore, illogical.
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Peter Stolz - 13 Jul 2007 00:23 GMT Hi Bill, I fully recognize that he came here for help, and I was not trying to give him a lesson in grammar. If I had wanted to do that, my reply would have been much longer. I understand that this group is informal, and I don't expect people to be anywhere near perfect, I for one am certainly not. My point is that the easier it is for his posts to be read, the more likely it is that people who can help him will read it and offer their help. Pete
> The point you failed to recognize, is the Poster came here for help, > not [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> read has nothing to do with whether or not I have any common sense. Your >> post is, therefore, illogical. 24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 04:10 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:36:53 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
> The point you failed to recognize, is the Poster came here for help, not >a lesson in grammar. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O >mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ How Psychopaths View Their World.
Most psychopaths are very arrogant and cocky. However, when charming a potential victim, they say all the "right" things and make you believe they are kind-hearted souls; not always, but often enough. The truth is, psychopaths are not altruistic and do not really care about friendships or ties. Guggenbuhl-Craig states that they are very talented at appearing much more humble than the average person, but are hardly so. Some are also able to feign concern about the lower classes and profess that they are on the side of the underdog, the poor, and so forth. A psychopath may claim, for instance (if he's from a low socio-economic class), that he dislikes rich people intensely, but at the same time, he will inwardly yearn and envy what they have. He is like the narcissist, desiring to reflect a false image of himself through his possessions. Among his possessions are included human beings: girlfriends, wives, and children. Some psychopaths can even very fond of animals (contrary to the common viewpoint), but still view them as objects in relation to themselves. The psychopath is filled with greed inside, relating to the world through power, even though, as I said, on the outside he can claim to be on the side of the disenfranchised or the downtrodden. I knew one who liked to repeat phrases such as "they have to stop keeping my brothers down" but he didn't mean a word of it. He was actually aracist. The psychopath can also often identify himself as a revolutionary. On the flip side, the psychopath also often paints a picture of himself as the downcast anti-hero (his "own worst enemy type") and some like to see themselves as lonewolves. The psychopath may even claim he is sensitive and profound, but inside he is nothing but emptiness and greed. Whether or not the psychopath is aware of his behaviour is something that is often debated. I do believe that psychopaths usually know exactly what they are doing, although others suggest that psychopaths are born, not made. I believe that psychopathy is primarily genetic. A son with a psychopathic father often will be psychopathic as well, especially if the father was abusive and/or abandoned the family as well. As mentioned, psychopaths often claim to settle for second best (being their own worst enemy) and then think they deserve better. This may be manifested in the way they seek power -- either through money (i.e. material goods), manipulation and/or treating people as objects. By enacting such behaviours, the psychopath is also trying to "get back" at society and the world, in order to gain retribution. They will spend their entire lives doing this, whether they are rich or poor, or whatever their social background may be, although studies have shown that they often come from an impoverished or lower socio- economic background and/or social status. (In one of Dr.Donald Black's studies, many of the men were "overwhelmingly white, blue collar, lower middle class, and married, and most had not graduated from high school." [Black, 14]). (Let me add, despite Dr. Blacks' studies, psychopaths can still exist in any social class. Do not be misled). I also wanted to point out that I will be using "he" and "him" for the term psychopath throughout this website; let it not be forgotten, yes, female psychopaths exist as well; however, according to the Sixth Edition of Abnormal Behavior, printed in 2000 by three male professors, David, Derald, and Stanley Sue, the rates do differ by gender. Included in their excellent text is a report by the The American Psychiatric Association that the general estimate is 3% for men, and less than 1% in women [Personality Disorders and Impulse Control Disorders, 238]. What is very disturbing about psychopaths, besides their sense of special entitlement, is the complete lack of empathy for normal people, for "antisocials (psychopaths) seem to lack a conscience, feeling little or no empathy for the people whose lives they touch...the antisocial effortlessly resists all regulation, unable to see beyond his self-interest or to adopt standards of right versus wrong." [Black, XIII]. Not all psychopath are uneducated low-class misfits. Some of them are quite handsome and have good careers, and use this all the more to their benefit. Take a look at Ted Bundy; my friend's mother once went on a double-date with him and claimed he was the nicest person. His mother said he was the "best son any mother could have." Bundy was also apparently quite good-looking, which made him even more dangerous. So not all psychopaths are derelict, low-class, high school dropouts, there are many who also work in professional occupations; the fact remains that there are just more psychopaths who come from impoverished backgrounds than not. Also, not all psychopaths are calm, cool, and collected. Some of them appear strange or odd, and their behaviour can be eccentric or unusual. I believe this is what can confuse victims most often. Psychopaths often appear [see pictures here]: intense and "electrifying". Do not be misled if someone appears harmless, "foolish", or seems offbeat. An "angelic" visage can also often fool people. Just picture John Wayne Gacy in his "clown costume" as he entertained children as one example. Another example which someone on the "Victims of Psychopathy" board came up with was Bill Clinton and his "goofy" yet loveable demeanour (so is Clinton really a psychopath? Many believe he is). A psychopath (he was diagnosed anti-social) I knew used the harmless cover-up quite well. Everyone thought he was very funny. I did too, at first. Then, little by little, I realised there was something "not right" about him. At first his seemingly harmless pranks were charming, but after a while, he became more of a nuisance and disrupted our work environment, which created havoc and tension between employees. I've learned, a psychopath can use these disguises for his own hidden purpose.Regardless of race, social class, or occupation, however, the psychopath is dangerous to society, for "the nature of ASP (psychopathy) implies that it wreaks more havoc on society than most other mental illnesses do, since the disorder primarily involves reactions against the social environment that drag other people into its destructive web...The despair and anxiety wrought by antisocials (psychopaths) tragically affects families and communities, leaving deep physical and emotional scars..." [Black, 5]. There is much to the psychopathic personality which is baffling and disturbing. 1 in about 25-30 people are psychopathic (also known as sociopaths or anti-social -- the correct title being psychopath.) Since the majority or them are men, I wrote this site in part, to warn women about the dangers, especially women online, which I believe is a favourite "new medium" which appeals to psychopaths. I have personal experience with this subject as well. This is because "antisocials (psychopaths) are not just characters in our fictional or true-life entertainments. They are family members, friends, co-workers, neighbors, or strangers we may encounter every day." [Black, 10]. Pamela Jayne, M.A., writes that "30% of men are sociopathic." If about every three out of ten men I may meet are psychopathic, I would assume this is not something to take lightly. According to these statistics, that would mean every three out of ten men and maybe every one out of ten females. The truth is, we do not really know exactly how many individuals are psychopathic; however, there seems to be a rise in the prevalence of psychopathy and that is why some claim that numbers are higher. Dr. Black claims that psychopathy leads right behind depression, along with schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder, which is an astounding fact.
L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 04:46 GMT There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions, successes, manliness, Super Southern California surfing body, family, and name. What a jealous little draft dodging senile coward from Navarre, Florida, that of course, doesn't have a DD214, it had to have served our country for that. Who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its self, with its goat obsession/fetish, where it writes via remailers, to no one's surprise. Like when the other kids laughed at its attempt to use foul language in elementary school play grounds, but its just gibberish. Too senile to remember what he last wrote, like the rest of Florida. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking it's rabid head off, me too, me too. And is too afraid to use your name, address, or even sign your statement as any man would, totally worthless! Posted pornography at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com As a member of the moral majority I know what porn is when I see it! But now worth the time to forward this low life to: abuse@mchsi.com, fraud@mchsi.com, fraud@4AX.COM, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net, abuse@teranews.com for forgery. I thought your attacks were just personal disagreements, but with passing of my country's Independents Day, I realize these attacks are stemming from my love of God and America, and that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave it, so get the f*ck out! God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests>
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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 05:52 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:46:46 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
> There you go again, the little jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact >that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >><snip queer faggot fantasies over my tanned surfer body, and the jealous >senile babbling over my accomplishments and conquests> L.W. (Bill) Hughes III - 13 Jul 2007 06:05 GMT ><Wrote nothing as usual.>
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24Bit® - 13 Jul 2007 07:12 GMT On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:05:28 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote:
>><Wrote nothing as usual.> Eight Ways to Spot Emotional Manipulation
1.There is no use in trying to be honest with an emotional manipulator. You make a statement and it will be turned around. Example: I am really angry that you forgot my birthday. Response - "It makes me feel sad that you would think I would forget your birthday, I should have told you of the great personal stress I am facing at the moment - but you see I didnt want to trouble you. You are right I should have put all this pain (dont be surprised to see real tears at this point) aside and focused on your birthday. Sorry." Even as you are hearing the words you get the creeped out sensation that they really do NOT mean they are sorry at all - but since theyve said the words youre pretty much left with nothing more to say. Either that or you suddenly find yourself babysitting their angst!! Under all circumstances if you feel this angle is being played - dont capitulate! Do not care take - do not accept an apology that feels like bullshit. If it feels like bullshit - it probably is. Rule number one - if dealing with an emotional blackmailer TRUST your gut. TRUST your senses. Once an emotional manipulator finds a successful maneuver - its added to their hit list and youll be fed a steady diet of this sh.t.
2.An emotional manipulator is the picture of a willing helper. If you ask them to do something they will almost always agree - that is IF they didnt volunteer to do it first. Then when you say, "ok thanks" - they make a bunch of heavy sighs, or other non verbal signs that let you know they dont really want to do whatever said thing happens to be. When you tell them it doesnt seem like they want to do whatever - they will turn it around and try to make it seem like OF COURSE they wanted to and how unreasonable you are. This is a form of crazy making - which is something emotional manipulators are very good at. Rule number two - If an emotional manipulator said YES - make them accountable for it. Do NOT buy into the sighs and subtleties - if they dont want to do it - make them tell you it up front - or just put on the walk-man headphones and run a bath and leave them to their theater.
3.Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you should start keeping a log of whats been said because you are beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and theyll call it white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can literally alter your sense of reality. WARNING: Emotional Manipulation is VERY Dangerous! It is very disconcerting for an emotional manipulator if you begin carrying a pad of paper and a pen and making notations during conversations. Feel free to let them know you just are feeling so "forgetful" these days that you want to record their words for posteritys sake. The damndest thing about this is that having to do such a thing is a clear example for why you should be seriously thinking about removing yourself from range in the first place. If youre toting a notebook to safeguard yourself - that ol bullshit meter should be flashing steady by now!
4.Guilt. Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers. They can make you feel guilty for speaking up or not speaking up, for being emotional or not being emotional enough, for giving and caring, or for not giving and caring enough. Any thing is fair game and open to guilt with an emotional manipulator. Emotional manipulators seldom express their needs or desires openly - they get what they want through emotional manipulation. Guilt is not the only form of this but it is a potent one. Most of us are pretty conditioned to do whatever is necessary to reduce our feelings of guilt. Another powerful emotion that is used is sympathy. An emotional manipulator is a great victim. They inspire a profound sense of needing to support, care for and nurture. Emotional Manipulators seldom fight their own fights or do their own dirty work. The crazy thing is that when you do it for them (which they will never ask directly for), they may just turn around and say they certainly didnt want or expect you to do anything! Try to make a point of not fighting other peoples battles, or doing their dirty work for them. A great line is "I have every confidence in your ability to work this out on your own" - check out the response and note the bullshit meter once again.
5.Emotional manipulators fight dirty. They dont deal with things directly. They will talk around behind your back and eventually put others in the position of telling you what they would not say themselves. They are passive aggressive, meaning they find subtle ways of letting you know they are not happy little campers. Theyll tell you what they think you want to hear and then do a bunch of j.rk off sh.t to undermine it. Example: "Of course I want you to go back to school honey and you know Ill support you." Then exam night you are sitting at the table and poker buddies show up, the kids are crying the t.v. blasting and the dog needs walking - all the while "Sweetie" is sitting on their a.s looking at you blankly. Dare you call them on such behavior you are likely to hear, "well you cant expect life to just stop because you have an exam can you honey?" Cry, scream or choke em - only the last will have any long-term benefits and itll probably wind your butt in jail.
6.If you have a headache an emotional manipulator will have a brain tumor! No matter what your situation is the emotional manipulator has probably been there or is there now - but only ten times worse. Its hard after a period of time to feel emotionally connected to an emotional manipulator because they have a way of de-railing conversations and putting the spotlight back on themselves. If you call them on this behavior they will likely become deeply wounded or very petulant and call you selfish - or claim that it is you who are always in the spotlight. The thing is that even tho you know this is not the case you are left with the impossible task of proving it. Dont bother - TRUST your gut and walk away!
7.Emotional manipulators somehow have the ability to impact the emotional climate of those around them. When an emotional manipulator is sad or angry the very room thrums with it - it brings a deep instinctual response to find someway to equalize the emotional climate and the quickest route is by making the emotional manipulator feel better - fixing whatever is broken for them. Stick with this type of loser for too long and you will be so enmeshed and co-dependent you will forget you even have needs - let alone that you have just as much right to have your needs met.
8.Emotional manipulators have no sense of accountability. They take no responsibility for themselves or their behavior - it is always about what everyone else has "done to them". One of the easiest ways to spot an emotional manipulator is that they often attempt to establish intimacy through the early sharing of deeply personal information that is generally of the "hook-you-in-and-make-you-sorry-for-me" variety. Initially you may perceive this type of person as very sensitive, emotionally open and maybe a little vulnerable. Believe me when I say that an emotional manipulator is about as vulnerable as a rabid pit bull, and there will always be a problem or a crisis to overcome.
SnoMan - 08 Jul 2007 21:49 GMT > I >haven't had the death wobble since I rebuilt the front end with new >parts back in 2000. You me you had it rebuilt. You are lucky because the caster must be okay (it is positive enough) be bacuse if it was not it would wobble new front end or not when conditions are right. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
Mike Romain - 09 Jul 2007 02:40 GMT >> I >> haven't had the death wobble since I rebuilt the front end with new [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com No I mean 'I' rebuilt it when 'I' did a frame up restore and glass body job on it in my driveway. I didn't get smashed up as a passenger in the car accident until 2003 which was when I had to stop the heavy stuff.
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Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile... Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Jamie Mello - 31 Jul 2007 00:43 GMT Hey all of you I just got my jeep back from the shop. Yesterday and it turn out the front track bar bushing was worn out. So they replaced it and no more death wobble. Well I just wanted to give you all a update of what was wrong. Thanks all of you for all your Help. I did know that bushing worn out. Can this be done by doing to munch offroading with the jeep with it stock or what???
DougW - 31 Jul 2007 04:45 GMT > Hey all of you I just got my jeep back from the shop. Yesterday and it > turn out the front track bar bushing was worn out. So they replaced it > and no more death wobble. Well I just wanted to give you all a update > of what was wrong. Thanks all of you for all your Help. I did know > that bushing worn out. Can this be done by doing to munch offroading > with the jeep with it stock or what??? The track bar bushing is a wear item. How fast it goes depends on how agressivly you drive.
In my case it's a every 3 year replacement.
Next is the ball joint, but in my case that's the whole assembly.
 Signature -- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://revbeergoggles.com HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors Banks Header - and BEER, in the fridge!
Jamie Mello - 31 Jul 2007 18:13 GMT Hi Thanks for the reply. I did not know that the track bar bushing. Was a wearing item. Thanks Jamie
Peter Stolz - 06 Jul 2007 17:12 GMT >I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift > and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks > now and it is getting old the death wobble comes at about 45 to 50 mph > after I go over a bump and it comes some times when on the highway > going about 45 + when you turn only right but very rarely it will > happen when you turn left so any help will very munch helpful. I'd first check to make sure all the suspension bits are tight. Or it could be a dead shock.
 Signature Pete '84 CJ7 (that I bought new!) factory rebuilt AMC 360, NV4500, Edelbrock carb & intake, MSD, headers, 2.5" duals, homemade on-board air, blah, blah, blah '07 Commander Sport '04 Audi S4 that's bone stock '02 Durango
jbjeep - 06 Jul 2007 17:50 GMT check your rear track bar and its ends and mounting points. check your front track bar and its ends and mounting points. are your tires clean (no mud in the rims)? are they all at the same pressure? are your front wheel bearings good? is your steering stabilizer good? are any of the ends on your front suspension bad? how old are your shocks? could one be going out?
Its often a hard thing to find. All of these things above have caused death wobble for me (98 TJ). Mostly I find that (due to my lift I think) I tend to rip the rear track bar mounts off the rear axle. Why that causes death wobble up front I dont know, but it does. the one thing with the steering stabilizer is that just changing it can mask a biger issue, like a bad rod end in your steering. -jenn
>>I have a 99 tj sport with a 5 speed stick shift with a 2.5 spacer lift >>and keep getting the death wobble almost every day for about 2 weeks >>now and it is getting old the death wobble comes at about 45 to 50 mph >>after I go over a bump and it comes some times when on the highway >>going about 45 + when you turn only right but very rarely it will >>happen when you turn left so any help will very munch helpful.
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