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Car Forum / Jeep / September 2007Advice please: '90 YJ Conversion
Hello, Can anyone point me in the direction of a complete conversion guide for a '90 YJ? I'm kind of new to it all, but I'm hoping to upgrade the following, along with anything else required to do so: -locking differentials (do I need these for both front and rear?), also probably axle upgrades. -40-42'' tires (Was looking at super swampers, but I might be on pavement too much to make them worthwhile), along with enough of a suspension lift. I get lost here, because the guides I usually see are for a maximum of 35" tires (are there laws against larger tires on the road?). -I have a freshly rebuilt stock engine (4.2L straight 6) right now, and I think I want to keep it. (I saw somewhere online that someone got away with 42"s and the stock 4.2). -I'm pretty sure my transmission is stock, would it need to be upgraded to handle the torque requirements of larger tires? I plan on using my rig mostly on desert/rocky trails and pavement, not so much for snow, and rain isn't much of an issue. I realize I'm a total newbie, but you've gotta start somewhere. All help is VERY greatly appreciated! Thanks! -Garrett Tires that big on a Wrangler will require MAJOR suspension work and a lot of fender cutting. Even 35-37" tires take quite a bit of work. If you are a total newbie to lifts in general, this might not be a good undertaking as your first lift project. That said, a spring over axle (SOA) conversion is the easiest way to get the lift you need, but there are drawbacks. You would probably need some lift built in to the springs in addition to the SOA conversion. SOA conversions also have the drawback of axle twist. My suggestion is that if you want to have this much lift is to Goggle SOA conversions and read up on them. There is quite a bit of info on the net. Chris > Hello, > Can anyone point me in the direction of a complete conversion guide [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Thanks! > -Garrett >Tires that big on a Wrangler will require MAJOR suspension work and a >lot of fender cutting. Even 35-37" tires take quite a bit of work. If [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >if you want to have this much lift is to Goggle SOA conversions and read >up on them. There is quite a bit of info on the net. He will have doe very major issues. Beside clearance there will be spring wrap up as stated, (really needs a 4 link setup) a need for much larger/stronger drive axle assemblies (even D60's front and rear would be a bit light for this). Then there will be drive shaft angle problems and you will need axle ratios of at least 5.38 to 1 or deeper too. This is not to say it cannot be done but it is to say it will be no easy task ----------------- TheSnoMan.com Agreed, not only will it take major suspension work, you will have to pretty much completely replace your driveline with (at minimum) 1-ton axles, heavy-duty transfer case/transmission, driveshafts, etc. I think you may have the Pugeot trans, it's not even adequate for a stock application, never mind 42's. You're talking about serious coin and serious work. > Tires that big on a Wrangler will require MAJOR suspension work and a lot > of fender cutting. Even 35-37" tires take quite a bit of work. If you are [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> Thanks! >> -Garrett > I think you may have the Pugeot trans, it's not even adequate for a stock application, never >mind 42's The BA 10/5 was used from 1987 to mid 89 when it was replaced by AX15. That aside the load on a tranny is determined by your effective final drive ratio more than tires alone because for example 30's with 3.31 gears would place more "strain" on tranny than 40's with 5.38's. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com Do a spring over and put it on 33's. You'll love it and it won't break the bank like going to 42's. A wrangler on 42's is completely assinine. You can run 33's on your stock axles, but you cannot lock the rear. To make your wrangler handle 32's is $6000. Minimum. My best advice would be to get a dana 44/ford 8.8 or XJ 8.25 and put it in the rear, locked up with a detroit, 4.56 gears. Get 4.56 gears and a selectable locker for the front. That traction and gear combination will turn 33's thru damn near anything without breaking the bank or a lot of parts. Carl > Hello, > Can anyone point me in the direction of a complete conversion guide [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Thanks! > -Garrett Err to make your wrangler handle 42's, not 32's. Carl > Do a spring over and put it on 33's. You'll love it and it won't break the > bank like going to 42's. A wrangler on 42's is completely assinine. You [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> Thanks! >> -Garrett "This is not to say it cannot be done but it is to say it will be no easy task " -I realize that it will not be easy. I dont expect this to be completed by tomorrow, it's something I plan to work on over a very long time period. "A wrangler on 42's is completely assinine." -I've already got 31"s on there, I don't really want to do a SOA conversion and only increase my tires by 2". I made this page up a few months ago, http://garrett.loy.googlepages.com/wranglerconversion also, http://garrett.loy.googlepages.com/yjinfo basically what i still need to know is, -is there any kind of federal/state of CA law against having 40+ inch tires on a personal vehicle? or where would I find out? - "you will have to pretty much completely replace your driveline with (at minimum) 1-ton axles, heavy-duty transfer case/transmission, driveshafts, etc." given that I have the A/X-15, do I still require a new transmission/ transfer case? how about motor? Thanks! > "This is not to say it cannot be done but it is to say it will be > no easy task " [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thanks! Here's the site for California Law through 2006: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html You are probably, though not necessarily, safe if you limit your search to the Vehicle Code, but the law is a funny thing, and I am not a lawyer. Happy hunting. > Here's the site for California Law through 2006: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Happy hunting. Perfect! thanks! There you go again, the little Psychopath, jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions, successes, manliness, Super Southern California surfer body, Christian family, and name. What a jealous little draft dodging senile coward from 12.205.158.32 AT&T WorldNet Services ATT, Mediacom Communications Corp MEDIACOMCC-12-205-156-0-GULF-BREEZE-Florida, that of course, doesn't have a DD214, it had to have served our country for that. Who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its self, with its goat obsession/fetish, where it writes via remailers, to no one's surprise. Like when the other kids laughed at its attempt to use foul language in elementary school play grounds, but its just gibberish. Too senile to remember what he last wrote, like the rest of Florida. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking it's rabid head off, me too, me too. And is too afraid to use your name, address, or even sign your statement as any man would, totally worthless! Posted pornography at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com As a member of the moral majority I know what porn is when I see it! But now worth the time to forward this low life to: abuse@mchsi.com, fraud@mchsi.com, fraud@4AX.COM, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net, abuse@teranews.com for forgery. I thought your attacks were just personal disagreements, but with passing of my country's Independents Day, I realize these attacks are stemming from my love of God and America, and that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave it, so get the f*ck out! Considering the source, which you're a habitual lair, so these plus your other accusations would be thrown out of court. When are you going to take responsibility for yourself, and become a man?????????? People that follow astrology, know the traits you have listed are a hundred eighty out from any Capricorn. Forwarded to: alt.binaries.pictures.autos, alt.binaries.automobile.pictures groups so they may to see what an a**hole you really are!!!!! Is this what your Psychologist wrote about you? They don't fit any Capricorn, sounds like a spoil Leo. You're a LIAR and never been in the Service much less Vietnam, as you suggest!!!!! If you think I'm a Psycho, then report me to my friends at the San Diego Sheriffs Department. I'm just really curious as to who you think will believe you over any man responsible enough to list his name and address here and in every place I know of????? All you can do is lie, as most everything you have said contradicts it's self. You know what they say, once a faggot coward, always a faggot coward. I won't give up until traitors like you are gone from these groups I participate and see you've pretty well killed this group I will devote my life to reminding your groups who you are!!!!!!! I would appreciate the name and address of these trolls, Square Wheel: S0106000ea6ba70e7.vn.shawcable.net 24.86.24.251 intrepidator@shaw.ca and 24bit: 12.205.158.32 AT&T WorldNet Services ATT Mediacom Communications Corp. I will keep your name in confidence, kindly email LWHughes3rd@aol.com or LWHughes@hughes.net Sincerely, Llewellyn W. (Bill) Hughes III  SignatureGod Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Here's the site for California Law through 2006: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Happy hunting. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:59:13 -0700, "L.W. \(Bill\) Hughes III" <LWBillHughes@hughes.net> wrote: > There you go again, the little Psychopath, jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, >over the fact that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > Sincerely, > Llewellyn W. (Bill) Hughes III Are you that confused poor Little Lump, Lump, did you finally blow your secondary brain cell? That means you only have one left, you won't be able to look at kiddy porn and masturbate at the same time, Mr. Psychopath. You should never be allowed around children, Pervert. >> Here's the site for California Law through 2006: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> Happy hunting. There you go again, the little Psychopath, jealous, REALLY JEALOUS, over the fact that I once own a '37 Lasalle, ranting over my documents, possessions, successes, manliness, Super Southern California surfer body, Christian family, and name. What a jealous little draft dodging senile coward from 12.205.158.32 AT&T WorldNet Services ATT, Mediacom Communications Corp MEDIACOMCC-12-205-156-0-GULF-BREEZE-Florida, that of course, doesn't have a DD214, it had to have served our country for that. Who's only way to get attention is to make a fool of its self, with its goat obsession/fetish, where it writes via remailers, to no one's surprise. Like when the other kids laughed at its attempt to use foul language in elementary school play grounds, but its just gibberish. Too senile to remember what he last wrote, like the rest of Florida. You remind me of a little rat dog, like a Mexican Chiwawa with its senseless barking it's rabid head off, me too, me too. And is too afraid to use your name, address, or even sign your statement as any man would, totally worthless! Posted pornography at: news:0u7g43dkje4pdkqi07hl66s8kpifo564k1@4ax.com As a member of the moral majority I know what porn is when I see it! But now worth the time to forward this low life to: abuse@mchsi.com, fraud@mchsi.com, fraud@4AX.COM, abuse@aioe.org, admin@cox.net, abuse@teranews.com for forgery. I thought your attacks were just personal disagreements, but with passing of my country's Independents Day, I realize these attacks are stemming from my love of God and America, and that's what you've been doing all along is declaring your hatred for the United States of America, with each declaration of my signature, but just too cowardly to be a terrorist. It's America, love it, or leave it, so get the f*ck out! Considering the source, which you're a habitual lair, so these plus your other accusations would be thrown out of court. When are you going to take responsibility for yourself, and become a man?????????? People that follow astrology, know the traits you have listed are a hundred eighty out from any Capricorn. Forwarded to: alt.binaries.pictures.autos, alt.binaries.automobile.pictures groups so they may to see what an a**hole you really are!!!!! Is this what your Psychologist wrote about you? They don't fit any Capricorn, sounds like a spoil Leo. You're a LIAR and never been in the Service much less Vietnam, as you suggest!!!!! If you think I'm a Psycho, then report me to my friends at the San Diego Sheriffs Department. I'm just really curious as to who you think will believe you over any man responsible enough to list his name and address here and in every place I know of????? All you can do is lie, as most everything you have said contradicts it's self. You know what they say, once a faggot coward, always a faggot coward. I won't give up until traitors like you are gone from these groups I participate and see you've pretty well killed this group I will devote my life to reminding your groups who you are!!!!!!! I would appreciate the name and address of these trolls, Square Wheel: S0106000ea6ba70e7.vn.shawcable.net 24.86.24.251 intrepidator@shaw.ca and 24bit: 12.205.158.32 AT&T WorldNet Services ATT Mediacom Communications Corp. I will keep your name in confidence, kindly email LWHughes3rd@aol.com or LWHughes@hughes.net Sincerely, Llewellyn W. (Bill) Hughes III SignatureGod Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Are you that confused poor Little Lump, Lump, did you finally blow > your secondary brain cell? That means you only have one left, you > won't be able to look at kiddy porn and masturbate at the same time, > Mr. Psychopath. > You should never be allowed around children, Pervert. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >- "you will have to pretty much completely replace your driveline with >(at minimum) 1-ton axles, heavy-duty transfer case/transmission, >driveshafts, etc." >given that I have the A/X-15, do I still require a new transmission/ >transfer case? how about motor? You will need stronger axles but stock drive train can live IF you gear the axles properly. Biggest mistake people make is that they refuse to run 5.38 or deeper gears with big tires like this and this places a LOT of strain on drive train and this is where the need for HD trannies and Tcase is born because they try to use a big engine and tranny gears or Tcase gears to overcome the big tires and tall gears. Also kong as you take the time to properly gear it it will do surprizing well with stock engine but I cannot stress enough that gears will make you or break you on this project. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com If that's what you want, go for it. Personally, I think a Wranlger on 42's just plain looks stupid. Too much tire. It's too tall and wide to really run any trails (at least where I'm from) If you have the AX15 it might be OK, but you'll want a gear-driven t-case. Your best bet is to get two t-cases and run one in low all the time. Dana60 1 tons, disc brakes front and rear. I still reccomend the Detroit out back and a selectable up front. The frame is going to need re-enforcement. I dont know at what points, but you will have to see where it flexes and eliminate it. Anti-wrap bars will be a challenge because of the height. You don't want to limit articulation, but you don't want to allow wrap. I suppose you could mount them on the side of the frame after the centerpoint to add legnth, but make these strong as you'll then also be using them as a center-slider. Custom over-the knuckle steering is a must. Please bear in mind that YJ's came stock with sway and trak bars, without these installed your vehicle may not pass inspection. You'll have to do a custom job on the trak bars. Your stock steering box won't be able to turn the 42's, you'll need to upgrade it, though I'm not sure with what. A more powerful pump and stouter box are definately in order. The 4.2L will probably turn the tires if you have the right gearing (and the first t-case in low), but figure 45-55mph will be your limit, and 2-5mpg. Most states have lift laws, and I do not think this will be street legal without a drop bumper and massive mud flaps. Plan on getting stopped a lot. It's going to be a ton of work and $$ just to get it to reliably turn 42's. Even more on top of that to make it street legal. Carl > "This is not to say it cannot be done but it is to say it will be > no easy task " [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thanks! By the way, there is nothing wrong with going SOA just to increase tire size by 2-4". It's not just about tire size, it's about added articulaton and clearance. http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d96/carlsaiyed/?start=60 The above link is my old 89 YJ sprung over on 33's. On page one is the XJ on 31's. Carl > "This is not to say it cannot be done but it is to say it will be > no easy task " [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thanks! http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/uceelkins.htm so this guy is just a moron who gets 1-2 MPG? Not being sarcastic, actually curious, lol. Thanks, Garrett > http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/uceelkins.htm > so this guy is just a moron who gets 1-2 MPG? > Not being sarcastic, actually curious, lol. > Thanks, > Garrett I could be wrong, but I am going to cry poser at that Jeep. First of all, if I took on a project like that, I would not do it with a 4cyl Jeep. They are a bit low on power as it is, and the power it takes just to turn the extra weight of the tires would make it worse, even with correct gearing. The other thing is that if you look at that picture, he will not get much articulation out of that rig before he has tire to body interference, especially if the wheels aren't turned straight. Again as someone else said, in many states that much lift would be illegal as well. Chris >I could be wrong, but I am going to cry poser at that Jeep. First of >all, if I took on a project like that, I would not do it with a 4cyl >Jeep. They are a bit low on power as it is, and the power it takes just >to turn the extra weight of the tires would make it worse, even with >correct gearing. Actually it could work better than you think off road with a 4 banger IF it had like 6.14 gears in it with those tires. It would never do well at a high speed cruise (not because of RPM but because of drag vs power availible but it would play fairly well off road. at times. I had a freind that had a 4 banger with 35's and 5.13's and it did surprizing well off road and surprized more than one person that looked under hood. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com I have to agree with snow. Properly geared, the 2.5L does great off road. It will never do well in mud bogs or on the highway, but as far as trails and general wheeling, it does just fine. Carl >>I could be wrong, but I am going to cry poser at that Jeep. First of >>all, if I took on a project like that, I would not do it with a 4cyl [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com It's easy to tell those that have never driven a Jeep with anything larger than a four bagger: http://www.billhughes.com/pismo.htm God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com > I have to agree with snow. Properly geared, the 2.5L does great off road. It > will never do well in mud bogs or on the highway, but as far as trails and > general wheeling, it does just fine. > > Carl SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Bill, That's a great video that I've seen a few times. I understand your point, but to someone less understanding, that could come across 'insulting'. I really dont give a rat's a.s, but do you think comments like that could be part of the reason for the trouble you've been getting? The fact of the matter remains that properly geared, the 2.5L provides adequate power off road while in low range. Carl > It's easy to tell those that have never driven a Jeep with anything > larger than a four bagger: http://www.billhughes.com/pismo.htm [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> Carl Hi Carl, That's why I corrected your post. You might actually mislead someone into buying a four banger. They're great for hauling around a Volkswagen, but put a transfer case in it and could get out of it's own way, let alone go off-road. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Carl SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Bill, I suppose we have to agree to disagree here. I was very pleased with the 2.5L's performance in my 89 YJ, sprung over on 33's with 4.10 gearing. Highway included, I was not dissapointed. Drive it like a Jeep, not a sports car. Carl > Hi Carl, > That's why I corrected your post. You might actually mislead someone [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> Carl Agreed. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Carl SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >The fact of the matter remains that properly geared, the 2.5L provides >adequate power off road while in low range. It is a great mill for this properly geared. Cheap to feed (longer wheeling time), easy to cool and weighs less too. Many years ago (in 70's) I had a freind that lived near NC/Tenn border that had a old 51 Dodge military truck that looked like a Jeep on steriods with a flat head six and a top speed of about 45. It weighed about 3 tons and had military type tires around 36 inches tall in it and a engine driven winch. It was a tank off road and would go anywhere you pointed it and had right amount of power and gears for off road too. (first gear low range was about 2 MPH tops) If hill was too steep to climb you could winch yourself up in short order with good line speed and never worry about battery dying or winch overheating. I had a chance to buy that things years ago and kick myself for never doing it. It was 100% stock and it great shape too. Once on a old loging road we feel through a old wood bridge about 4 or 5 feet into creak below with a few feet of water in it. We simply drove down the creek for a while until we found a place to climb out and blaze a trail through brush and small trees to get back hillside to old logging road. It was a blast to drive off road. A V8 would not have made it any more fun to drive or able. The silly thing even supported a snokle but we never used that feature. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >> The fact of the matter remains that properly geared, the 2.5L provides >> adequate power off road while in low range. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com OK, I need to explain myself a bit more here. I agree that the 4 cyl will do OK in a rig set up properly. However, the picture I responded to was a YJ with 42" tires and obviously not much capability of articulating over rocky terrain. If that rig had even looked like it could off-road on more than a farm field or 2 rut road, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it. The rig in the picture looked like it would be able to go mudding with the tires it had, but then the 4 cyl would more than likely be inadequate. I guess I was analyzing the whole picture more than just the engine. Personally, I wouldn't build a 4 cylinder Wrangler, but that is my personal preference. Chris You will need stronger axles like these Rockwells, but at least you already have the leaf springs: http://billhughes.com/TJleafSprings/ God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/uceelkins.htm > so this guy is just a moron who gets 1-2 MPG? > Not being sarcastic, actually curious, lol. > Thanks, > Garrett SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com No, he's a poser who wants to look cool. That would actually make a great mud rig if it weren't for the four-cylinder. > http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/uceelkins.htm > so this guy is just a moron who gets 1-2 MPG? > Not being sarcastic, actually curious, lol. > Thanks, > Garrett Not saying he's a moron, but he will also get zero articulation. He would be a lot better off to run some 37's. Did you check out the pics in the link? What kind of wheeling do you want to do? Carl > http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/uceelkins.htm > so this guy is just a moron who gets 1-2 MPG? > Not being sarcastic, actually curious, lol. > Thanks, > Garrett > http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/uceelkins.htm > so this guy is just a moron who gets 1-2 MPG? > Not being sarcastic, actually curious, lol. > Thanks, > Garrett Probably gets a few MPG less and has a bit of lugging in first. Doubt he ever sees top gear. Doesn't say if he regeared the diffs or has a locker but if he has a locker the axles aren't going to last too long if he puts any force on them. Probably a swamper/mudbuggy. SignatureDougW Garrett, pay no attention to Carl, he's a moron. Trust me, I've actually met him. He knew very little about a year or so ago, now he knows everything. I know plenty of people who run 42's and 44's. Carl just assumes everyone has a pea brain like his. go with the rubicon 4.5" and do a SOA. You'll be fine. for the law, just call the state patrol and ask em, theyll tell U pronto. and where to look for the law too. have fun. like the pic. >http://4wheeldrive.about.com/library/uc/uceelkins.htm >so this guy is just a moron who gets 1-2 MPG? >Not being sarcastic, actually curious, lol. >Thanks, >Garrett > "This is not to say it cannot be done but it is to say it will be > no easy task " [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > (at minimum) 1-ton axles, heavy-duty transfer case/transmission, > driveshafts, etc." > given that I have the A/X-15, do I still require a new transmission/ > transfer case? Almost certainly, if you are going to drive it places where you need 2.5 feet of clearance. >how about motor? If your final drive ratio is low enough you should be OK but you won't be laying any rubber. If you really want that much lift, tire clearance, you need to decide about cutting the fenders, I'd just hack away and upgrade the drive train. If you want to keep the fenders, I'd get rubicon extreme 4 1/2" lift kit, and use those springs on a spring over application. That should get you the lift that you need. But you will need to do the SOA right, with the 4 link with those tires. Then, research your axles, and go from there. Lockers or not depends on your wheeling. sounds like desert to me, so why not a limited slip in the rear and a locker in the front? and gear it as low as you can in the axles, you'll need it to turn that rubber and still have any power. >> "This is not to say it cannot be done but it is to say it will be >> no easy task " [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >If your final drive ratio is low enough you should be OK but you won't be >laying any rubber. |
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