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Car Forum / Jeep / May 2008strange brake behavior
While wheeling a few days ago, the jeep was at an extreme angle and the engine was about to stall. I was driving off a ledge using the brakes. I realeased the brakes to see if the Jeep would roll forward a bit and then when I pressed on the brake pedal again it went to the floor with no resistance, I let it out and pressed again and it went down most of the way but I think there was some resistance just before the floor. It seemed like the brakes where being kept applied despite my foot being off the pedal. I shut off the engine and restarted and everything was fine for the rest of the trip and it was also fine the next day around town. There was no fluid loss, the reservoir is still full. Any ideas what could have caused this? Thanks I'm no Brake Wizard, but the only time my Brakes ever went to the floor is when my Master Cylinder piston let hydraulic fluid bypass the seals i.e I had a bad Master Cyclinder (rebuilt). Many (I'm sure not all) rebuilt master cylinders are not perfectly honed and polished. I chucked my rebuilt and bought a new Master Cylinder and the thing works perfect. Are you using a rebuilt master cylinder? This might be the problem > While wheeling a few days ago, the jeep was at an extreme angle and > the engine was about to stall. I was driving off a ledge using the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks > I'm no Brake Wizard, but the only time my Brakes ever went to the floor is > when my Master Cylinder piston let hydraulic fluid bypass the seals i.e I [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > - Show quoted text - As far as I know it is the original master cylinder. Thanks It's hard to believe, but the Jeep could have been at an angle extreme enough for the master cylinder to suck air. That's scary. The part about the brakes being applied even though you had your foot off the pedal is strange though. I would probably replace the master or at least tear it down for inspection just in case. Earle > While wheeling a few days ago, the jeep was at an extreme angle and > the engine was about to stall. I was driving off a ledge using the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks > It's hard to believe, but the Jeep could have been at an angle extreme > enough for the master cylinder to suck air. That's scary. The part about [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What's really strange is that no fluid is missing and the brakes did not require bleeding. My best guess so far after looking at the FSM is that the atmospheric pressure valve could be leaking. This would mean that even with the foot off the pedal there is still no vaccuum at the backside of the diafragm, causing the brakes to stay applied by the booster itself via the secondary pushrod. The brake pedal could come back up moving only the primary pushrod. What would you recommend, change the booster or the entire master cylinder and booster assembly? I'm leaning towards replacing the booster only for now. There:fore you know both cups failed at the same time. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm On May 5, 12:50 pm, "Earle Horton" <earleh_nos...@live.com> wrote: > It's hard to believe, but the Jeep could have been at an angle extreme > enough for the master cylinder to suck air. That's scary. The part about [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What's really strange is that no fluid is missing and the brakes did not require bleeding. My best guess so far after looking at the FSM is that the atmospheric pressure valve could be leaking. This would mean that even with the foot off the pedal there is still no vaccuum at the backside of the diafragm, causing the brakes to stay applied by the booster itself via the secondary pushrod. The brake pedal could come back up moving only the primary pushrod. What would you recommend, change the booster or the entire master cylinder and booster assembly? I'm leaning towards replacing the booster only for now. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > There:fore you know both cups failed at the same time. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com > http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm And what 'logic' brings you to that conclusion? You just made a statement of /assumed/ fact. How about something to support your assumption? Specifics, please. > On May 5, 12:50 pm, "Earle Horton" <earleh_nos...@live.com> wrote: >> It's hard to believe, but the Jeep could have been at an angle extreme [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **  Signature"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching." -- Army Officer's Guide nrs, if the Master Cylinder piston has bad seals, it will allow the brake pedal to go all the way to the floor and you wont have any loss of fluid. The fluid still stays in the brake system, but it's not being applied to the calipers. I'm betting on a bad Master Cylinder. But I'm no Brake Wizard. Take my advice with a grain of salt. Have a Brake expert check it out. > There:fore you know both cups failed at the same time. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** The part that gets me is the intermittent part. However, if it is indeed the master cylinder it will eventually go all the way to the floor and stay there. I have had booster failures before and "usually" it makes the pedal get real hard. Earle > nrs, > if the Master Cylinder piston has bad seals, it will allow the brake pedal [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> >> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > The part that gets me is the intermittent part. However, if it is indeed > the master cylinder it will eventually go all the way to the floor and stay [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Ok, I'm pretty much convinced it's the Master Cylinder. I'll have it checked by a brake expert. Thanks. On Mon, 5 May 2008 14:09:07 -0700, "L.W.\(ßill\)Hughes III" <BillHughes@billhughes.com> wrote: > There:fore you know both cups failed at the same time. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com > http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm You have NO clue Fat Dumpier, let the man find out from someone who may know, instead of your archaistic bullshit! >On May 5, 12:50 pm, "Earle Horton" <earleh_nos...@live.com> wrote: >> It's hard to believe, but the Jeep could have been at an angle extreme [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** Message-ID: <hY-dnTlNRKNK25DVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@giganews.com> I was required to take the officer's test, while in Advanced Individual Training, which means I have a 59 IQ, and you didn't! God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm How about losing the power brake boost vacuum? It will feel like the pedal goes all the way to the floor, pumping it once will give you a slight amount of pedal pressure as the system switches to manual mode. > It's hard to believe, but the Jeep could have been at an angle extreme > enough for the master cylinder to suck air. That's scary. The part [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> Thanks Hi Roy, No. To test for yourself, with the engine off, pump your brakes the approximant six or so times to blow off the vacuum. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm > How about losing the power brake boost vacuum? It will feel like the > pedal goes all the way to the floor, pumping it once will give you a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > "nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b4ab20cf-fc1f-407b-b12b-9583f5a054dd@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > >> While wheeling a few days ago, the jeep was at an extreme angle and > >> the engine was about to stall. I was driving off a ledge using the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >> > >> Thanks ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** On Mon, 5 May 2008 17:21:41 -0700, "L.W.\(ßill\)Hughes III" <BillHughes@billhughes.com> wrote: >Hi Roy, > No. To test for yourself, with the engine off, pump your brakes the >approximant six or so times to blow off the vacuum. > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com > http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm Here are more Hieroglyphics to be translated! Direct Quote: "Spelling & grammer has never ment anything to me!" Message-ID: <hY-dnTlNRKNK25DVnZ2dnUVZ_tjinZ2d@giganews.com> I was required to take the officer's test, while in Advanced Individual Training, which means I have a 59 IQ, and you didn't! God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm > How about losing the power brake boost vacuum? It will feel like the > pedal goes all the way to the floor, pumping it once will give you a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Show quoted text - All my driveway testing (following the FSM instructions) comes out just perfect. Anybody who tests it now will conclude I imagined the whole incident and wonder what I was smoking! >> How about losing the power brake boost vacuum? It will feel like the >> pedal goes all the way to the floor, pumping it once will give you a [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > just perfect. Anybody who tests it now will conclude I imagined the > whole incident and wonder what I was smoking! I had a brake booster that did that once. Worked fine in the driveway, but enter a parking lot with a lot of Mercedes and Audis in it, the pedal got rock hard and you had to stand on it just to slow down. After a couple of close calls I got a new booster. Earle >>> How about losing the power brake boost vacuum? It will feel like the >>> pedal goes all the way to the floor, pumping it once will give you a [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Earle Funny, I have a similar reaction at the beach when I'm around 20 somethin's in bikinis. But I don't think I need a new booster. Spdloader All it takes is a sticky check valve. The original problem seems to have occurred in a really non level position while running at idle. >> All my driveway testing (following the FSM instructions) comes out >> just perfect. Anybody who tests it now will conclude I imagined the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Earle > While wheeling a few days ago, the jeep was at an extreme angle and > the engine was about to stall. I was driving off a ledge using the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks Thanks to everyone for your replies. I'll post the resolution once it gets sorted out. > While wheeling a few days ago, the jeep was at an extreme angle and > the engine was about to stall. I was driving off a ledge using the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks I had it checked out by a trusted shop and they found that the master cylinder was leaking a bit internally. It was replaced and seems to be working fine. I'll try to test it at extreme angles soon! Here is a link to a picture of the extreme angles I'm talking about: http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/neale_rs/trips/Mina%20Hidalgo/?action=vi ew¤t=DSC07390.jpg
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