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Car Forum / Jeep / July 2009Engine Dies Suddenly
My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and that helped a bit .. engine quits but the electrical power stays on.. sometimes just shifting into neutral and restarting solves the problem .. other times several restarts will start the engine back .. had Jeep to change the fuel filter .. could it be a dirty throttle body sensor ?? .. thanks for any help > My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and that > helped a bit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > filter .. could it be a dirty throttle body sensor ?? .. thanks for any > help This has all the earmarks of an electrical problem: loose and/or corroded connectors, a short some where, or a broken wire making intermittent contact (had that on an alternator fuse wire not long ago). First step: check all the ground wires and connections. Hard to say where to look next - it can be a tedious process to find crap like this.  SignatureWill Honea >> My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and >> that helped a bit [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > to say where to look next - it can be a tedious process to find crap > like this. Start with the basics. Make sure the battery connectors are not lose. Pulling the codes is the next step. AutoZone and other places usually do this for free. Although buying a scantool is a good investment. SignatureDougW Yeah pull those codes. AFAIK A weak link are those Engine Speed Sensors (CranKshaft position Sensors), at least on the 6 cylinder engines. I think some dealers change them at every major engine service. CamShaft position Sensor should set a hard fault but the ESS/CKS might not. Maybe a defective fuel pump relay or fuel pump. On other vehicles it is the ignition switch. good luck! Signaturelater, dave AKA vwdoc1 88 XJ 4.0 auto >>> My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and >>> that helped a bit [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > usually do this for free. Although buying a scantool is a good > investment. thanks, started reading more and found that the sudden dies and hard starts are symptoms of failing CPS or CKS sensors .. now to try and see how hard to replace this ... 140,000 on this jeep and many I have heard fail in this time ... will start looking forward to this on my 2000 XJ as well .. any help in fixing this is always appreciated > Yeah pull those codes. > AFAIK [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> usually do this for free. Although buying a scantool is a good >> investment. > thanks, started reading more and found that the sudden dies and hard > starts are symptoms of failing CPS or CKS sensors .. now to try and > see how hard to replace this ... 140,000 on this jeep and many I have > heard fail in this time ... will start looking forward to this on my > 2000 XJ as well .. any help in fixing this is always appreciated A failing CPS can cause that issue, but first make sure the connector isn't corroded. When mine was failing it would do so when the vehicle was warmed up and just as I came to a stop it would shudder then die. Replacing the CPS can be a bit of a pain because of where it is located. Links are for my 93ZJ, so it won't be the same as your WJ. http://www.revbeergoggles.com/cps/ http://www.revbeergoggles.com/Fixes/diagnostics.html#CPSdetails SignatureDougW Hi Mindy, How many miles on your spark plugs? Make sure you connections at the throttle valve sensor are good. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com http://www.billhughes.com/jeep_bookmark.htm > My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and that > helped a bit > .. engine quits but the electrical power stays on.. sometimes just shifting > into neutral and restarting solves the problem .. other times several > restarts will start the engine back .. had Jeep to change the fuel filter .. > could it be a dirty throttle body sensor ?? .. thanks for any help On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:09:26 -0700, Lou-Ellen (Twinkletoes) Hughes III wrote: > Hi Mindy, Hi Dork. > How many miles on your spark plugs? Jheap just checked the fuel filter; you think they wouldn't check the plugs on a toy that old? > Make sure you connections at the throttle valve sensor are good. Great answer, especially since it was already suggested. You have a mind like a steel crap. BTW, howcum nobody ever seems to agree with your <ahem> diagnostics? Could it be because you haven't touched a Jheap in the last 10 years (except your own POS), and even then they were all toys made 30+ years ago (like your own REAL POS). You need a new hobby, Bill. Something as simple as you are, like scraping barnacles off toy boats. > God Bless Armenia, Bill 00000000000 > mailto:BillHughes@billhughes.com [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > .. >> could it be a dirty throttle body sensor ?? .. thanks for any help >My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and that >helped a bit >.. engine quits but the electrical power stays on.. sometimes just shifting >into neutral and restarting solves the problem .. other times several >restarts will start the engine back .. had Jeep to change the fuel filter .. >could it be a dirty throttle body sensor ?? .. thanks for any help One post/thread is enough. Making multiple threads will result in confusing and conflicting advice... With all of the trolls and jerks roaming these hallways, you have to pick on one person who is very polite but posts the same question twice? You'll notice that there was only one reply to the first request, the second request brought answers. Sheesh. Lighten up, no need being a netcop. Of if you really need to chastise someone, go after the trolls. K. On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:41:47 -0500, "Mindy" <drranchtx@nospamearthlink.net> wrote: >My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and that >helped a bit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >.. >could it be a dirty throttle body sensor ?? .. thanks for any help One post/thread is enough. Making multiple threads will result in confusing and conflicting advice... >With all of the trolls and jerks roaming these hallways, you have to pick on >one person who is very polite but posts the same question twice? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Sheesh. Lighten up, Kate, I offer good advice, I don't often jump on people, but you instead just climb all over me like I'm a can of sh.t. Talk about lightening up, maybe you should? >no need being a netcop. All I said was one post would be more likely to get a good answer. I didn't call the poster a jerk, say anything derogitory about him/her, but you seem to feel that you can instead just call me something that is nasty. Gee, what'd I ever do bad to you? >Of if you really need to >chastise someone, go after the trolls. Have a really, really good day. Oh, and Kate, did you reply to the poster's original or second post? No, you didn't, all you did was find time to climb on my butt, something that I hope made you feel really much better about life in general. Again, have a great day, you deserve it: you've managed to put me in my place, that was really nice of you. >K. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >One post/thread is enough. Making multiple threads will result in >confusing and conflicting advice... It could have been my fault when I posted what I considered important information in the Subject line. I prefer to know what the thread is..........re: 2001 Jeep GC before it changes to something else unrelated. lol I think we are all trying to be helpful here! <g> >>One post/thread is enough. Making multiple threads will result in >>confusing and conflicting advice... Woah Peter, I wasn't jumping. Honestly. The tone may have come across all wrong in text, as it often does. If so, my apologies. It's just there is so much a.s biting in here these days that I hated to see someone looking for a helping hand getting scolded for a double post. After looking over my original post, I can see why it irked you and looks like I am guilty of the exact same thing I was accusing you of. Let's just hug and make up , ok? K. On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 22:36:18 -0500, "Kate" <nothappenin@thispoint.intime> wrote: >With all of the trolls and jerks roaming these hallways, you have to pick >on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Sheesh. Lighten up, Kate, I offer good advice, I don't often jump on people, but you instead just climb all over me like I'm a can of sh.t. Talk about lightening up, maybe you should? >no need being a netcop. All I said was one post would be more likely to get a good answer. I didn't call the poster a jerk, say anything derogitory about him/her, but you seem to feel that you can instead just call me something that is nasty. Gee, what'd I ever do bad to you? >Of if you really need to >chastise someone, go after the trolls. Have a really, really good day. Oh, and Kate, did you reply to the poster's original or second post? No, you didn't, all you did was find time to climb on my butt, something that I hope made you feel really much better about life in general. Again, have a great day, you deserve it: you've managed to put me in my place, that was really nice of you. >K. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >One post/thread is enough. Making multiple threads will result in >confusing and conflicting advice... > Woah Peter, . . . . > After looking over my original post, I can see why it irked you You can ??? I can't. I thought your original was spot_on. On most days, coming here is met with bearing witness to cyber_wars, with one side taking cover in the trenches, and the the other side armed with nuclear warheads. Then along comes a legitmate post (or two ..... but who's counting), and a lurking, aspiring policy_maker imposes a wrist_slap. Bewildering, at best. >Woah Peter, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >K. Absolutely, virtual 'hug' sent! > My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and > that helped a bit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > change the fuel filter .. could it be a dirty throttle body sensor ?? > .. thanks for any help Is it throwing any codes? If you haven't checked, you should--many auto parts stores will run a code scan for you for free. P0320 No Crank Reference Signal at PCM No reference signal (crankshaft position sensor) detected during engine cranking. >> My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and >> that helped a bit [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Is it throwing any codes? If you haven't checked, you should--many auto > parts stores will run a code scan for you for free. > P0320 > No Crank Reference Signal at PCM > No reference signal (crankshaft position sensor) detected during > engine cranking. 4.0 engine, CPS located on the front of the transmission housing, 11:00 position. 4.7 engine, CPS located just above the starter motor. SignatureDougW > P0320 > No Crank Reference Signal at PCM > No reference signal (crankshaft position sensor) detected during > engine cranking. Well, that in conjunction with the symptoms you are describing seems pretty clearly to point to the Crankshaft Position Sensor or its associated wiring. Clean the contacts and go over the wiring with a good light and a magnifier before you spend money to replace the sensor. Remember to use jackstands or blocks when you get under it, not just the jack (I'm sure you know to do that but I'd rather tell you something you already know than find out later that a Jeep fell on you). Especially make sure that nothing in the shift linkage is pulling, pushing, or otherwise hitting on the wiring--I don't know how likely that is on the 2001 but your mention that shifting into neutral sometimes corrects the problem suggests that as a possibility. >>> My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and >>> that helped a bit [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> Is it throwing any codes? If you haven't checked, you should--many >> auto parts stores will run a code scan for you for free. thanks for the words of caution... one never can give to much of that .. I may bit the bullet and let the pros do the change out .. a bit too technical to reach and rain for the next 3 days .. I'll give thanks for the rain here in dry Texas and pay to have a job done right ... I notice the last time I was in the shop, saw they charge for hooking up dynastic on a chart of charges ... do they give me a whole sheet of problems or does the Jeep dealership keep it as their secrets ... what I wondering is if I should say simply "Change the CPS" and save money on hooking up to computer ... just trying to be cheap..ooops ... save money : ) >> P0320 >> No Crank Reference Signal at PCM [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> Is it throwing any codes? If you haven't checked, you should--many >>> auto parts stores will run a code scan for you for free. > thanks for the words of caution... one never can give to much of that .. I > may bit the bullet and let the pros do the change out .. a bit too [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > hooking up to computer ... just trying to be cheap..ooops ... save money > : ) That charge on the menu is generally for just the diaganostics with no repair, ie, just reading the codes. Most techs will want to read the codes for themselves before they change out the part, even if that's what you ask for. I always did, anyway. Never charged for that if I did the repair, as the diagnostic test is usually figured into the repair time. SignatureOld Crow '82 FLTC(P) 'Mistress Pearl' '87 FLTC 'Fugly' '61 F-100 BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, SLOB#13, MAMBM >thanks for the words of caution... one never can give to much of that .. I >may bit the bullet and let the pros do the change out .. a bit too technical [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >if I should say simply "Change the CPS" and save money on hooking up to >computer ... just trying to be cheap..ooops ... save money : ) Be very careful about specifiying what is to be replaced or repaired! Most shops in most states are required to do what you request even if they know for a fact that this will not resolve your problem. A case of consumer protection 'gone wrong' but it happens. Instead you really should go in and just give them the symptoms, and you can certainly tell them you scanned it and got the code for the CPS (just give them the Pxxxx DTC number, they'll look it up). But if you say 'replace the CPS' and in fact the problem is a bad wire on the other end of the connector, they are generally going to do what you requested... >>> P0320 >>> No Crank Reference Signal at PCM [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>>> Is it throwing any codes? If you haven't checked, you should--many >>>> auto parts stores will run a code scan for you for free. >thanks for the words of caution... one never can give to much of that .. I >may bit the bullet and let the pros do the change out .. a bit too technical >to reach and rain for the next 3 days .. I'll give thanks for the rain here >in dry Texas and pay to have a job done right ... Mindy, As others have suggested, as often as not the problem can be that the connectors just need to be cleaned/exercised. >P0320 > No Crank Reference Signal at PCM > No reference signal (crankshaft position sensor) detected during engine >cranking. If nothing else, check the connectors to teh CPS... > rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys > P0320 > No Crank Reference Signal at PCM > No reference signal (crankshaft position sensor) detected during engine > cranking. Mindy, just for your information and maybe a little peace of mind about what this turns out to be, there are two separate signals the tell the brain about where the engine is in its' rotation and the names people give them lead to confusion. One is mounted on the distributor (or some other shaft geared to the camshaft for distributorless igntitions) and its' sole purpose is to identify when the number one cylinder is the next one to top dead center so that the computer knows which cylinder and which stroke (exhaust or compression) that cylinder is on when it sees the sensor that reads the crankshaft position indicate the next index tooth for cylinder one. Two separate sensors, two totally different locations, two totally different repairs. A good mechanic can diagnose which signal is bad - probably from the code you read and you can bet he will check it before plunging ahead. Just don't be surprised if what he fixes is up top under the hood instead of down under the vehicle. Saw your reference to the Texas weather - I'd let someone with an air conditioned garage do the work as well ;) Seems like every time I drive down to visit the family in Central Texas the weather tries the Noah-and-the-Ark routine so look out - gotta be in Killeen week after next. Flood warning! SignatureWill Honea >> My 2001 GC's engines suddenly stops ... .. tried fuel cleaners and >> that helped a bit [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Is it throwing any codes? If you haven't checked, you should--many auto >parts stores will run a code scan for you for free. Won't the GC give codes with the CEL flash method? My TJ (2001 also) would... Might save a trip to the parts store. |
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