 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Jeep / April 2004hooking up plug wires on distributor
Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. Plug wires all burned up too. Now you get the new distributor and plug wires. Can you just choose whatever terminal you want on the distributor to be #1 and go around in sequence as long as you run the plug wires to the right cylinders? I know on older VWs there is a specific #1 terminal because the distributors are designed to slightly retard cylinder #3 because it's behind the oil cooler so it tends to run hotter and retarding it a little bit helps it to not run as hot as it would if it was running at the same advance the other cylinders are. On a 304 Jeep can I just choose whichever terminal I want to be #1? Thanks in advance for input/help. "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! Your distributor cap should have a mark of some type (some have a 1, some have a circle or dot) telling you which is #1. The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, i believe. If i remember correctly the #1 wire will be approx. 5 o'clock on the distributor. Put the cap on the distributor and check your shop manual for correct orientation. I like to use the hold-down as a reference. Don W Position 1 is determined when the rotor cap is pointing to it on the TDC compression stoke. Then it's 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2 going CW, with the cylinder id as follows: left 7 5 3 1 (front, drivers side) 8 6 4 2 right The Haynes manual shows position 1 adjacent to the vacuum advance.  SignatureJimG 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines D44 Rear, Dana 30 Front. SOA 4.56 Gears, LockRight F&R Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries > Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the > distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! >Position 1 is determined when the rotor cap is pointing to it on the TDC >compression stoke. Then it's 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2 going CW, with the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >The Haynes manual shows position 1 adjacent to the vacuum advance. But if your whole distributor cap/rotor got burned off and you have no reference then how do you know where the rotor cap is pointing to? See what I mean? I know how to put the engine at TDC for cylinder #1, but then I have to drop the distributor in place. I can't look at the rotor because it burned into nothingness. :) I'm gonna have to put the engine at TDC for cylinder #1 and then install the distributor and it seems like I could either get it right or be 180 degrees out of time when the gears mesh. "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! If you set it TDC on the compression stroke, you will not be 180 deg off. Take #1 plug out (and all the rest, to make it easy to turn with a big socket wrench), and put a cork in the #1 hole, when you get to the compression stroke, it will pop out. Then you need a new rotor button installed. With the cap off, drop the distributor in, and the rotor button electrode will pointing to position 1. JimG > >Position 1 is determined when the rotor cap is pointing to it on the TDC > >compression stoke. Then it's 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2 going CW, with the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! >If you set it TDC on the compression stroke, you will not be 180 deg off. >Take #1 plug out (and all the rest, to make it easy to turn with a big [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >JimG Yeah... I know exactly how to get the engine to TDC on cylinder #1. I don't have any question at all about how to get the engine to TDC for cylinder #1. Are you saying there is only exactly one way to install the distributor into the engine when the engine is set to TDC for clyinder #1? I don't think that's correct. I pretty sure I could install it in 2 different ways (each way 180 degrees out of phase with the other), but I'm not sure that it will matter. I must not be phrasing my question well. Imagine someone pulled your distributor out of your engine, removed all plug wires, and spun the shaft around a few times at random. You set the engine to TDC for cylinder #1. How do you go about putting the distributor back in and hooking up the "correct #1 terminal" to #1 cylinder? I think you could get the distributor to drop in two different ways, one with the rotor pointing in one direction, and the other way with the rotor pointing in the exact opposite (180 degrees off) direction. See what I mean? >> >Position 1 is determined when the rotor cap is pointing to it on the TDC >> >compression stoke. Then it's 1, 8, 4, 3, 6, 5, 7, 2 going CW, with the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> "I can hammer it back into shape later." >> :wq! "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! You can drop the distributor, in any position, and determine where position 1 is, it does not matter. Do you realize that there are two TDC points? One on the compression stroke and one on the exhaust stroke. JimG > >If you set it TDC on the compression stroke, you will not be 180 deg off. > >Take #1 plug out (and all the rest, to make it easy to turn with a big [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! >You can drop the distributor, in any position, and determine where position >1 is, it does not matter. Any position? I thought you could only drop it in at 2 different positions for any given engine rotation. > Do you realize that there are two TDC points? >One on the compression stroke and one on the exhaust stroke. Yes, I realize that. :-) >JimG > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >> "I can hammer it back into shape later." >> :wq! "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! > Any position? I thought you could only drop it in at 2 different > positions for any given engine rotation. Anywhere that the gears mesh up. I don't know how many different positions, but it's more than 2. Like Mike said, the stock wire length wants #1 in a particular position. Again... as long as #1 wire (with the rotor button pointing to it), goes to #1 cylinder when the motor is sitting at compression stroke TDC for #1 cylinder. JimG >Again... as long as #1 wire (with the rotor button pointing to it), goes to >#1 cylinder when the motor is sitting at compression stroke TDC for #1 >cylinder. > >JimG OK, that phrase is *exactly* what I was looking for. I suspected that I could just choose whatever terminal I wanted to be #1 terminal as long as I hooked the wires up right, but wasn't positive since that isn't always the case. (referencing my VW example) Thanks for the information! "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! http://www.billhughes.com/304_f_o.jpg God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/304_f_o.jpg > Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the > distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:30:58 -0700, L.W.(ßill) Hughes III <billhughes@cox.net> wrote: > http://www.billhughes.com/304_f_o.jpg > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O >mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/304_f_o.jpg Thanks, Bill. Now I won't have to dig out my manual to see which cylinder is which, but I still have the same question. Can I arbitrarily choose which terminal on the distributor I want to be #1 or not as long as I wire that terminal to cylinder #1 and then the next terminal on the distributor moving CCW to cylinder #2, etc, etc? Maybe if I phrase the question another way... If my Jeep was running just fine would it matter at all if I removed every single plug wire from the distributor and shifted their position one terminal clockwise or counterclockwise? See what I mean? >> Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the >> distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> "I can hammer it back into shape later." >> :wq! "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! It seems like you could drop it in any position, the star stays the same in relation to the cap, and providing the vacuum diaphragm didn't swing into anything, but it's never run quite right for me, like it's cross firing when I've just went one up and followed the timing order off the intake manifold. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Thanks, Bill. Now I won't have to dig out my manual to see which > cylinder is which, but I still have the same question. Can I [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! >if I removed every single plug wire > from the distributor and shifted their position one terminal clockwise > or counterclockwise... That would be bad... the cylinder needs to be TDC on the compression stroke for the fire. JimG You have to 'clock' your distributor like normal and on the V8 have number 1 just to the short edge of the advance or the right as you face the engine. The advance points to the right corner of the engine also or number 1 cylinder as you face it. This setup will allow a stock set of wires to fit on nicely. If you mess with the clocking, the wires get nasty. Other than that, the only Jeep engine was the Buick V6 odd fire that needed a special #1 location. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the > distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! I mean compression stroke on #1 for 'clocking' the distributor.... Mike > You have to 'clock' your distributor like normal and on the V8 have > number 1 just to the short edge of the advance or the right as you face [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > > :wq! >I mean compression stroke on #1 for 'clocking' the distributor.... > >Mike I'm not positive I follow your explanation, but is what you're saying that I could just choose a certain terminal on the distributor to be #1 and wire that one terminal over to cylinder #1 and be sure that while the rotor is pointing to that terminal that cylinder #1 is at TDC and then wire the rest of the terminals in order to the correct cylinders? I *think* that's all there is to it and that that is what you are saying, but I know it's not always the case, like the VW example I gave where they have it set up so that the "real" #3 terminal is positioned so that it is slightly retarded to help #3 cylinder run a little cooler. Thanks for the input/information! >> You have to 'clock' your distributor like normal and on the V8 have >> number 1 just to the short edge of the advance or the right as you face [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> > "I can hammer it back into shape later." >> > :wq! "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! I think you have it figured. The rotor can point anywhere 'you' want it to on this engine as long as you put #1 plug wire in the cap the right place on TDC compression. To make a stock set of plug wires fit nice, the rotor should be pointing to the front drivers side of the engine. Having the wires lay right eliminates the possibility of cross fire and misses and just looks cleaner. Mike > >I mean compression stroke on #1 for 'clocking' the distributor.... > > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! Some more info if still needed. http://www.westechperformance.com/pages/Tech_Library/Popular_Engine_Specs/firing.html >Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the >distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >"I can hammer it back into shape later." >:wq! >Some more info if still needed. > >http://www.westechperformance.com/pages/Tech_Library/Popular_Engine_Specs/firing.html Thanks! That confirms it. From that link: "You can put the number one plug wire anywhere on the distributor cap as long as the distributor is installed with the rotor pointing to that terminal with the number one piston at TDC. " That is what I needed to be sure of. Thanks for all of the input. >>Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the >>distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>"I can hammer it back into shape later." >>:wq! "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! Hi Jeepster, Not seen you around here lately! (been lurking?) Got my HEI in recently... so all of this topic was fresh in my mind. Good link! JimG > Some more info if still needed. http://www.westechperformance.com/pages/Tech_Library/Popular_Engine_Specs/firing.html > >Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the > >distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >"I can hammer it back into shape later." > >:wq! >Hi Jeepster, > >Not seen you around here lately! (been lurking?) > >Got my HEI in recently... so all of this topic was fresh in my mind. I got one of those DUI distributor/coil combos. That what you got? If so how's it working out for you? >Good link! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >"I can hammer it back into shape later." >> >:wq! "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! I picked up a unit from an 82' chevy truck with a 250 from a bone yard. Cleaned it up, put a few new parts on it... got about $100 in it all. Works great.... very smooth, much less complicated, tossed out the "brain box". JimG > >Hi Jeepster, > > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! I have been working long hours and lurk when I can, I have worked 400 hours OT this year so far and I worked about 1000 hours last year. Good to hear about the HEI I know it made a world of difference on my old tired 258, if I was Shaggie I would consider it since he is redoing his distributor anyways. I was here a week or so ago and posted a Q when I was redoing my leaf springs, I went with new springs from a local spring shop and wow what a difference it made. With the 1" body lift it sits real pretty now. I'm waiting on all new stainless hinges and a stainless hood kit and once that arrives I have a local body shop that will paint it for $1000 if I bring it in stripped down. >Hi Jeepster, > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >"I can hammer it back into shape later." >> >:wq! >I have been working long hours and lurk when I can, I have worked 400 >hours OT this year so far and I worked about 1000 hours last year. >Good to hear about the HEI I know it made a world of difference on my >old tired 258, if I was Shaggie I would consider it since he is >redoing his distributor anyways. I'm putting one of these in: http://4wd.com/shopwrangler/ProductDetail.asp?ProductSKU=40820 "I can hammer it back into shape later." :wq! Looks nice but you could do the same with and old HEI from a Chevy. >>I have been working long hours and lurk when I can, I have worked 400 >>hours OT this year so far and I worked about 1000 hours last year. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >"I can hammer it back into shape later." >:wq! Still got to find that little gear, that seems to be worth it's weight in gold, now. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Looks nice but you could do the same with and old HEI from a Chevy. Turns out any 360 gear works (on the 258 anyway)... that's what I used. Shaggie has the V8, I'm not sure what Chevy options exist for that. JimG > Still got to find that little gear, that seems to be worth it's > weight in gold, now. > God Bless America, ?ill O|||||||O > mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > > > Looks nice but you could do the same with and old HEI from a Chevy. And they want from what I've heard a hundred and twenty bucks for it. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Turns out any 360 gear works (on the 258 anyway)... that's what I used. > Shaggie has the V8, I'm not sure what Chevy options exist for that. > > JimG Brain fart on my part.... duh :) On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:26:57 -0700, L.W.(ßill) Hughes III <billhughes@cox.net> wrote: > And they want from what I've heard a hundred and twenty bucks for >it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> JimG That's OK... some of us are a little rattled... when the end is near :-( JimG > Brain fart on my part.... duh :) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >> > >> JimG Apparently you can grind off some of the gear from the 258's original distributor and it will work fine as well. "When you look at the Prestolite and the big cap HEI side by side, they look exactly the same on the bottom except for the distributor gear. The distributor gear used on the Chevy 250 is cut in the opposite direction from the AMC gear. A hammer and a punch are used to drive out the pin that holds the gear on both distributors. The AMC gear is a little taller than the GM gear and you cannot just install the gear on the distributor. Just grind the gear down a little bit so it will install on the HEI. The shaft of the distributor should turn easily and there should not be a lot of up and down movement on the shaft." http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/electrical/hei02/ JJ On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:26:57 -0700, L.W.(ßill) Hughes III <billhughes@cox.net> wrote: > And they want from what I've heard a hundred and twenty bucks for >it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> JimG Even with a new gear I did mine for about $140 Canadian. He could take the extra bucks and buy a kick a.s set of wires. On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:56:39 -0700, L.W.(ßill) Hughes III <billhughes@cox.net> wrote: > Still got to find that little gear, that seems to be worth it's >weight in gold, now. > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O >mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > >> Looks nice but you could do the same with and old HEI from a Chevy. Well I'm no expert but it seems to me that the #1 plug needs to fire at the top of the compresion stroke for that cylinder. There should be some sort of marking on the distributer to indicate the #1 position such as a line or a dot or somthing. Poe >Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the >distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >:wq! > If you rotate the oil pump slot inside the block you can make any plug you want #1 so a mark would be useless. IE: 1.) Point rotor to terminal fo your choice 2.) Turn slot in oil pump inside block to line up with end tab on distributor. 3.) Insert distributor 4.) Wire plugs according to firing order What really matters is that the timing chain is lined up correctly on the cam and crank gears. >Well I'm no expert but it seems to me that the #1 plug needs to fire at >the top of the compresion stroke for that cylinder. There should be some [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>:wq! >> > If you rotate the oil pump slot inside the block you can make any plug > you want #1 so a mark would be useless. Have you any idea how difficult that would be to do? The distributor is driven by a worm gear, and converting the spinning of the distributor/oil pump into the rotating of the cam shaft is difficult enough, but the cam shaft is connected by reduction gearing to the crank shaft. . > IE: > 1.) Point rotor to terminal fo your choice [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What really matters is that the timing chain is lined up correctly on > the cam and crank gears. The better idea would be to turn the crank with a socket wrench on a long handle ratchet so the timing mark on the crank aligns with the scale on the block, then check the position of the valves to be sure they are both closed at the top of the Compression Stroke as opposed to the top of the Exhaust Stroke, then put the distributor in with the rotor aimed at the #1 position. The #1 position can be determined by looking at the new Distributor Cap. In theory, I suppose you could put the distributor in anyplace, but it would need to be in the place that delivered spark at the right time, and that is the tricky part of one does not take care to set the crank to TDC first. PS It is redundant to say TDC on #1 Cylinder because TDC is by definition the #1 Cylinder. The distributor could go in any place, but for it to work right, it has to be on TDC at some point, and putting it on TDC in the first place is the only sure fire way to get it right on every engine every time. > >Well I'm no expert but it seems to me that the #1 plug needs to fire at > >the top of the compresion stroke for that cylinder. There should be some [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >>"I can hammer it back into shape later." > >>:wq! Suppose the firing order was actually a critical functioin, and not only did the firing order need to be in a specific sequence, but also at a specific time. Now, suppose you did not make sure the engine was at TDC (top dead center) when you pulled the wires off and took the distributor out. Assuming you did not observe TDC before you started, you can put the wires anywhere you want because the odds of actually puting them in the right place is very slim, and even if you managed to do that, the motor still would not run. > Hi all. Just wondering... Suppose your 304 V8 caught on fire and the > distributor burned up... So you removed it and ordered a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "I can hammer it back into shape later." > :wq! |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.