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Car Forum / Jeep / April 2004Bit Off More Than I Could Chew
After spending several weekends peeling the tub off of my 84 CJ7, I have come to the conclusion that I don't know what the hell I am doing. This newgroup has helped me out of so many jams that I'd like to offer what's left of my Jeep to someone in this group who could actually do something constructive with it. I figured I'd try this before throwing it out on eBay. This Jeep ran great before I started 'restoring' it. A week does not go by where someone in my family asks why I did that. It's been sitting for about 6 months. I bought it from a buddy a few years ago who owned it for 14 years and only used it on weekends. It no longer has a tub, dash, wiring harness, gas tank skid plate, rear cross member, pulse air tubes, ignition module, heater core, heater ducts Frame has some rot where it connected to the rear cross member on the driver's side, it also has damage at the body mounts, mostly due to my surgery but none of this seems insurmountable (only to me) T-176 is 2 years old 258 has around 80,000 miles Carter BBD with stepper motor Air tubes are gone, rest of the emissions crap is in a box All seats (tan) Full hard doors, hood, fenders, windshield frame (red), full soft doors, half doors (plastic), never mounted Crap tires on OEM wagon wheels (5) 15x7 + American racing wagon wheels (15x7 (5), one still in box) Brake work done in Sept 03 New alternator, water pump, never installed Factory service manual HEI Distributor still in box (bought 11/03) CJ is in storage unit in Largo, Florida Price $0.00 (only stipulation is you have to pick it up and take everything) Email me if you are interested (remove NOSPAM from my address) Joe White Sorry to hear you lost interest. I'm just starting my tub swap and hope it doesn't turn out the same... I'm sure someone will be happy to take it off your hands. > After spending several weekends peeling the tub off of my 84 CJ7, I have > come to the conclusion that I don't know what the hell I am doing. This [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Joe White If it's not a vehicle you need or depend on...then keep it and take your time man! Don't look at the whole thing as one big mass of tasks...just pick one thing and work on that. Do the rust patches first.....if I had a house w/garage I'd be doing the same. And I too get that overwhelming feeling when there's lots to do. Just don't listen to the people that are dumpin on ya cuz you may look disorganized! > After spending several weekends peeling the tub off of my 84 CJ7, I have > come to the conclusion that I don't know what the hell I am doing. This [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Joe White It's just when you take the body off and see that was the only thing holding whole rear end on: http://saturday.pointclark.net:8082/pictures/jeep/pics/Jeep_601.JPG God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > If it's not a vehicle you need or depend on...then keep it and take your > time man! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Just don't listen to the people that are dumpin on ya cuz you may look > disorganized! haha...no way!! lol It's funny though....it's like Wile E Coyote as he runs off the cliff....he's fine til he looks down! so as a daily that jeep probably woulda kept going....rust is kinda like a weld isn't it? lol > It's just when you take the body off and see that was the only > thing holding whole rear end on: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Just don't listen to the people that are dumpin on ya cuz you may look > > disorganized! Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-) Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ > It's just when you take the body off and see that was the only > thing holding whole rear end on: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Just don't listen to the people that are dumpin on ya cuz you may look > > disorganized! Real Jeep frames are open channel like the commercial trucks, therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration: http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-) > > Dave Milne, Scotland > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ For those new to the group, it probably should be pointed out periodically that Bill doesn't much care for any jeep model newer than the Conestoga... the original one with 72 inch wooden wheels and genuine steel belt wrapped carefully around the outer wooden rim. Engine options were either 4 or 6 horsepower. Roughly 4/20/04 15:49, L.W.(ßill) Hughes III's monkeys randomly typed: > Real Jeep frames are open channel like the commercial trucks, > therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> Dave Milne, Scotland >> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ  SignatureEvolution is merely survival of the minimally adequate You may see the spare wagon wheel we used on the Butterfield stage my parent used to get to our ranch in Del Mar, California, on the fence behind me and my brother: http://www.billhughes.com/billJerry1948.jpg God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com > For those new to the group, it probably should be pointed out > periodically that Bill doesn't much care for any jeep model > newer than the Conestoga... the original one with 72 inch wooden > wheels and genuine steel belt wrapped carefully around the > outer wooden rim. Engine options were either 4 or 6 horsepower. Joe, it may seem helpless but don't let that, or the opinions of others, make you give up.m I'm going through the same sort of exercise right now, http://users.eastlink.ca/~howarde/Tonka.html Obviously, this is going to take a lot longer than I would like and it's not going to be as easy as I'd like. I don't get a lot of encouragement from some people either, it could probably be better described as "Discouragement", Some days when I think about everything I've got ahead of me I just wanna crawl in a hole & make the world go away :(. The thing is, I've been through enough in life to know that if I take it one day at a time, in small steps, I WILL get it finished :). Of course I do have the advantage of having a long attachement with this particular jeep, I know every part of it inside out, I know what it will look like when it's done & most importantly I know how good I'll feel when I'm driving it :). I also know that if I don't fix it I'll feel like crap the rest of my life. ;>. Now, the question is- are you more interested in the "Destination" or the "Journey"? If your really more interested in having something, anything! to drive right now then you'll be happier just buying yourself another jeep, but if there 's something about this one that tweaked your imagination then think about sticking with it. Don't let the occaisional bought of discouragemnet or the opinions of others (Whatinhelldothoselifelessmoronsknowanyway?) be the reason to quit. Do it, Do it Right, & I guarantee that when you're done the sense of accomplishment will put a smile on your face everytime you even *Think* about runnin her down the road :). Either way, Good Luck -Howard. >After spending several weekends peeling the tub off of my 84 CJ7, I have >come to the conclusion that I don't know what the hell I am doing. This [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >Joe White AND....if you do the restoration....take pics! It's always fun to go back and say, "that's were I lost it..." and "that's where I broke my foot kicking the jack and having the axle fall...." Then you can get some Jeep credz with the real grease monkeys when you post some of those pics! > After spending several weekends peeling the tub off of my 84 CJ7, I have > come to the conclusion that I don't know what the hell I am doing. This [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Joe White Joe: I agree with some of the other posters-- don't give up yet. You need to put blinders on just like they do with horses so you can only see ahead and you aren't distracted by other things. If money isn't an issue, why don't you find a local welder to clean up the frame rot and give you a good base to start with. Then take each step forward based on a rough timeframe: by the end of summer I'll have the engine remounted and running, by the end of the fall I'll have the tub back together, etc. You only go around once, so why give up on a dream to quickly? J Painter It will be 2 years next month, since the start of my project. There is still a long way to go. http://members.cox.net/rockncj/ Good luck, whatever the choice. --James > After spending several weekends peeling the tub off of my 84 CJ7, I have > come to the conclusion that I don't know what the hell I am doing. This [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Joe White About 2 years here too. I'm nearly done -- but I'm fighting with the thing today, as a matter of fact. And, it seems to be winning. > It will be 2 years next month, since the start of my project. There is still > a long way to go. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > > Joe White OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden change in the weather. The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's not an issue. Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it off. So far, so good. I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator, it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to. Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but -- stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see the relationship. Such fun I have sometimes... Lee Ayrton did pass the time by typing: > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden > change in the weather. It's a Jeep thing. :) > The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer > ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a > field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under > the balancer. That would do it. > Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to > get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it > off. So far, so good. Been there, cept I had to pull the radiator. > I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively > shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley > bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator, > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? The only one I'm aware of is the OEM part from the dealer. It's based on the oil slinger not being there. Read about it on http://www.bc4x4.com/faqs/yj.cfm?cat=5&faqid=147#faqtop > I'm > reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning > into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to. There is a proper tool. Most places like Autozone rent it and believe me it makes installing that sucker a breeze. http://members.cox.net/wilsond/hb/installer-set-s.jpg > Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine wasn't, it was off by about 1/8. I remember this because the washer was packed with crud to about that depth. I also noticed the notch in the HB lines up on the timing mark notches (for me at least) > Mine > seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but -- > stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see > the relationship. > > Such fun I have sometimes... I did the same thing, forgot to measure. Alas my experience with the 93 4.0 isn't going to help much. I did find the last 1/8" took a lot of pressure on the installer tool. FWIW: http://members.cox.net/wilsond/hb/ Hope that helps. SignatureDougW > Lee Ayrton did pass the time by typing: > > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits > > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? Sometimes the key on the crank is the problem. It is usually a woodruff key which is basically a half round shape on the part that goes into the keyway in the crank snout. The key can catch on a burr in the balancer keyway and the back of the key will raise up, essentially forming a lock. Personally, if it isn't too much hassle to pop it back off, I would do that. Then check the key and the slot in the new balancer for burrs and sharp edges. A small, fine file, or one of your wife's emory boards for doing her nails will work just fine. Make sure the key is all the way down in the slot and also make sure that the tup surface of the key is parallel with the crank snout. I usually put a little anti-sieze in the balancer hole to kind of lubricate things a little. Not much of it makes it in because it is a press fit, but it does help. Chris Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal. BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about 3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it. Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 - go figure. > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden > change in the weather. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Such fun I have sometimes... SignatureWill Honea <whonea@codenet.net> If you are going to change the seal, you have to loosen the timing cover to do it right. The seal needs to be installed in the cover, then the balancer slipped on, then the cover slides around to center the seal on the balancer, then you tighten the cover down, pull off and put the balancer back in in for good. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know > that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > -- > Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> I didn't that much of a problem without pulling the cover - except for my cheap-assed seal puller. Insertion was simple and the cover was already centered by the previous seal. What you describe seems to be the way to position the cover if that was pulled but the new seal should still be positioned correctly (if the old one was). I do wish I had gone to the trouble of pulling the cover, though, because I have just enough seepage at the top of the cover to keep things pretty nasty under the radiator hoses and behind the compressor. > If you are going to change the seal, you have to loosen the timing cover > to do it right. [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > -- > > Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net> SignatureWill Honea <whonea@codenet.net> Thanks for the help guys, but it turned out that it really _was_ me just being stupid. I was using the wrong torque value, not the 80 ft/lbs that the balancer needs. It lines up fine now, and spins without a wobble. The end of the crank does not sit flush with the face of the balancer, it is something like 3/32" back. Thanks again. > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden > change in the weather. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Such fun I have sometimes... Thanks for the follow up. :-) God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ Lee Ayrton did pass the time by typing: > Thanks for the help guys, but it turned out that it really _was_ me just > being stupid. I was using the wrong torque value, not the 80 ft/lbs that > the balancer needs. It lines up fine now, and spins without a wobble. > > The end of the crank does not sit flush with the face of the balancer, it > is something like 3/32" back. Glad to hear that. SignatureDougW |
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