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Car Forum / Jeep / April 2004RFI - CO2 systems
Thinking of putting together a CO2 system for airing up my tires. I'm finding some conflicting info though - for example, some people say buy a regulator that they sell for beer taps, other say you need a "high flow" regulator. So...if anybody's put together a home-built system, I'd be interested in knowing what pieces you used (and why), where you got them, and how much did they cost. If you can email me a pic, that'd be great too. If there's a reason to spend 2-3x as much for one of the "pre-packaged" CO2 systems, I'd like to know what it is. Thanks in advance, -Ed I built one a couple of years ago: http://www.monograms-inc.com/jeep/co2tire.htm I bought everything except the air hose, chuck and mount from my local welding shop. Since I have built mine they have come out with simple regulators that don't have all the dials and gauges. If you can find one of them for cheap I'd buy that over the O2 regulator that I ended up using. You don't want to use a CO2 regulator that measures its output in CFH (cubic feet / hour). I set my regulator as high as it will go, around 100 - 120 PSI. It makes quite a difference in how fast the tire fills. I'm not a real fan of compressed gas solutions for airing up tires because you are limited to what you can carry, and it costs money to refill the tank. I could have bought a belt driven compressor for what I've paid to refill my CO2 tank. But if immediate space, time or money dictates that you use one CO2 is by far and away the best gas to use. Good luck Dean >Thinking of putting together a CO2 system for airing up my tires. I'm >finding some conflicting info though - for example, some people say [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Thanks in advance, >-Ed i agree with using a compressor instead of canned! Who's to say you got enough to re-air before you can get out....with your own source you can keep going safely enough.... > I built one a couple of years ago: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >Thanks in advance, > >-Ed >i agree with using a compressor instead of canned! >Who's to say you got enough to re-air before you can get out....with your >own source you can keep going safely enough.... Murphy loves going on trail rides. <lol> He's been on a couple with me, but I wish he just would stay home. <g> Murph, as I call him, is especially fond of my CO2 system because the pressure stays the same as long as there is liquid in the tank. I'll be filling tires and just when I'm 3/4 of the way done the liquid will run out and I'll have 3 tires aired up and one partially finished. Of course I could check the tank BEFORE I left, but then I'd have to go to the filling place and pay them the 13 dollars they want. And since I never think about doing that during the week when they are open, I go out one more time with Murph just waiting for that tank to run dry. <g> Dean Why not use a SCUBA setup? > >i agree with using a compressor instead of canned! > >Who's to say you got enough to re-air before you can get out....with your [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dean I think there's some issues with transporting pressurized cylinders. Scuba stuff is high pressure isn't it? > Why not use a SCUBA setup? > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > Dean Here in Ontario Canada, they have to be inside the frame rails or inside the vehicle body. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > I think there's some issues with transporting pressurized cylinders. Scuba > stuff is high pressure isn't it? [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > > > > Dean About twice the CO2, at 3300, certified at 5000. The DOT numbers have to be different to keep it from being mistakenly used to dive. Maybe you can get it certified. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > I think there's some issues with transporting pressurized cylinders. Scuba > stuff is high pressure isn't it? The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge a SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI leagally anyway. Also a good tank will cost considerably more than a CO2 bottle. Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle. I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. He does have a special regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes. Nathan as a welder can vouch for that. The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh the bottle when its empty and put a tag or some permanent mark on it somewhere indicating how much the whole shooting match weighs. Fill the bottle. Each time after you return from wheeling just reweigh the bottle. Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This method works. It's how fire departments and the military (well the Navy anyway) know whether a CO2 firefighting bottle is not full. Oh when buying the CO2 bottle 20lb refers to the weight of the CO2 that can be held in the tank not the weight of the bottle. Hmmm.... Look for fire fighting equiment on the net that might be a good source for parts. Hope this helps. Rich Harris OK....I'm looking at doing some projects for the jeep that may require welding. I don't have a welder and haven't really stood behind the stick more than a few times ( and was just trying it out then!). So my question is, what's a good all purpose type of welder that is somewhat cheap! I know you probably want to know what I'd be welding, but I'll withhold that unless it's reallyu needed! I'm thinking of those arc welders that most people had in the back of their garages. I figure picking one up at a garage sale shouldn't be too painful! > The only problem is in charging the SCUBA tanks. No dive shop will charge a > SCUBA tank without the holder having a dive certification like PADI leagally [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Hope this helps. > Rich Harris <snip> >Also CO2 can be compressed into a liquid form at a much lower pressure than >air, allowing for a better safety margin with a bottle. The safety margin for CO2 vs a scuba tank isn't so much in the strength margin of the bottle but in how the energy is released if there is an accident. A 3,000 psi scuba tank is going to release its energy all at once, think shrapnel, think bomb. :-( If a CO2 bottle is punctured in an accident the liquid CO2 will change immediately to a solid (dry ice) and gradually evaporate. That said I wouldn't want to be anywhere near either bottle in an accident. >I have a friend who has a home-made rig. It cost him about $150 USD to put >it together using a 20lb (if I remember) aluminum CO2 bottle. He swears by >it and it fills alot of tires as well as runs air tools no problem. I've >seen it in action and it seems like it runs forever. CO2 will run air tools just fine. In fact I can't tell a bit of difference between the CO2 and my shop compressor, except cost. A full 5 lb CO2 bottle will fill about 20 33x12.5 tires. >He does have a special >regulator that won't freeze up since CO2 will do that when it depressurizes. All compressed gas cools as it expands, so all regulators that I know of are designed with that in mind. When I fill my tires the regulator and first 6 inches of the hose will get covered in frost. I live in a place that considers 20% humidity to be muggy so I don't know how it would behave in a place with real humidity. <g> >The big drawback is what Dean was saying about running out of CO2 on the >trail. I have a simple fix for that. Buy an inexpensive fishing scale. Weigh [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Once you get low refill the bottle before going back out on the trail. This >method works. You are absolutely correct. The problem is that the places that fill CO2 don't charge by the pound, but by the fill. So it costs the same to fill an empty bottle as one that is only partially empty. I can be a cheap SOB and I hate not getting everything I paid for. <g> One other problem that isn't talked about much is where do you get the bottle refilled? If it is close to home it is no big deal, but if you live in a small town they might have to send it out to be filled. I found this out the hard way when after a couple of day of wheeling in Moab my bottle went dry. No, biggie I thought. There is a welding supply right on the main street of town. Well, they couldn't fill it for me because they send everything to a bigger town to be filled, and it would take a couple of days. Like I said before CO2 is the best gas for this application. You can build one yourself for around $150 - $180 in an afternoon. They are simple and basically fool proof. They can easily be moved from vehicle to vehicle. BUT if you plan to keep your Jeep for a long time the belt driven compressor will pay for itself over the long haul. Regards, Dean Scuba tanks are designed with a burst disk that will go long before a tank would explode. As long as that burst disk is funcioning (it wouldn't hold air if it wasn't) there is virtually no chance of the tank exploding. I know of one person that removed the burst disk in a tank to over fill it, he paid for it with his life, tank exploded and blew him in half (he was standing right in front of the compressor). Also, while the tank will hold 3000PSI, it certainly doesn't have to be filled to capacity. How many tires could you fill with an 80 cubic foot tank? > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > Regards, > Dean > Why not use a SCUBA setup? This guy does: http://www.4wd.com/mudmag/jotm.asp He says: "Instead of buying 'onboard air' (since I am a SCUBA diver too) I used my regulator and tanks and found some air fittings at Home Depot to connect a curly hose to the tank and use it to air up. I found I can do it almost 5 times with one 72 or 80 tank (I have both). The added cost for it was about 25 bucks" He can only air up his 31x10.50s 5 times on a tank wheres a 10lb CO2 tank would do it at least 25 times. Then again, the air refills cost less. For someone who's already got the gear and a dive card, looks like a decent low buck alternative. A pair of aluminum 80s pretty much live in the back of my vehicle anyway. I might try it on my next remote shore dive - just gotta remember to surface early and save few hundred extra PSI for the tires. Steve |
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