Car Forum / Jeep / May 2004
heavy-duty tie rod
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Snowboardripper - 28 May 2004 16:04 GMT I am buying a skyjacker heavy-duty tie rod, but would like to know after you install it do you need a wheel alignment? Is there away to mark it so you do not need to get one done or is there a trick to it?
Mike Romain - 28 May 2004 16:43 GMT Your tie rod controls the toe in alignment.
You can set this with a tape measure. I use the seam in the tire as a measuring point and go seam to seam in the front and then seam to seam across the back of the front tires.
I believe you should have 1/8" toe in. The measurement across the front of the tires should be 1/8" shorter than the measurement across the back.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> I am buying a skyjacker heavy-duty tie rod, but would like to know > after you install it do you need a wheel alignment? Is there away to > mark it so you do not need to get one done or is there a trick to it? CRWLR - 28 May 2004 19:02 GMT Mike, max toe-in is 3/64, which is just under 1/16.
Much of the reason we use the seam is because the shoulder of the tire can have differences that are greater than the adjustment spec. Because the spec is so tight, the holder of the tape must take extreme care to hold it on the same place each measurement.
> Your tie rod controls the toe in alignment. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > after you install it do you need a wheel alignment? Is there away to > > mark it so you do not need to get one done or is there a trick to it? L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 28 May 2004 19:59 GMT Hi Jeff, The eight inch is more like a personal preference, and the one I feel better with, with our heavier tires. Remember your measurements are made up too, because all alignment measurements are check in degrees, so those degrees the further out the wheel the greater that distance: http://www.billhughes.com/alignment.jpg The CJ Factory Service Manual suggests 3/64 to 3/32 for their smaller factory sized tires: http://www.billhughes.com/CJalignment.jpg God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com
> Mike, max toe-in is 3/64, which is just under 1/16. > > Much of the reason we use the seam is because the shoulder of the tire can > have differences that are greater than the adjustment spec. Because the spec > is so tight, the holder of the tape must take extreme care to hold it on the > same place each measurement. CRWLR - 28 May 2004 21:18 GMT > Hi Jeff, > The eight inch is more like a personal preference, and the one I > feel better with, with our heavier tires. Remember your measurements are > made up too, because all alignment measurements are check in degrees, so > those degrees the further out the wheel the greater that distance: Well, that makes sense, and is something I hadn't taken into consideration. The larger tires can result in a larger inch-measurment deviation, and still give the same spec in terms of degrees.
Mike Romain - 28 May 2004 20:13 GMT If that is the toe in from the book, then that is measured from the axle center as the zero to the front correct?
If so, when doing the measuring using the front and rear of the tire, it would be 1/8" less across the front of the tire.
That is how I thought it was, I could be mistaken.
Mike
> Mike, max toe-in is 3/64, which is just under 1/16. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > after you install it do you need a wheel alignment? Is there away to > > > mark it so you do not need to get one done or is there a trick to it? L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 28 May 2004 21:31 GMT Toe in is measured from the pivot point, the axle, just like the actual degrees in chamber, castor, and on the alignment machine the toe-in would be .25 degrees for perfect: http://www.billhughes.com/alignment.jpg and out to .45 to be still within specs. If you triangulate that on a 33" tire it's over an eight of an inch: http://www.billhughes.com/33tiretoe_in.jpg God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com
> If that is the toe in from the book, then that is measured from the axle > center as the zero to the front correct? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mike Richard Harris - 29 May 2004 00:52 GMT Nice Bill! I've been thinking of checking/adjusting my toe-in since adding 33's and a lift. Just noticed yesterday that my tie rod is looser than it should be, so I'll replace the ends and adjust accordingly. I too think having a little more toe-in than a little less is better for big tires. I'm thinking they will track better. Thanks and I'll post the results. Rich
> Toe in is measured from the pivot point, the axle, just like the > actual degrees in chamber, castor, and on the alignment machine the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > > > Mike L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 29 May 2004 01:17 GMT Hi Rich, I find the easiest way is to clamp two yard stick like sticks together so you my flip it back and forth zeroing in on the roundest bulge of the tires front and rear, and rolling the car back and forth too to make sure the tie-rod ends are settled in. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
> Nice Bill! > I've been thinking of checking/adjusting my toe-in since adding 33's and a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > will track better. Thanks and I'll post the results. > Rich Fred W. - 29 May 2004 01:19 GMT > If that is the toe in from the book, then that is measured from the axle > center as the zero to the front correct? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That is how I thought it was, I could be mistaken. Actually, I think the best bet is to make your measurements at the rims. That way, unless your rims are bent you'll be setting the proper toe in for the wheels and you have a nice hard, flat surface to measure from which is always the same (7.5 inches from wheel centerpoint for 15" wheels). I would be suspect that either the tire tread pattern or sidewalls could vary too much for the degree of accuracy you are trying to measure.
Here's a slick way that you can measure toe-in: Take a spool of cheap fishing line and tie a nut to the end. Wedge the nut into the tread on the rear of one of the back tires about 1/2 way up from the ground, then string the line around all four wheels being careful to avoid any bodywork between the front and rear wheels on each side so that the line goes across each wheeel at its midpoint and tape or tie it off somnewhere so it is snug.
Make sure that the steering wheel is as straight as possible. It can be restrained in the centered position if you want.
Measure the distance that the line is held away from the rim due to the sidewall bulging (depends on what you have for tires) and then cut 8 identical blocks sized about 1/4 to 1/2 inch wider than that distance. Place double sided tape (thin carpet tape) on the backs of each of the blocks and stick them temporarily on your rims under the fishing line. On stock Wranglers the front and rear track is identical. On other vehicles where the track is wider in the rear you can compensate by making the 4 rear blocks thicker than the front ones by half the difference in the track spec.
Since the fronts edge of the wheels are supposed to be closer together, if you gently pluck the line away from the front block until it still just barely touches the rear block you can measure how much that wheel is toed in. Do the same on the other side. Both sides should be the same amount and the total of the two is the total toe-in. Adjust the tie rod ends first for the total toe, then adjust both sides the same amount (in opposite directions) to get the same toe on each side, which will center the wheel when driving straight ahead.
After adjustment, drive a little bit on a flat road and analyze the wheel centering. If it is not straight, make additional small adjustments (on both sides, opposite directions) until the steering wheel is perfectly centered. When satisfied, run the line around again, measure and record the values for future reference.
The rear wheel angles can be checked the same way, though there is not much you can do about them short of centering the axle.
I've been able to do a better job setting toe-in this way (after replacing tie-rods) than the local alignment shop generally does.
-Fred W
Gary Tateosian - 29 May 2004 03:32 GMT >I am buying a skyjacker heavy-duty tie rod, but would like to know >after you install it do you need a wheel alignment? Is there away to >mark it so you do not need to get one done or is there a trick to it? ...I noticed the other replies on setting toe....but if you have good alignment, and are replacing the entire tie rod assembly assuming it is not bent...andf in reasonable condition...just make it the exact same length as the one you take off....and surprisingly enough...it will be the same ;-)
...Gareth
johnny - 29 May 2004 04:08 GMT obviously, you should carefully measeure the lenghts of the old rod pieces and adjust the new one to the same lenghts.then no alignment is needed. john
> I am buying a skyjacker heavy-duty tie rod, but would like to know > after you install it do you need a wheel alignment? Is there away to > mark it so you do not need to get one done or is there a trick to it? L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 29 May 2004 05:29 GMT That sounds good, but is he replacing every tie-rod end too? If not than he's a better man than I to be able to screw them together on the ground and just plug it in. I think I'd rather just install it, set the toe-in, and adjust the steering wheel to center again. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
> obviously, you should carefully measeure the lenghts of the old rod pieces > and adjust the new one to the same lenghts.then no alignment is needed. > john Mike Romain - 29 May 2004 15:00 GMT Agreed, you can't measure the center of a moving ball socket with any accuracy at all and the new parts won't be the same size or thread depth.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
"L.W.(ßill) Hughes III" wrote:
> That sounds good, but is he replacing every tie-rod end too? If not > than he's a better man than I to be able to screw them together on the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > and adjust the new one to the same lenghts.then no alignment is needed. > > john Carlo - 31 May 2004 02:45 GMT Back in 1964 when I went through Bear Mfg factory training in Rock Island, Ill, it was more better to drive over the Bear "Scuff Gauge" . We used to set the toe in @ 3 feet. This meant that the tire was dragged 3 feet sideways for every mile (which was equal to 1/8" toe in - but was a dynamic reading). The biggest benefit of using the scuff gauge was to drive over it for the initial reading, then have several "hefty" people stand on the front bumper & drive over it again (to check for toe change while braking) If the 2 readings were different then we would heat up the pitman arm & bend it up or down until they were the same.
 Signature Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh carlo.jr at comcast DOTnet '98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II O|||||||O '92 Explorer '65 Mustang
> Agreed, you can't measure the center of a moving ball socket with any > accuracy at all and the new parts won't be the same size or thread [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > > and adjust the new one to the same lenghts.then no alignment is needed. > > > john
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