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Car Forum / Jeep / December 2004

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The new GC with Hemi

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Brian Foster - 01 Dec 2004 01:02 GMT
I saw the new GC with the 5.7? L Hemi when my 02 GC was in for service
recently (recall on the gas tank).

Has anyone tried these out yet? The one in the showroom was decked out and
it had about a $40k sticker on it.
Mike Hall - 01 Dec 2004 02:01 GMT
A cool $57000 here in Canada..

>I saw the new GC with the 5.7? L Hemi when my 02 GC was in for service
>recently (recall on the gas tank).
>
> Has anyone tried these out yet? The one in the showroom was decked out and
> it had about a $40k sticker on it.
DougW - 01 Dec 2004 02:46 GMT
Mike Hall did pass the time by typing:
> A cool $57000 here in Canada..

They ride nice and sure have plenty of power
but I'm not so sure about the inside.  The rear
seats fold, but they seat bottoms don't lift, they
just stay there like a bench seat.

Not so sure it's worth the price tag.

Might change my mind in a year, but for now I'm keeping
the 93.

> "Brian Foster" wrote...
>> I saw the new GC with the 5.7? L Hemi when my 02 GC was in for service
>> recently (recall on the gas tank).
>>
>> Has anyone tried these out yet? The one in the showroom was decked out and
>> it had about a $40k sticker on it.
Mike Hall - 01 Dec 2004 02:59 GMT
I didn't like the interior at all.. some of the fittings looked and felt
cheap.. liked the Hemi and QuadraDrive II.. preferred the old style sliding
roof rails.. prefer the 93-98 model anyway.. my '94 GC stays in the driveway
for now..

> Mike Hall did pass the time by typing:
>> A cool $57000 here in Canada..
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>>> and
>>> it had about a $40k sticker on it.
Tomes - 01 Dec 2004 04:36 GMT
I sat in one while I was looking at the Unlimiteds and kept banging my head
getting in and out......argh.
Tomes

> I didn't like the interior at all.. some of the fittings looked and felt
> cheap.. liked the Hemi and QuadraDrive II.. preferred the old style sliding
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >>> and
> >>> it had about a $40k sticker on it.
Matt Macchiarolo - 06 Dec 2004 01:45 GMT
What is it with D-C's design team, are they all under 5'5"? I had the same
problem with another D-C product we were shopping for a few months ago (a
minivan, admittedly) but that damn side airbag was hitting me in the head
just sitting there, never mind trying to get in and out...

> I sat in one while I was looking at the Unlimiteds and kept banging my head
> getting in and out......argh.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> > >>> and
> > >>> it had about a $40k sticker on it.
Tigger - 17 Dec 2004 01:13 GMT
I took delivery of a 2005 GC Limited w/ HEMI(R) MDS. I am not pleased
and not sure i want to fight it out with the dealer and chrysler or
not.

Upon leaving the dealer: engine light came on and stayed on. Hesitation
during normal exceleration.
Dealer kept truck for 1.5 days and had the hole top of the motor apart
and the chrsyler engineers on the phone. They chalked it up to a chafed
wire connected to the MDS system. well i got my new jeep back and im
very very upset.

yes it has monster power but it has these hesitations throughout
exceleration that drive me nuts. They are not obvious jerk u back and
forth hesitations. They are an unevenness in applyed power through
exceleration. I HATE it. makes me feel like its not put together
correctly. My wif has an escalade with a 345hp engine that is smooth as
silk through power application. My HEMI is more like a 2 stroke
kawasaki as it has high spots and low spots in power application from
1700 all the way up through 4000rps. I'm sorry guys im sure my
terminoligy is not the best. I'm bummed. I love the truck. just started
searching the groups to see if anyone else has the same problem.
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 17 Dec 2004 01:26 GMT
    Pretend it's turbocharged.
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> I took delivery of a 2005 GC Limited w/ HEMI(R) MDS. I am not pleased
> and not sure i want to fight it out with the dealer and chrysler or
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> terminoligy is not the best. I'm bummed. I love the truck. just started
> searching the groups to see if anyone else has the same problem.
Tigger - 17 Dec 2004 01:30 GMT
Thats Helpfull
James Nipper - 17 Dec 2004 02:34 GMT
Why do you call it a truck ??
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 17 Dec 2004 05:30 GMT
    Because all Utility Vehicles are trucks. And that's the way they
are listed under their recalls: http://alldata.com/TSB/ Maybe look to
see what your state call it on your pink.
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Why do you call it a truck ??
Patrick - 17 Dec 2004 04:19 GMT
Bring it back, cancel with the bank.
By the law im sure you have 30 days

>I took delivery of a 2005 GC Limited w/ HEMI(R) MDS. I am not pleased
> and not sure i want to fight it out with the dealer and chrysler or
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> terminoligy is not the best. I'm bummed. I love the truck. just started
> searching the groups to see if anyone else has the same problem.
Jerry Bransford - 17 Dec 2004 05:24 GMT
> By the law im sure you have 30 days

Nope, at least not here in California...

Signature

Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 17 Dec 2004 05:32 GMT
    <ROTFLMAO>
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Bring it back, cancel with the bank.
> By the law im sure you have 30 days
Patrick - 17 Dec 2004 06:01 GMT
Damm, Thats very too bad, you have good insurance ????
LoL,

Well i would harass the dealer until they find the problem, a friend of mine
have the Hemi in his Dodge Ram and their is for sure no hesitation in
acceleration, The only hesitation is Do i BURN the tire at every corner....
Lol

there is way too much power in these truck Or GC for a every day use....

My 2 cents

"L.W. ("?ill") Hughes III" <billhughes@cox.net> a ?crit dans le message de
news: 41C26F51.DA8DE15A@cox.net...
>     <ROTFLMAO>
>        God Bless America, ?ill O|||||||O
> mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
>
>> Bring it back, cancel with the bank.
>> By the law im sure you have 30 days
DragonRider - 17 Dec 2004 15:02 GMT
>Bring it back, cancel with the bank.
>By the law im sure you have 30 days

Nope. by law if a person comes to your home and sells you something
(vaccum cleaner for instance) then you have a 3 day right of recision.
If you go to a store and buy something, including a car, as soon as
you walk out the purchase is complete.  Those with 30 day return
offers are doing so of their own free will and are under no legal
obligations to do so.

As the old saying goes, if you buy the car, drive it off the lot and
it breaks in half, you own both halves..
jeff - 17 Dec 2004 15:17 GMT
> >Bring it back, cancel with the bank.
> >By the law im sure you have 30 days
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> As the old saying goes, if you buy the car, drive it off the lot and
> it breaks in half, you own both halves..

And the Lemon Law says DC will replace it. Keep Complaining and keep records
and receipts.
Lon - 18 Dec 2004 04:04 GMT
Patrick proclaimed:

> Bring it back, cancel with the bank.

  At that point the bank explains the terms "with recourse" and
  "without recourse" to you.

> By the law im sure you have 30 days

  I'm even more sure you don't.
Mike Romain - 17 Dec 2004 13:50 GMT
Is that the same type of abortion GM gave up on years ago?

The stupid 8, 6, 4 cylinder engine?

Good luck man.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

> I took delivery of a 2005 GC Limited w/ HEMI(R) MDS. I am not pleased
> and not sure i want to fight it out with the dealer and chrysler or
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> terminoligy is not the best. I'm bummed. I love the truck. just started
> searching the groups to see if anyone else has the same problem.
Mike Hall - 17 Dec 2004 14:30 GMT
> Is that the same type of abortion GM gave up on years ago?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

That is prolly why the GC is doing it.. as it seamlessly cuts out and
restarts the other half of the engine.. I6's rule..
John Sevey - 17 Dec 2004 17:18 GMT
> Is that the same type of abortion GM gave up on years ago?
> The stupid 8, 6, 4 cylinder engine?

FYI, here's a good description of the MDS system here:

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html

Please note that I'm not passing judgement on it -- at least not yet...

-John
Mike Romain - 17 Dec 2004 17:32 GMT
Too freakin' funny!

It 'should' be better than the GM abortion because 'electronics are
faster' and the mathematicians are better.   LOL!!!

So you get all this expensive 'extra' electronics, parts and hesitations
and all the rest of the crap in an 'experimental' engine to gain , wait,
this is good... a whopping 3 mpg!!!!!!!

Mike

> > Is that the same type of abortion GM gave up on years ago?
> > The stupid 8, 6, 4 cylinder engine?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> -John
John Sevey - 17 Dec 2004 19:07 GMT
> Too freakin' funny!
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> and all the rest of the crap in an 'experimental' engine to gain , wait,
> this is good... a whopping 3 mpg!!!!!!!

Here's another article, showing that good 'ol GM is also using the same
system.  This article also mentions a similar "computing power" quote:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/041020.htm

Like I said, I'll wait 'till some of these things get more actual consumer
miles on them before I pass judgement on them, but I have my own concerns
about their longevity...

-John
Mike Romain - 17 Dec 2004 19:08 GMT
> > Too freakin' funny!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> -John

You are right time will tell, but they don't sound like they are
starting out well.

Mike
mic canic - 19 Dec 2004 01:14 GMT
the m.d.s has been out as long as the 300c has

> > > Too freakin' funny!
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Mike
John Sevey - 20 Dec 2004 16:25 GMT
> the m.d.s has been out as long as the 300c has

Just curious:

Have you heard of any failures with the lifters yet?  Given their "role" in
the whole cylinder deactivation scheme, I'm concerned with their longevity.
I can't imagine that the lifters are cheap to buy, either.

I tend to keep vehicles for quite a long time, so I'm mostly concerned with
hefty repair bills when vehicles get over the 100,000 mile mark.

-John
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 20 Dec 2004 18:26 GMT
    I don't know why, Chrysler's got over fifty years of using that
exact same design: http://www.billhughes.com/hemi_cutaway.jpg 
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com

> Just curious:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> -John
Mike Romain - 20 Dec 2004 18:39 GMT
Not the same engine Bill.  The one they stick in the Jeep tries to run
on 4 cylinders by shutting down the valve lifters with oil cut off
solenoids.  They starve them for oil so they collapse and the engine
staggers along on 4 cylinders.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"L.W.(ßill) Hughes III" wrote:

>      I don't know why, Chrysler's got over fifty years of using that
> exact same design: http://www.billhughes.com/hemi_cutaway.jpg
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >
> > -John
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 20 Dec 2004 19:19 GMT
Hi Mike,
    I don't see how they could do it that way. They would sound like a
collapsed lifters, throwing push rods. The old Cadillac simply shut the
fuel off the "extra" cylinders. (I think?) A truck Jake lefts the
exhaust valves, causing one heck of a drag, have to push the piston up
and snap them back down, something that would blow the heck out of fuel
efficiency. Any key words or sites you may think of to research this?  
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Not the same engine Bill.  The one they stick in the Jeep tries to run
> on 4 cylinders by shutting down the valve lifters with oil cut off
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
John Sevey - 20 Dec 2004 19:54 GMT
L.W.(?ill) Hughes III <billhughes@cox.net> wrote:
>      I don't see how they could do it that way. They would sound like a
> collapsed lifters, throwing push rods. The old Cadillac simply shut the
> fuel off the "extra" cylinders. (I think?) A truck Jake lefts the
> exhaust valves, causing one heck of a drag, have to push the piston up
> and snap them back down, something that would blow the heck out of fuel
> efficiency. Any key words or sites you may think of to research this?  

Here's a description of GM's version of MDS.  I saw an acticle about Daimler's
in the past, but darned if I can find it now:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0405phr_gmdod/index.html

The relevant text is a follows:

"Currently, we could disable just the fuel delivery," says Meagher, "but the
valves would still be opening and closing and each cylinder would still be
doing work pumping air in and out. So there would be no net gain in
efficiency--you wouldn't have eliminated the pumping losses at all."

and:

"We disable the valves through a device called a switching lifter," explains
Meagher. "This differs from a normal lifter in that there is an inner body and
an outer body connected by a spring-loaded pin. For V-8 operation, the pin is
fully expanded by the spring so the two pieces act as one and the lifter acts
like a regular lifter. When we want to disable the valve operation, we deliver
high-pressure oil to a groove in the lifter that leads to the outside end of
the pin, forcing the pin to collapse the spring. Now the two parts of the
lifter are free to move relative to one another and as the cam lobe pushes on
the follower the inner portion of the lifter pushes against another spring at
the top of the lifter and does not transfer force to the pushrod."

I believe that Eaton developed the lifter and that both GM and Daimler are
using it.  Don't quote me on that, though...

-John
Patrick - 20 Dec 2004 19:55 GMT
One word, Never buy a new release vehicules... stay away for at least 1
year....

--
LE CLONE

279 Notre-Dame
Gatineau, Qc
J8P 1K6
(819) 643-0511
SANS FRAIS 1 888 643 0511
NOUVEAU REVENDEUR AUTORISEE SERVICE INTERNET

patrick@leclone.com
www.leclone.com

President
Patrick Guarnaccia
> Hi Mike,
>      I don't see how they could do it that way. They would sound like a
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Mike Romain - 20 Dec 2004 20:24 GMT
From this site:
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html

Quote:
The system deactivates the valve lifters. This keeps the valves in four
cylinders closed, and there is no combustion. In addition to stopping
combustion, energy is not lost by pumping air through these cylinders.
End.

Sounds sweet, eh.  LOL!

Mike

"L.W.(ßill) Hughes III" wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>      I don't see how they could do it that way. They would sound like a
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Dave Milne - 20 Dec 2004 20:49 GMT
So there's a vacuum in the cylinder ?

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

> From this site:
> http://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Mike Romain - 20 Dec 2004 20:59 GMT
It would be acting like a compression stroke so there would be minimal
vacuum as long as the rings were perfect.  Get a little worn and I can
see severe drag really fast.

Mike

> So there's a vacuum in the cylinder ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
F. Robert Falbo - 22 Dec 2004 22:25 GMT
> It would be acting like a compression stroke so there would be minimal
> vacuum as long as the rings were perfect.  Get a little worn and I can
> see severe drag really fast.

From their description, it sounds like the same principle as compressing
a rubber ball - yes, you put energy in when you compress it, but you get
most of it back when you release it.  There's always some loss to friction
and heat, but it shouldn't be too bad.

Signature

-bob-
_______________________
SuSE LINUX 9.2

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 20 Dec 2004 22:37 GMT
    On paper.
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> From this site:
> http://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Mike
Sean Prinz - 21 Dec 2004 00:40 GMT
As far as the Fly by wire accelerator,  My FSM on my Ram 1500 Hemi says to
turn the key to the on position and let it sit for >10 secs to calibrate the
accelerator.   You shouldn't have to do this very often unless the battery
is disco'd or a PCM flash is updated.

>      On paper.
>         God Bless America, ?ill O|||||||O
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> >
> > Mike
mic canic - 21 Dec 2004 23:57 GMT
i have not heard of any lifter issues
hell we haven't even had one engine apart yet at my dealer
i do know that they have been making 80 hemis a day at the plant and could make
110 a day but were told to keep the 80 going so quility stays high
whiuch means some delay on new models from what a friend told me whos pretty
high up, he did say the dak is getting one buts its's a year out at least

> > the m.d.s has been out as long as the 300c has
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> -John
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 17 Dec 2004 20:08 GMT
Hi Mike,
    That was a sad period in Cadillac's history, I think '79? The
f**kin' environmentalists sabotage our own factories, and gave the
Japanese a free pass to flood our land with plastic imitations.
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Is that the same type of abortion GM gave up on years ago?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Patrick - 17 Dec 2004 20:16 GMT
RENT a Hemi do a swap parts... LOL

HARASS THE DEALER !!!
i would anyway

i would camp in their driveway.

--
--
LE CLONE

279 Notre-Dame
Gatineau, Qc
J8P 1K6
(819) 643-0511
SANS FRAIS 1 888 643 0511
NOUVEAU REVENDEUR AUTORISEE SERVICE INTERNET

patrick@leclone.com
www.leclone.com

President
Patrick Guarnaccia
> Hi Mike,
>      That was a sad period in Cadillac's history, I think '79? The
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 17 Dec 2004 21:22 GMT
    Dissatisfied car buyers that say, paint a lemon on the side of that
car and park it near the Stealership, usually sign over their homes to
the Stealership.
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> RENT a Hemi do a swap parts... LOL
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> President
> Patrick Guarnaccia
Tigger - 18 Dec 2004 01:59 GMT
Thanks for the articles. I wrote to DC as follows:

DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center
P.O. Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004

Attention: Alan Falkowski

Gentlemen:

I recently purchased a new, 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee limited with the
HEMI(R) MDS engine option. My VIN number is:
1-------------------------. I took delivery of the Vehicle last Friday
12/10/04 from Smith Haven Automotive Group, St. James, NY.

There are two things I feel during acceleration in the range of
approximately 1700 to 4000rpm:

1)    Acceleration is uneven. With steady throttle pedal pressure, the
vehicle accelerates unevenly with bursts of power similar to that of a
2 stroke motorcycle power band. This is not to be confused with normal
shifting of the transmission. This is a real unevenness with bursts of
power at different intervals from 1700 rpm through 4000rpm with a
steady, even foot.
2)    During acceleration multiple, mini interruptions in power or
hesitations occur. Although these hesitations are minor, they are
frequent during acceleration and noticeable. It almost feels like the
motor may be hindered by some type of malfunction in the MDS system or
that normal operation of the MDS system may cause the engine to
hesitate.

The above conditions occurred from the first time I drove the vehicle.

The vehicles check engine light came on within 15 minutes of driving it
off the lot at Smith Haven Auto Group in St. James, NY. I returned the
vehicle and they reset the light which came on as soon as I left the
lot for the second time. I dropped off the Jeep the following day. The
dealer spent almost 2 full days trying to determine the problem. I
reported the hesitation to them as well. They had told me that they had
been on the phone with your engineers and had determined that a chaffed
wire behind the engine block, connected to the MDS system may have been
the culprit. I visited them while they worked on my Jeep and saw that
they had the entire top section of the motor apart.

The check engine light is no longer illuminated but both the problems I
mentioned above still exist.

I am not a letter writing wacko. I'm concerned. My vehicle feels as
if it can't be trusted. I believe unreliable is the term I'm
looking for. If there's a problem that Chrysler engineers are aware
of, that's fine with me. Just keep me informed and I'll wait out
the fix. I will even volunteer as a guinea pig if it will help them
resolve these issues. If there are no similar complaints than I'm
afraid I may have a vehicle which I am almost certain has some huge
power train issues that were there prior to purchase.

Please pass this message along to the Chrysler Engineering staff so
that this issue gets the attention it most likely deserves. I am also
willing to part with the vehicle for some time if Chrysler wishes to
inspect the vehicle further.

On a side note; I am pleased with the Dealer and their efforts to
accommodate me. Special thanks to Tim Burk who has made buying a new
Jeep a pleasant experience. I am also pleased to own a new Jeep with
such cutting edge technology. Let's try to work out these bugs
together.
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 18 Dec 2004 02:04 GMT
    Use their email contact, too:
http://www.jeep.com/wccsapp/universal/J/index.jsp
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Thanks for the articles. I wrote to DC as follows:
>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
> such cutting edge technology. Let's try to work out these bugs
> together.
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 18 Dec 2004 02:09 GMT
    Use their email contact, too:
http://www.jeep.com/universal/J/index.jsp?actionURL=/wccs/brand_forms/us/input.j
sp&titleStr=Contact+Jeep&leftNavURL=/wccs/brand_forms/us/templates/J/left.jsp&fr
anchise=J&familyStr=brand&family=brand&appStr=wccs&prefix
=
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Thanks for the articles. I wrote to DC as follows:
>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
> such cutting edge technology. Let's try to work out these bugs
> together.
Matt Macchiarolo - 18 Dec 2004 16:44 GMT
Good luck on that, they basically told me to go fly a kite when I asked them
for an aftermarket trans oil for the 3550 (before it was available
aftermarket)

>      Use their email contact, too:

http://www.jeep.com/universal/J/index.jsp?actionURL=/wccs/brand_forms/us/inp
ut.jsp&titleStr=Contact+Jeep&leftNavURL=/wccs/brand_forms/us/templates/J/lef
t.jsp&franchise=J&familyStr=brand&family=brand&appStr=wccs&prefix=
>         God Bless America, ?ill O|||||||O
> mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> > such cutting edge technology. Let's try to work out these bugs
> > together.
Matt Macchiarolo - 18 Dec 2004 16:43 GMT
Check to make sure they didn't pull the bulb on the Check Engine light.

> Thanks for the articles. I wrote to DC as follows:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Attention: Alan Falkowski
Lon - 18 Dec 2004 04:09 GMT
Mike Romain proclaimed:

> Is that the same type of abortion GM gave up on years ago?
>
> The stupid 8, 6, 4 cylinder engine?

  No, not that bad.  Different technology, somewhat more reliable
  by being a rather simple trick.

> Good luck man.

  I think he got a lemon, either as a dealer or a vehicle.
  I know of 4 vehicles with the 8/4 hemi and none of them have any
  troubles.  One driver wasn't even aware they had a variable
  displacement engine.   Plus have hotrodded the Hemi GC at the
  lo cal dealer myself and it has no hesitation I can detect.  And
  loves onramps.
Matt Macchiarolo - 18 Dec 2004 16:40 GMT
The fuel delivery system is much more advanced than the GM effort. Sounds
like he might have a problem with the fuel delivery system, though...

> Is that the same type of abortion GM gave up on years ago?
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> > terminoligy is not the best. I'm bummed. I love the truck. just started
> > searching the groups to see if anyone else has the same problem.
mic canic - 19 Dec 2004 01:06 GMT
not to make excuses for the jeep but keep in mind the engine no longer has
a throttle cable which does result in some lag time that cannot be removed
and i like u think it sucks
the throttle is not 2 electric motors basicly
it also takes about 2000 miles for the computers to learn your driving
habits and idle routines

> I took delivery of a 2005 GC Limited w/ HEMI(R) MDS. I am not pleased
> and not sure i want to fight it out with the dealer and chrysler or
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> terminoligy is not the best. I'm bummed. I love the truck. just started
> searching the groups to see if anyone else has the same problem.
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 01 Dec 2004 06:03 GMT
    It should have a nice ride, it has the passenger car suspension you
seen, and gave me the picture of: http://www.billhughes.com/cherokee/ 
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com

> They ride nice and sure have plenty of power
> but I'm not so sure about the inside.  The rear
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Might change my mind in a year, but for now I'm keeping
> the 93.
Mood - 01 Dec 2004 03:59 GMT
The Hemi is nice, but I'm definitly not a fan of the Benz'ish headlamps.
Damn Deiter!

>I saw the new GC with the 5.7? L Hemi when my 02 GC was in for service
>recently (recall on the gas tank).
>
> Has anyone tried these out yet? The one in the showroom was decked out and
> it had about a $40k sticker on it.
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 01 Dec 2004 05:59 GMT
    Dieter, in German means killer, and he's doing a good job of
killing the Jeep name.
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> The Hemi is nice, but I'm definitly not a fan of the Benz'ish headlamps.
> Damn Deiter!
Kevin O'Brien - 01 Dec 2004 07:24 GMT
I think the new 05 Grand's will grow on people, I work for a Jeep
dealer, sales, at first I didn't care for the new design at all, now
that I've been seeing them for a bit I like it over the  WJ's...

Kevin

> The Hemi is nice, but I'm definitly not a fan of the Benz'ish headlamps.
> Damn Deiter!
mark - 01 Dec 2004 08:58 GMT
Fungus grows on you too. That don't make it right. --
mark
www.hydrotoys.com

>I think the new 05 Grand's will grow on people, I work for a Jeep
> dealer, sales, at first I didn't care for the new design at all, now
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> The Hemi is nice, but I'm definitly not a fan of the Benz'ish headlamps.
>> Damn Deiter!
PoBoy - 01 Dec 2004 12:09 GMT
When you see a pacifica and a new jeep GC side by side you see a
lot of simularity in the body shape.

> Fungus grows on you too. That don't make it right. --
> mark
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>>The Hemi is nice, but I'm definitly not a fan of the Benz'ish headlamps.
>>>Damn Deiter!
DragonRider - 02 Dec 2004 03:35 GMT
>When you see a pacifica and a new jeep GC side by side you see a
>lot of simularity in the body shape.

The WJ's rear hatch looks like it was the same part number as the town
& country mini-vans... Oh well. At least the Pacifica is a really nice
(though pricey) Crossover.
DragonRider - 02 Dec 2004 03:35 GMT
>The Hemi is nice, but I'm definitly not a fan of the Benz'ish headlamps.
>Damn Deiter!

The new E-class SUV is apparently badged as a Jeep.. then again their
ML is a minivan no matter what label you want to put on it..
Viriiman - 02 Dec 2004 07:10 GMT
Does the new GC have IFS?

Hank
mabar - 02 Dec 2004 12:48 GMT
Yes

> Does the new GC have IFS?
>
> Hank
Viriiman - 02 Dec 2004 14:49 GMT
> Yes
>
>>Does the new GC have IFS?
>>
>>Hank

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

There's another vehicle I can scratch off the list.
SoK66 - 02 Dec 2004 16:41 GMT
> Does the new GC have IFS?

Yes. That, combined with other dumbing down moves DC made to it for '05 has
rendered the GC a nutless SUV poser. A Ford Explorer is now abetter
off-roader. My favorite change, they put a chin spoiler on it that'll last
about ten seconds on the trail. Oh, but don;t be doiscouraged, it has a
"Trail Rated" badge! Total hogwash, looks like Hell, too.
attnews - 03 Dec 2004 19:57 GMT
look carefully underneath..  that might kill any desire for one of these
things..
> I saw the new GC with the 5.7? L Hemi when my 02 GC was in for service
> recently (recall on the gas tank).
>
> Has anyone tried these out yet? The one in the showroom was decked out and
> it had about a $40k sticker on it.
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 03 Dec 2004 20:23 GMT
    That's for sure judging by the pictures Doug W. took:
http://www.billhughes.com/cherokee/
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com

> look carefully underneath..  that might kill any desire for one of these
> things..
Tigger - 17 Dec 2004 02:11 GMT
I took delivery of a 2005 GC Limited w/ HEMI(R) MDS. I am not pleased
and not sure i want to fight it out with the dealer and chrysler or
not.

Upon leaving the dealer: engine light came on and stayed on. Hesitation
during normal exceleration.
Dealer kept truck for 1.5 days and had the hole top of the motor apart
and the chrsyler engineers on the phone. They chalked it up to a chafed
wire connected to the MDS system. well i got my new jeep back and im
very very upset.

yes it has monster power but it has these hesitations throughout
exceleration that drive me nuts. They are not obvious jerk u back and
forth hesitations. They are an unevenness in applyed power through
exceleration. I HATE it. makes me feel like its not put together
correctly. My wif has an escalade with a 345hp engine that is smooth as
silk through power application. My HEMI is more like a 2 stroke
kawasaki as it has high spots and low spots in power application from
1700 all the way up through 4000rps. I'm sorry guys im sure my
terminoligy is not the best. I'm bummed. I love the truck. just started
searching the groups to see if anyone else has the same problem.
 
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