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Car Forum / Jeep / March 2005undercoating
my rubicon hasnt arrived yet but my dealership was preparing my paperwork so that we could get everything done in advance. he asked if i wanted the undercoating/detail for $162. he said they undercoat the entire undercarraige and then detail/wax the jeep. i dont care about the waxing part, but im wondering if the undercoat they do is worth doing or if its a waste of $162. thanks. Nathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com Hi Sandman, I'd would let them do it. Maybe quiz the guy that will be doing it, to make sure he doesn't spray any of the cases causing any overheating problem that will destroy their lubricants. Making sure he doesn't close any body drain holes. And look, Daimler doesn't bother to paint the undercarriage: http://7slotgrille.com/tech/sye2/index.html God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > my rubicon hasnt arrived yet but my dealership was preparing my > paperwork so that we could get everything done in advance. he asked if [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > http://7SlotGrille.com > http://UtilityOffRoad.com keep in mind that since you have snow all winter (as do I) your TJ will see salted roads all winter, as does mine. Bill's pictures are referring to a TJ that had already seen 4 Michigan winters when those pics were taken. If the undercoating has gaps or open bubbles, salt will collect in those spots. My advice, skip the undercoating and power-wash the underside of the Jeep every month in winter. > Hi Sandman, > I'd would let them do it. Maybe quiz the guy that will be doing it, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> http://7SlotGrille.com >> http://UtilityOffRoad.com > keep in mind that since you have snow all winter (as do I) your TJ will > see salted roads all winter im lucky in that respect. montana doesnt use salt, instead they put out dirt and gravel. > skip the undercoating and power-wash the underside of the Jeep every month > in winter. definately. ive always washed my undercarraige with more care than my body panels. im working on installing a floor drain in my garage for that very reason.  SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com If they don't salt, why would you need the undercoating? Your sheet metal is zinc'd at the factory. >>keep in mind that since you have snow all winter (as do I) your TJ will >>see salted roads all winter > > im lucky in that respect. montana doesnt use salt, instead they put out > dirt and gravel. Signature___________________________________________________________ tw 71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco 03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5" 01 XJ Sport There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." -- Dave Barry Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940 Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase') A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase, 1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II. (Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email) ___________________________________________________________ > If they don't salt, why would you need the undercoating? Your sheet metal > is zinc'd at the factory. hell i dunno....i never gave it a any thought before the dealer asked me if i wanted it. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com In that case...save your money for the stuff you are really going to want... >> If they don't salt, why would you need the undercoating? Your sheet metal >> is zinc'd at the factory. > > hell i dunno....i never gave it a any thought before the dealer asked me > if i wanted it. Nathan W. Collier proclaimed: >>keep in mind that since you have snow all winter (as do I) your TJ will >>see salted roads all winter [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > panels. im working on installing a floor drain in my garage for that very > reason. I'd check with any local undercoating shops in the area for what they charge and what they use. Some folks prefer the waxy style, some the more tacky tar style. > im lucky in that respect. montana doesnt use salt, instead they put out > dirt and gravel. Well, maybe lucky. Get a bra and/or bug deflector for the front. Oh, and keep a good distance between you and the vehicle in front of you. Otherwise, by the time summer gets around you'll have one ugly front end. They did the same thing where I grew up in Alaska. Having a windshield repair/replacement business is certainly a money maker up there! Eric 99 TJ SE >> keep in mind that since you have snow all winter (as do I) your TJ will >> see salted roads all winter [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > body panels. im working on installing a floor drain in my garage for that > very reason. > Well, maybe lucky. Get a bra and/or bug deflector for the front. Oh, and > keep a good distance between you and the vehicle in front of you. > Otherwise, by the time summer gets around you'll have one ugly front end. > They did the same thing where I grew up in Alaska. Having a windshield > repair/replacement business is certainly a money maker up there! yeah, winter is effectively over now and we made it through without a single chip. most folks are running mud flaps up here and they do a decent job. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com > im lucky in that respect. montana doesnt use salt, instead they put out > dirt and gravel. This adds to damage: chips to wheel well paint, underbody zinc, hood, doors etc. It just takes a bit more time and corrosion is there. Marko >> keep in mind that since you have snow all winter (as do I) your TJ will >> see salted roads all winter > > im lucky in that respect. montana doesnt use salt, instead they put out > dirt and gravel. When I was in MT last spring I was told that they've started using salt in a few ski resort towns -- because the touristas and moneybaggers (multi-million dollar "log cabins") expect it. -- "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with whips....r" R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. > When I was in MT last spring I was told that they've started using salt in > a few ski resort towns -- because the touristas and moneybaggers > (multi-million dollar "log cabins") expect it. i havent heard of that, and would be surprised to find that its true. as a whole, montanans dont care much for people who come in and try to change things. you should read our state constitution sometime, much of it is written specifically to prevent someone coming in and changing things. red lodge is a big ski resort/tourist town and i know they dont use salt. i went pretty much all over montana this past winter (work related) from beartooth pass to the blackfeet reservation, sidney to well into idaho and only recall dirt at gravel. not saying its not possible, just that id be real surprised about it if it is. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com > "Lee Ayrton" <layrton@panix.com> wrote in message >> When I was in MT last spring I was told that they've started using salt >> in a few ski resort towns -- because the touristas and moneybaggers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > as a whole, montanans dont care much for people who come in and try to > change things. I know. I've been sleeping with a Montanian for more than a dozen years. But you would have had no way of knowing that. > you should read our state constitution sometime, much of Her grandmother was part of the 1972 constitutional convention that wrote that constitution. But you would have had no way of knowing that. > it is written specifically to prevent someone coming in and changing > things. red lodge is a big ski resort/tourist town and i know they dont > use salt. After I posted that I remembered that we were in Whitefish when we were told about "road salt" and heard the lament that their cars were going to start rusting. Seems like my informant was right, for a fairly wide value of "salt": 2. MDT - Maintenance Program <URL:http://www.mdt.state.mt.us/departments/maintenance/deicer_use.shtml> 3. MDT - Maintenance Program FAQs <URL:http://www.mdt.state.mt.us/departments/maintenance/faq.shtml> Magnesium chloride _is_ a salt, but isn't what you or I would think of first as road salt. Here in Connecticut it would be calcium chloride, other places might use sodium chloride, I dunno. MDT claims it is less corrosive than sodium or calcium. > i went pretty much all over montana this past winter (work > related) from beartooth pass to the blackfeet reservation, sidney to > well into idaho and only recall dirt at gravel. not saying its not > possible, just that id be real surprised about it if it is. Lovely country, for the most part. The former mining towns tend to be dreary but that's because they're former mines. But before you get too enamored of all that history of rugged individualism check out the law MT enacted (briefly) during WWII making it a crime to criticize the government. Everybody has their little slip-ups. -- "I defer to your plainly more vivid memories of topless women with whips....r" R. H. Draney recalls AFU in the Good Old Days. > After I posted that I remembered that we were in Whitefish when we were > told about "road salt" and heard the lament that their cars were going to > start rusting. > > Seems like my informant was right, for a fairly wide value of "salt": i cant be sure but im betting that may be in the areas of kalispell/missoula maybe. ive seen those trucks spraying liquid on the roads up there. ive never seen any of it anywhere around here, just gravel and dirt. we're currently getting snow and the plows are running, ill ask one of the drivers what all theyre using out here. ill be really surprised if its anything other than dirt and gravel. im leaving a lot of distance between me and the cars in front of me thats for sure. my jeep windshields seem to love rocks and we got em all over during snow. > 2. MDT - Maintenance Program > <URL:http://www.mdt.state.mt.us/departments/maintenance/deicer_use.shtml> > > 3. MDT - Maintenance Program FAQs > <URL:http://www.mdt.state.mt.us/departments/maintenance/faq.shtml> pretty interesting article, ive wondered what those trucks were. as i read the second article it doesnt appear to be widely used but ill ask and see what feedback i get. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com I wouldn't. I wouldn't trust any numpty ( Scottish word for idiot) wax my car for fear they would use a rotary buffer and leave swirl marks. And getting your underbody properly waxoyled costs a hell of a lot more than $162 over here - can't see them spending the time to do it properly. Dave Milne, Scotland '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ > my rubicon hasnt arrived yet but my dealership was preparing my > paperwork so that we could get everything done in advance. he asked if [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > http://7SlotGrille.com > http://UtilityOffRoad.com My buddy is the former head mechanic at a now defunct Pontiac dealer,and he said it was a big money maker for the dealer. It was the Rusty Jones stuff way back when, maybe 25years or so. >I wouldn't. > I wouldn't trust any numpty ( Scottish word for idiot) wax my car for fear [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> http://7SlotGrille.com >> http://UtilityOffRoad.com montanajeeper did pass the time by typing: > my rubicon hasnt arrived yet but my dealership was preparing my > paperwork so that we could get everything done in advance. he asked if > i wanted the undercoating/detail for $162. he said they undercoat the > entire undercarraige and then detail/wax the jeep. i dont care about > the waxing part, but im wondering if the undercoat they do is worth > doing or if its a waste of $162. thanks. IMHO, a waste of money. Cars come factory undercoated and in several cases adding addional undercoating voids the factory rust warantee. Besides which, all they do is rattle-can on undercoating you could do yourself for $30 or less. As for waxing, that's pure bullshit. The dealer should detail your car for delivery as a part of the service. Seriously, clean it yourself, that way some lowbuck trainee doesn't scratch the paint before you can. SignatureDougW > montanajeeper did pass the time by typing: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > it yourself, that way some lowbuck trainee doesn't scratch the > paint before you can. Undercoating I can understand, though I'm certainly not sure that it is a good deal, as priced. Waxing should be left until the vehicle is a few months old. Ask any auto painter and they will tell you not to wax until the paint has outgassed for a few weeks. Regards, DAve > > montanajeeper did pass the time by typing: > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > months old. Ask any auto painter and they will tell you not to wax until > the paint has outgassed for a few weeks. By the time he finnaly gets it delivered to West Nowhere (Billings), the paint will have had time to outgas form the sound of it <g>. Nate, you still local to Billings? Wife says we have to run up there soon - grandkids need spoiling. SignatureWill Honea > By the time he finnaly gets it delivered to West Nowhere (Billings), > the paint will have had time to outgas form the sound of it <g>. heh......now thats the truth! > Nate, you still local to Billings? Wife says we have to run up there > soon - grandkids need spoiling. sure am, just bought a house in 59101. you let me know when youre headed this way. ill make sure the beer is cold, and ive always got some buffalo steaks on hand. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com > Cars come factory undercoated and in several cases adding > addional undercoating voids the factory rust warantee. > Besides which, all they do is rattle-can on undercoating you > could do yourself for $30 or less. Again: this depends on anti-corrosion handling. Mine did not remove factory warranty (what was left of it), but adds an extra one (this was with converted USA/European DCX warranty). Self apply: How well you can wash the underbody from dirt and salt alreday there, if you get delivery of the vehicle in winter? If not done properly, you just create ideal enviromnent for corrosion to progress invisible. Marko check out Rust Check (www.rustcheck.com) its my understanding that its available through Kmart great stuff. Snow... > montanajeeper did pass the time by typing: >> my rubicon hasnt arrived yet but my dealership was preparing my [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it yourself, that way some lowbuck trainee doesn't scratch the > paint before you can. Damn, Nathan. waxing is part of Dealer Prep and is included in the MSRP. As far as undercoating, if I _was_ going to do it, I'd do it myself. > my rubicon hasnt arrived yet but my dealership was preparing my > paperwork so that we could get everything done in advance. he asked if [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > http://7SlotGrille.com > http://UtilityOffRoad.com Signature___________________________________________________________ tw 71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco 03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5" 01 XJ Sport There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." -- Dave Barry Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940 Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase') A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase, 1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II. (Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email) ___________________________________________________________ > waxing is part of Dealer Prep and is included in the MSRP. i dont think that applies if youre paying green sheet. they even charge you $15 for the gas that comes in the tank, undertandably. > As far as undercoating, if I _was_ going to do it, I'd do it myself. ive often wondered why people rhino line the inside of their tubs. would make more sense to me to rhino line the under side of the tub. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com My '02 TJ has a LOT of undercarriage rust. Of course, Cleveland Ohio winters and TONS of salt on the roads don't help. I think I am going to have my next new vehicle undercoated by Ziebart. Do you have a Ziebart near you Nathan? If so, you might want to talk to them first, before making a decision. http://www.ziebart.com/prodServicesMain.htm I would NOT trust the dealer to do a proper job. Tom > > waxing is part of Dealer Prep and is included in the MSRP. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ive often wondered why people rhino line the inside of their tubs. would > make more sense to me to rhino line the under side of the tub. mabar says... > My '02 TJ has a LOT of undercarriage rust. Of course, Cleveland Ohio winters > and TONS of salt on the roads don't help. I think I am going to have my next [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tom I gotta jump in here with an opinion based on experience. My girlfriend had her new car Ziebarted in 1986, and returned every year for the inspection and maintenance spray. About four years ago we discovered that the floors were gone and half the firewall is paper-thin. For years they had been "maintenance-spraying" the carpet from underneath. After a few non- productive phone calls she threatened to take them to court. They finally settled by paying her back an amount that more-or-less equaled what she had paid them over the years for maintenance. I'm not really sure that black goo doesn't just provide a barrier that keeps moisture from evaporating. I'd be more inclined to just wash the undercarriage regularly, especially if there is no salt involved. SignatureDale Beckett I used this stuff inside and out, did my entire tub, undercoated my undercarriage and used POR15 inside my doors and window frame. http://www.herculiner.com/ I put 3 coats in the tub and two coats underneath it costs around $150.00 I did not use the rollers or stuff that came with the kit I used a stenciling brush which worked better. Just follow the directions on prep if you don't you will regret it. It took me a whole weekend plus Monday after work to put everything back together. I get a lot of complements on the job I even did the door sills it also helps insulate and reduce road noise. I removed all the carpeting out of the Sahara which really works out well. When I was in the USCG I did the same thing with a vinyl paint we used on buoys inside and out when I sold the CJ 20 years later no rust. Maintenance and being anal are the keys for a long life in any vehicle. I had a 1973 Toyota PU that I bought new and when I sold it 22 years later with 500,000 miles on it no rust (buoy paint) and the engine only burned 1 qt of oil between changes. HarryS >> waxing is part of Dealer Prep and is included in the MSRP. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ive often wondered why people rhino line the inside of their tubs. would > make more sense to me to rhino line the under side of the tub. I used this stuff inside and out, did my entire tub, undercoated my undercarriage and used POR15 inside my doors and window frame. http://www.herculiner.com/ I put 3 coats in the tub and two coats underneath it costs around $150.00 I did not use the rollers or stuff that came with the kit I used a stenciling brush which worked better. Just follow the directions on prep if you don't you will regret it. It took me a whole weekend plus Monday after work to put everything back together. I get a lot of complements on the job I even did the door sills it also helps insulate and reduce road noise. I removed all the carpeting out of the Sahara which really works out well. When I was in the USCG I did the same thing with a vinyl paint we used on buoys inside and out when I sold the CJ 20 years later no rust. Maintenance and being anal are the keys for a long life in any vehicle. I had a 1973 Toyota PU that I bought new and when I sold it 22 years later with 500,000 miles on it no rust (buoy paint) and the engine only burned 1 qt of oil between changes. HarryS >> waxing is part of Dealer Prep and is included in the MSRP. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ive often wondered why people rhino line the inside of their tubs. would > make more sense to me to rhino line the under side of the tub. Sure it is. They just don't want you to think so and they get to charge you more money. > "twaldron" <thomas@OBVIOUSrubicons.com> wrote in message >>waxing is part of Dealer Prep and is included in the MSRP. > > i dont think that applies if youre paying green sheet. they even charge you > $15 for the gas that comes in the tank, undertandably. Signature___________________________________________________________ tw 71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco 03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5" 01 XJ Sport There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." -- Dave Barry Pronunciation: 'jEp Function: noun Date: 1940 Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase') A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase, 1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II. (Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email) ___________________________________________________________ Sandman.. drive North my boy.. Visit the Wilds of Canada and while your here go visit either a Rust Check shop or Krown. I cant speak for Krown but Rust Check carries their own warranty on rust through for new cars and NO it doesn't void the manufactures. Your Jeep might cost you about $115-145 Cdn due to its new and never been done before.. they drill holes (yes holes) in your doors, lower pillars and rockers if the factory hasn't. The Gent I use here in Ontario has a big contract with two cities for their fire departments, the police contract, local utilities, a local Ford dealer sends customers there too and every Dec. 6 he does Santa's ride this year it was a nice new 05 stang (local dealer supplied it providing it got sprayed for free). http://www.rustcheck.com/ http://www.krown.com/ Snow... > my rubicon hasnt arrived yet but my dealership was preparing my > paperwork so that we could get everything done in advance. he asked if [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > http://7SlotGrille.com > http://UtilityOffRoad.com From what I've seen, Krown is a good way to go. It has to be applied every year though. Soon after I got my Jeep Krowned I saw an old K car station wagon with the proud owner saying he Krowned it every year with no body work done, ever! K cars have disappeared years ago from salt around here. I was impressed. > Sandman.. drive North my boy.. Visit the Wilds of Canada and while your here > go visit either a Rust Check shop or Krown. I cant speak for Krown but Rust [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>http://7SlotGrille.com >>http://UtilityOffRoad.com > i wanted the undercoating/detail for $162. he said they undercoat the > entire undercarraige and then detail/wax the jeep. i dont care about > the waxing part, but im wondering if the undercoat they do is worth > doing or if its a waste of $162. thanks. Sounds too cheap to be true... Underbody coating is not enough, I have http://www.dinitrol.com/ TuffKote Dinol handling in WJ. In short program consists of putting anti-corrosion into underbody as well as cavities below window line (for example inside door, between water block plastic and sheet metal). Authorized shops are, in northern europe, under ISO9001 (one can state ISO9001 as 'we have no quality' in paper an fill spec :-). And decent shop shows you the sematics and drawings what materials and where in your vehicle these are put. Drawback is that you have to either suffer for odd aromatic carbon combound odor for a week or keep the vehicle couple of days all doors open in well ventilated garage. Another drawback is price: roughly 1KEUR for anti-corrosion handling in Finland. This was more detailed anti-corrosion program than the shaky details dealer gave upon WJ purchase for DCX approved handling. And a bit better than they place to northern europe models be default in Graz factory. Marko |
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