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Car Forum / Jeep / April 2005

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HOW TO TIGHTEN UP MY CJ FRONT END. TIE ROD, BRACE BOX, WHEEL BEARINGS, STILL A DANCER

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OldARMYJEEP@gmail.com - 22 Apr 2005 00:52 GMT
IN OCTOBER WILL MARK 2 YEARS SINCE I PURCHASED THE JEEP FROM HELL.
NEEDLESS TO SAY IT HAS BEEN A TREMENDOUS UNDERTAKING. I BOUGHT IT
THINKING THAT I COULD RESTORE IT AND SINCE IT ALREADY HAD THE LIFT,
33X15.50X15 SWAMPER TSL/SX TIRES AND NEW AQUAMAX TRAIL SEATS AND CUSTOM
DASH WITH AUTOMETER GUAGESI FIGURED I HAD SOMETHING TO START WITH. WHEN
I STARTED WORKING ON THIS JEEP, NOTHING WORKED. ABOUT THE ONLY THINGS I
HAVENT CHANGED ARE THE PARTS I JUST MENTIONED, HELL, I EVEN HAD TO
REPLACE TO GUAGES, TWO FUEL SENDING UNITS(NO GAS READING),(NO TRIP) A
SPEDOMETER GEARIN THE TRANSFER CASE TO BRING THE MILES UP FROM ZERO,
AND THE WATER TEMP GUAGE. PLUS I GAVE THE GUY A POS 85 NISSAN DATSUN
WITH 280K AND IT WASNT MY PROUDEST MOMENT IN AUTOMOTIVE HISTORY. I SAW
THE JEEP AND GAVE THE GUY ALL OF MY HARD EARNED CASH, 2000+ THE
TRUCK(700.00) PLUS THE AGREEMENT TO PAY HIM 500 MORE. EVERY TIME I
DROVE IT SOMETHING ELSE BROKE. IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO PAY HIM BACK. I
DONT EVEN KNOW HOW MUCH I HAVE IN THIS BEAST. WHEN I STARTEDI WAS THE
SHOPS BIT@#, NOW 1000 PARTS LATER I AM A DECENT MECHANIC. BUT i AM AT
THE END OF MY ROPE WITH THIS CJ AND I AM NOWHERE NEAR RESTORED. AFTER
ONE PIECE AT A TIME REPLACING NUMEROUS PARTS IN MY FRONT END I STILL
DONT FEEL SAFE ENOUGH TO LET ANYONE ELSE DRIVE IT, NOW THAT I BOUGHT AN
XJ I FEEL SAFER LEAVING MY CJ PARKED INCASE I WIN THE LOTTERY, IN WHICH
CASE I WILL JUST ORDER EVERY PART NEW FROM THE CATALOG THAT I CAN THINK
OF.
I STARTED WITH A SET OF POLYURETHANE BUSHINGS FOR THE SHAKLES WHICH ARE
HEAVY DUTY AND LARGER THAN STOCK. THIS HELPED ABOUT 5% OF MY PROBLEM.
THEN I PUT THE BUSHING ON MY STEERING SHAFT. I MIGHT AS WELL HAVE SPIT
INTO THE WIND.
I TIGHTENED THE WHEEL BEARINGS, THIS HELPED
I TOOK IT IN FOR A MUFFLER AND THE GUY TELLS ME MY WORM GEAR IS WORN
OUT IN MY STEERING BOX. I HAD JUST REPLACED MY TIE RODS, DRAG LINK AND
MY BALL JOINTS WERE GOOD, BUT IM STILL LOOSE. SO
I GET A NEW BOX, STILL LOOSE. THEN THE PRESIDENT OF SOUTHERN MUDDERS
TELLS ME THAT MY STEERING GEOMETRY IS ALL OUT OF WHACK. SO I DRIVE THE
THINK LIKE IM IN WORLD WAR TWO, BUT I DONT CARE, CUZ IF IT BREAKS, THEN
AT LEAST I KNOW "THATS WHAT I KNOW I NEED TO FIX" INSTEAD OF WHATS THAT
NOISE?" I GET A DROP PIT MAN ARM, STILL, HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO. I AM
DRIVING IT LIKE MACGYVER AND TRYING TO KEEP THIS THING ON THE ROAD. I
LOST MY CARBUERATOR BECAUSE THE SCREWS VIBRATED OUT, SO I HAD TO RIG
SOME SORT OF BRAKE HOLD DOWN PIN FASTENING SYSTEM. HALF WAY BETWEEN
SOUTH CAROLINA AND MIAMI. NOW IM IN MIAMI AND IM STUCK HERE. I HAVE A
XJ THAT NEEDS WORK, AND A CJ THAT NEEDS A BULLET, BUT I JUST CANT BRING
MYSELF TO ADMIT IT. I ALMOST LOST MY STEERING BOX, SO I PUT A BIG DADDY
OFF ROAD STEERING BRACE. NO MORE F'ING AROUND, IM BUILDING THIS RIG TWO
WITHSTAND A NUCLEAR ATTACK.
SO I PUT ALL OF THIS AND IM STILL DANCING, BUT ITS ALOT BETTER. THE
STEERING WHEEL IS TIGHT FOR THE MOST PART, BUT THE SHACKLES ARE LOOSE
AGAIN. PLUS MY REAR SPRING PERCH WAS BROKEN. PROBABLY NOT GOOD SO
FEARING FOR MY LIFE I TAKE IT THE GUY WITH A WELDER AND WE PUT IT BACK
TOGETHER LIKE HUMPTY DUMPTY. I DONT KNOWIF MY TIRES ARE SEPARATED OR MY
RIMS ARE BENT OR IS THE ABSENCE OF A STEERING STABILIZER REALLY CAUSING
ME THAT MUCH OF AN ISSUE. I HIT A BUMP AND I HOLD ON, THE POWER
STEERING WASNT EVEN HOOKED UP WHEN I FIRST GOT THE DAMN THING SO MY
ARMS ARE PRETTY STRONG. THE STABILIZERS WERE JUST WRONG, I MEAN WITH
THE LIFT, THE NORMAL PITMAN ARM,THE DRAG LINK AT A 50 DEGREE ANGLE, IT
LOOKED LIKE A FIVE YEAR OLD WITH AN ETCH-A-SKETCH DESIGNED IT.
I JUST LOST MY TRANSFER CASE, NO MOW IM STUCK IN 2WD. I CANT EVEN GO
OFF ROAD. I NEED NEW TIRES. MY WINDSHIELD IS BUSTED. MY EXHAUST LEAK IS
GETTING WORSE BUT IM WAITING FOR MY DOUBLE BARREL INTAKE AND HEADERS
BEFORE I YANK IT ALLOUT OF THERE AND PUT MY NEW GASKETS IN THERE.
ASWELL AS A DOUBLE BARREL CARB. THE BOTER IS CLACKING THEN IT STOPS, MY
CLUTCH ROD IS WELDED SO THERE IS NO MORE ROOM FOR ADJUSTMENT, IF I FIND
THE SOB THAT SOLD ME THIS FRANKENSTIEN CONTRAPTION( DONT EVEN MENTION
THE ELECTRICAL OR THE MISMATCHED TAILLIGHTS POOORLY WELDED FLOOR PANS
OR THE WELDED SHUT WINDOW FRAME. THE HARD TOP I JUST TOOK OFF AS WELL
AS THE DOORS BECASUSE THEY DIDNT REALLY KEEP OOUT THE ELEMENTS AND THEY
NEEDED MORE WORK THAN MY JEEP. I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO REALLY ASK,
THIS IS GOOD THERAPY FOR ME TO GET ALL OF THIS OUT,I DONT EXPECT THAT
ANYONE REALLY EVEN READS ALL THIS CRAP, BUT HEY, WHAT THE HELL HAVE I
GOT TO LOSE. THIS JEEP HAS MORE ISSUES THAN JIMMY CARTER HAD PILLS.
DOES ANYONE KNOW IF A DANA 20 WILLMATE TO A T150? AREANY PARTS FROM A
92 CHEROKEE GOOD FOR ANYTHING ON A 76 CJ, INLINE 6 (CANT TELL IF ITS A
232 OR 258-BUT I SAY 258 JUST BECAUSE I FEEL BETTER ABOUT SAYING ITS
BIGGER. MAYBE IM CLOSER THAN I THINK TO GETTING THIS JEEP CLOSE TO
WHERE ITS CONSIDERED DONE. A BRAKE PROB VALVE, A WINDSHIELD AND FRAME,
SOME WELDING, NEW STEERING STABILIZER, REVERSE SHACLE KIT AND NEW
BUSHINGS, A T15 TRANNY AND WIDE TRACK AXLES, INTAKE HEADER AND DOUBLE
BARREL CARB, A PAINTJOB, NEW TIRES AND OR POSSIBLY RIMS,MAYBE JUST
STEAL A DODGE RAM AND TAKE HIS HEMI AND DRIVE TRAIN(JUST A THOUGHT)
DROP IN RUBBER LINER, STEEL HALF DOORS AND A NICE BLACK SOFT TOP, A
STEREO ONCEI HAVE FIXED ALL OF THE NOISES, MAYBE A CENTER CONSOLE, AND
HELL WHILE IM AT IT A BEAUTIFULL WIFE AND A WHITE PICKET FENCE
i LOVE THIS TRUCK BUT ITS BEEN A TREASURE HUNT. I CANT GIVE UP ON IT,
BUT I JUST AM RUNNING OUT OF IDEAS. AND MONEY. AND TIME. ANY HELP WITH
THE SHACLES, I THINK MAYBE MY U BOLTS ARE DONE, THEY WERE SEIZED
SHUTAND FELT LIKE THEY WERE AT THE POINT OF BREAKING. MY DRUMS ARE ALL
NEW, SO THEY DONT REALLY CHATTER, HELL, ONCE I GET THAT PROP VALVE
FIXED IT WILL ACTUALLY STOP FRETTY DAMN GOOD.
I WILL WRITE THE SEQUEL TO THIS NOVELIF ANYONE CARES TO RESPOND OR IS
STILL AWAKE AT THIS POINT,THANKS FOR READING.
DougW - 22 Apr 2005 00:59 GMT
OldARMYJEEP did pass the time by typing at the top of his lungs:
> IN OCTOBER WILL MARK 2 YEARS SINCE I PURCHASED THE JEEP FROM HELL.
....<snip allcaps>

The capslock key is <---- thataway.  On usenet ALLCAPS is considered
yelling and half of us are deaf enough already. ;)

Signature

DougW

Snow - 22 Apr 2005 01:02 GMT
Don't forget the real old guys are 1/2 blind too. :)

Snow...

> OldARMYJEEP did pass the time by typing at the top of his lungs:
>> IN OCTOBER WILL MARK 2 YEARS SINCE I PURCHASED THE JEEP FROM HELL.
> ....<snip allcaps>
>
> The capslock key is <---- thataway.  On usenet ALLCAPS is considered
> yelling and half of us are deaf enough already. ;)
L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III - 22 Apr 2005 01:35 GMT
    It still irritates us. I couldn't read it.
       God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/

> Don't forget the real old guys are 1/2 blind too. :)
>
> Snow...
OldARMYJEEP@gmail.com - 22 Apr 2005 02:13 GMT
CAPS, I GUESS ITS THE WAY I HAVE ALWAYS TYPED. OLD HABITS DIE HARD,
JUST LIKE MY JEEP.

BTW- DO YOU HAVE ANY usefull comments regarding the front end of a cj
jeep? afterall thats what im posting for. sorry for yelling. dont be so
irritated so easily. my appologies for the lack of computer etiquite.
bizbee - 22 Apr 2005 13:14 GMT
On 21 Apr 2005 18:13:35 -0700 in
<1114132415.143522.55900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
OldARMYJEEP@gmail.com graced the world with this thought:

>CAPS, I GUESS ITS THE WAY I HAVE ALWAYS TYPED. OLD HABITS DIE HARD,
>JUST LIKE MY JEEP.

Then you obviously don't use a computer much, because you'd be hearing
this kind of sh.t about your "old habits" every friggin' time you
posted.
No one wants to help someone who can't fulfil a simple request, based
on the fact that they're too f.cking pigheaded. Hit the caps lock key
and try again. Is that going to bust your balls?
SoK66 - 22 Apr 2005 20:27 GMT
Ok, since everyone else has told you about all CAPS, and I couldmn't get to
the end of your tale to look for more pertinent details re: other repairs,
I'll just deal with your main issue per the CJs I've known:

Since you've already replaced the steering box, I'll assume you adjusted it
properly when you installed it. ALll steering boxes like that have a slight
bit of play, but it's fairly negligible. If the box is adjusted right, check
the most obvious issue, see if the steering shaft has excessive play. Even
when new, the steering shaft joints on a CJ are fairly loose due to design
and inherent play in the lower joint (called a "bell joint"). Considering
how you're set up I advise you to toss the stock steerring shaft for either
a Flaming River  or Borgeson shaft, available from 4 Wheel Hardware,
Quadratec,  4 Wheel Parts, etc. About $250.

Next I'd get it on a proper alignment rack and see what the caster is. If
you've installed longer shackles then the front caster will definitely be
off, it should be about 5-7 degrees. With longer shackles it could be near
zero and it'll wander all over the road. You can either toss the long
shackles (my recommendation) in favor of stock length (4") units from
Currie, Mountain Off Road, Rubicon Express, etc., or, install degree shims
between the front axle pads and the springs to compensate. If you do the
latter, DO NOT use aluminum shims, they'll eventually split and spit out.
Steel shims are aailable from most good alignment shops, or from Poison
Spyder Customs.

FWIW, I've been "restoring" a '76 CJ5 since '02. I've replaced or repaired
virtually everything except the gearbox & transfer case; new engine, clutch,
Weber CArb, DUI ignition, rear axle overhaul with one piece shafts, wiring,
gauges, roll bar, fenders, grille/radiator support, windshield frame, glass
& seal, dash panel, top, seats, tires, strip to metal repaint in original
red, all the little
bit-from-hell, you name it. Over $20k later, hey, it's nearly done. Was it
worth it? Of course not if you're talking about money, but it runs & works
like new and the fun never stops. Just remember, thay aren't making CJs any
more, so whatever you have work it a bit at a time and you'll end up with a
classic. Most of 'em are being destroyued a little at a time, either by the
elements or by being chopped into rock crawlers.

> CAPS, I GUESS ITS THE WAY I HAVE ALWAYS TYPED. OLD HABITS DIE HARD,
> JUST LIKE MY JEEP.
>
> BTW- DO YOU HAVE ANY usefull comments regarding the front end of a cj
> jeep? afterall thats what im posting for. sorry for yelling. dont be so
> irritated so easily. my appologies for the lack of computer etiquite.
OldARMYJEEP@gmail.com - 23 Apr 2005 01:21 GMT
THANKS FOR THE SERIOUS REPLY. I installed a heavy duty double U Jointed
steering shaft and my gear box is TIGHT. also the addition of a heavy
duty 1 piece steering brace from Big Daddy Off Road seriously helped
the steering feel. I TOOK OFF THE POS STEERING STABILIZER BECAUSE IT
WAS CAUSING A PROBLEM WITH THE WAY IT WAS INSTALLED.-It felt like it
was jerking my draglink when i hit a bump. It was mounted from the
frame rail and hitting the drag link at some sharp angle so i just
rippid it out of there. I want a paralell mounted stabilizer that
attaches to the axle and the drag link, but thats not the real problem,
i can anticipate the steering when i hit a bump, but then it feels like
my axles are shaking from side to side at  speeds around 35mph. I
either have to power thru the Death wobble with the Gas or slam the
brakes. The caster issue is something I know needs to be addressed, but
my shakles are not that tall and sometimes it actually drives
realtively straight. I would prefer to go no shakles at all. There is
something seriously wrong in this front end and there has to be
something simple im overlooking. maybe i need new u bolts, shakle
reversal kit, new lift springs, steering stabilizer, caster kit, and
newly balanced tires with an alignment. but what would you do first. I
am about to declare bankruptcy.

PS.  "if you dont have any REAL knowlege of cars DONT USE MY CAPS USAGE
AS A REASON TO POST. THIS IS A TECH FORUM NOT ENGLISH LIT 101"
OldARMYJEEP@gmail.com - 22 Apr 2005 02:04 GMT
CAPS OFF TO THE OLD TIMERS. DEFINITELY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN HEAR
ME. ALTHOUGH THEY MIGHT GET A DOSE OF OLD TIMERS DISEASE BY THE TIME
THEY FINISH READING IT........ JUST KIDDING
bizbee - 22 Apr 2005 13:15 GMT
On 21 Apr 2005 18:04:50 -0700 in
<1114131890.125024.221350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
OldARMYJEEP@gmail.com graced the world with this thought:

>CAPS OFF TO THE OLD TIMERS. DEFINITELY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN HEAR
>ME. ALTHOUGH THEY MIGHT GET A DOSE OF OLD TIMERS DISEASE BY THE TIME
>THEY FINISH READING IT........ JUST KIDDING

aaaannnnd.... PLONK
OldARMYJEEP@gmail.com - 22 Apr 2005 02:01 GMT
THE THING OF IT IS THAT IF YOU TURN OFF THE CAPS THE LETTERS GET
SMALLER AND THUS LESS VISIBLE. I HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS THEN A <caps
lock> ISSUE LIKE DOES THIS heavy duty dana 20 transfer case i just won
on ebay mate up to my t-150?
bizbee - 22 Apr 2005 13:11 GMT
On 21 Apr 2005 18:01:10 -0700 in
<1114131670.175484.245740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
OldARMYJEEP@gmail.com graced the world with this thought:

>THE THING OF IT IS THAT IF YOU TURN OFF THE CAPS THE LETTERS GET
>SMALLER AND THUS LESS VISIBLE.

I guess the other fifty million people on usenet are just wrong about
that then, eh?
Good way to try and get some help. I suggest at least attempting to
get along, or no one is going to give a f.ck about what you say, even
if your hair is on fire.
83 CJ - 22 Apr 2005 23:08 GMT
First of welcome to the wonderful world of the CJ.  The "fun" (read
repairs) never stops; but then the FUN (read driving) never stops
either.  An old CJ is a labor of love and requires constant attention.
Remember these things are getting to be 20+ years old and many have
been rode hard and put up wet.

It sounds like you are trying to do every thing at once.  I would
suggest you make a plan and stick to it.  The steerign seems to be the
bigest problem and bizbe gave you some good advice about getting that
fixed.  I would worry about carbs, intakes, transfers etc until you get
the steeereing fixed.  Then pick the next "system" you want to work on;
engine, drivetrain, axels, etc and get that squared away.
 
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