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Car Forum / Jeep / May 2005angle wedge on Rubicon lift
89 YJ installing my lift, have angle wedges (degree spacers) for between the axle and the spring. Which way do they go?? Thick part in front or towards the back??? You want to tilt the pinion up towards the transfer, but there's a limit if you don't have the new driveshafts with constant velocity joints: http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > 89 YJ installing my lift, have angle wedges (degree spacers) for between > the axle and the spring. Which way do they go?? Thick part in front or > towards the back??? > > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com Perfect, thanks bill. I don't have the cv yet, but it's next on the list after tires. Bill, would you stop with the wrong advice please. Without a CV driveshaft, he should NOT tilt the pinion shaft up towards the transfer case, the pinion shaft must be PARALLEL to the t-case output shaft. Only AFTER installing a CV driveshaft, which he is not doing, would your recommendation be correct. L.W.(ßill) Hughes III wrote: > You want to tilt the pinion up towards the transfer, but there's a > limit if you don't have the new driveshafts with constant velocity [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>-- >>Message posted via http://www.carkb.com  SignatureJerry Bransford PP-ASEL N6TAY See the Geezer Jeep at http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ Jerry is correct, in fact you may want to have a small tilt downward so that when the axle rotates under torque load it aligns shafts parallel. Signaturejeff > Bill, would you stop with the wrong advice please. Without a CV > driveshaft, he should NOT tilt the pinion shaft up towards the transfer [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>> the axle and the spring. Which way do they go?? Thick part in front or >>> towards the back??? Geez, Jerry you got to be really stupid not to be able to pull that out of my statement, pulse the site I pointed to. YOur an incredibly irritating mole. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Bill, would you stop with the wrong advice please. Without a CV > driveshaft, he should NOT tilt the pinion shaft up towards the transfer > case, the pinion shaft must be PARALLEL to the t-case output shaft. > Only AFTER installing a CV driveshaft, which he is not doing, would your > recommendation be correct. I did figure it out from bills statement and website. More people kept telling me to tilt it up than keep it level.... But no one knew what type of driveshaft was there. some thought there was a cv stock, which is not true on my jeep. Anyway, I originally hoped someone who had actually installed the kit would have responded but I figured it out by knocking my head on the bumper. The final tally, is that with the new springs, the pinion wanted to tilt up. Therefore, placing the thick part of the wedge in the front of the axle, caused it to tilt more level, like the transfer case. Which is correct given the driveshaft I have. Some advice I received was incorrect, but would be seen as correct if it was an axle over install, but it is not. I do appreciate everyone's in put though. I had done some research prior, but couldn't find the website bill had posted for me before. All is well so far. A couple of minor issues, still can't get the pitman arm off, and the new drag link adapter bar isn't quite lining up like it should. Gonna work on that a bit next weekend. thanks everyone!! Hi Robb, Most like the stock pitman arm, the bump steer is not that bad, and the dropped arm looses some turning radius, unless you use the longer Bronco's. You definitely want to upgrade to the Real Jeep type Slip Yoke: http://7slotgrille.com/tech/sye2/index.html God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > I did figure it out from bills statement and website. > More people kept telling me to tilt it up than keep it level.... But no [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com I am going to Bill, thanks for the web post. It is a work in progress. I think I assembled the components not in the order proposed by rubicon. I am attempting to disassemble the pitman arm last. I am thinking I have excessive stress on the assembly which is already difficult to remove. Also, the drag link comes with a bracket in the kit. I also, did not follow item by item directions. I have the springs tightened up, and the drag link isn't lining up. I will loosen everything and redo next weekend, I'm about an inch off on the drag link lining up. I might try jacking up the passenger side axle side to compensate for a quick re-attachment. I am a mechanic/technician by trade but not automotive. I'm a licencened electrician and do heating and air conditoning. New to the Jeep World, but have common sense and SOME mechanical skills. Bought the jeep for $2000. 80,000 miles. It wouldn't move, so I got a deal, new clutch and WallaAA! Lots of nickle and dime stuff though. Otherwise, my heart was in a real jeep if I hadn't gotten such a good deal thanks BILL To line up the drag link, turn the steering wheel. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > I am going to Bill, thanks for the web post. It is a work in progress. I > think I assembled the components not in the order proposed by rubicon. I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com actually, that doesn't do anything. It's connected to the axle and the frame. Only there to support the axle and keep things lined up. Rubicon advised me that most people do away with the drag link, I mentioned that it's probably because their bracket doesn't work. Anyway off it comes. I'm told that the cj's never had them but didn't ask about the tj's. I'm a learnin... You're talking about the track bar. The drag link connects the pitman arm to the passenger side knuckle and your tie rod. If you remove the drag link you will have no steering. Steve http://xjeep.dyndns.org > actually, that doesn't do anything. It's connected to the axle and the > frame. Only there to support the axle and keep things lined up. Rubicon > advised me that most people do away with the drag link, I mentioned that > it's probably because their bracket doesn't work. Anyway off it comes. > I'm told that the cj's never had them but didn't ask about the tj's. I'm a > learnin... I've been schooled again!!!... your probably right, need to consult my steering component diagram. I'm still curious why RE eliminated the front shims's from their kit. Probably because they were crappy aluminum. That's the only thing I found to be poor quality in their kit. Also, their sway bar disconnects leave a little to be desired, but we'll see. They will probably rust within a month. I've ready so many good things about their springs though, Probably better to have just bought their spring and shackle kit. Do away with all the other stuff that doesn't fit. I'll see if they'll refund because they don't fit. I'll let anyone know how it goes... Robb "probably" with the wedge to the front to bring the pinion up. Most of the lift springs tend to point the pinion down. You want the pinion to be PARALLEL to the trnsfercase shaft. Use a carpenter square on the pinion and another one on the back end of the transfer case to get close to optimum. Have one person hold the two squares in place, have a buddy eyeball from the side. It's really obvious from the side, you can't even tell from underneath. > 89 YJ installing my lift, have angle wedges (degree spacers) for between > the axle and the spring. Which way do they go?? Thick part in front or > towards the back??? But if I put the wedge in the front(thick part forward) wouldn't this cause the pinion to point down? I'm confused now. > But if I put the wedge in the front(thick part forward) wouldn't this > cause > the pinion to point down? only if youve already done an SOA lift. if your springs are under your axle, the thick part in front will raise your pinion. if your springs are over your axle, thick part in the front would lower your pinion. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com You 'really' need to learn how to ask the correct question..... I answered you once already yesterday, I guess you didn't believe me. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > 89 YJ installing my lift, have angle wedges (degree spacers) for between > the axle and the spring. Which way do they go?? Thick part in front or > towards the back??? > > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com sorry mike, I'll go look for it. I did make a posting but didn't see where it was posted, so I posted again.... I think it's my computer is slow. I answered bill twice yesterday..... That happens, but having 3 or 4 threads going on about the same thing can be bad news. Folks are giving you bad advice because they don't know what you are asking or have figured out in one of the other threads. Your front driveshaft already has a CV or 'double cardan' joint so the diff is supposed to point straight at it with the weight of the Jeep on the springs but depending on how high you are, this can really wreck the front end alignment so you need a compromise. I think the wedges are to line up the steering, not the driveshaft now that you posted about longer shackles I 'think' I saw in one of the threads??? Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > sorry mike, I'll go look for it. I did make a posting but didn't see where > it was posted, so I posted again.... > I think it's my computer is slow. I answered bill twice yesterday..... > > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com well, the kit comes with longer shackles. I see from your advice and bills I need to point the pinion up because I have a cv in the front. The Shims are aluminum, and someone else had a good point to go to steel, and the caster thing too. I think I will install it one way, set her down and see where I am at. get her as close as I can, Then take it from there. It is a build in progress, and haven't done the slip yoke yet, so I may just take it down to the local 4X4 shop/alignment, and have them get it perfect for me..... I think I have a headache now...;) This confusion stems from Rubicon;s poor installation instructions, which are not clear at all on several points. 1) The Springs mount with the military wrap ends on the spring hangers, 2) the second set of shims are installed on the front end to restore caster lost to the kit's longer shackles. As I mentioned in an earlier response, for safety's sake Robb should get some steel shims for the front at least. > well, the kit comes with longer shackles. I see from your advice and > bills [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > it down to the local 4X4 shop/alignment, and have them get it perfect for > me..... I think I have a headache now...;) Ditto. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > That happens, but having 3 or 4 threads going on about the same thing > can be bad news. Folks are giving you bad advice because they don't > know what you are asking or have figured out in one of the other > threads. > Your front driveshaft already has a CV or 'double cardan' joint so the > diff is supposed to point straight at it with the weight of the Jeep on > the springs.< He has a YJ, which doesn;t have a double cardan up front unless he's added one. The angle wedges he's refering to come with the Rubicon 4.5" Extreme Duty kit and are to compensate for the kits' 1" longer shackles. There's another set included in the kit, to be used out back. > > Your front driveshaft already has a CV or 'double cardan' joint so the > > diff is supposed to point straight at it with the weight of the Jeep on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Duty kit and are to compensate for the kits' 1" longer shackles. There's > another set included in the kit, to be used out back. Really? I thought the YJ was the same XJ that has a double cardan up front. I realized after by reading another of his threads that he has longer shackles and needs wedges for that abortion. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Just your XJ, and all GM, and Ford products: http://www.billhughes.com/CVCherokee.pdf And of course Real Jeeps. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com > Really? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's RE is advising me that the 4 degree wedges they supplied go to the rear and not the front. No wedges for the front. They have really crapped things up with their instructions. The shackles are only 1" longer in the front. Not much to worry there with all the other inches of travel in the lift. You are going to get introduced really fast to the 'Death Wobble'. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > RE is advising me that the 4 degree wedges they supplied go to the rear and > not the front. No wedges for the front. They have really crapped things [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com interesting about the wedges in the rear, rubicon didn't supply any wedges for the rear. The instructions were very poor in that area. Alls they stated were, here are the shimms, use them or not, make sure the pin doesn't hit the axle if you don't use them. Oh well. > interesting about the wedges in the rear, rubicon didn't supply any wedges > for the rear. The instructions were very poor in that area. Alls they > stated were, here are the shimms, use them or not, make sure the pin > doesn't hit the axle if you don't use them. Oh well. My RE 4.5" YJ kit came with two sets of 2.5 degree wedges. What Rubicon sent to pass for instructions didn't mention either set, but it was fairly clear that the longer shackles would require a caster correction up front, and the amount of lift would require rear pinion shims and a transfer case drop. (I have an Atlas II so the SYE kit requirement was not applicable.) Since I had previously replaced the stock YJ axles with a Dynatrac D44/D60 combination, we cut the rear spring perches loose and dialed in the pinion without the xfer case drop or shims. Up front we measured the caster and found it to be at 4 degrees, so we added 2 degree steel shims rather than cut the perches loose & re-welding. To get rid of any front driveshaft issues we instaled a Hi Angle Driveline CV shaft. The degree shims fixed the caster, the CV driveshaft fixed the vibration and added a lot of beef. FWIW, I long ago tossed the track bars front & rear, and the sway bar, so we never installed any of the associated Rubicon brackets, links, etc. after speaking with rubicon about being sent only 1 set of 4 degree shims, they tell me they are for the rear and not the front. They did away with the front because everyone just goes and get a cv driveshaft. What to do until then, who knows...LOL anyway, their suggestion is to do away with the drag link all together... The longer front shackle will tip your front pinion up, which will reduce your caster. If you find that steering is touchy and the Jeep wanders all over the road, you may need shims to bring the pinion back down. RE should have said you can do away with the track bar, not the drag link. Steve http://xjeep.dyndns.org > after speaking with rubicon about being sent only 1 set of 4 degree shims, > they tell me they are for the rear and not the front. They did away with > the front because everyone just goes and get a cv driveshaft. What to do > until then, who knows...LOL anyway, their suggestion is to do away with > the drag link all together... track bar, not drag link. My bad Let's do us ALL a favor and end this thread.... all is well so far, thanks for all the help ROBB If we do you are going to be in big trouble..... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > Let's do us ALL a favor and end this thread.... > all is well so far, thanks for all the help > ROBB > > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com You are not making sense.... No drag link, no steering. No shims up front with longer shackles means you cannot drive faster than 30 mph and still be able to steer. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > after speaking with rubicon about being sent only 1 set of 4 degree shims, > they tell me they are for the rear and not the front. They did away with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com I recently installed the RE 4 inch standard lift kit..it comes with a 4 degree shim as well....i have puchased more shim..its now shimmed to 8 degrees and still have a vibration at 70 kph..... > You are not making sense.... > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> -- >> Message posted via http://www.carkb.com |
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