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Car Forum / Jeep / June 2005Bad Engine?
All, I'm looking for some advice on this. First, some history: In December 2002, I bought and installed a remanufactured engine from PowerPro Performance (the company with the long warranty) out of Missouri. That engine had bad rings in #6 cylinder so it went back. I installed the second engine, and made a bad claim due to the Mopar MPI + Clifford valve combo (fixed thanks to Hesco) and sent it back. They shipped me a third engine before I had analyzed the problem properly. I installed the third engine in March of 2003, but it's been using about 3-4 quarts of oil between changes since I installed it. The compression test passed (at least 160 on every cylinder) and mileage was acceptable (upper teens), although I got better with a carb. It also seemed to run OK. Not wanting to make another bad claim, I've been checking out everything else, but to no avail. Finally, I took it to the Jeep dealership to run a leakdown test: cylinder #4 has 33% leakdown (fail), and four others are at about 22% (marginal). So I sent the third engine back. It had been in my Jeep for about 15,000 miles. PowerPro Performance's analysis of the problem was that my fuel mixture was so bad that the fuel washed away the cylinder walls. I talked to Hesco about this analysis, and they said that PowerPro's analysis didn't sound right. In order for this problem to occur, I'd be getting about two miles gallon, spewing black smoke, and choking on gas fumes. None of this was true. Also, my catalytic converter is only about two years old, so I don't think that could contribute to this problem. Any opinion on either Hesco's or PowerPro's analysis? Preliminarily (I'm supposed to hear from PowerPro again tomorrow), PowerPro says they'll either ship back the bad engine (at my cost) or keep it as a core. Neither option sounds good to me. Anyone else think of any other options? Thanks.  SignatureMichael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer P.S. I'm not buying anything like this on-line again. I think you may have messed up breaking your engine in, like the first fifty miles are critical to break in the rings, forcing a dry wall condition to burn in them in by lugging the engine in top gear and hard accelerating from about thirty to sixty over and over and over: http://performanceunlimited.com/documents/enginebreakin.html God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > All, > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > P.S. I'm not buying anything like this on-line again. Bill, I followed their break-in procedure which, although not identical to the ones on the web page you listed (e.g. accelerate to 55 MPH rather than 50 MPH, repeat 10 times rather than several times, etc...), are probably close enough. Besides, their engine, their break-in procedure. And even if I didn't, I don't understand how this could cause damage to the cylinder walls. Thanks. SignatureMichael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer L.W.(ßill) Hughes III (billhughes@cox.net) wrote on Wednesday 22 June 2005 11:41 pm: > I think you may have messed up breaking your engine in, like the > first fifty miles are critical to break in the rings, forcing a dry wall [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> >> P.S. I'm not buying anything like this on-line again. This doesn't help, but three engines gone bad? Some folks might take that as a sign to get a different vehicle.... > >> In December 2002, I bought and installed a remanufactured engine from > >> PowerPro Performance (the company with the long warranty) out of [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >> Neither > >> option sounds good to me. Anyone else think of any other options? If the rings are not staggered you can pump a lot of oil out but you are also producing a smoke screen behind you. I think I would be on the phone to find out why you received three bad engines. Anything mass produced will occasionally produce a defective product. Three in a row implies something different. What reasoning (excuse) are they offering? > This doesn't help, but three engines gone bad? Some folks might take that > as a sign to get a different vehicle.... [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >> >> Neither >> >> option sounds good to me. Anyone else think of any other options? As I remember from 1978, the Chrysler Corp. engines with this problem were not producing smoke screens. Up to some limit, oil will burn clean. The warranty fix to the problem, by the way, was to take out the pistons, stagger the rings, and put them back. No new rings, no honing of cylinder walls. I had a heck of a time talking the parts counter out of new head gaskets, because it wasn't listed on the warranty repair bulletin as a necessary part! I saw another case where a private mechanic put all the rings in a Volvo B18 engine upside down. It pumped a lot of oil, but did not noticeably smoke. He didn't get three bad engines. The second was supposedly OK, but he put in a bad claim. I am skeptical of the "not broken in" theory, since he claims that the third engine pumped oil since new. I would look for something installed incorrectly, but since PowerPro Performance now has the engine how to prove this? Mike, what make and model engine is it? Earle > If the rings are not staggered you can pump a lot of oil out but you are > also producing a smoke screen behind you. I think I would be on the phone [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > >> >> Neither > >> >> option sounds good to me. Anyone else think of any other options? Earle, It's the AMC 258 (4.2 L) 6 cylinder. They still haven't gotten back to me yet, with the guy I'm working with saying he needs to confirm or check something (he wasn't real clear). I'm supposed to hear from him on Monday. BTW, the web site for this company is http://www.powerpro2000.com/long_block_engines.htm SignatureMichael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer Earle Horton (earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com) wrote on Friday 24 June 2005 08:40 am: > As I remember from 1978, the Chrysler Corp. engines with this problem were > not producing smoke screens. Up to some limit, oil will burn clean. The [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] >> >> >> Neither >> >> >> option sounds good to me. Anyone else think of any other options? Keep your fingers crossed. Maybe they will find something wrong with your third engine. Earle > Earle, > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > >> >> >> Neither > >> >> >> option sounds good to me. Anyone else think of any other options? Like if you don't break the glaze with a hone when just ringing an engine, to force your rings to break in, then they never will, riding just off the surface, in the areas that are not perfectly round. And I did it for a full fifty miles, first lugging the engine, then full throttle over and over and over again to make sure. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to > fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer > Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > And even if I didn't, I don't understand how this could cause damage to the > cylinder walls. Are you spinning the oil pump with a drill? This seems to be a good thing to do... I've only put in a V8 longblock Chevy before, but this was recommended, so I took copper pipe and flattened one end... chucked it up and spun the oil pump with the distributor out. This was enough to get the pump primed.... is there no procedure like that required? First startup is a critical time! __ Steve . I just had my 258 changed last month and yes they had to use drill for oil pump. > Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the > cylinder walls. Are you spinning the oil pump with a drill? This seems to be a good thing to do... I've only put in a V8 longblock Chevy before, but this was recommended, so I took copper pipe and flattened one end... chucked it up and spun the oil pump with the distributor out. This was enough to get the pump primed.... is there no procedure like that required? First startup is a critical time! __ Steve . Stephen Cowell (scowell@sbcglobal.net) wrote on Friday 24 June 2005 11:50 pm: >> Bill, >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Steve > . Steve, Yes, I use a drill to turn the oil pump, usually twice - once when the engine is out and I'm testing for leaks, and the second just before I drop the distributor in less than an hour before initial start-up. I distinctly remember last time because I forgot that I had taken the plug out of the oil pressure sending unit hole and it sprayed oil all over the garage wall. At least I knew I'd get good pressure :). Thanks. SignatureMichael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer The description of engine number three reminds me of what happened with a run of Chrysler Corporation engines in 1978. Good compression, poor oil mileage, somebody forgot to stagger the ring gaps. Earle > All, > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Thanks. |
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