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Car Forum / Jeep / March 2006E-10 Gasoline The New Standard April 1st
Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10 (10% ethanol) which replaces the current MTBE additive. Pat discussed the new stuff at length and basically stated it will be fine even for older autos. He said that in older autos the ethanol is a super cleaner and will break lose all kinds of stuff in the fuel system. He said if you notice your auto running really crapy just change the fuel filter. Coasty Coasty did pass the time by typing: > Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was > listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Coasty Nice date they chose..... :)  SignatureDougW Yeah, I think it might be an april fools thing... > Coasty did pass the time by typing: >> Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Nice date they chose..... :) > Yeah, I think it might be an april fools thing... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >> Nice date they chose..... :) I've been hearing some ramblings for over a month here. The only date I had heard previously was sometime in April. The folks just S. of me in Houston have been gearing up for a while I was told. I was also told it was one of those "under the cover of darkness" issues so as not to get too much attention and resistance before it was in the marketplace. As usual, it could all change with the wind, and it's blowing hard today. Hippie... As I had heard April 1st is official, but like anything else the Feds do it is on the sly. Coasty >> Yeah, I think it might be an april fools thing... >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > it could all change with the wind, and it's blowing hard today. > Hippie... Those same Bleeding Heart Liberal wacko limp weenies mandated the MTBE additive that poisoned Kalifornia's water: http://sd.water.usgs.gov/nawqa/pubs/factsheet/fs114.95/fact.html God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Nice date they chose..... :) > > -- > DougW > Coasty did pass the time by typing: >> Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Nice date they chose..... :) Quite fitting anything having to do with the Fed's all fools no April involved. Coasty What is E-10? Is that the low smog crap we run in the winters on the wet coast? >>Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was >>listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >>Coasty > Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was > listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10 > (10% ethanol) which replaces the current MTBE additive. Hopefully it is a joke, or at least the 93 octane stuff won't contain it... I use the 93 octane stuff in my aircraft and I can't use any fuel with alcohol in it... Sorry no joke all grades of gas will be E-10 the MTBE additive is gonzo. Coasty >> Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was >> listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I use the 93 octane stuff in my aircraft and I can't use any fuel with > alcohol in it... No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in fuel in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years. It is total bullshit about the older engines. The crap eats gas lines, the carb float needles go bad and I lose over 25% in mileage and have no power over 60 mph when I run alcohol mix. Even my owners manual states 'not' to use the junk. I mean I go from over 350 miles per tank of gas down to 250 miles at best with alcohol mix. Great stuff, it is more expensive and we use Way more of it when mixed. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was > listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Coasty Half the gas stations around here in Michigan already have it anyway. > No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in fuel > in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> >> Coasty : No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in fuel : in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] : : Great stuff, it is more expensive and we use Way more of it when mixed. WOW - that's really bad mike. I just wonder...... My Liberty has gotten worse and worse mileage over the last month. Maybe the station switched while I wasn't looking. Kate, check the pump next time you fill up you should see an E-10 on it or ask them. Coasty > : No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in fuel > : in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the > station switched while I wasn't looking. You bet I will. Wow, that's really a bum deal. Thanks for the heads up Coasty! Kate : Kate, check the pump next time you fill up you should see an E-10 on it or : ask them. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] : > the : > station switched while I wasn't looking. E-5, not E-10. See: <URL:http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/infores/releases/2005/100507.html> > No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in fuel > in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >>Coasty That means I guess one next project will to put an engine in that can burn the crap so I can keep my power level up. A V8 that burns the crap might give me as much power as I have now with my 258 on 'real' gas eh. Maybe the same 'gas' mileage too seeing as my old Chevy 350 got 18 mpg or so and that crap mix drops my 258's mileage 'way' down. Mike > E-5, not E-10. See: > <URL:http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/infores/releases/2005/100507.html> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >> > >>Coasty In the Midwest US we have had 10% ethanol most brands of gasoline for ... 15-20 years. Marathon based in Findley Ohio was that last one that used to advertise they sold "100% gasoline" but I do not recall seeing those signs for a long time so I will assume that it is gasohol also. Back when it first was being introduced there was controversy just like we are having here about drivability and deterioration of rubber parts. The aftermarket auto parts companies were quick to jump in with 'new and improved' components that were gasohol safe and I'm assuming that all 'modernly' produced fuel system parts are fully compatible. There was a time when all the vehicle engines ran poorly... well... longer than a time as it was 10-15 years but I think most of that can be attributed to the manufacturers adopting the least expensive way to meet environmental regulations rather than using a more efficient but also more expensive option. > That means I guess one next project will to put an engine in that can > burn the crap so I can keep my power level up. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> >> >> >>Coasty Here in MI if they sell 10% ethanol they are required to put a notice sticker on the pump. Speedway & Clark come to mind. I normally gas up at national-chain stations, or at the local Meijer station; they usually have the best price on gas. Believe it or not, Mobil in Livonia has the best prices on diesel down here; when traveling, we buy fuel at Flying J stations, they seem to have the best prices within a couple hour's drive. > In the Midwest US we have had 10% ethanol most brands of gasoline for ... > 15-20 years. Marathon based in Findley Ohio was that last one that used [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >>> >> >>> >>Coasty What are the emissions laws like where you live? Where I live you could get away with any type of engine transplant, but where Bill lives probably not. Maybe, a 4.0 would be less trouble all around than a V8. Earle > That means I guess one next project will to put an engine in that can > burn the crap so I can keep my power level up. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > E-5, not E-10. See: <URL:http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/infores/releases/2005/100507.html> > > > No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in fuel > > > in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > >> > > >>Coasty I am in Canada and am now exempt from emissions because of age. I think I would have had to pass either the year of the engine or the vehicle year's test, but we have a 'hot rod' class that covers that. The new rules might say the engine has to be an 86 or newer, but.... Like my CJ7 as a utility vehicle, did not come with a cat converter so I didn't need it. I also dumped the computer out, but left the important things like the air filter flapper, egr and pcv systems working. My last emissions test was using 91 octane esso gas, and the above setup with no emissions computer or cat converter and I got on the ASM 2525 test, 589 NOx, 16 ppm HC, and 0.11% CO. Not too shabby.... I do like 350's..... Mike > What are the emissions laws like where you live? Where I live you could get > away with any type of engine transplant, but where Bill lives probably not. [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** > *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** >It is total bullshit about the older engines. I agree. Seals in newer fuel systems are designed for ethanol, but anything 10 years or older will have major problems. And people need to be informed about it, because problems WILL happen. Mixing alcohol does lower emissions, IMO, primarily because it lowers combustion temps. It's like throwing a wet blanket on a roaring fire. Sadly, it also lowers fuel mileage, saturates the fuel and exhaust system in excess moisture and it costs more. I'm glad to see MTBE go away, but something else could have been developed. Corn farmers and new car sellers will be smiling broadly. We've been using this stuff for a year or two out here in CA, and you're right: the engine doens' t run very well on it. Used to be 5% was the max, now it's 10%. I'm sure it will eventually go even higher, to the point where golf carts will be passing is on the freeway. I wish there was some way to address the real problem instead: too damn many cars. -JD > I wish there was some way to address the real problem instead: too damn > many cars. Not exactly correct... To many drivers... Think about it carefully... There's a difference... I have 3 cars, an airplane, a boat, an ATV, and a motorcycle... All for only 2 drivers... For the most part, only one of those ever gets used at a time... Reducing my cars would not reduce the air polution that I generate, I would just drive one of the other vehicles more often... Reducing the number of drivers would have a direct effect on the air polution generated... Of course arguments could be made on whether the reductions are worthwhile considering the amount of air polution that is generated from other sources (some "natural" like the recent fires in the Oklahoma and Texas panhandles)... >Not exactly correct... To many drivers Well, perhaps I should have clarified: too many cars with a single occupant. Some logically consider this to be 'too many drivers', as you have. I see it from the a.s-end of the logic chain: cut the number of cars in half and you eliminate the 'too many drivers' problem altogether. We both know what the problem is and we're both right; we're just seeing it from differing perspectives. I see this from a trucker's point of view. There are just too damn many cars on the road that don't need to be there. Everyone and their DOG drives (not owns!) a car these days, and we're not doing ourselves any favors by driving somewhere alone anymore. Worse, city planners are more concerned with tax revenue than with traffic problems, so they're all in favor of packing 'em in like sardines. Bah. My solution? Move to the suburbs - to hell with big-city-revenue mentality. It's worked pretty well so far. I'm long-since tired of the smog, crime and noise anyway. The rats won the race a long time ago. We just shuffle sh.t around every 4 years is all; this country was bought and paid for a LONG time ago, and ain't nothin' gonna change! Okay, time to take my meds... Far too many trucks on the road. That's why I haul'em aboard a train! Ed > >Not exactly correct... To many drivers > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > are more concerned with tax revenue than with traffic problems, so > they're all in favor of packing 'em in like sardines. >>Not exactly correct... To many drivers > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > altogether. We both know what the problem is and we're both right; > we're just seeing it from differing perspectives. Or, as seems barely likely to happen, raise the cost of driving to the point where not everyone can afford to drive alone. Bird flu might have the desired driver-reduction effect, if the doomsayers are correct. Neither of us, of course, wishes to be part of the "no longer driving or breathing" group. > I see this from a trucker's point of view. There are just too damn > many cars on the road that don't need to be there. Everyone and their And, of course, the cage drivers see it as too damned many trucks on the road hauling cargo that should be in intermodal containers on a train. It all depends on what irritates you. > DOG drives (not owns!) a car these days, and we're not doing ourselves > any favors by driving somewhere alone anymore. Worse, city planners > are more concerned with tax revenue than with traffic problems, so > they're all in favor of packing 'em in like sardines. Well, there's also that pesky notion that property owners have some sort of right to do pretty much whatever they want to turn the maximum buck (again, it all depends on what irritates you). Extravagant lot size minimums and setbacks simply spread the sprawl out and makes for more curb cuts, it doesn't reduce it. It also tend to fall before court challenges that it constitute "checkbook zoning" and unfairly deny less than median income people ownership. Since your local governmental unit posts a revenue loss on every median-income family with children that come to the area, more development is necessary to cover the increased cost of services (schools, parks, police, etc.). `Round and `round it goes. > Bah. My solution? Move to the suburbs - to hell with big-city-revenue > mentality. It's worked pretty well so far. I'm long-since tired of > the smog, crime and noise anyway. The rats won the race a long time That pattern is well documented, though. Families flee congestion for peace and quiet. Along with them comes strip malls, big box stores, noise, congestion, polution, hooligans and crime. Lather, rinse, repeat. If people would stop sleeping next to their livestock these diseases wouldn't spread to humans. > Bird flu might have the desired driver-reduction effect, if the doomsayers > are correct. Neither of us, of course, wishes to be part of the "no > longer driving or breathing" group. "A bear, a lion and a chicken are talking. "When I roar" said the bear, "the forest rumbles." The lion sniffed. "When *I* roar, the jungle trembles", he said. "Oh." Said the chicken. The lion and bear looked at her, thinking about dinner. The chicken smiled a small, knowing smile, and said "When I cough, the whole world sh.ts itself." [Written by Helen Armfield, Hastings, UK] LOL God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > "A bear, a lion and a chicken are talking. "When I roar" said the bear, "the > forest rumbles." [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > [Written by Helen Armfield, Hastings, UK] Pretty funny joke. I likes it. The thing about the term "bird flu" is that waterfowl are the world's reservoir of influenza, if you've got the flu it originally came from a bird /anyway/. For the most part they can't make the leap from fowl to human, but put a swine into the transmission chain and the flu has a better chance of jumping from bird to pig, stewing and morphing for a bit and then making the leap from pig to man. If Asia could feed her population without penning swine and fowl together we'd see a lot less influenza. Historical tidbit: The US military lost more men to influenza during WWI than to battlefield injury. > If people would stop sleeping next to their livestock these diseases > wouldn't spread to humans. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > [Written by Helen Armfield, Hastings, UK] The bird flu has made the jump to human, just not human to human.... Yet. 1918: http://virus.stanford.edu/uda/ God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Pretty funny joke. I likes it. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Historical tidbit: The US military lost more men to influenza during WWI > than to battlefield injury. > Well, perhaps I should have clarified: too many cars with a single > occupant. Although putting multiple people in the vehicles is great for commuting, for the other uses of a car, it doesn't help much... Personally, I try to use the appropriate vehicle for the job... If I need to go up to Home Depot for some bulky stuff, I'll take my truck... It's not like I'm going to put 1000 lbs of bagged concrete in either of my Jeeps... If it's just for a small item, I'll grab a backpack and ride my motorcycle... > I see it from the a.s-end of the logic chain: cut the number > of cars in half and you eliminate the 'too many drivers' problem > altogether. We both know what the problem is and we're both right; > we're just seeing it from differing perspectives. I'm just not sure how much of a difference cutting the total number of cars in half would really do... Most people that I know have at least 2 cars, but they're not driven at the same time... > I see this from a trucker's point of view. There are just too damn > many cars on the road that don't need to be there. Everyone and their > DOG drives (not owns!) a car these days, and we're not doing ourselves > any favors by driving somewhere alone anymore. Living in the Houston area and having the priviledge of experiencing the 12 lane parking lots that we call expressways, I also wish there were less vehicles on the roads, but I don't see a real solution to it... People want the convenience of going where they want to go, when they want to do it... Public transportation seldom gives them that convenience... I would like to see more of the single occupant vehicles switch to motorcycles, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen... Bikes are great when the weather is nice, but suck when it rains... Hell, even on dry days when it's 100F, they're not all that great... I've gotten used to my air-conditioning and when the weather gets around 98F with 95% humidity, the bike doesn't get used that often... What I would like to see is some sort of enclosed single occupant (or perhaps double occupant riding in tandem) vehicle based on an ATV, but it would also have an air-conditioner... It would be small enough that it could park straight in on parallel parking spots and as such, you could fit 5 of them in the space of a normal 20 ft car... They would need to be fast enough to handle the cases when traffic gets up to normal highway speeds... This might be an issue since the shorter wheelbase vehicles can be a bit twitchy at higher speeds... Squeezing an air-conditioner in this small of a package might be difficult though... I think it could be done though... If nothing else, you could create a seperate small engine that directly powered the air-conditioning equipment and install it behind the driver... Kind of like an APU driven air-conditioner, I guess... Hell, as long as I'm spouting off about nice-to-haves, here's one... I want a cruise control in my car that is voice activated... I want to be able to say something like, "SPEED xx" and it adjust the speed appropriately for that value... I think it would be great for driving through towns where the speed limits change quite a bit (usually in an attempt by the local government to increase their revenue)... It would also be great for when you got distracted and forgot what the previous speed limit sign might have said... Every time you see a speed limit sign, you just tell the controller what to set itself to... And for those of us who consistantly add a few mphs to the posted limits, you should be able to say whatever values you want, not just ones divisible by 5... I hereby claim copywrite on this idea ask to be acknowledged in any subsequent implementation... This is a start http://earlehorton.tripod.com/smart/smartcar.jpg Earle > > Well, perhaps I should have clarified: too many cars with a single > > occupant. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > not just ones divisible by 5... I hereby claim copywrite on this idea ask to > be acknowledged in any subsequent implementation... > This is a start > > http://earlehorton.tripod.com/smart/smartcar.jpg I've seen photos of that type before... Best I remember, they are side-by-side seating and I don't remember them having air-conditioning either... I don't think they were short enough to park crossways in a parallel parking spot... Even a larger ATV like the 700cc class Honda FourTrax Rincon is less than 7 ft long and less than 4 ft wide... Assuming that you are parking with the front tires against the curb, it would stick out from the curb even less than 7 ft... That's within the width of many cars... Hell, my truck is wider than that ATV is long... At a width of less than 47 inches for this model, it's not unreasonable to assume that 5 ft would be sufficient for parking... Hell, I saw scooters and ATVs parked a lot closer than that in Cozumel... Of course, an ATV based vehicle is not as efficient as a motorcycle from a space standpoint, but some people just aren't competent to operate 2-wheeled vehciles... There were ATV based vehicles on the street too. Too bad I didn't get a picture. There is a motor scooter, with an engine like a racing chain saw, and capable of highway speeds. I tried to rent an Opel Corsa or similar vehicle, for the "authentic European" experience, but apparently Avis doesn't have anything smaller than a Renault Megane or VW Golf. I guess if you're rich enough to rent a car, you're considered rich enough to rent a real car. Check out the motor home in the background. People are paying twice what we are for fuel, and they can still afford motor homes. Earle > > This is a start > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > efficient as a motorcycle from a space standpoint, but some people just > aren't competent to operate 2-wheeled vehciles... > There were ATV based vehicles on the street too. I looked up the SmartCar on the web... Found the specs for it... 98.5" (8' 2.5") long... A bit too long to park crosswise in a normal parking spot, but you might be able to get away with it in a lot of places considering how bad some people are at pulling their cars all the way next to the curb when parallel parking... Their brochure even shows a car parked this way... 59.7" wide, so a bit wider than an ATV and you probably couldn't squeeze as many into a normal parking space... Still, you could probably get 3 of them in there with room for the doors to open... I didn't see anything about an air-conditioner being in the units, so that would be a definite problem for much of the US market... Sold here in Canada - I'm waiting to see a pinball game on the freeway with them. The are supposed to be extremely safe - complete roll cage - small diesel engine and a/c Take a look at http://www.thesmart.ca Bill >> There were ATV based vehicles on the street too. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > for > much of the US market... When I was in Germany a few years ago I saw these all over the place and fell in love with them. Just look at their face even! I did see them parked head-in in parallel parking situations in many locations. Tomes >> There were ATV based vehicles on the street too. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > for > much of the US market... > When I was in Germany a few years ago I saw these all over the place and > fell in love with them. Just look at their face even! I did see them > parked head-in in parallel parking situations in many locations. An interesting little vehicle... Put an air-conditioner in them and *might* have a chance in the US, but I suspect that they would need the label of one of the major automobile manufactuers before they gained acceptance... Pricewise, they're not really a bargin compared to some of the other small cars... Their fuel economy is only slightly less than the most efficient normal vehicles out there, so their main marketing point might be their ease of parking since you don't necessarily have to parallel park one of them... Putting a third person in one doesn't really look possible... I had a 1989 RX-7 which although a 2-seater, you could put a third person in the hatchback area if you folded them up right... About the only thing you could carry in one of the SmartCars might be a couple bags of groceries... Still, it would be interesting to see a vehicle smaller than the Mini Cooper (8'2.5" vs 11'10")... Have you forgotten BMW's attempt to enter the American market in the mid fifties: http://www.vintagemotorssarasota.com/Car_pages/BMW/57bmw_isetta/57bmw1.jpg God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > An interesting little vehicle... Put an air-conditioner in them and *might* > have a chance in the US, but I suspect that they would need the label of one [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > it would be interesting to see a vehicle smaller than the Mini Cooper > (8'2.5" vs 11'10")... If fuel gets high enough you will buy anything, even a bicycle. Did you see South Park last night? Kyle's father buys a "Pious" hybrid, moves to San Francisco to get away from wasteful gas guzzling SUV owners. People in San Francisco are so smug, even their own farts smell good to them. Stan misses Kyle, writes a lame sixties style song about saving the environment by driving hybrid cars, remorse drives all South Parkians to trade in their SUVs on gas saving hybrids. The resulting cloud of "Smug" creates a gigantic storm. Double remorse drives the South Parkians to crush all their hybrids and go back to their former ways. San Francisco disappears off the face of the Earth. If only. Earle > Have you forgotten BMW's attempt to enter the American market in > the mid fifties: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > it would be interesting to see a vehicle smaller than the Mini Cooper > > (8'2.5" vs 11'10")... People that buy a hybrid are stupid, and they waste my tax payers moneys in subsidies: http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/06/Autos/tipsandadvice/hybrid_resale/index.htm God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > If fuel gets high enough you will buy anything, even a bicycle. Did you see > South Park last night? Kyle's father buys a "Pious" hybrid, moves to San [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Earle I agree fully. My gasoline powered Civic gets 45 mpg, and is capable of 95 mph, according to the Nevada State Patrol. I laughed my a.s off when I got the ticket in the mail, because the driver, was the last of my children, that I would have expected, to commit such a shocking act of civil disobedience. I am told too, that the Civic should last 200,000 miles with minimal maintenance. The real point, that the South Park episode seemed to make, is that people who buy hybrids are so smug, that they are a danger to the planet. This makes sense. Earle > People that buy a hybrid are stupid, and they waste my tax payers > moneys in subsidies: http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/06/Autos/tipsandadvice/hybrid_resale/index.htm > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O > mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > > Earle Why not have real hybrids. Have a lawn mower engine turning a generator and use electric motors to drive all 4 wheels. It works great for diesel electric locomotives and an electric motor has its greatest torque when it is just starting to run. Probably costs more than what they are doing now.... <sigh> > People that buy a hybrid are stupid, and they waste my tax payers > moneys in subsidies: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> Earle Every time we convert energy, we lose some in the transfer. Prius owners realizing that they've been made a fool of, are trying to add batteries and sneak a little AC electric: http://www.hybridcars.com/blogs/power/prius-makeover-at-maker-faire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid_electric_vehicle God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Why not have real hybrids. Have a lawn mower engine turning a generator and > use electric motors to drive all 4 wheels. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Probably costs more than what they are doing now.... <sigh> I saw something nearly identical to this the other day. Pretty nifty for running around town! Only two problems with anyone actually buying one of these: gas is still too cheap, and everyone would be (justifiably) afraid of SUV-driving morons flattening them. Almost bought a GEM a few years ago; Costco even sold them. I only needed a runabout for 3-mi. daily commutes, and I don't need A/C and a big stereo; just didn't have the $ at the time. These are fun too. http://www.aixam.net/ Earle > I saw something nearly identical to this the other day. Pretty nifty > for running around town! Only two problems with anyone actually [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > runabout for 3-mi. daily commutes, and I don't need A/C and a big > stereo; just didn't have the $ at the time. My bro-n-law, that has his own fleet of diesels, told me that the diesel mixture ill be changing also resulting in about 60 cent increase. > Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was > listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Coasty Signatureo_o_o_o /| ,[_____], |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O- ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_) I still say it's an april fools gag. (although not out of the range of government stupidity) Found some state madates http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/03/state_ethanol_m.html Going E-10 increases NOx http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/possible-bad-press-for-e10-e85.6392.html Interesting read. http://www.rppi.org/315polsum.pdf MTBE is bad stuff and getting rid of it is a good thing. But I'm not convinced alcohol and increased NOx is the answer. SignatureDougW Is that the same nitrous oxide I get at the dentist? If so, we won't care. ;^) Earle > I still say it's an april fools gag. > (although not out of the range of government stupidity) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Going E-10 increases NOx http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/possible-bad-press-for-e10-e85.6392.html > Interesting read. > http://www.rppi.org/315polsum.pdf > > MTBE is bad stuff and getting rid of it is a good thing. But I'm not > convinced alcohol and increased NOx is the answer. The mandates are wrong Maryland where I live will be April 1st along with many other states since the Feds no longer allow the use of MTBEs in fuel. Coasty >I still say it's an april fools gag. > (although not out of the range of government stupidity) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > MTBE is bad stuff and getting rid of it is a good thing. But I'm not > convinced alcohol and increased NOx is the answer. Surprise, surprise, you're going to bio corn whether you like it or not, for about a ten percent decrease in mileage. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > My bro-n-law, that has his own fleet of diesels, told me that the diesel > mixture ill be changing also resulting in about 60 cent increase. Arco out here in Kalifornia has been running ten percent alcohol for over twenty years. Alcohol destroys neoprene, which was used on all carburetor needle seats. Of course all the new carburetor kits went back to the old leaky steel seats. God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was > listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Coasty No way, I am still getting the neoprene needle seats... Mike > Arco out here in Kalifornia has been running ten percent alcohol > for over twenty years. Alcohol destroys neoprene, which was used on all [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > Coasty Hi Mike, I was being my usual sarcastic self, they've replaced the neoprene with some other plastic, like in this new Holley kit: http://www.billhughes.com/holley.jpg God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com > No way, I am still getting the neoprene needle seats... > > Mike I don't think so..... My needles barely last a year. The are done in for sure every 2 years. The one I have in now has started to leak and it's only a year old. I just pulled it and cleaned it's slides and tip and we will see if I have to buy a kit or not.... I was experimenting with that crappy gas mix and my carb's mix to see if I could burn the junk. Folks told me I was running lean if it wouldn't burn alcohol so I tried to rich it up via the internal metering needles. All that got me was a mid range bog and bad gas mileage. I just went back to the stock settings and am hoping on the needle... Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Hi Mike, > I was being my usual sarcastic self, they've replaced the neoprene [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > Mike What kind of thermostat do you have in that vehicle? The FI rigs I have are pretty tolerant of what passes for fuel at the pumps near here, but FI doesn't make fuel burn any better than a carburetor does. Earle > I don't think so..... My needles barely last a year. The are done in > for sure every 2 years. The one I have in now has started to leak and [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > > > > > Mike Our Cherokee 4.0 doesn't seem to mind any old crap for gas. I run a 195 T-stat in the 4.2 and it normally runs about 210 or so. It is set up manually for carb and timing with no pollution computer running. Basically a pre 82 setup on a pre 82 engine. (think the engine is a 78, should check I have lots of heat. A bit too much in the summer because my winch and lights block some of the rad flow. Not hot enough to ever boil over, but I have 'failed' a fail safe t-stat open while off road running. I tried messing with the mix via the carb's metering pins to make it run a bit richer, but all that did was give me a mid range bog and lowered my mileage. Mike > What kind of thermostat do you have in that vehicle? The FI rigs I have are > pretty tolerant of what passes for fuel at the pumps near here, but FI [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** > *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** It /appears/ that the show may have misunderstood. What I found was that the US EPA is dropping the oxygenation requirements for Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) road fuel effective May, 2006. MTBE was the agent that was most commonly used -- until individual USofA states started banning it over groundwater contamination and carcinogenesis concerns. This doesn't mean that they will require E-10 in its place. Here's a news article from Maryland that gives a quick gloss on the subject: <URL:http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/harford/bal-md.mtbe17feb17001554,0,539930 5.story?coll=bal-local-harford> Individual states are free to continue to require oxygenate additives, it is just that the Feds won't require it. Connecticut, my home state, has used 5% ethanol for its RFG for several years. In addition, MTBE producers are shutting down production of the additive, partly because they've failed to secure immunity from civil lawsuits, partly over diminished demand as gasoline marketers run away from it and individual states ban it as an additive. This leaves ethanol as the most likely replacement. I can't find anything that says that the EPA will require all RFG to be E-10, and it wouldn't make sense anyway when E-5 works just as well from a tailpipe emissions point of view. And I'm not sure that there's enough corn in the country to make that much ethanol right now anyway. Further reading: EPA Regulations and Standards - Reformulated Gasoline: <URL:http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg_regs.htm> Chevron - Oxygenated Gasoline: <URL:http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/4_oxygenated-ga soline/> And an amusing one: "Evaluation of methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) as an interference on commercial breath-alcohol analyzers" <URL:http://www.epa.gov/nerl/nerlmtbe.htm> Can excessive occupational exposure to MTBE result in false positive Breath-a-lizer readings? Nope. > Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was > listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Coasty > Individual states are free to continue to require oxygenate additives, > it is just that the Feds won't require it. Connecticut, my home state, > has used 5% ethanol for its RFG for several years. I also live in CT, and haven't seen a pump without a "Contains 10% Ethanol" sticker for some time. Are you sure the RFG is only 5%? >> Individual states are free to continue to require oxygenate additives, >> it is just that the Feds won't require it. Connecticut, my home >> state, has used 5% ethanol for its RFG for several years. > > I also live in CT, and haven't seen a pump without a "Contains 10% > Ethanol" sticker for some time. Are you sure the RFG is only 5%? Until you asked, yes I was. I'll be tanking up today, I'll check the pump sticker then. As I understand it, Oxygenates do little for emissions in most modern cars with O2 sensors and feedback fuel injection systems, which may be why the requirement is being dropped. The O2 sensor detects the extra oxygen and richens the mixture. When ethanol is used as the oxygenate this causes a double hit to mpg. There is some reduction in emissions during cold and warm starts when most systems ignore the O2 sensor and operate in a mode pre-programmed into the computer. Those modes are usually described in the FSM. Some older carbs from the 70s & early 80s have fixed jets or in some cases optional sizes are not available under EPA law. I ran into this on an older Yamaha motorcycle which was cold-blooded on normal leaded gas and undriveable on the oxygenated gas. I did find a solution. Some machine and speed shops have jet drills, which can be used to make a stock fuel jet richer. I went one size larger on both the main and pilot jets and it runs much better. Unless replacement stock jets are available, there's no going back so it's best to be conservative. The cost was very reasonable and you shouldn't try this at home. > It /appears/ that the show may have misunderstood. What I found was > that the US EPA is dropping the oxygenation requirements for [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Can excessive occupational exposure to MTBE result in false positive > Breath-a-lizer readings? Nope. "The cost was very reasonable and you shouldn't try this at home." Not even if you can find a welding tip drill that just happens to be the correct size. ;^) Earle > As I understand it, Oxygenates do little for emissions in most modern > cars with O2 sensors and feedback fuel injection systems, which may be [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > Here's a news article from Maryland that gives a quick gloss on the subject: <URL:http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/harford/bal-md.mtbe17feb17001554 ,0,5399305.story?coll=bal-local-harford> > > Individual states are free to continue to require oxygenate additives, > > it is just that the Feds won't require it. Connecticut, my home state, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > > > Chevron - Oxygenated Gasoline: <URL:http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/4_oxyg enated-gasoline/> > > And an amusing one: > > "Evaluation of methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) as an interference on > > commercial breath-alcohol analyzers" > > <URL:http://www.epa.gov/nerl/nerlmtbe.htm> > > Can excessive occupational exposure to MTBE result in false positive > > Breath-a-lizer readings? Nope. drilled jets do not flow the same as a manufactured one of the same size. usually, they flow worse than a 'manufactured' one. drilling is hit and miss but it will get you where you need to be eventually... unless you go too big, oops. a set of jet reamers are cheap. > "The cost was very reasonable and you shouldn't try this at home." > > Not even if you can find a welding tip drill that just happens to be the > correct size. ;^) Hi Clay, True, but these are just tubes that direct the flow from the main jets in the Weber Carter BBD #51: http://www.carburetorfactory.com/expvw03.html God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O mailto:LWHughes3rd@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/ > drilled jets do not flow the same as a manufactured one of the same size. > usually, they flow worse than a 'manufactured' one. > drilling is hit and miss but it will get you where you need to be > eventually... unless you go too big, oops. > a set of jet reamers are cheap. Most of us with the Carter BBD drill out the idle pickup tubes crimped end to .032". The flow rate is then adjusted by the mix screws and then computer controlled stepper motor if it is operational. http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > drilled jets do not flow the same as a manufactured one of the same size. > usually, they flow worse than a 'manufactured' one. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Not even if you can find a welding tip drill that just happens to be the > > correct size. ;^) |
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