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Car Forum / Kia Cars / December 2008'06 Rio 5 Battery issues
Hi there, my '06 Rio has a freaky battery problem. I've seen others on different forums mentioning similar problems, but never seen a "fix". Here's what's been happening. Summertime; sitting in a parking lot for ten minutes with the fan only on - Dead battery. Roll start it - It's fine. No problem for about two weeks. Cooler weather, drive home at highway speeds about twenty minutes. Stop at drug store for prescription (engine stop, not a drive-thru). Come out, engine starts normally, but then drive from there to gas staion across street (~100 yards) and when I try to re-start - Dead battery! Get a jump start and drive home. Notice headlights are brighter when car is moving - Uh Oh! Sure 'nuff, dead battery next morning. Get a jump start and drive to Wal-Mart (figured they'd have a battery). They don't, but the car starts like brand new. So I drive directly to Pep Boys, and they put it on the diagnostic. They tell me - There's NOTHING WRONG. No problem with alternator, battery, solenoid, cables, nothing! Graciously, they don't charge me anything. So now I have to figure out what to do next. The dealer wants to take the car for a full day, and not on the weekend. I'd rather not do that right now. The car has NO after-market equipment of ANY kind. HELP! I would have to agree that the best thing to do is let the dealership have the vehicle for a while, and let the problem duplicate itself for them. If I had to make a guess, it would be a bad relay somewhere. But it could be in 100 different places. It is strange, though. > Hi there, my '06 Rio has a freaky battery problem. I've seen others on > different forums mentioning similar problems, but never seen a "fix". [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > HELP! > I would have to agree that the best thing to do is let the dealership > have the vehicle for a while, and let the problem duplicate itself for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It is strange, though. I recently found a web page that proposes it's related to the security immobilization system. Apparently other Rio 5's (Are they ALL in Canada?) have the same issue. I appreciate your input. -Edvado >> I would have to agree that the best thing to do is let the dealership >> have the vehicle for a while, and let the problem duplicate itself [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -Edvado Kias have an immobilizer? I thought it was just a simple alarm system. Anyway, I think that since you could roll-start it would rule that out since any decent immobilizer circuit would shut off the ignition and/or fuel pump. When you say the battery is dead do you mean *DEAD* as in no lights at all, no remote door locks, no clicking from the starter solenoid? If you some electrical functions, one possibility is the ignition switch. The fact that the headlight brightness changes with engine speed would lead me to suspect the battery or alternator, despite what Pep Boys told you. I would carry a voltmeter with me so the next time I could check whether it is really low voltage from the battery or something not switching on (i.e. is there power at the fuses). > Kias have an immobilizer? I thought it was just a simple alarm > system. The Rio5 was a unique little vehicle in the line. Leather steering wheel cover, 4-wheel antilock disc brakes, etc. The immobilizer was actually a surprise to me, but when I looked it up, there it was. > Anyway, I think that since you could roll-start it would rule > that out since any decent immobilizer circuit would shut off the > ignition and/or fuel pump. Well, I don't know how the system is supposed to work except that apparently there's a chip in the key and circuit in the steering column. > When you say the battery is dead do you mean *DEAD* as in no lights at > all, no remote door locks, no clicking from the starter solenoid? If > you some electrical functions, one possibility is the ignition switch. I got a dome light and clock, but when I turn the key, the dome goes dim, and the clock scrambles. No "click" or noises. > The fact that the headlight brightness changes with engine speed would > lead me to suspect the battery or alternator, despite what Pep Boys > told you. I would carry a voltmeter with me so the next time I could > check whether it is really low voltage from the battery or something > not switching on (i.e. is there power at the fuses). Well, that I can do. Should I check it at the battery too? Where can I find the appropriate values? p.s. Thanks! -Edvado >> Kias have an immobilizer? I thought it was just a simple alarm >> system. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > -Edvado Voltage at the battery with no load Voltage Percent Charge 12.60V to 12.72V 100% 12.45V 75% 12.30V 50% 12.15V 25% If the battery voltage drops below 10 volts and the starter doesn't turn when you try to start, then there is a problem with the starter. With the engine running, the charging voltage becomes the operating voltage for the vehicle. The operating voltage will rise to about 13.8 to 14.5 volts. http://www.aa1car.com/library/battery_runs_down.htm > on - Dead battery. Roll start it - It's fine. No problem for about two > weeks. Sounds like a starter solenoid/wiring issue to me. > Cooler weather, drive home at highway speeds about twenty minutes. Stop > at drug store for prescription (engine stop, not a drive-thru). Come > out, engine starts normally, but then drive from there to gas staion > across street (~100 yards) and when I try to re-start - Dead battery! Still sounds like a starter solenoid/wiring issue. > Get a jump start and drive to Wal-Mart (figured they'd have a battery). > They don't, but the car starts like brand new. So I drive directly to At least we know it isn't the battery. > Pep Boys, and they put it on the diagnostic. They tell me - There's > NOTHING WRONG. No problem with alternator, battery, solenoid, cables, > nothing! Graciously, they don't charge me anything. I would hedge a bet that your problem most likely lies within the ignition switch, clutch pedal position switch, or the wiring in between. I had the same problem you are describing with my sephia. I was 5 years into ownership and I find out that the dealer hacked up the factory harness to install an alarm when the car was new, which I opted out of buying since the sephia came with an alarm from the factory(Surprised?) Unfortunately for me, the idiots at the dealership, which I might note is no longer in business, used crimp connectors to put back together the heavy gauge wire from the ignition switch to the clutch pedal position switch, and because of those crap connectors loosening up I got the click no-start treatment from the car. So I had to take that wiring apart again, solder and shrink-wrap the connections, and I was back in business for another year. Then the clutch pedal position switch died, same issue as before. Click no start, high resistance to the start solenoid. I bypassed the switch, and quite honestly, I would advise you to do the same for the sake of the crankshaft thrust bearings, which you are stepping on every time you press the clutch. When you do that with the engine off, you are scrubbing away on the thrust face of the bearing, and this is without oil pressure present since you are cranking the engine. I don't think you are having dead battery issues, it sounds more like you are having a failure to crank. I see from your other post that you report the dome light dims and the clock display changes when this problem occurs, which would rule out any immobolizer system in my book since they will keep your attempt to start from sending any power to the starter, and the dimming of the light indicates you are at least partially energizing the starter solenoid. I'm not sure what your mileage is but a starter will go 100,000 miles under normal conditions, and since you are making a warranty claim I will assume you are under that limit. It could possibly be a starter solenoid but I kind of doubt it, it is probably a wiring issue based on what you are describing. Chris > I would hedge a bet that your problem most likely lies within the > ignition switch, clutch pedal position switch, or the wiring in [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Chris Thanks for the analysis Chris. I think I can add a little more light. The car has less than 40,000 miles, and -no- after-market equipment of any kind. I think that rules out one or two of your possibilities unless something hs worn out prematurely. I had it go again last night, and I noticed something which COULD be a clue, or just a coincidence. The last THREE times I've had to jump start it, it hasn't worked on the first try. Each time I've had to re-position the jumper cable on the battery. Now, say there's a problem with one terminal on the battery..... -Wouldn't driving vibrations occasionally leave the connection broken? -Wouldn't jiggling the cable on the terminal possibly re-seat it? -Would that explain how the battery could "go dead" between a drug store and gas station across the street? -Couldn't the shaking involved in roll starting it (by myself) get that cable to re-seat? I have a service appointment with the dealer on Tuesday morning. Maybe I should go out and remove the cables and re-seat them before then? -Ed >> I would hedge a bet that your problem most likely lies within the >> ignition switch, clutch pedal position switch, or the wiring in [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > -Ed If the cable clamp is able to move at all on the battery terminal it is WAY too loose. No amount of jiggling or vibrations from you or driving should move it. If moving the cable itself (not the clamp on the battery) is what reestablishes the circuit then you have a bad cable. It is possible to have corrosion you can't see inside the insulation that can prevent starting. |
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