Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / April 2006
Murdering 4x4 paedophile rapist scum headlines on beeb again...
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Ian Rawlings - 11 Apr 2006 19:07 GMT http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm
While I'm no fan of the road-going 4x4 brigade, it's a little tiring having the daft opinions of some random teacher touted as the headline article in the entire education section. Especially with gems in it like "The driver's high vantage point also made it harder to see pedestrians".. Eh? The whole "status symbol" thing is a little tiring too, most of the ones I've seen could hardly ever be regarded as status symbols, and they're very very far from being expensive.
It's like that latest hoo-ha about the number of cautions for rape doubling in the last 10 years.. From 19 in the previous 10 years, to 40 in the last 10 years. If it was 1000 to 2000 then that would be something.
It's amazing what passes for news. I'd hate to think what kind of tosh gets regularly printed outside of the beeb in rags like the Mail and Sun.
If the beast passes the MOT tomorrow, I think I'll see about getting a rocket launcher attachment for it and go drum some sense into people.
In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I suppose.
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Lee_D - 11 Apr 2006 19:30 GMT Ian Rawlings <news05@tarcus.org.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm <snip>
> In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I > suppose. I know plenty of Teachers who have 4x4's. If his qualification to speak on the matter is being a History teacher then the BBC really are short of news worthy articles. It's much easier to see kids from a 4x4 than it is in our Laguna. The height actually makes for a better viewpoint. If the argument is you can't see them immediately behind then that applies to my Lagnua too. They really are talking absoloute tosh.
Lee
Ian Rawlings - 11 Apr 2006 20:45 GMT > It's much easier to see kids from a 4x4 than it is in our > Laguna. The height actually makes for a better viewpoint. I live outside a school, a small one but the road still gets packed with cars, something in the region of 30 or so. There are 2 4x4s that appear regularly, both with Ifor Williams hard-tops on the back with cage doors. The moan I had at the beeb when I wrote the letter was along the lines of "what's more likely to kill a kid, 2 4x4s or 30 cars". While driving around the country I've seen a few school runs, and 4x4s were always very much in the minority. Hardly scientific I know, but I don't think that 4x4s are the problem outside of schools, more like hundreds of cars packed in like sardines while the owners drive around not really paying attention.
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Austin Shackles - 11 Apr 2006 21:47 GMT >> It's much easier to see kids from a 4x4 than it is in our >> Laguna. The height actually makes for a better viewpoint. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >more like hundreds of cars packed in like sardines while the owners >drive around not really paying attention. and take off like a friggin' le mans start, too. The number of parents driving recklessly fast outside school amazes me.
once the kids are in the motor, belted or not, off they go at maximum warp.
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beamendsltd - 12 Apr 2006 08:39 GMT > > It's much easier to see kids from a 4x4 than it is in our > > Laguna. The height actually makes for a better viewpoint. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > more like hundreds of cars packed in like sardines while the owners > drive around not really paying attention. It's the politics of envy - nothing to do with safety. As for teachers, well my ex was a teacher and I was effectively banned from PTA "do's" as I had a nasty habbit of pointing out that the real world was rather different to that put forward by teaching Unions and Saloon Bar Experts. The classic was a teacher telling Bob The Builder he should go to a gymn and get some excersise.........he'd just put their roof trusses on single handed.
Richard
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Ian Rawlings - 12 Apr 2006 09:45 GMT > It's the politics of envy - nothing to do with safety. I'm not convinced of that, given that 4x4s aren't exclusive or expensive on the whole, and if it was envy they'd be attacking sports cars and executive saloons more as well. I reckon it's the gossip-circuit science that "proves" all 4x4s use more fuel than all non-4x4s, allowing the non-4x4 drivers to feel all environmental by not driving one and attacking those who do. That and the "proof" about safety issues, which do have some grounding in truth, but at just 15% of the total consumer car population, not really significant.
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beamendsltd - 12 Apr 2006 10:36 GMT > > It's the politics of envy - nothing to do with safety. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > just 15% of the total consumer car population, not really > significant. Ah, but they can't attack sports/performance cars, because they arn't (necesserily) that easy to spot and their friend may well own one, whereas (what they mean by) 4x4's stand out - in other words, the anti's (as ever) go for the easy target rather than what (they percieve) is the problem. Ask them if a Fiat Panda 4x4 should also be banned and they'll probably look at you blankly - the chances of them knowing they even exist, never mind spotting one, are not good. Pointing out that a Series motor is (for all practical purposes) 2-wheel drive also throws them......they won't have bothered checking out the facts, and they won't listen to what they don't want to hear [1]
Just my 2p.
Richard
[1] applies to all anti's on any subject. The Ramblers Association having better rights than everyone else's boring old everyday rights is the classic example.
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Steve - 12 Apr 2006 14:14 GMT > > > It's the politics of envy - nothing to do with safety. > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > having better rights than everyone else's boring old everyday rights > is the classic example. Another glaring (but conveniently side-stepped) omission is slab-fronted delivery vans / builders hacks / lorries which will do just as much damage. However, two things spring immediately to mind: a) how many of those children hit by vehicles are *actually* hit by "4x4's" (and why haven't mummy and daddy taught their offspring to cross the road properly), and b) it doesn't have to be a "4x4", even if little Johnny or Jemima get's hit by a Fiat 500 or some sweating lycra-clad two-hat on a push bike it's *still* going to sting!
No doubt there's an MP/election candidate somewhere who thinks there's a few votes to be had here and will jump on the bandwagon with slogans such as: "The overwhelming majority of the population has given us the mandate to bring in these [omits "ill-conceived and draconian"] measures to ban the horrible nasty stinky eeewww fox-killing paedophile rapist will kill your child if they're so much as in the same county and granny ain't safe either gas-guzzling [that's GOT to be in there somewhere!!] crested newt/orchid/badger/bunny/rare something destroying [but only rare because some other vocal minority pressure group whose votes I also want told me it was rare] grid-lock making 4x4".
Phew! Soap box tested, works a treat. Steve
Warwick Barnes - 19 Apr 2006 00:54 GMT I have survived my life by operating on the principle that paranoid is the only possible sane way to be . Having observed that 4x4s are only the latest of a long line of targeted minorities (4x4 sales last year 160,000 against total car sales of 2.6 million or so the Times has mentioned) I have to assume that there are paid publicists keeping the pot stirred and Mr/Mrs/Miss average British brain dead, it would seem, responds every time.
As to who pays them I have yet to satisfy myself, but government would seem to be a good bet as they take another punt at countrymen and women before another discriminatory tax hike. It could of course be others but a competitor is likely to lose as much as the target which seems unlikely for such a minority market, and it seems unlikely that anybody would privately fund such a scheme, although I did come across a researcher who was a rabid anti-smoker years ago and who felt quite justified to falsify all his research results!
It might, of course be a quango, who are paying for this in order to remain relevant and therefore funded, but what we need are a few whistle blowers to point us in the direction of these evil bastards.
Years ago it was generally an anonymous MP who felt the need to attach his/her name to some campaign to enhance their chance of re-election, the campaign had of course to be proved a go-er before attaching the MP. Perhaps this is still the case, they get paid enough and with the graft most are pretty reluctant to give it up.
Generally the dictum "who gains, where does the money go" leads you to the answer, but as yet it is hard to see who profits by the demise of 4x4s. Most manufacturers now produce one as do pretty well all car manufacturing countries. This might be the route to look at as 4x4s are pretty well the only cars produced in the UK with a British feel to them.
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willie@macleod-group.com - 11 Apr 2006 21:15 GMT > you can't see them immediately behind then that applies to my Lagnua too. One other thing is that especially in a car park with some vehicles running, some not, you can normally tell when a LR product has started and is moving due to the vast quantities of smoke+noise, crunching gears etc. So the kids have plenty of time to get out of the way ;-)
Modern cars are that quiet I regularly get flattened in car parks by cars moving backwards....
Regards
William MacLeod
Larry - 11 Apr 2006 19:43 GMT Never read anything more idiotic in my life, any driver of any car, bus or tank, should drive it with due care and attention to other road users and pedestrians, that is the law.
All vehicles have blind spots, and it is always the drivers responsibility to drive within the capabilities of the vehicle.
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> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I > suppose. Larry - 11 Apr 2006 19:44 GMT Never read anything more idiotic in my life, any driver of any car, bus or tank, should drive it with due care and attention to other road users and pedestrians, that is the law.
All vehicles have blind spots, and it is always the drivers responsibility to drive within the capabilities of the vehicle.
 Signature Larry Series 3 rust and holes
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I > suppose. Simon Isaacs - 11 Apr 2006 20:57 GMT >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I >suppose. huh, the kids, their parents and staff all keep an eye on me to see what 4x4 I come to work in. *Everyone* thinks burrt is cool!
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Simon Isaacs Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director 101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer! Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next 1993 200 TDi Discovery 1994 200 TDi Discovery body shell, being bobbed and modded.....
Ian Rawlings - 11 Apr 2006 21:02 GMT > huh, the kids, their parents and staff all keep an eye on me to see > what 4x4 I come to work in. *Everyone* thinks burrt is cool! Thankfully I'm no longer an evil bunny killing murderous 4x4 satanic terrorist, as I drive a 6x6! Bunny hugs all round.
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brafield@hotmail.com - 11 Apr 2006 21:17 GMT Come on, driving kids to school in a 4x4 is nonsense. 90% of driving-kids-to-school is nonsense anyway. We walked or bused, and consequently developed social skills and independence along the way. As for "danger lurking" -- all the pedophiles we met were at the front of the classroom.
More 4x4 nonsense: in BC, Canada at least, I see many 4x4's in the ditch after a snowstorm. One reason of course is arrogant assumption about 4x4 traction.
The other, which cropped up interestingly during a series of expert car-talk programmes, is that in straight-line highway driving in ice or snow, two-wheel drive operates more predictably. Several contributors were puzzled by the self-steering, 'hunting', and awkward steering of their vehicles on snowy highways, and the engineers involved told them to turn off 4wd when on the level: the two axles (and in some vehicles each wheel) were trying to "equalize" something that did not need to be equalized.
I love Land Rovers absolutely, but I know from farm experience that an old Morris Minor pickup 2wd on winter tires was only rarely in trouble in the fields with regard to traction, and the Landy on the roads would occasionally bite back (expensively if we forgot to take it outr of 4wd, I'm talking about the early 1960's).
I appreciate how annoying it is to feel sniped at, especially on the Beeb and especially by a teacher, but taking kids to school in a 4x4 is Nature's way of saying you have too much money and not enough work!
Long live Land Rovers for sheer recreation pleasure on and off the road. I bused and walked, and my daughter bused and walked, and we pitied in our turn the kids who had to ride with mum or dad to the school gates.
Ian Rawlings - 11 Apr 2006 21:34 GMT > I appreciate how annoying it is to feel sniped at, especially on the > Beeb and especially by a teacher, but taking kids to school in a 4x4 is > Nature's way of saying you have too much money and not enough work! Not sure you read my post to be honest, I don't think people should be piling up in anything, 4x4 or not, outside of schools. In my opinion we have a whole shitload of people who are causing problems with pollution throughout the country, all pointing at 4x4 users and blaming them, when in reality 4x4 users are an insignificant sideshow compared to the majority due to weight of numbers.
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brafield@hotmail.com - 11 Apr 2006 22:52 GMT > Not sure you read my post to be honest, I don't think people should be > piling up in anything, 4x4 or not, outside of schools. In my opinion > we have a whole shitload of people who are causing problems with > pollution throughout the country, all pointing at 4x4 users and > blaming them, when in reality 4x4 users are an insignificant sideshow > compared to the majority due to weight of numbers. **** Yes, I did rush it, I admit, and my "Chelsea Tractor" button lit up! Scuse me.
And BTW just this week I read (West Coast Canada) that a single average large freight ship entering and leaving port emits more nitro-whatever pollutants in one hour than 35,000 motor vehicles. In fact if I checked back I think the ratio was even worse. We now have air monitoring stations on the coast and ship-engine pollution is truly scary, but "invisible" and not thought of by everyone of course. ****
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! Ian Rawlings - 11 Apr 2006 23:34 GMT > And BTW just this week I read (West Coast Canada) that a single > average large freight ship entering and leaving port emits more > nitro-whatever pollutants in one hour than 35,000 motor vehicles. Doesn't surprise me, I try to buy British food, not just to support our locals, but because I don't care how bunny-hugging the food on the shelves claims to be, if it's been shipped from the USA or Israel it's burning and looting bunny city just like us evil 4x4 terrorists.
You don't see much on the box about people flying out to get their shopping or for short holidays either, there have been a few short articles on it, but nothing like the kind of sustained presence that 4x4 users are subjected to. The "moral majority" don't like to look at themselves when they have some handy scapegoats nearby.
I've also seen people pulling up at the local recycling centre in cars, and dumping off one bin-bag full of clippings into the "garden waste" bin.. Grr!
I also STR an article about what happens to the stuff we send off for recycling. Much of it gets shipped overseas! Much of the plastic we "recycle" ends up in landfill in China according to whatever article it was (probably on the beeb website, that's all I bother reading these days).
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Austin Shackles - 11 Apr 2006 21:49 GMT >I appreciate how annoying it is to feel sniped at, especially on the >Beeb and especially by a teacher, but taking kids to school in a 4x4 is >Nature's way of saying you have too much money and not enough work! but of course taking them in a people carrier or a large saloon car is OK?
that's the sort of crap we're up against.
and yes, I reckon they should walk.
 Signature Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Confidence: Before important work meetings, boost your confidence by reading a few pages from "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
Roger - 11 Apr 2006 21:54 GMT > It's amazing what passes for news. I'd hate to think what kind of > tosh gets regularly printed outside of the beeb in rags like the Mail > and Sun. If her tits are not 38 to 44 DDs then that is newsworthy!!
Neil Brownlee - 12 Apr 2006 09:17 GMT <sigh>
I've said it before and I'll say it again - It's not the car, it's the driver.
Case in point, when the anti-4x4 brigade were at my house filming, my next door neighbour reversed off her drive, straight into the greenpeace BRIGHT RED Ford Ka. I'm not talking slightly bumped, I'm talking RAMMED. Basically she didn't look and reversed at speed! Was she driving a 4x4? Was she bob...she was driving a Bora! Her excuse? "I was wondering what was going on over there (my house)" - in my book - NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THE ROAD.
Anyway....it's about jealousy in my book. Ban it 'cos we can't have/afford it. If I choose to drop off my kids at the school on my way to work (and pick up some colleagues on the way), I park carefully and considerately. The vehicle has reversing cameras and parking sensors - but so what? I can still ignore them and run someone over *if I am not paying attention*. Any car, any person. Not just 4x4's!
Oh and just to put this in perspective, my daughter walks to school, my son is still a little to young to deal with the main roads (he's not the most world-wise person - wanders around walking into things!). In the winter we will pick them up from the after school club at around 6pm ... and we are usually one of 2 cars outside the school at that time :-)
Oh and the headmistress drives a 4x4, and so do a few of the teachers (one is a very nice 90 and the other an RTV Lightweight!)
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Tom Woods - 12 Apr 2006 22:28 GMT >Oh and the headmistress drives a 4x4, and so do a few of the teachers (one >is a very nice 90 and the other an RTV Lightweight!) A lot of high school head teachers (that ive seen working round here) seem to have either big luxury cars or big engined convertibles. I've never seen a head teacher driving a small car!
Lizzy Taylor - 13 Apr 2006 11:01 GMT > I've > never seen a head teacher driving a small car! Many many moons ago, when I was at secondary school, my headmistress (a single lady) drove a Renault 5. Smallest car in the school car park.
Lizzy
Ian Rawlings - 13 Apr 2006 12:18 GMT > Many many moons ago, when I was at secondary school, my headmistress (a > single lady) drove a Renault 5. Smallest car in the school car park. When I were a lad, we had a home economics teacher who had long hair that she tied up in strict Germanic buns on the side of her head, made her look very strict. She used to come into work on a whopping great big Harley Davidson with an open-face helmet like some kind of thunder goddess. What she needed was some Wagner roaring out of a getto blaster to complete the picture. I doubt she'd be allowed to do that these days, doesn't fit the grey mould.
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Larry - 13 Apr 2006 17:52 GMT Did she dress in leathers and carry a whip :)
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> When I were a lad, we had a home economics teacher who had long hair > that she tied up in strict Germanic buns on the side of her head, made [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > blaster to complete the picture. I doubt she'd be allowed to do that > these days, doesn't fit the grey mould. Ian Rawlings - 14 Apr 2006 07:25 GMT > Did she dress in leathers and carry a whip :) Certainly not at school!
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Richard Brookman - 13 Apr 2006 18:25 GMT This Ian Rawlings anon leet fle a fart, As greet as it had been a thonder-dent, That with the strook he was almoost yblent. and said....
> When I were a lad, we had a home economics teacher who had long hair > that she tied up in strict Germanic buns on the side of her head, made > her look very strict. She used to come into work on a whopping great > big Harley Davidson with an open-face helmet like some kind of thunder > goddess. What she needed was some Wagner roaring out of a getto > blaster to complete the picture. Fwoooaaaarrrrrr. Bet she had the third year lads going.
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Ian Rawlings - 14 Apr 2006 07:26 GMT > Fwoooaaaarrrrrr. Bet she had the third year lads going. Not really TBH, she was a bit butch and had the lezzer look about her, what's often described today as a "bull dyke".
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Richard Brookman - 14 Apr 2006 10:17 GMT ||| Fwoooaaaarrrrrr. Bet she had the third year lads going. || [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] || -- || Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! Ah. I went to a boys' school, with an all-male staff, and then in the Sixth Form the school suddenly appointed a female economics teacher. She was absolutely lovely, perfect adolescent fantasy material. Ive never seen as many pencils dropped to the floor.
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