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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / April 2006Towing a Defender on an A-Frame?
Anyone any experience of towing a Defender 110 on an A-Frame? Are there weight requirements of the tow vehicle, legistative gotchas, and what do I need to add to the tow vehicle and the Landy to make it all work? I'd like to be able to tow the Defender behind the Pinz, Defender weighs about 2 tonnes, Pinz about 2.4 tonnes but has excellent stability due to extra wheels. Pinz has a NATO hitch.  SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > Anyone any experience of towing a Defender 110 on an A-Frame? Are > there weight requirements of the tow vehicle, legistative gotchas, and > what do I need to add to the tow vehicle and the Landy to make it all > work? I'd like to be able to tow the Defender behind the Pinz, > Defender weighs about 2 tonnes, Pinz about 2.4 tonnes but has > excellent stability due to extra wheels. Pinz has a NATO hitch. Practical problem: most A-frames have daft little wheels and tyres, and you'd be overloading them to hell with the weight of the front of a 110. Practical/legal: you'd be towing an unbraked 2-ton trailer. No idea how good Pinz brakes are, but they may not be good enough. Even if it was a mackled-up braked A-frame with over-run brakes, they'd probably be tiny. I've heard of (but never seen) ingenious devices to apply the brakes of towed vehicles with wonderful levers and so on, but I doubt if they meet any sort of standard. Apart from the situation of genuine breakdown recovery (and I'd guess magistrates would see through taking the rotor arm off so you could claim it had just broken down), the 110 plus A-frame would be officially a trailer, and trailers don't just need brakes, they now need brakes that comply with some European standard or other if they weigh over 750kg; plus all the requirements for lights that you could probably achieve with a lighting board and putting the 110's side lights on. So, I'm afraid a trailer's the only way, assuming, as discussed in the recent trailer thread, that you could find something to show the Pinz is rated by its makers (not just by its owner) to tow 2.5 tonnes or so. And also (with all due respect, not knowing the OP personally) that he is happy to tow a trailer and legally permitted to do so (group whatever it is on his licence). SignatureKevin Poole **Use current month and year to reply (e.g. apr2006@mainbeam.co.uk)*** Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby <snip> > So, I'm afraid a trailer's the only way, assuming, as discussed in the > recent trailer thread, that you could find something to show the Pinz is > rated by its makers (not just by its owner) to tow 2.5 tonnes or so. And > also (with all due respect, not knowing the OP personally) that he is > happy to tow a trailer and legally permitted to do so (group whatever it > is on his licence). well, the towing spec of a 710 (4x4) is 5000kg on road and 1500kg offroad Si ><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >well, the towing spec of a 710 (4x4) is 5000kg on road and 1500kg offroad Still doesn't solve the problem that under the current legislation you need overrun brakes for any trailer over 750kg and power/coupled brakes for any trailer over 3500kg. A-frames are a grey area of the law, and the consensus seems to be that an a-frame towed vehicle counts as a trailer and not as emergency recovery (ie like a rope or rigid pole). Alex I >Practical problem: most A-frames have daft little wheels and tyres, and >you'd be overloading them to hell with the weight of the front of a >110. A frames don't have wheels at all !!!! Towing dollies do You can get A frames with a braked headstock that operates the brake pedal on the trailed vehicle via a remote linkage. It is the slow speed manoeuvres that will cause you problems when using an A frame. And as for trying to tow over soft ground you might as well forget it as the towed vehicles wheels will dig in and will never go the way you want them to. Bit like a shopping trolley. A frames work well with smaller cars behind motor homes etc. but towing a 4x4 can be less than fun. Aside from the weight a towing dolly is out unless you want to remove the propshaft or fit FWH to the 110. SignatureMarc Draper > A frames don't have wheels at all !!!! > > Towing dollies do Yep, sorry: I was conflating the two. > You can get A frames with a braked headstock that operates the brake > pedal on the trailed vehicle via a remote linkage. Which may help with the practicalities of a breakdown-type recovery, but still doesn't make it a compliant trailer. > It is the slow speed manoeuvres that will cause you problems when > using an A frame. And as for trying to tow over soft ground you might > as well forget it as the towed vehicles wheels will dig in and will > never go the way you want them to. Bit like a shopping trolley. And the sheer bloody misery of tight manoeuvring a dolly, with or without a vehicle on it! > A frames work well with smaller cars behind motor homes etc. but > towing a 4x4 can be less than fun. Isn't the Aixam about the only "car" you can legally tow with one? SignatureKevin Poole **Use current month and year to reply (e.g. apr2006@mainbeam.co.uk)*** Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby > It is the slow speed manoeuvres that will cause you problems when using > an A frame. And as for trying to tow over soft ground you might as well > forget it as the towed vehicles wheels will dig in and will never go the > way you want them to. Bit like a shopping trolley. Indeed, and I can't reverse a trailer to save my life.. Chances are though the landy would be running so can be disconnected and driven. I'm thinking of a few situations where I want both the Pinz and Landy to be somewhere. It's probably best to get a car transporter trailer, given the space in my garden I'd have to park one of the cars on the trailer but as long as I take the weight off the trailer's wheels and prop it appropriately (depending on trailer) then it ought to be OK. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! || It's probably best to get a car transporter trailer Get one, and double your number of friends overnight. Mine is the only reason I have a social life. BTW, you can learn to reverse it. If I can, anyone can. SignatureRich ============================== I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one. >|| It's probably best to get a car transporter trailer > >Get one, and double your number of friends overnight. Mine is the only >reason I have a social life. > >BTW, you can learn to reverse it. If I can, anyone can. I could not reverse a trailer till I got a landrover, low box makes it all so easy! SignatureSimon Isaacs Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director 101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer! Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next 1993 200 TDi Discovery 1994 200 TDi Discovery body shell, being bobbed and modded..... <snip> > I could not reverse a trailer till I got a landrover, low box makes it > all so easy! My dad made me learn about reversing trailers when I was about 8 and we were collecting the hay off the fields. I'd drive the car and trailer from stack to stack, whilst Dad loaded it. Then I overshot one. "you can back it up cos you went past it" was his helpful response Well I did it, and 23 years later trailers of any length don't bother me at all Si >I >>Practical problem: most A-frames have daft little wheels and tyres, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Aside from the weight a towing dolly is out unless you want to remove >the propshaft or fit FWH to the 110. Aren't A-frames only legal for breakdown recovery? Most people tow their cars on a small trailer behind their motor homes. Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > Aren't A-frames only legal for breakdown recovery? Most people tow their > cars on a small trailer behind their motor homes. As I understand it from a fully qualified recovery person you can only use if vehicle is in a condition where it would pass an MOT, about the only people still using are digger drivers and sugar beet harvesters. If a vehicle is a breakdown recovery it should not be in contact with the road. So e ses! |
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