 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / May 2006Fifth Gear - More Anti Bias
Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an MPV? They went to an awful lot of expense to set this up - except that they used and "old" 4x4 (Disco 1) against a new Espace with all the latest design features. Presumably they had run out of budget and couldn't afford a Disco 3. Needless to say the dummies in the Espace came off best - but the disco had the last laugh - the air bags failed.  Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an > MPV? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > design features. Presumably they had run out of budget and couldn't > afford a Disco 3. Probably because Renault love crashing things, they spend more on crash testing than anyone else. I'd not be surprised in the least if Renault said "Here, have an Espace, just give us the test results and the remains back", whereas Ch5 would have had to pay for the old £1500 Disco. They neglected to mention that they were crashing a 2004 design into a 1960's design chassis. > Needless to say the dummies in the Espace came off best - but the > disco had the last laugh - the air bags failed. Suits me fine anyway, I've been buying cheap Range Rovers all over the shop in the last few weeks because of the "4x4 Tax" panic. I doubt they'll ever be this cheap again.. SignaturePete M - The Corporate Penguin. Renault Safrane 2.5 Executive, Range Rover Vogue EFI LPG, Range Rover Vogue EFi x 2 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 *For Sale* OMF#9 "This is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules" Any one relised yet that tax changes only affect new vehicles or have i missed something on dvla website >> Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an >> MPV? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >in the last few weeks because of the "4x4 Tax" panic. I doubt they'll ever >be this cheap again.. > Any one relised yet that tax changes only affect new vehicles or have > i missed something on dvla website [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>shop in the last few weeks because of the "4x4 Tax" panic. I doubt >>they'll ever be this cheap again.. Watched this show. How none of these program never high light how too avoid crashes or prepare just seems how to contend with head ons. john > Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an > MPV? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -- > hugh Yeah, I even thought about writing to 5th Gear, but what's the point? In the interview with the skool mommies prior to the test, it was noticeable that they were all driving X5's, XC90's etc. Not one Disco 1 in the interview, yet during the crash they said that the old Disco was a typical vehicle found on the skool run, and cost the same as the 10 grand they spent on the Espace. All I can say is that they were done, and should learn what 10 grand will really get them Disco-wise! Yet another biased 5th gear test! Pete. > > Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an > > MPV? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > another biased 5th gear test! > Pete. They couldn't do a proper comaprison - judging by the early 90's Espace I once had the misfortune to hire it's very unlikely they could have found one that old, and if they did the acceleration to get it up to speed would have finished it off anyway! Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone? Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay > Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an MPV? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Needless to say the dummies in the Espace came off best - but the disco > had the last laugh - the air bags failed. To be fair the last time they did this sort of test they compared a Fiesta and Freelander - the Freelander came off worst! Didn't see it myself - did they crash them head on into each other or into a concrete block??? > Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an > MPV? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > hugh > Reply to address is valid at the time of posting Ok - just been to their website http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=601&featureid=301&pageid=561 Looking at the photo the Espace clearly hits the Discovery more into it's front wing/door area. The strongest part of the espace hitting a weaker area on the Discovery. If it had been a proper head on or the Disco had been in the same position as the Espace the results would have been very different - they deliberately avoided a head on impact with the disco's chassis rails by the look of it. Look at the 2 photos and you will see what I mean. Discovery was hit right at the headlight and the front of the Espace then slews into the driver's wing/door. > Didn't see it myself - did they crash them head on into each other or into a > concrete block??? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > hugh > > Reply to address is valid at the time of posting I totally agree, they deliberately chose a type of accident that avoided the Disco's chassis coming into play. In the actual programme they pointed out that the Land Rover's "stiff chassis" was virtually undistorted! A direct head-on crash would have given very different results, but that's not what they wanted to show on TV and Renault probably wouldn't have given them a brand new Espace if it didn't help sell them... > I totally agree, they deliberately chose a type of accident that > avoided the Disco's chassis coming into play. In the actual programme [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > probably wouldn't have given them a brand new Espace if it didn't help > sell them... It is widely known that 4x4's do not actually perform particularly well in crashes because they have a solid (and very stiff) chassis. Don't know why anyone here is complaining. I didn't see the feature as particularly biased, they even said that they didn't know what the outcome would be because no-one had actually done this type of test before. Maybe if they had crashed an Espace into a DIII it would have been different, but you can't get a DIII for anywhere near the money of an Espace and they were trying to compare two similarly priced 'family' vehicles - their reasoning was valid. If they put a Metro up against the Disco it wouldn't exactly have been fair would it?! (although I agree that 10k for a D1 is a bit OTT, but even a DII would have had the same result being all but identical in the chassis department) The reason they did a 40% head-on collision is because that is what most accidents are like - it is pretty rare for cars to meet exactly 100% head-on - people usually make some sort of effort to avoid an oncoming car instead of running straight into it! LOL Even driving a Disco I somehow doubt that you would deliberately aim for a 100% head-on collision if you were in that situation because you thought that you would come off better when you hit the other vehicle!! :) What I found scary is that it was only 40MPH and that was the result, I mean, I travel around town at that sort of speed all day, it has certainly slowed me down! Of course (despite being a big LR fan) I may be slightly biased the other way, already owning an Espace for ferrying the family around in! :) Matt >> I totally agree, they deliberately chose a type of accident that >> avoided the Disco's chassis coming into play. In the actual programme [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Matt All I can say is that having been cut from the wreckage of a Ford Escort, I wouldn't trust anything between a motorbike and a Land-Rover with my or my families lives. Motorbikes can accelerate out of danger (on the whole - or lie down under an artic, as a mate of mine once did), and a Land-Rover - well, we know the advantages! I will add thought that being a biker certainly makes me more aware of the dangers of tossing 2 toms of metal around the road, and so perhaps I give that little extra leeway to other road users than your usual "school run jockey". Stuart > All I can say is that having been cut from the wreckage of a Ford > Escort, I wouldn't trust anything between a motorbike and a Land-Rover > with my or my families lives. Which is why I wouldn't put my family in an Escort either! I bought the Espace knowing that it had a good track record on safety, although I have to admit I didn't expect it to stand up quite so well to a collision with something as heavy as a Disco. > Motorbikes can accelerate out of danger or into it :-) > I will add thought that being a biker certainly makes me more aware of > the dangers of tossing 2 toms of metal around the road, and so perhaps I > give that little extra leeway to other road users than your usual > "school run jockey". As a biker (although sadly now ex-biker) I have to agree that riding a bike makes you much more road-aware. Should be compulsory for everyone to spend time on the road on a bike! Matt. > As a biker (although sadly now ex-biker) I have to agree that riding a > bike makes you much more road-aware. Should be compulsory for everyone > to spend time on the road on a bike! Still too dangerous, both from your own lack of care and those of other drivers. 60% of non-fatal accidents involving a car are down to the car driver, but 70% of biker deaths are down to the biker, 30% of them are single-vehicle deaths, i.e. no other vehicle involved. http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_035439.pdf (page 28) Riding around in a large truck with no crash protection, a paper-thin door, and dreadful handling has made me more road aware though ;-) So being in more danger makes some more aware but not all it seems. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > Still too dangerous, both from your own lack of care and those of > other drivers. 60% of non-fatal accidents involving a car are down to > the car driver, but 70% of biker deaths are down to the biker, 30% of > them are single-vehicle deaths, i.e. no other vehicle involved. > > http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_035439.pdf Exactly why I am an EX-biker!! (although more to do with SHMBO dictating that I am NOT having another bike, than my own decision!) Matt >> Still too dangerous, both from your own lack of care and those of >> other drivers. 60% of non-fatal accidents involving a car are down to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Exactly why I am an EX-biker!! (although more to do with SHMBO > dictating that I am NOT having another bike, than my own decision!) Humm... After years of track racing I had a 'big one' and SWMBO called in the promise that when she really-really wanted me to stop I would. Over the next few years I had two superbikes written off underneath me. The first guy said "Didn't see ya mate" but made the mistake of saying it when the policeman was listening so that was DC+A (he turned right across my line) and the second one was DinC so another nice simple insurance claim but I was still the guy flying down the road on my head. Frankly driving on the road was frightening in a way that closing on Armco at 140+ never was. It least I've seen guys in my class put their pride and joy sideways into gravel rather than hit a downed rider. Maybe that's why I got the Rangie. Cut that up in a white van and you'll know about it. However I daren't by MCN. I don't want to know what's good in the current crop of bikes. nigelH > Frankly driving on the road was frightening in a way that closing on > Armco at 140+ never was. It least I've seen guys in my class put > their pride and joy sideways into gravel rather than hit a downed > rider. Personally I'd love a bike, but having seen what a 30MPH accident can do to someone when they whack their head on a stone bridge I'd rather give it a miss, on the roads at least. I have thought about getting either an old classic BSA or similar to take to rallies, or a superbike to take to race tracks, but driving one on the public road is another matter. After all, for most of us whether car or bike, if we're going to die an early, violent death, it'll be on a public road while travelling to something mundane rather than death by terrorist attacks, murder, mutant baboons etc. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > Maybe that's why I got the Rangie. Cut that up in a white van and > you'll know about it. Ah but with a 101 we can cut you up.... Steve > Ah but with a 101 we can cut you up.... ... going downhill with a tailwind... SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! >> Ah but with a 101 we can cut you up.... > >... going downhill with a tailwind... and ear defenders ... SignatureAndyG >Which is why I wouldn't put my family in an Escort either! I bought the >Espace knowing that it had a good track record on safety, although I >have to admit I didn't expect it to stand up quite so well to a >collision with something as heavy as a Disco. I daresay it'd protect you reasonably in a head-on with a disco. Might not do the espace much good though :-) >or into it :-) BTDT... SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt" (confound the men who have made our remarks before us.) Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes] >> I totally agree, they deliberately chose a type of accident that >> avoided the Disco's chassis coming into play. In the actual programme [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >Matt So the message is if you drive a LR and you must have a head on collision make sure its 100% especially if you are about to hit an Espace. LOL Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an MPV? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Needless to say the dummies in the Espace came off best - but the disco > had the last laugh - the air bags failed. It occurs to me that a possible up-side of this sort of biased reporting is that there could be a shift away from buying 4x4s for school run use. This might reduce the number of "Chelsea tractors" and leave the anti's with less ammunition with which to bash true enthusiasts. Well, there's always hope! > Did anyone see the simulated crash to see if a 4x4 was safer than an MPV? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Needless to say the dummies in the Espace came off best - but the disco > had the last laugh - the air bags failed. I'm also not convinced by their "bigger" isn't always better. Is a Discovery really that much bigger? Discovery Espace Length 4524mm 4656mm Width 1793mm 2104mm Height 1928mm 1728mm Wheelbase 2540mm 2803mm Weight 1865kg 1665kg So it's taller and weighs a bit more. But 2 out of 5 dimensions being greater means it's a bigger vehicle? Phil |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.