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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / May 2006

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101 Ambulance stolen - Warrington

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Mother - 16 May 2006 09:47 GMT
STOLEN - RHD 101 Ambulance - UDH 357W

taken from Chesford Grange, Woolston, Warrington, Cheshire,
some time between Friday the 12th and Sunday the 14th of May

This is a NON RUNNER so will have been a planned theft.

Chassis Number: 95601292A

It is original apart from the back that has been striped
out of all it's ambulance parts as you can see from the photo's
and a few modifications to the wiring system.

Front furniture retainers have been removed, as have the front
fog lights.

http://www.101fc.net/stolen/index.htm

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"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance.  And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable."       Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

Larry - 16 May 2006 09:59 GMT
Worrying, cos who would want a 101 but an enthusiast, and to think that we
have tea leaves in our enthuiast community is not a good thing.

How did they carry it away ?

Signature

Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

> STOLEN - RHD 101 Ambulance - UDH 357W
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> http://www.101fc.net/stolen/index.htm
Mother - 16 May 2006 10:12 GMT
>Worrying, cos who would want a 101 but an enthusiast, and to think that we
>have tea leaves in our enthuiast community is not a good thing.

Not necessarily though - could be a "trader", or stolen for export, or
just scrap as the ally is worth a bit in an ambi.

>How did they carry it away ?

I suspect that if the owner knew this, he and the police may be a
little closer to nabbing the little gits.

Signature

"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance.  And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable."       Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

Austin Shackles - 16 May 2006 14:13 GMT
>Worrying, cos who would want a 101 but an enthusiast, and to think that we
>have tea leaves in our enthuiast community is not a good thing.
>
>How did they carry it away ?

It's got to be a big trailer or a tranporter.  I suppose it could have been
towed, but I can't say as I'd fancy it.
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
"Brevis esse laboro, Obscurus fio" (it is when I struggle to be
brief that I become obscure)  Horace (65 - 8 BC) Ars Poetica, 25

LizzyTaylor - 16 May 2006 15:19 GMT
>>How did they carry it away ?
>>    
>
>It's got to be a big trailer or a tranporter.  I suppose it could have been
>towed, but I can't say as I'd fancy it.
>  

This sort of thing is getting too frequent for my liking.

We used a big trailer with a winch when we collected our Ambi which was
also a non-runner and we needed another 101 to tow that.

I am very glad ours are kept in a locked yard out of public view.  I
think we will be increasing the security/suveillance level.

Lizzy
Simon Isaacs - 16 May 2006 12:23 GMT
>STOLEN - RHD 101 Ambulance - UDH 357W
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>http://www.101fc.net/stolen/index.htm

barstewards...

All these 101's getting nicked is becoming a worrying trend.....
Signature


Simon Isaacs

"Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote"
George Jean Nathan (1882-1955)

ROT13 me....

Pete M - 16 May 2006 16:54 GMT
In news:ec4j62hl0sae2a1uq48kosfk9q3n4imnbb@4ax.com,
Mother" <"@ {mother} @ <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> waffled on in a
semi-interesting fashion, it went something like this;
> STOLEN - RHD 101 Ambulance - UDH 357W
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> http://www.101fc.net/stolen/index.htm

There's a bunch of scrotes operating out of Kirkby somewhere (about 15 miles
away for the geographically challenged), who're sending a lot of 4x4 stuff
to Saudi and the like. Surprisingly it's not all new stuff either, although
I have noticed a lot of Discovery 2s heading towards the freeport on "G" reg
plates and the like.

Unfortunately, with Woolston being right in the middle of the motorways,
that 101 could be anywhere.

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Tom Woods - 16 May 2006 21:48 GMT
bummer :(

I thought that my 101 would be safe since it is a non-runner too

I should probably step up my security plans and get the CCTV in.
William Tasso - 16 May 2006 22:09 GMT
> bummer :(
>
> I thought that my 101 would be safe since it is a non-runner too
>
> I should probably step up my security plans

probably

> and get the CCTV in.

reminder: CCTV is not preventative - only a ground anchor can effectively  
stall a determind thief.

Signature

William Tasso

Alex - 16 May 2006 22:14 GMT
>> bummer :(
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>reminder: CCTV is not preventative - only a ground anchor can effectively  
>stall a determind thief.

You wanna bet? I know someone who had a very nice Yamaha motorbike
which he had in a secure, locked, CCTV covered garage, chained to 2
ground anchors.

He was mighty pissed to find his pride and joy had been knicked
despite all this.

Alex
Tom Woods - 16 May 2006 22:33 GMT
>> bummer :(
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>reminder: CCTV is not preventative - only a ground anchor can effectively  
>stall a determind thief.

If someone can manage to steal an immobile 101 then what can you do to
stop them stealing anything?

I could set 2 of those locakable posts (like carparks often have)
across my drive for when i go away. Only other way out involves
knocking down a wall which the neighbours should notice!

CCTV should put people off even if it doesnt stop them.
Tim Hobbs - 17 May 2006 08:56 GMT
>>> bummer :(
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>CCTV should put people off even if it doesnt stop them.

Tracker...

Additionally, you could fit a vehicle tracking unit.  I suspect one of
the crappy battery driven ones designed for trailers would go
unnoticed on the roof for the while (especially if you paint it grey
or something).

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Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

Austin Shackles - 17 May 2006 09:39 GMT
>If someone can manage to steal an immobile 101 then what can you do to
>stop them stealing anything?

You can't, ultimately.  You can only make it more difficult.

>I could set 2 of those locakable posts (like carparks often have)
>across my drive for when i go away. Only other way out involves
>knocking down a wall which the neighbours should notice!

petrol-driven disc cutter through the locks.  If anyone questions you, well,
the owner asked you to come and cut 'em off 'cos he'd lost the keys...

>CCTV should put people off even if it doesnt stop them.

it might deter.  then again, if they can see the camera they can sabotage
that first.
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"It is a characteristic of the human mind to hate the man one has injured"
Tacitus (c.55 - c.117) Agricola, 45

beamendsltd - 17 May 2006 10:07 GMT
> >If someone can manage to steal an immobile 101 then what can you do to
> >stop them stealing anything?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> it might deter.  then again, if they can see the camera they can sabotage
> that first.

Put a sign up - "Hidden Cameras" - it keeps them guessing and wasting
what they would regard as their valuable time.

Richard

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Larry - 17 May 2006 19:15 GMT
Mines ?

It gets worse though, anyone it seems can hire a builders lorry with a crane
on the back and clear off with anything including a Henry Moore sculpture,
which is probably scrap now. Even with four sturdy wheelclamps a landie
could be lifted this way. A tracker  would at least give some chance of
knowing where it is once nicked.

Signature

Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

> If someone can manage to steal an immobile 101 then what can you do to
> stop them stealing anything?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> CCTV should put people off even if it doesnt stop them.
SpamTrapSeeSig - 16 May 2006 23:48 GMT
>reminder: CCTV is not preventative - only a ground anchor can
>effectively  stall a determind thief.

Also, if these are being stolen to order (heaven forfend, but it does
look plausible), the chances are that groups like this one are actively
monitored. In which case, this supports William's comment: you probably
do need to take quite active precautions...

Regards,

Simonm.

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Andy - 17 May 2006 10:40 GMT
I would echo the earlier post regarding trackers. If you have a cherished
and rare vehicle like a 101 then fitting a tracking device is a great idea,
physical security and CCTV are useful but if the thieving gits are really
determined they will get it. At least if you fit a tracker you have a
reasonable chance of getting it back. (no need to fit on the roof, they are
totally hidden in the vehicle). On an everyday car it aint worth it as most
of us probably wouldn't want a car back that has been nicked and maybe
abused but for something like a 101 or other landie that you have probably
spent hours of work and time on it is irreplaceable really.

Andy

<1989 V8 90 CSW>
Tim Hobbs - 17 May 2006 15:13 GMT
>I would echo the earlier post regarding trackers. If you have a cherished
>and rare vehicle like a 101 then fitting a tracking device is a great idea,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
><1989 V8 90 CSW>

Yeah - I was suggested the roof for a trailer tracking device.  They
generally 'stick on' and have a replaceable / chargeable battery. They
also need line of sight to the sky.

Key thing is - don't advertise that it's fitted, or it's the first
thing they cut off...

Signature

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

Steve Taylor - 17 May 2006 15:35 GMT
> Yeah - I was suggested the roof for a trailer tracking device.  They
> generally 'stick on' and have a replaceable / chargeable battery. They
> also need line of sight to the sky.

Whats the typical cost Tim, I'm very very interested all of a sudden.

Steve
Tim Hobbs - 17 May 2006 21:29 GMT
>> Yeah - I was suggested the roof for a trailer tracking device.  They
>> generally 'stick on' and have a replaceable / chargeable battery. They
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Steve

http://www.axscend.com

www.oxloc.co.uk

I'd reckon on paying about £300 for the box, then chucking a few quid
a year on a pay-as-you sim card to keep it running.  This is based on
market research we did last summer.  a

Typical price point for sat tracking is about £1 per day for 'live
tracking', which you don't need.

Our boffins are building an ARM9-based linux box which will compete in
this arena, but much more programmable.  One obvious feature to
program in is a text message / voice call when the vehicle moves
outside programmable parameters - e.g. radio tag not in range (on
drivers key fob, not at normal hours, outside geofence etc.

Tracker is a very very good solution for theft, particularly the
monitored version.  However, you can't get the data yourself as it's a
closed system.  Your own system on the roof is more flexible, but
probably won't work out any cheaper.

Signature

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

Nige - 17 May 2006 21:41 GMT
>>> Yeah - I was suggested the roof for a trailer tracking device.  They
>>> generally 'stick on' and have a replaceable / chargeable battery. They
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> closed system.  Your own system on the roof is more flexible, but
> probably won't work out any cheaper.

Details Tim matey? Could be very interesting indeed.

> '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
> '03 Volvo V70
> '06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"
Tim Hobbs - 17 May 2006 21:55 GMT
>Details Tim matey? Could be very interesting indeed.

Won't be in the market for a few months yet.  It works, but it's still
on prototype PCB and lots of cut-and-strap.  Looks really good though
- took 5 mins to get bluetooth working on it, zigbee will be just as
difficult.

Actually, there's a thought...

If you can get a cheap PAYG mobile, home-grow some kind of PSU /
switch to power it on every 15 minutes.  When it wakes up, it looks
for a Class 1 bluetooth pair to the pc in your house.  If it's there,
it switches back off.   If it ain't there, it texts you to tell you
it's been nicked and stays switched on.  You can then use the cell
info to get the location....

Or something...
Signature


Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

Tom Woods - 17 May 2006 22:10 GMT
>>Details Tim matey? Could be very interesting indeed.
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Or something...

you can get data cards that go in a pc or laptop and use a SIM card
can't you?
I've built a carputer for the 101.
Tim Hobbs - 17 May 2006 22:24 GMT
>>>Details Tim matey? Could be very interesting indeed.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>can't you?
>I've built a carputer for the 101.

yep (got a blooming office full).  Few points to note.

a) they are all crap
b) they cost a fortune to run (mine is unmetered, £75 / month)
c) they are all crap - lock the CPU, don't get signal, drop it when
they've got it etc etc.

Signature

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

Tom Woods - 17 May 2006 22:40 GMT
>>you can get data cards that go in a pc or laptop and use a SIM card
>>can't you?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>c) they are all crap - lock the CPU, don't get signal, drop it when
>they've got it etc etc.

Is there a utility that will let you send text messages over a phone
connected via a data cable?
Could just trigger it to do so when car is started or moves away from
home.
Tim Hobbs - 17 May 2006 23:17 GMT
>>>you can get data cards that go in a pc or laptop and use a SIM card
>>>can't you?
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Could just trigger it to do so when car is started or moves away from
>home.

Dunno - would be phone specific.  Would probably be easier with a
Java-based or Windows Mobile phone.  You could probably set something
up that worked when the power came on rather than having to rig up a
serial input.  Sod all use if they trailer it away though.  Not my
area, but you might be able to read the cell information depending on
your network to get an idea of whether the phone is at home or not.

Anything else requires GPS, which adds cost, serial comms and needs
view of the sky.

Signature

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

Steve Taylor - 17 May 2006 23:29 GMT
> Anything else requires GPS, which adds cost, serial comms and needs
> view of the sky.

What kind of precision do these mobile phone tracking systems offer ?

Steve
Paul S. Brown - 17 May 2006 23:34 GMT
>> Anything else requires GPS, which adds cost, serial comms and needs
>> view of the sky.
>
> What kind of precision do these mobile phone tracking systems offer ?
>
> Steve

+-50m for CPS Cursor AKA Enhanced Observed Time Differential - this is the
system that's being deployed as "GPS" in all US cellphones at the moment.

For some of the Sooperdedooper alarms with DGPS - accuracy of sub 1m.

P.
Steve - 18 May 2006 00:16 GMT
> +-50m for CPS Cursor AKA Enhanced Observed Time Differential - this is the
> system that's being deployed as "GPS" in all US cellphones at the moment.
So good enough to act as a tracking signal, without the having clear sky
view ?

A GSM modem takes bugger all juice, and can be left on the network
virtually permanently.

Steve
Dave Liquorice - 18 May 2006 08:01 GMT
>> +-50m for CPS Cursor AKA Enhanced Observed Time Differential - this is
>> the system that's being deployed as "GPS" in all US cellphones at the
>> moment.
>
> A GSM modem takes bugger all juice, and can be left on the network
> virtually permanently.

Presumably chatting away over GPRS, so you have a proper data link. With
the linux box "on the roof" you could upload an image or three with burnt
in date/time/location from hidden (USB?) camera(s) to somewhere secure.

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Mother - 18 May 2006 08:49 GMT
>I've built a carputer for the 101.

http://www.101fc.net/files/vids/digidash-20060225.wmv

Signature

"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance.  And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable."       Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

Tom Woods - 18 May 2006 15:46 GMT
>>I've built a carputer for the 101.
>
>http://www.101fc.net/files/vids/digidash-20060225.wmv

show off :)

very nice though!. ive got a lilliput 7" screen for mine but i couldnt
afford a little via 12v board so im using a small pc with an inverter.

I was about to ask why it was running windows till i saw the titling
at the end ;)

so what are you actually using for the 'dash' bits?
Mother - 18 May 2006 23:13 GMT
>>http://www.101fc.net/files/vids/digidash-20060225.wmv
>
>show off :)
>
>very nice though!. ive got a lilliput 7" screen for mine but i couldnt
>afford a little via 12v board so im using a small pc with an inverter.

Prolly a better idea in some senses to do so IMO.

>I was about to ask why it was running windows till i saw the titling
>at the end ;)

The VMware session is fired on boot - I'm happy that I can just kill
Windoze like any other app :-)

>so what are you actually using for the 'dash' bits?

Nothing yet - just running it as a car PC - for satnav and music etc.
I figured I really need to 'just do something you lazy sod' rather
than waiting until I had everything I need.  I can add any interface
to it as I need to.  The basic code is fine, but the IO has jet to be
decided - and what plugs into the IO, obviously :-)

Signature

"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance.  And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable."       Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

Tom Woods - 18 May 2006 23:28 GMT
>>so what are you actually using for the 'dash' bits?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>to it as I need to.  The basic code is fine, but the IO has jet to be
>decided - and what plugs into the IO, obviously :-)

Same idea here - except that i built the car pc 2.5 years ago or so,
but it never made it into the car as it works as a nice touchscreen
stereo which is ideal for when you have a big job on in the garage! :)
Mother - 18 May 2006 08:48 GMT
>Actually, there's a thought...
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>it's been nicked and stays switched on.  You can then use the cell
>info to get the location....

Course, what you're talking about is a slightly upgraded version of my
old Ericsson SH888 'alarm - build some 5 odd years ago and encased in
resin.  Bugger, why did I encase it all in resin...

Signature

"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance.  And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable."       Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

beamendsltd - 18 May 2006 09:10 GMT
> >Details Tim matey? Could be very interesting indeed.
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Or something...

That's an idea - as long as the Bluetooth is rather more
reliable that my Nokia (spit) - I'd be out of bed every 10 mins!

Richard
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RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

Mother - 17 May 2006 16:16 GMT
>Key thing is - don't advertise that it's fitted, or it's the first
>thing they cut off...

And probably cheaper than the 100 odd quid a year for Tracker
subscription.  Mind, Tracker does work pretty well and they sent a
guard to look after a car found by Tracker while the police arrived (6
hours later).
Neil Brownlee - 18 May 2006 11:55 GMT
Tracker ADR is another excellent system.

Signature

Neil

Lee_D - 18 May 2006 12:42 GMT
Neil Brownlee <n.brownlee@pccontrolNOSPAMsystems.com> uttered summat
worrerz funny about:
> Tracker ADR is another excellent system.

I've got experience at the sharp end of tracker and can say it's the muts
nutts. We've recovered bucket loads of vehicles and plant with it, our force
has alot of the kit installed mind including the Force Chopper which really
comes in to it's own when we start getting a ping. Once vehicle will suffice
though given patients, time and officers with half a clue. We've even had
hit's from vehicles within buildings.

Lee
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Morph - He's "living the dream".

a.f.l. & 101ers Unofficial October 2006
<http://www.lrproject.com/afl__101_owners_unofficial.htm>

Austin Shackles - 18 May 2006 14:29 GMT
>Neil Brownlee <n.brownlee@pccontrolNOSPAMsystems.com> uttered summat
>worrerz funny about:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>nutts. We've recovered bucket loads of vehicles and plant with it, our force
>has alot of the kit installed mind including the Force Chopper

you know you're in trouble when the scrotes start trying to nick the
chopper...

Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.  
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

Ian Rawlings - 18 May 2006 16:26 GMT
> you know you're in trouble when the scrotes start trying to nick the
> chopper...

I think he means the detection kit Austin...

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Tim Hobbs - 18 May 2006 22:35 GMT
>Neil Brownlee <n.brownlee@pccontrolNOSPAMsystems.com> uttered summat
>worrerz funny about:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Lee

Lee - anyone at your place know a supplier of calibrated odometers, or
someone who can tell me the accuracy of mine?

Signature

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

Dave Liquorice - 19 May 2006 10:01 GMT
> Lee - anyone at your place know a supplier of calibrated odometers,

"Calibration" is dependant of the rolling radius of your tyres, so you
travel further and go faster if the pressures are low.  B-)

> someone who can tell me the accuracy of mine?

"Measured miles" used to exist near most police forces traffic HQs for
checking their speedos etc. The one I used to know about, on the A69
Newcastle side of Hexham, disappeared a couple of years ago though.

Failing that, marker post on Motorways are 100m apart. You do the maths
for miles and how many you need to pass in how long for a given speed.

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Paul S. Brown - 19 May 2006 10:45 GMT
>> Lee - anyone at your place know a supplier of calibrated odometers,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Failing that, marker post on Motorways are 100m apart. You do the maths
> for miles and how many you need to pass in how long for a given speed.

Get a TomTom satnav and tell it to show speed - it's a 1 second average, but
if you average it over a few (Like 10) seconds you'll get a decent
calibration on your speedo.

P.
Tim Hobbs - 19 May 2006 10:56 GMT
>>> Lee - anyone at your place know a supplier of calibrated odometers,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>P.

All good, but not really what I'm after.  I want to check the accuracy
of a device over about 1000 miles, on a mixture of roads.  Currently I
have a discrepancy of about 8% between the box and the Navara (the
Navara being higher).  What I don't know is whether one is low, one is
high or a bit of both.

Rolling radius of the wheels can be maintained over that distance -
wear will be negligible.  The 1000 miles will be covered in 48 hours
quite easily so pressures can be held static (I've just passed 5000
miles and have had the truck since end of March).

Signature

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"

Austin Shackles - 19 May 2006 11:30 GMT
>All good, but not really what I'm after.  I want to check the accuracy
>of a device over about 1000 miles, on a mixture of roads.  Currently I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>quite easily so pressures can be held static (I've just passed 5000
>miles and have had the truck since end of March).

the motorway posts have numbers on 'em too - you could pick a suitable bit
of motorway driving, hit the trip meter as you pass a post with a known
number and then drive e.g. 100km or something (or more, if you're going
further on the same motorway) and then note the reading.  In fact, for
better accuracy, you could pull onto the hard shoulder, park beside a post,
zero the trip, then drive, then pull onto the hard shoulder by a post near
your exit point, and note the mileage on the truck milometer as compared to
the distance on the m-way markers.

if you can do about 200Km on the same road, the measured distance should be
accurate to well under 0.1% - the markers are 100m apart, so over 200Km the
distance between markers is 0.5% and even if they markers are not measured
with pinpoint accuracy, on that sort of a scale you can get well under one
tenth of a scale division[1] accuracy.  I'd have thought that would get you
close enough, really.  you should be able easily (especially if you repeat
the exercise on several different motorways) to get the accuracy down to
0.05% by suitable statistical analysis, maybe better than that.  You can
position the truck within a metre of the marker post, I reckon, easily
enough if you stop on the hard shoulder beside it...

[1] cue discussion about accuracy of readings: when I was doing physics in
uni, the bloke teaching us about experimental technique held that if you
have a scale with divisions n, and measure a quantity x using said scale,
your accuracy was always +/-(n).  I held than in general you could easily
get +/-(0.5n).  There are special cases where this doesn't apply, but as a
general rule, your starting point will be chosen to match a scale division
to high(ish) accuracy.  

Suppose, for example, you measure a steel bar, which has an actual length of
123.4cm using a ruler with 1cm divisions.  You choose to put the ruler so
that one end of it (or a chosen scale mark) lines up as closely as you can
get it to one end of the bar.  you then judge the length by looking at the
other end, which falls between 123 and 124 on the scale.  In this case, it
falls somewhere approximately half-way between the marks, and therefore you
can quote the measurement as 123.5 +/-0.5cm.  The lecturer bloke was adamant
that you'd quote it as 123 +/-1cm.  If the reading was obviously a lot
nearer to 123 than to 124, you'd quote 123.0+/-0.5cm.  You can argue that
you have an error at both ends of the measurement but for the vast majority
of measurements, you wouldn't do that, you'd move the scale and reduce the
error at the starting end to a minimum.  Even if you can't actually do that,
for almost all scales, it's possible to judge to the nearest half-division
by eye.
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
"You praise the firm restraint with which they write -_
I'm with you there, of course:  They use the snaffle and the bit
alright, but where's the bloody horse? - Roy Campbell (1902-1957)

Lee_D - 19 May 2006 13:35 GMT
Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> the motorway posts have numbers on 'em too - you could pick a
> suitable bit of motorway driving, hit the trip meter as you pass a
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> you can't actually do that, for almost all scales, it's possible to
> judge to the nearest half-division by eye.

I'll do some digging here but basically those vehicles we use are sent away
and come back with a calibrated Speedo and certificate, theres also a
sticker and serial number on the dash.
We then run checks on the vehicle either weekly or certainly prior to any
operation to target hot spot areas. These boil down to driving a measured
mile (marked on various road surface in the county with a white rectangle in
staffs - usually Dual carriageways, not round circle markers though they are
just used for VASCAR) at 60mph against a stop watch. Also running through
the laser at both 30 and 60mph to then check against laser and vehicle. The
lasers are seperately calibrated and tested.

I'll find out te address for you.

Lee
Larry - 20 May 2006 21:15 GMT
Not that I believe a word of that, its like those speed warning signs, you
have to take into account the curvature of the earth the tides, the
influence of cosmic rays, the density of rubber, the astrological alignment
and whether you were driving along a ley line or not.

You'll be telling me next they have solved the problem of longitude and
there is no bermuda triangle :)

Signature

Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

> Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> uttered summat worrerz
> funny about:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Lee
Larry - 20 May 2006 21:07 GMT
I walked a measured mile, and it took me 14 and a half minutes, and then I
set my pedometer by it, and discovered more recently I had covered a mile in
12 minutes and that was not a straight mile downhill like the one I used for
calibration either and included crossing roads wierd to say the least

I walk with a cane and a painful back and all

Signature

Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

> "Measured miles" used to exist near most police forces traffic HQs for
> checking their speedos etc. The one I used to know about, on the A69
> Newcastle side of Hexham, disappeared a couple of years ago though.
>
> Failing that, marker post on Motorways are 100m apart. You do the maths
> for miles and how many you need to pass in how long for a given speed.
Richard Brookman - 20 May 2006 21:35 GMT
|| <snip> I had
|| covered a mile in 12 minutes

A mile in 12 minutes?  That's *jogging*.

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