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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / May 2006

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Gas Guzzling 4x4's.....

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TonyB - 24 May 2006 18:39 GMT
Just got back from a trip to Aberdeen from Norfolk in the trusty 200 Tdi.
All the way up on one tankful at 75 mph, that's 510 miles. Average 34 mpg.
On the way back I kept it to 55 on A roads and 60 on dual carriageways but
we did a lot of town work in Edinburgh. The average was 35.8 mpg. I'm well
chuffed with that seeing as she's 15 years old and has 230k on the clock!

TonyB
Ian Rawlings - 24 May 2006 18:58 GMT
> The average was 35.8 mpg.

A chap I know has a 300TDi Discovery, he reckons he gets 40MPG out of
it without really trying, despite me insisting he's wrong.  I don't
see how he can manage that, especially since my Defender 300TDi seems
to average below 30MPG.

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DavidM - 24 May 2006 19:18 GMT
Ian Rawlings wrote, On 24/05/2006 18:58:

>> The average was 35.8 mpg.
>
> A chap I know has a 300TDi Discovery, he reckons he gets 40MPG out of
> it without really trying, despite me insisting he's wrong.  I don't
> see how he can manage that, especially since my Defender 300TDi seems
> to average below 30MPG.

Is there a difference in diff ratios, or transfer box gearing between
the Disco and Defender? Or maybe tyre treads?

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Badger - 24 May 2006 19:55 GMT
> Ian Rawlings wrote, On 24/05/2006 18:58:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Is there a difference in diff ratios, or transfer box gearing between the
> Disco and Defender? Or maybe tyre treads?

BIG difference in aerodynamics though, even though the frontal areas are
similar the disco cuts a much cleaner line through the air, especially at
speed.
Badger.
JD - 24 May 2006 21:14 GMT
> Ian Rawlings wrote, On 24/05/2006 18:58:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Is there a difference in diff ratios, or transfer box gearing between
> the Disco and Defender? Or maybe tyre treads?

Unless I am mistaken the Discovery is higher geared, and the aerodynamics
are different. But the major effect on mileage is driving technique plus
things like tyre type and pressure.
JD
Austin Shackles - 25 May 2006 10:20 GMT
>> Ian Rawlings wrote, On 24/05/2006 18:58:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>are different. But the major effect on mileage is driving technique plus
>things like tyre type and pressure.

The discovery is indeed higher geared and a bit better on aerodynamics.  But
running the one here on smooth-ish tyres and running 36 psi in the fronts
which then wear nicely, i.e. not too soft, it still doesn't average anywhere
near 40.  I'd reckon you might get 40 by driving steadily and carefully on a
run in flattish terrain, but not otherwise.
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Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
"The boys are dreaming wicked or of the bucking ranches of the night and
the jollyrodgered sea."  Dylan Thomas (1914 - 1953) Under milk wood

Austin Shackles - 25 May 2006 10:16 GMT
>Ian Rawlings wrote, On 24/05/2006 18:58:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Is there a difference in diff ratios, or transfer box gearing between
>the Disco and Defender? Or maybe tyre treads?

I doubt it's genuine.  he might be a very careful drive and coast down every
hill and so forth, but I don't reckon you'd get 40 mpg otherwise.

I keep accurate records over more than a thousand miles to get fuel figures,
and I've never yet seen anything like that from the 300 TDi disco.

It does partly depend on use: if you did only longish journeys on flattish
roads at 50 mph, you might get 40 mpg.

The only way to get accurate fuel figures is to start with a full tank,
drive, then fill the tank again and work out the economy based on the miles
covered.  You can and should for better accuracy extend this by keeping note
of all fuel put in and then finishing up with a full tank, this will reduce
below a statistical level the errors in tank fullness which are inevitable.
currently I'm doing this for the latest minibus, so far I've covered 1462
miles on 48.43 gallons, for an average mpg of 30.2; although the figure is
still fluctuating a bit as the mileage isn't really long enough - all I can
honestly say at the moment is that it's doing something between about 30 and
32.  which is probably accurate enough for most purposes, at that, but since
the data are easily acquired and processed I may as well continue.  In this
vehicle, the attitude of the vehicle when filling can make quite a
difference to the amount of fuel put in.

If anyone wants a copy of the spreadsheet I use to channel all the vehicle
running costs down into a single "pence per mile" figure, let me know.  It
covers everything that gets used up per mile, including service items,
tyres, fuel, etc.  Doesn't cover standing costs, viz. the things you have to
pay even if you never drive it but have it available for use, e.g.
insurance, tax, MOT.

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Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Satisfying:  Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

beamendsltd - 25 May 2006 14:04 GMT
> Ian Rawlings wrote, On 24/05/2006 18:58:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Is there a difference in diff ratios, or transfer box gearing between
> the Disco and Defender? Or maybe tyre treads?

Aerodynamics - it's as simple as that!

Richard
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Mother - 24 May 2006 19:40 GMT
>A chap I know has a 300TDi Discovery, he reckons he gets 40MPG out of
>it without really trying, despite me insisting he's wrong.  I don't
>see how he can manage that, especially since my Defender 300TDi seems
>to average below 30MPG.

Is his speedo in Kms?
Oily - 24 May 2006 22:05 GMT
> >A chap I know has a 300TDi Discovery, he reckons he gets 40MPG out of
> >it without really trying, despite me insisting he's wrong.  I don't
> >see how he can manage that, especially since my Defender 300TDi seems
> >to average below 30MPG.
>
> Is his speedo in Kms?

The transfer box gearing is quite a lot different, 5th on the Defender is
similar to 4th on the Disco.

Martin
Ian Rawlings - 24 May 2006 22:17 GMT
> The transfer box gearing is quite a lot different, 5th on the Defender is
> similar to 4th on the Disco.

OK, but the disco weighs more than my Defender, and while it has
higher gearing and marginally better aerodynamics, an extra 10MPG is
hard to credit.

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TonyB - 24 May 2006 22:23 GMT
> The transfer box gearing is quite a lot different, 5th on the Defender is
> similar to 4th on the Disco.

Aha.
I've got Pirelli Scorpions on the front at 28 psi. I was driving gently and
not accelerating hard either.
We were two up, with only a little luggage. The fuel pump is turned up front
standard settings but not so much that it smokes on acceleration. The engine
is old and very well worn in so internal resistance may be lower.  Just in
case my maths isn't up to much the exact figure was 537 miles on 68 litres,
the mileage was confirmed by gps, being within a couple of miles on the
odometer.

TonyB
EMB - 24 May 2006 22:54 GMT
> Aha.
> I've got Pirelli Scorpions on the front at 28 psi. I was driving gently and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the mileage was confirmed by gps, being within a couple of miles on the
> odometer.

Yep - your maths looks correct to me - 35.85 mpg.  Incidentally I'd try
running the front tyres at at least 32 psi - it'll probably handle
significantly better.

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EMB

Austin Shackles - 25 May 2006 10:22 GMT
>> The transfer box gearing is quite a lot different, 5th on the Defender is
>> similar to 4th on the Disco.
>
>Aha.
>I've got Pirelli Scorpions on the front at 28 psi. I was driving gently and
>not accelerating hard either.

If your front tyres wear on the edges, then you can put more air in 'em.
Running 235/70R16 GT+4's here at the moment, and they look quite nice at 36
psi.  28 makes 'em definitely look soft.

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Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
"The boys are dreaming wicked or of the bucking ranches of the night and
the jollyrodgered sea."  Dylan Thomas (1914 - 1953) Under milk wood

Ian Rawlings - 24 May 2006 22:15 GMT
> Is his speedo in Kms?

Nope, checked that.  My defender has a Fearns intercooler upgrade, but
I wouldn't have thought it makes much difference, and I have a light
right foot.  My defender also has a rag top although with all the
recovery gear I have in the back (or had) I'd have thought any weight
advantage over a normal defender is lost.

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Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Jack - 25 May 2006 01:01 GMT
> Just got back from a trip to Aberdeen from Norfolk in the trusty 200 Tdi.
> All the way up on one tankful at 75 mph, that's 510 miles. Average 34 mpg.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> TonyB

TonyB:

Your lucky. My petrol 96 Disco with a Detroit locker in the rear and a
Detroit Tru-trac in the front does 10.5 MPG City and 11.5 - 12.0 MPG highway
along with an OME heavy duty suspension given a mild lift.

Jack
icky - 25 May 2006 07:22 GMT
>> Just got back from a trip to Aberdeen from Norfolk in the trusty 200 Tdi.
>> All the way up on one tankful at 75 mph, that's 510 miles. Average 34
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Jack

Since having my intercooler upgraded by allisport I have never been able to
get more than 27 mpg out of my 300tdi disco it averages around 24 round
town, goes well though. The 110 300tdi is averaging 27 mpg round town even
with a full bed stead type roofrack :-)

Icky
Nige - 25 May 2006 08:26 GMT
>> Just got back from a trip to Aberdeen from Norfolk in the trusty 200 Tdi.
>> All the way up on one tankful at 75 mph, that's 510 miles. Average 34 mpg.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Jack

US gallons though i suspect?
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Jack - 25 May 2006 16:09 GMT
>>> Just got back from a trip to Aberdeen from Norfolk in the trusty 200
>>> Tdi.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> US gallons though i suspect?

Yes, Nige, U.S. Gallons.
Austin Shackles - 25 May 2006 10:04 GMT
>Just got back from a trip to Aberdeen from Norfolk in the trusty 200 Tdi.
>All the way up on one tankful at 75 mph, that's 510 miles. Average 34 mpg.
>On the way back I kept it to 55 on A roads and 60 on dual carriageways but
>we did a lot of town work in Edinburgh. The average was 35.8 mpg. I'm well
>chuffed with that seeing as she's 15 years old and has 230k on the clock!

not bad going.  I doubt you can get much better without doing serious
"economy marathon" techniques.
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"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
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TonyB - 25 May 2006 15:36 GMT
> not bad going.  I doubt you can get much better without doing serious
> "economy marathon" techniques.

No, and I don't want to get silly about it. I will try your suggestion of
running the fronts at a higher pressure although they are wearing evenly so
far. A lighter wheel is always a nice feature! The Pirellis are
significantly harder than the Hankooks though and seem to slide a little
more easily in the wet. I don't want to exaggerate that trend! The Hankooks
didn't last as long as it looks like the Pirellis will do, but to be fair to
them the Hankooks were running on somewhat shot shockers.

TonyB
Matthew Maddock - 25 May 2006 16:00 GMT
> No, and I don't want to get silly about it. I will try your suggestion of
> running the fronts at a higher pressure although they are wearing evenly so
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> didn't last as long as it looks like the Pirellis will do, but to be fair to
> them the Hankooks were running on somewhat shot shockers.

On a similar subject, has anyone heard of filling your tyres with
Nitrogen?  My local tyre place is offering it for free with new
tyres if you bother to ask them.  The poster on the wall seems to
suggest a number of benefits - was going to ask them to do it (since
it was free!) but forgot when they put my tyres on.  Anyone tried it,
or got any opinions?

Matt
Austin Shackles - 25 May 2006 19:27 GMT
>> not bad going.  I doubt you can get much better without doing serious
>> "economy marathon" techniques.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>didn't last as long as it looks like the Pirellis will do, but to be fair to
>them the Hankooks were running on somewhat shot shockers.

which Pirellis?  I had STs on a disco, gripped the road nicely but wore out
fairly quick.  however, they're not the most expensive, either.
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Appearances:  You don't really need make-up.  Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.  
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

TonyB - 25 May 2006 22:11 GMT
> which Pirellis?  I had STs on a disco, gripped the road nicely but wore out
> fairly quick.  however, they're not the most expensive, either.

Ah, sorry, they're Scorpions.
TonyB
Austin Shackles - 25 May 2006 22:45 GMT
>> which Pirellis?  I had STs on a disco, gripped the road nicely but wore
>out
>> fairly quick.  however, they're not the most expensive, either.
>
>Ah, sorry, they're Scorpions.

yebbut, which ones... ST, AT, MT?

makes a bit of difference.  ST are 80% on-road, MT are 80% off.  AT are
50-50.
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Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young / In a world
of magnets and miracles / Our thoughts strayed constantly and without
boundary / The ringing of the Division bell had begun.  Pink Floyd (1994)

TonyB - 26 May 2006 22:41 GMT
> >> which Pirellis?  I had STs on a disco, gripped the road nicely but wore
> >out
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> makes a bit of difference.  ST are 80% on-road, MT are 80% off.  AT are
> 50-50.

Didn't know there were options available! They're AT's and I've pumped 'em
up a bit as suggested, ride is better, handling better and steering lighter.
Need to test the grip limits but that can wait.....

TonyB
Austin Shackles - 28 May 2006 21:04 GMT
>> >> which Pirellis?  I had STs on a disco, gripped the road nicely but wore
>> >out
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>up a bit as suggested, ride is better, handling better and steering lighter.
>Need to test the grip limits but that can wait.....

ST are nice road tyres and BiL swears by 'em on his classic rangie, reckons
they're good offroad for up and down the muddy fields, I imagine in really
thick mud they'd not be much good.
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Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
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as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8

Larry - 25 May 2006 19:58 GMT
I reckon gas is the least thing we have to worry about, I was listening to
Farming Today this morning and there was a Canadian geezer on there saying
that the worlds emergency food reserves are only good for 57 days, and as
time goes on that will get shorter with an increasing amount of land being
given over to the production of things like ..... bioethanol.

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Larry
Series 3 rust and holes

> Just got back from a trip to Aberdeen from Norfolk in the trusty 200 Tdi.
> All the way up on one tankful at 75 mph, that's 510 miles. Average 34 mpg.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> TonyB
 
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