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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / July 2006Don't suppose anyone wants a minibus?
Blatant plug... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290002687690  SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" George Orwell (1903 - 1950) Animal Farm > Blatant plug... "...but if you pay by paypal I will require an extra 3% to offset Paypal fees. This does NOT apply to the deposit - that can be paid by paypal and I'll pick up the fees. And don't tell me that Paypal don't charge, oh yes they do if you have a merchant account, as I do." Naughty, a surcharge for the use of PayPal etc is not allowed under eBay rules. "Sellers may not charge eBay buyers an additional fee for their use of ordinary forms of payment, including acceptance of cheques, money orders, electronic transfers or credit cards, except as described below. Such costs should be built into the price of the item." Full text: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >> Blatant plug... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Naughty, a surcharge for the use of PayPal etc is not allowed under eBay >rules. well, since eBay own Paypal (IIRC) they can stop bloody charging me then. I have to pay 3.4% on every penny I receive. How can I build that into the price of an auction, other than to charge *everyone* 3.4% extra? >"Sellers may not charge eBay buyers an additional fee for their use of >ordinary forms of payment, including acceptance of cheques, money orders, >electronic transfers or credit cards, except as described below. Such >costs should be built into the price of the item." I'm not charging them UNLESS they use Paypal, though... They're welcome to use cheques, cash, money orders, direct EFT to my account and suchlike... >Full text: > >http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html but I'll have a look, I had an idea that this might be the case, but if so it's a con - eBay are effectively blagging extra fees from us... SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right is to be none the less free than you were before." Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16 > well, since eBay own Paypal (IIRC) they can stop bloody charging me then. I > have to pay 3.4% on every penny I receive. How can I build that into the > price of an auction, other than to charge *everyone* 3.4% extra? > > I'm not charging them UNLESS they use Paypal, though... They're welcome to > use cheques, cash, money orders, direct EFT to my account and suchlike... On personal auctions I add a little bit onto postage to cover some of the cost, on my business auctions I offer a 3% discount to people paying by cash/cheque! I've tried Nochex and Pppay, but no-one ever pays using them so I gave up. In any event I find that I get higher final prices if I allow people to pay using Paypal so IMHO it is worth £3.40/£100 as I usually get that back in higher value bids - tho when you work out your Paypal charges over the year for your accounts it gets a bit scary! - not to mention my annual eBay bill!! In the grand scheme of things tho, it is a very cheap way to retail items. I do sympathise on a vehicle tho. If I sell a car I always put that I won't accept Paypal as a general rule, but might consider it if I come to some arrangement with the buyer. Not strictly breaking eBay rules, but allows the buyer to use PP if they are prepared to pay the charges! Matt P.S. Shame it is a minibus variety otherwise I'd be bidding! >> well, since eBay own Paypal (IIRC) they can stop bloody charging me >> then. I have to pay 3.4% on every penny I receive. How can I build [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > P.S. Shame it is a minibus variety otherwise I'd be bidding! AITI, Isn't a minibus commercial? so attracts VAT? Signature"He who says it cannot be done would be well advised not to interrupt her doing it." If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate The fiend of my fiend is my enema! > AITI, Isn't a minibus commercial? so attracts VAT? Depends if the seller is VAT registered or not. Matt >> Matt >> >> P.S. Shame it is a minibus variety otherwise I'd be bidding! you could always black the windows out... actually, you'll get a van a lot cheaper than a bus - the presence of all the seats and belts is what makes buses worth money. >AITI, Isn't a minibus commercial? so attracts VAT? I'm not registered, so effectively, the final price includes VAT. I'll relisting it with no paypal (see other post) and will make some oblique statement such as you say to get around the rules. Bet the b***ards pull it again, mind. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt" (confound the men who have made our remarks before us.) Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes] >Full text: > >http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html OK, I've modified it. and I've written to eBay (who now own Paypal) and complained. I've also found that I can't, once having listed it, remove the "pay by paypal" option from the listing, buggrem. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929) > and I've written to eBay (who now own Paypal) and complained. Not that it will make any difference. eBay is about making money for eBay and sod everyone else. As Mr Maddock says it is still a cheap way of accepting "credit/debit card" payments and for most things you can build the fees into the postage costs. I've also offered other means of electronic payment, nochex, fastpay (RIP) and BACS and likewise no one has ever used them. It's always cheque, cash in the post or PayPal. As a buyer I like PayPal, is quick and well integrated to eBay. As a seller I loath it... SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >> and I've written to eBay (who now own Paypal) and complained. > >Not that it will make any difference. eBay is about making money for eBay >and sod everyone else. and I wasted my time modifying the listing, an' all, cos bloody eBay pulled it anyway. I've sent 'em a rude email expressing my feelings about this. Sionce it alreasdy had bids, I wasn't able to alter the original description nor to alter the payment options. >As Mr Maddock says it is still a cheap way of accepting "credit/debit >card" payments and for most things you can build the fees into the >postage costs. yeah, I use it for just that reason, but the percentage fee on a transaction the size I envisage this motor could be in 3 figures, so sod 'em. >As a buyer I like PayPal, is quick and well integrated to eBay. As a >seller I loath it... If they put about 0.2% on every single paypal transaction it'd be a trivial sum and would be much fairer, and I bet overall they'd make more. As it is, us businesses are funding a free ride for everyone else. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849 > If they put about 0.2% on every single paypal transaction it'd be a > trivial sum and would be much fairer, and I bet overall they'd make > more. As it is, us businesses are funding a free ride for everyone > else. It's not just business it's anyone who wants to accept CC/DC payments. I'm a private seller, flogging off the household dross. It if I want people to be able to buy my dross by CC/DC, and most people do, I have to upgrade to a "Premier Account". I then get stung by the incoming fees. The real pisser is the fact that *all* incoming transactions attract a fee, even those funded by a PayPal balance, thus Paypal haven't had to pay a CC company fee for that money. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail > It's not just business it's anyone who wants to accept CC/DC payments. > I'm a private seller, flogging off the household dross. It if I want [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > fee, even those funded by a PayPal balance, thus Paypal haven't had to > pay a CC company fee for that money. Yes - they snuck that one in the back door - they didn't used to charge if it was from a Paypal account, even if you had a Premier a/c, but somewhere along the line they started doing so - what a scam! It's not like they aren't making enough money already is it?! Matt >> It's not just business it's anyone who wants to accept CC/DC payments. >> I'm a private seller, flogging off the household dross. It if I want [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >somewhere along the line they started doing so - what a scam! It's not >like they aren't making enough money already is it?! well, we all have to write to 'em and complain. I can't see what's wrong with a small (and I mean small - under 0.5%) charge on ALL paypal transactions. That would be fair and hit everyone equally and if it was small enough no-one would mind paying a few pence for the convenience factor. And eBay would make just as much out of it as they do charging one part of the Paypal system all the fees. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "It is a characteristic of the human mind to hate the man one has injured" Tacitus (c.55 - c.117) Agricola, 45 > I can't see what's wrong with a small (and I mean small - under 0.5%) > charge on ALL paypal transactions. That would be fair and hit everyone > equally ... That assumes that most Paypal accounts aren't Premier Accounts. I suspect that anybody who has sold more than a few things has a Premier Account, you can't take CC funded payments via Paypal if you don't. The vast majority of items on eBay have Paypal as an option and show the CC logos, (I think you can switch the CC logos off). > And eBay would make just as much out of it as they do charging one > part of the Paypal system all the fees. That one part is probably the majority of active accounts. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >> I can't see what's wrong with a small (and I mean small - under 0.5%) >> charge on ALL paypal transactions. That would be fair and hit everyone [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >That one part is probably the majority of active accounts. yeah, but the people doing most of the selling aren't the ones doing most of the buying, and it's the sellers that are getting charged. Buyers gain just as much convenience from Paypal as sellers do, but if you predominantly buy then you get a free ride, paid for by the sellers. It'd still be fairer if everyone paid a small amount rather than the sellers copping all of it. Granted, they're not daft, people who take a LOT of money get to pay a lower percentage. the smaller sellers are worst hit, like me, paying 3.4%, which is not excatly a trivial amount. On the things I sell regularly in my shop, it amounts to anything from about 3 to about 6 quid per sale, typically. Although in that case I could up the price to compensate. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton. > Buyers gain just as much convenience from Paypal as sellers do, but if > you predominantly buy then you get a free ride, paid for by the > sellers. You mean just like everyone who uses a CC to buy anything. I know that UK law allows a surcharge for CC payments but how many common retail outlets apply a surcharge? > the smaller sellers are worst hit, like me, paying 3.4%, which is not > excatly a trivial amount. So get a merchant account to accept CCs directly then you can legitmately charge extra for CC payments. I suspect you'd be hard pushed to get 3.4% for a low volume merchant account... > Although in that case I could up the price to compensate. Which is what business's do. So cash customers are the ones really get ripped off paying more than they should to cover the (non-existant) CC fees, though it could be argued that handling cash also has it's costs, security, trips to bank etc... SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail > > Buyers gain just as much convenience from Paypal as sellers do, but if > > you predominantly buy then you get a free ride, paid for by the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > fees, though it could be argued that handling cash also has it's costs, > security, trips to bank etc... I'd agrue that - going to the bank is an expensive business in time and money, plus the bank charges for paying in cash and cheques. Cards are, for an "average" transaction, no more, and probably less than other payments, particlarly as cash payments are a rapidly diminishing proportion of sales making the trip less and less "viable". I still wouldn't trust PayPal though - it'll be interesting to see how Google's new payment system works out. Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone? Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive >I'd agrue that - going to the bank is an expensive business in >time and money, plus the bank charges for paying in cash and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I still wouldn't trust PayPal though - it'll be interesting >to see how Google's new payment system works out. I suspect that Paypal is now big enough that it's bothered about its reputation. Like credit cards, it relies on enough people trusting it - if people don't trust it and use it then it makes no money. Thus, they have to be seen to act in the event of problems - it wouldn't take many vociferous pissed off ex-customers to make a dent in the profits... SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "There are three sorts of people in the world - those who can count, and those who can't" (Anon) > I suspect that Paypal is now big enough that it's bothered about its > reputation. Like credit cards, it relies on enough people trusting it - if > people don't trust it and use it then it makes no money. Thus, they have to > be seen to act in the event of problems - it wouldn't take many vociferous > pissed off ex-customers to make a dent in the profits... Have a search for "paypal" on the weber-net, you'll find a lot of pissed off ex-customers, both buyers and sellers.. Perhaps one day they'll change. Ebay used Billpoint years ago, realised how crap it was and then bought Paypal, who are creating the same kind of stink amongst buyers and sellers that Billpoint did. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! >> I'd agrue that - going to the bank is an expensive business in >> time and money, plus the bank charges for paying in cash and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > be seen to act in the event of problems - it wouldn't take many vociferous > pissed off ex-customers to make a dent in the profits... Bit like this you mean...http://www.paypalsucks.com/ (I particularly like the "PayPal Terrified" logo!) Has been going for years - I found it after someone tried to scam me by paying for a car using another users account. At the time PP offered absolutely no protection to the seller if the funds were fraudulent. I was lucky at the time in that I had to delay the guy coming to pick it up, and during the delay the fact that the payment was fraudulent was picked up. Matt >> Blatant plug... > ... > Naughty, a surcharge for the use of PayPal etc is not allowed under eBay > rules. ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank charges these days - so I thought. Would that mean that ebay/paypal/skype are being a trifle heavy-handed? SignatureWilliam Tasso 110 V8 > ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank > charges these days - so I thought. Read the help file link. It appears that is so for credit/debit card transactions but not for electronic money transfers. A CC/DC funded Paypal (or similar) transaction is apparently a electronic money transfer. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank >> charges these days - so I thought. > > Read the help file link. It appears that is so for credit/debit card > transactions but not for electronic money transfers. Odd - my bank charges a small fortune for electronic funds transfer, > A CC/DC funded > Paypal (or similar) transaction is apparently a electronic money > transfer. Where there's money, there's a sleazebag lining his pockets. Wonder if that's ever been tested. SignatureWilliam Tasso 110 V8 >>> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank >>> charges these days - so I thought. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Odd - my bank charges a small fortune for electronic funds transfer, We need to be clear about who is charging who here. There is nothing to stop a "money moving agency" charging for the transaction. What is stopped, apparently, is the seller passing charges for electronic money transfers, *as a surcharge*, onto the buyer. A seller can pass on, as a surcharge, the fees that they incur if they accept a CC/DC transation directly but only up to the amount they have been charged by the bank. > Wonder if that's ever been tested. Do you feel rich? Do you want take on eBays lawyers? SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >>>> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank >>>> charges these days - so I thought. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >accept a CC/DC transation directly but only up to the amount they have >been charged by the bank. yeah, and I was only asking for 3% whereas I have to pay 3.4%... and it's a royal con by eBay, who own Paypal. Just another way of swelling ebay's coffers... >> Wonder if that's ever been tested. > >Do you feel rich? Do you want take on eBays lawyers? nor me neither - it needs the americans to get together a class action, I reckon. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849 >> ok - but in the UK we are allowed to charge customers for the bank >> charges these days - so I thought. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Paypal (or similar) transaction is apparently a electronic money >transfer. yeah, which is a neat way of getting round it. We are allowed (and in ebay) to charge extra for CC payments, but only if you have a CC merchant account. they (dubiously, IMHO) class paypal among ordinary means of payment. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849 > they (dubiously, IMHO) class paypal among ordinary means of payment. Agreed, especially as Paypal do CC charge backs. Now if they didn't I wouldn't mind the fee so much as sort of "insurance". SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >> they (dubiously, IMHO) class paypal among ordinary means of payment. > >Agreed, especially as Paypal do CC charge backs. Now if they didn't I >wouldn't mind the fee so much as sort of "insurance". and especially as those charge-backs often seem to be based on nothing more than "the buyer asked us to"... Wouldn't sell anything substantial via Paypal. Missus has had a couple of charge-backs for "goods not delivered", despite them being shipped and without any form of investigation by paypal. Maybe lost in the post, or maybe the buyer just fancied a freebie... SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '03 Volvo V70 '06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck" > Wouldn't sell anything substantial via Paypal. Missus has had a > couple of charge-backs for "goods not delivered", despite them being > shipped and without any form of investigation by paypal. The T&C's of Paypal say you should use an online trackable method of delivery. I'd kick up one helluva stink if I got a charge back and had evidence that the item had been delivered. This is why I and my other half now send everything Recorded or Signed For. Buyers don't seem put off by the extra 70 odd p for Recorded, indeed I think some view it as a positive point. > Maybe lost in the post, or maybe the buyer just fancied a freebie... I think an awful lot of "freebie" goes on, with the PO picking up the tab. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail > I think an awful lot of "freebie" goes on, with the PO picking up the > tab. I suspect you may be right, but the seller has to collude in it too because it is the sender who puts the claim in, not the recipient. My wife picked up a RM claim form the other day for something that had gone missing she had sent, and the form has "eBay item" as a check box for the type of item that has gone missing now! Delivery companies profits must have gone through the roof with the explosion of Internet shopping, and more relevantly, eBay. Recorded delivery is always the best option, especially if they have paid via Paypal because Paypal will only accept that you have sent an item if they can track the parcel online (i.e. with your Recorded delivery reference number) in the event that someone claims you haven't sent it. Not even a proof of posting receipt is good enough for them, it must be on-line trackable. Speaking of which, did anyone hear the scam where people were sending empty envelopes by Recorded delivery just so they could give PP the tracking reference to prove that they had returned a "faulty" item to the seller? PP were just processing the claims without a second thought once they had the Rec. deliv. reference number. Matt > ... > Delivery companies > profits must have gone through the roof with the explosion of Internet > shopping, and more relevantly, eBay. Now, there's an industry that needs a shake up. It's got so bad with next-day deliveries that don't happen that I've taken to cross invoicing suppliers to claw back a service I haven't received. It's beginning to work - the odd complaint gets an apology - an invoice and follow-up gets attention, and often, action. SignatureWilliam Tasso 110 V8 > I suspect you may be right, but the seller has to collude in it too > because it is the sender who puts the claim in, not the recipient. "Collude" is a rather strong word. If you bought something from me and I sent it (with proof of posting but not trackable) and you say it hasn't arrived. Why should I take the hit, when I have entrusted the item to the PO for delivery together with insurance up to the value of 28ish quid? I suspect that the end result will be the withdrawal of the insurance for items not sent by a trackable method. > My wife picked up a RM claim form the other day for something that had > gone missing she had sent, and the form has "eBay item" as a check box > for the type of item that has gone missing now! I'm not surprised. I wonder if the PO are starting to track recipients for "lost" items... > Not even a proof of posting receipt is good enough for them, it must be > on-line trackable. Thats because looking at and handling bits of paper is expensive and requires people to be with the bits of paper. Online is cheap and can be done anywhere... > Speaking of which, did anyone hear the scam where people were > sending empty envelopes by Recorded delivery just so they could give > PP the tracking reference to prove that they had returned a "faulty" > item to the seller? Feckin'ell. I guess you could argue the toss with Paypal that no way could your "faulty" widget fit inside an envelope. Send a photo of the envelope with the recorded delivery sticker on it etc. But a lot of hassle, I guess you could insist that they return via a carrier that records the weight but then you'd get parcels of sand... B-) SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail > This is why I and my other > half now send everything Recorded or Signed For. as buyers, we send /all/ our ebay payments by recorded delivery > Buyers don't seem put > off by the extra 70 odd p for Recorded, indeed I think some view it as a > positive point. indeed it is. SignatureWilliam Tasso 110 V8 |
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