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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2006

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Loctite equivalents?

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Ian Rawlings - 24 Oct 2006 17:25 GMT
Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
metal glues or threadlock/nutlock.  Does anyone know what they are,
what their equivalents are or whether they're likely to be nutlock or
studlock?  I can find almost no information on them, particularly
strength, so don't know if they're supposed to lock nuts or studs.

Cheers to anyone with a 30-year-old loctite catalogue ;-)

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Austin Shackles - 24 Oct 2006 17:58 GMT
>Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
>and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Cheers to anyone with a 30-year-old loctite catalogue ;-)

what for?
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Ian Rawlings - 24 Oct 2006 18:47 GMT
> what for?

"Spring bolt -- axle journal"

"Steering bolt sleeve -- front wheel drive housing"

That's all the info I have ;-)

I can't even find the effing parts mentioned, the part numbers given
don't exist and their descriptions don't match anything I can find...

I believe they are high strength threadlocks, that's the assumption
under which I'm progressing, but these two are low priority given that
the bits they are used on don't appear to exist...  Bloody
krautwagon.  I've found the up-to-date equivalents of all the other
loctites I'm likely to need.

I can recommend Buck and Hickman for this kind of thing BTW, they've
been more helpful than most other sites;

http://bhinone.farnell.com/

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Austin Shackles - 25 Oct 2006 10:48 GMT
>> what for?
>
>"Spring bolt -- axle journal"
>
>"Steering bolt sleeve -- front wheel drive housing"

I'd tend to assume from experience that more or less any threadlock will do.
My experience of things that the "book" says should be loctited is that for
the most part they don't come undone in normal use.  Such things as brake
caliper bolts etc., which I've replaced in the past without thread lock,
have never come undone again.

There are a few occasions where the loctite is also providing a seal, where
a bolt goes into a water jacket on an engine, for example.
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Ian Rawlings - 25 Oct 2006 11:11 GMT
> I'd tend to assume from experience that more or less any threadlock will do.

That's my hope, although considering that I can't track down the
bloody parts it's supposed to be applied to, I'm still not sure that
it's a threadlock or bearing lock situation!  I'm baffled as to where
these bits are, their descriptions don't match anything on the truck
at all, and neither do the part numbers.

Thankfully the most important bits are all sorted though, just these
two obscure ones remain.

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GbH - 24 Oct 2006 18:15 GMT
> Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
> and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Cheers to anyone with a 30-year-old loctite catalogue ;-)

According to Google they seem both equivalent to HASA 711 from Hernon Industries.

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Ian Rawlings - 24 Oct 2006 18:52 GMT
> According to Google they seem both equivalent to HASA 711 from
> Hernon Industries.

Yep, I saw that one, it was one of the things that lead me to believe
they were both more or less equivalent and are high-strength
threadlocks or bearing fixers.  I was trying to find something from
loctite that matched, normally they phase one out and introduce an
equivalent.

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Dougal - 24 Oct 2006 18:21 GMT
> Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
> and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Cheers to anyone with a 30-year-old loctite catalogue ;-)

I should be able to find something at work tomorrow.
Ian Rawlings - 24 Oct 2006 18:52 GMT
> I should be able to find something at work tomorrow.

Thanks!

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Dougal - 25 Oct 2006 19:22 GMT
>> Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
>> and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I should be able to find something at work tomorrow.

OK - here it is. This follows a discussion with Loctite UK.

Loctite 307

A high strength structural adhesive used for bonding flat, uncoated
metallic surfaces. Normally used with an activator/primer.

Today's nearest - Loctite 326 used with Activator 7649(Activator N).

Loctite 636

This is a bit 'grey' still. The product was never used in the UK and
no datasheet has been found yet (still hopeful, however). Strongly
believed to be an early version of 638 with possibly a slightly longer
cure time. It's a high strength retaining compound.

Today's nearest - Loctite 638. If a longer cure time is needed (very
unlikely) use Loctite 640.

I've got a copy of the 307 datasheet as an Acrobat file. Unfortunately
its from a scan and is 1.7MB. The others I mention later are tiny in
comparison.

If you want that, Ian, or those for the suggestions from the current
range I can send them to you. Is that e-mail address usable?
Ian Rawlings - 25 Oct 2006 19:40 GMT
> Today's nearest - Loctite 326 used with Activator 7649(Activator N).
>
> Today's nearest - Loctite 638. If a longer cure time is needed (very
> unlikely) use Loctite 640.

Bleedin' marvellous, thanks muchly kind sir.

> If you want that, Ian, or those for the suggestions from the current
> range I can send them to you. Is that e-mail address usable?

The datasheets would be useful if you have the time to send them on,
just hit "reply to", I don't use invalid spamtraps, I just chuck the
email address after a year.  If it's the slightest bit of hassle for
you though then please don't bother, you've been enough help already.

Thanks again!  I'll file this away into my facts file.

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rads - 24 Oct 2006 18:33 GMT
>Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
>and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Cheers to anyone with a 30-year-old loctite catalogue ;-)

Not in the 20 year old catalogue I'm afraid.

Loctite tends to come in series.

6?? are cylindrical retainers (bearings on shafts etc). 638 is the
current high strength retainer.

3?? are structural adhesives, bomding flat things together. Nothing
30? in current range though.

What are you up to?

HTH

David
Ian Rawlings - 24 Oct 2006 18:59 GMT
> Loctite tends to come in series.

Thanks for that, useful info, I'll investigate further.

> What are you up to?

Rebuilding bits of pinzgauer, the front differential housing tore,
manufacturing defect from the look of it, the casing only looks a few
years old too.

The back of the manual has a 33-year-old list of loctite products that
are required and where they are needed, I needed about four of them
immediately so decided to try and track them all down at once.  The
two that I can't find aren't ones I need right now but I'll bet I'll
need them in a hurry on a sunday at some point.

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Gary G Jones - 24 Oct 2006 18:55 GMT
Apparently according to http://www.ifisrl.it/hernon/cross.htm
they are both the same and are  "Loctite SpeedBonder 307/636"
the equivalent by "hernon" is Hernon HASA 711
hope this is off some help

GGJ

> Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
> and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Cheers to anyone with a 30-year-old loctite catalogue ;-)
Ian Rawlings - 24 Oct 2006 19:01 GMT
> Apparently according to http://www.ifisrl.it/hernon/cross.htm
> they are both the same and are  "Loctite SpeedBonder 307/636"
> the equivalent by "hernon" is Hernon HASA 711
> hope this is off some help

Yep, spotted that one, cheers.  I spent a few hours googling and was
surprised that I couldn't find much that was really concrete.

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Oily - 24 Oct 2006 19:25 GMT
> > Apparently according to http://www.ifisrl.it/hernon/cross.htm
> > they are both the same and are  "Loctite SpeedBonder 307/636"
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Yep, spotted that one, cheers.  I spent a few hours googling and was
> surprised that I couldn't find much that was really concrete.

Not seen that one listed but it must set *really* hard then??  ;-)

Martin
Ian Rawlings - 24 Oct 2006 19:34 GMT
>> Yep, spotted that one, cheers.  I spent a few hours googling and was
>> surprised that I couldn't find much that was really concrete.
>
> Not seen that one listed but it must set *really* hard then??  ;-)

I had a sense of foreboding when I typed that, I didn't think I'd be
disappointed!  Perhaps I've been sniffing too much loctite.

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EMB - 24 Oct 2006 20:49 GMT
> Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
> and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Cheers to anyone with a 30-year-old loctite catalogue ;-)

IIRC the 3xx series are bonding agents whilst the 6xx series are
retaining compounds.

307 is still listed/described here http://www.alligator.nl/lc.htm

The best I can offer you on 636 is that a retired engineer mate of mine
says that from memory it was a medium strength retaining compound and
that he'd use 609 in it's place.

http://68.72.74.108/PRODUCTS/609.htm

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EMB

Ian Rawlings - 24 Oct 2006 21:51 GMT
> The best I can offer you on 636 is that a retired engineer mate of mine
> says that from memory it was a medium strength retaining compound and
> that he'd use 609 in it's place.

Cheers for all of that, I'll check out the links tomorrow.

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Oily - 24 Oct 2006 23:32 GMT
> > Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
> > and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> IIRC the 3xx series are bonding agents whilst the 6xx series are
> retaining compounds.

Yes, 6xx series definitely retaining compound. Is it the green coloured
stuff? 'cos if it is and you get it wrong you'll have a hell of a job to get
it off again.

Martin

> 307 is still listed/described here http://www.alligator.nl/lc.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> http://68.72.74.108/PRODUCTS/609.htm
EMB - 25 Oct 2006 00:17 GMT
> Yes, 6xx series definitely retaining compound. Is it the green coloured
> stuff? 'cos if it is and you get it wrong you'll have a hell of a job to get
> it off again.

The 609 I mentioned is not too tough - it's closer to a 'bearing fit'
type of compound than a retaining compound.  It's never too much trouble
to remove (famous last words).

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EMB

Oily - 25 Oct 2006 00:25 GMT
> > Yes, 6xx series definitely retaining compound. Is it the green coloured
> > stuff? 'cos if it is and you get it wrong you'll have a hell of a job to get
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> type of compound than a retaining compound.  It's never too much trouble
> to remove (famous last words).

He he...     You said it!

Martin
beamendsltd - 25 Oct 2006 08:30 GMT
> Wotcher all, not strictly landy, but I have a need for "loctite 636"
> and/or "loctite 307", I don't know what they are but they appear to be
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Cheers to anyone with a 30-year-old loctite catalogue ;-)

The Genuine Parts thread lock is Loctite 243, which has "threadlock"
and "nutlock" on the pot. Loctite do have site with all the specs
on...... sowewhere. I think it may be on the Henkel site (they
own all these sorts of companies it seems).

Richard
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Ian Rawlings - 25 Oct 2006 09:26 GMT
> The Genuine Parts thread lock is Loctite 243, which has "threadlock"
> and "nutlock" on the pot. Loctite do have site with all the specs
> on...... sowewhere. I think it may be on the Henkel site (they
> own all these sorts of companies it seems).

Yep, but if the part in question was recommended to have 243 on it,
they'd have said so in the manual, there's a big list of other parts
that need 243 and the parts in question are explicitly not in that
list.  The various loctites have some quite important differences,
e.g. different strengths, different gap tolerances, temperature ranges
etc etc but I don't know how important these are in this situation.
It would help enormously if I knew what the parts were in the first
place ;-)

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