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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2006Assembly in China / End of Lode Lane
A draft discussion document is reportedly floating around concerning whether there's merit in developing a Chinese assembly plant for new Land Rover products, including Freelander[1] and Range Rover Sport. This follows further unconfirmed reports that plans to pull out of Solihull in 2012 are back on the table. The site at Lode Lane together with associated land nearby is thought to be worth in the region of 500 Million Pounds[2] if planning consent is granted for 'development'. [1] The new Freelander is not assembled in Solihull. [2] This is the figure that was quoted in May 2005. > A draft discussion document is reportedly floating around concerning > whether there's merit in developing a Chinese assembly plant for new [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > [1] The new Freelander is not assembled in Solihull. > [2] This is the figure that was quoted in May 2005. Isn't that the ultimate sacrilege? I spent hours there once whinging about my then new Series 2a losing oil at the rate of a pint a week from the main box. They fixed it while I waited in the end :)  SignatureKaren If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.' Catherine Aird > > A draft discussion document is reportedly floating around concerning > > whether there's merit in developing a Chinese assembly plant for new [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > Isn't that the ultimate sacrilege? It is - I'm surprised that they would consider closing Solihull after the ill-will genetared towards Jaguar by closing Browns Lane. The marketing men & bean counters will doubtless have very good reasons on paper for saying where it's made doesn't matter (and they'd probably be right for Freelander), but balance sheets don't take into account brand image (the real image, not the marketing mens glossy brochure version) and, let's face it, the Made In England bit. Just look at the meltdown at Wedgewood after they moved production overseas, and the consequent complete collapse of the entire Stoke pottery industry. <snip> Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive > In message > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Richard Seems ona news this am, new freeloader is going to Hailwood. SignatureDon't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it! If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate The fiend of my fiend is my enema! > > In message > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Seems ona news this am, new freeloader is going to Hailwood. Unless I've missed something (I have to admit "news" regarding Freelanders doesn't leap out at me!), it's been made there for some time. Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive >>> In message >>> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Richard Sorry it was NEWs to me. SignatureDon't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it! If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate The fiend of my fiend is my enema! I was not aware of the collaspe of wedgewood, however I remember seeing a BBC program, forgot the name of it but the Main Spanner was meant to spend a week mixing it with the plebs. Anyway at that stage they were talking about mechanisation and how it was going to imporove things. As you say, somtimes image is not all about beancounting. That said, there is not doubt that LR need to jack up quality. I spoke to a chap at the airport the other day who has just bought a LandCruiser Pickup which costs a massive ZAR320 000 here in South Africa. He said that after five LR's in five years, each of them needing major repairs (like new gearboxes) and suffering even bigger depreciation he finally thought that he had given them enough of an oppertunity to prove themselves. I just wish they could retain their core values while enjoying toyota levels of reliability and resale values. Regards Stephen >> > A draft discussion document is reportedly floating around concerning >> > whether there's merit in developing a Chinese assembly plant for new [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Richard >That said, there is not doubt that LR need to jack up quality. not sure that moving production to China is gonna do much for the quality. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "There are three sorts of people in the world - those who can count, and those who can't" (Anon) >> That said, there is not doubt that LR need to jack up quality. > > not sure that moving production to China is gonna do much for the > quality. What, you mean it might improve?? SignatureTa! Nige Subaru WRX (54) Land Rover Turbo Diesel 110 (G) KTM 520 SX (2001) Kawasaki ZZR 1100 (1995) >>> That said, there is not doubt that LR need to jack up quality. >> >> not sure that moving production to China is gonna do much for the >> quality. > > What, you mean it might improve?? Think of the sales potential two hours after you bought one you would fancy another. I reckon China is a smoke screen if you want to be efficient you build them close to your major market so its either US or Cheshire where all the minted footballers live. Derek >I reckon China is a smoke screen if you want to be efficient you >build them close to your major market A very large number of the new Freelanders are destined for China. They have the fastest growing economy in the history of our planet. A quote from Newsnight last night was that if, in the UK we ALL stopped using our cars to prevent global warming, the growth in China in just 86 days alone would match the reduction we would have achieved by our sacrifice. The real smokescreen is the politically inspired, media hyped notion that _our_ so called 'gas guzzlers' are responsible for global warming. Another useless statistic being that I could drive Grumble around the circumference of the globe and not pollute the planet anywhere near as much as flying to Paris and back for a romantic weekend. > The real smokescreen is the politically inspired, media hyped notion > that _our_ so called 'gas guzzlers' are responsible for global > warming. Well, in order for politicians and media to keep their jobs, there has to be a continuous stream of problems to scare us with and solutions to soothe us with. Neither need to be real, we can have real problems with fake solutions, as long as those solutions don't have politically damaging victims, and let's face it, we're not. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! On Thursday, in article <vur0k25tcbe9t8n5frpd2ojuq0pv7722s4@4ax.com> > Another useless statistic being that I could drive Grumble around the > circumference of the globe and not pollute the planet anywhere near as > much as flying to Paris and back for a romantic weekend. Airliners are, passenger-mile for passenger-mile, more than competitive on long flights. London-Paris is dragged down by the time spent stooging around in the aviation equivalent of urban traffic. Ships and trains can still beat them. The aircraft does burn more fuel per mile than a car. It also carries more people. SignatureDavid G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger. "I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six." > The aircraft does burn more fuel per mile than a car. It also carries > more people. ISTR a 747's miles per gallon per passenger when full being something like 70 MPG/P, which drops obviously when it's not full. Smaller planes are much less efficient, as the larger planes carry proportionally more passengers than the extra fuel used over smaller planes. A car like mine that does 47MPG, if full, does about 180MPG/P, or 90MPG/P if two people are in it which is more likely for most people. A 101, if carrying two people and a dog, would do probably about 40 MPG/P. A car however puts the pollution out at ground level, I don't know the details but the biggest issue with planes is supposed to be that they pump their pollution out in a location that is much more damaging from a global warming perspective although I can't recall why. Ages ago when people started flapping on about this issue, it was the location of the pollution and the damage it was doing that was the big issue, not the fuel efficiency of the plane. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > On Thursday, in article > <vur0k25tcbe9t8n5frpd2ojuq0pv7722s4@4ax.com> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The aircraft does burn more fuel per mile than a car. It also carries > more people. Juggling statistics again. I reckon per person though an aircraft chucks out a lot more sh1t than a car in burnt and unburnt fuel. Martin > Juggling statistics again. I reckon per person though an aircraft chucks > out a lot more sh1t than a car in burnt and unburnt fuel. How do you make that out, from 70 MPG/P ? Steve > > Juggling statistics again. I reckon per person though an aircraft chucks > > out a lot more sh1t than a car in burnt and unburnt fuel. > > How do you make that out, from 70 MPG/P ? > > Steve Against the car with four people on board at 180 MPG/P?? Martin >> How do you make that out, from 70 MPG/P ? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Martin Now what is the average MPG/P for a car ? Its very, very rare that they travel full. Aircraft on the other hand always try to travel full. I would guess that most cars average around the 40-50 MPG/P and aircraft around the same level, or slightly better. Steve >Now what is the average MPG/P for a car ? Its very, very rare that they >travel full. Aircraft on the other hand always try to travel full. try being the operative word. They also operate to fairly strictly defined schedules. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right is to be none the less free than you were before." Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16 > try being the operative word. They also operate to fairly strictly defined > schedules. According to the airlines themselves, on average they do about 65MPG/P and run at 70% utilisation, so crank those figures down by about 10% ;-) SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > > try being the operative word. They also operate to fairly strictly defined > > schedules. > > According to the airlines themselves, on average they do about 65MPG/P > and run at 70% utilisation, so crank those figures down by about 10% > ;-) They are probably trying to justify and mask their wastage of fossil fuels as they apparently dump loads when they come in to land, they certainly seem to use a lot when taking off. When we are eventually forced off the road unless we use hybrid or electric 4x4s, I hope they make them use N.O.S C5 motors behind the props or ground them forever. :-) Martin > They are probably trying to justify and mask their wastage of fossil fuels > as they apparently dump loads when they come in to land, If they did, wouldn't the approaches to, say, Heathrow be rather slippery ? Jet fuel is particularly not noted for its volatility, so if they did it , we'd have known by now. AFAIK fuel dumping is an emergency measure only. Steve >> They are probably trying to justify and mask their wastage of fossil fuels >> as they apparently dump loads when they come in to land, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Steve and not to be done over populated areas IIRC, ie over the sea.... SignatureSimon Isaacs "Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote" George Jean Nathan (1882-1955) ROT13 me.... > According to the airlines themselves, on average they do about 65MPG/P > and run at 70% utilisation, so crank those figures down by about 10% > ;-) If those figures are true then a plane carrying say 150 people is doing the same MPG as a small diesel car with 3-4 people, which sort of backs their claims that air travel is nothing like as polluting as car travel, mile for mile. Greg Loosely on the same subject, those who claim buses are the future of transport don't know the figures. At a recent meeting I attended with the Council's head of transport about a new park and ride scheme they're starting in Scarborough, he had to admit that the modern buses they were going to use do a whole 4MPG, yes I did say four!. Considering a modern small Diesel car does about 15 times that, the buses need to be carrying an average of about 50 people just to break even on the pollution produced. In reality they aren't going to achieve that so one of the main reasons for the scheme, reducing pollution, just doesn't hold water. Greg > Loosely on the same subject, those who claim buses are the future of > transport don't know the figures. At a recent meeting I attended with the > Council's head of transport about a new park and ride scheme they're > starting in Scarborough, he had to admit that the modern buses they were > going to use do a whole 4MPG, yes I did say four!. Time for them to change bus manufacturers. I track fleet fuel usage for one of my clients - even his trucks running at 44 tonnes with 600PS engines are returning better than 5.4MPG, and that's in NZ where we have a lot of hills. SignatureEMB >> Loosely on the same subject, those who claim buses are the future of >> transport don't know the figures. At a recent meeting I attended with the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >engines are returning better than 5.4MPG, and that's in NZ where we have >a lot of hills. buses do stop-start urban mileage though, and spend a lot of time idling going nowhere. But 4mpg sounds a bit crap, even so. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right is to be none the less free than you were before." Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16 "Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message >But 4mpg sounds a bit crap, even so. It amazed me so I queried it. Frankly the whole park and ride scheme has more to do with letting the council sell land to Travelodge and getting huge government grants than it's stated aims or reducing pollution and congestion, the whole capacity of the scheme is only 10% of the daily intake of tourists so isn't going to significantly impact the congestion problems either. Greg > "Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > either. > Greg It'll make them worse - unless there a full (i.e. not intermittent) bus lanes. Without conductors, busses block the roads while passengers are getting on, making things worse rather than better! Obviously, if these park and ride busses don't stop on the way it won't have that effect. I suspect your are right about the real motive though, it's funny how these schemes always involve selling prime land, and yet the Council Tax never comes down, and the Chief Exceutive gets a new office, or the planning sub-comitte suddenly realy must go to Prague for the weekend to research something or other (expenses paid). I'd be a lot more convinced if the money raised/saved was actually accounted for rather than just disppearing into the general pot, i.e. "sold land at <address>" = "built social housing/hospice/etc". Doubtless the council will say it's far too complicated to do that, but then what are the accountants doing if they can't - now there's an opportunity for savings! Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive > It'll make them worse - unless there a full (i.e. not intermittent) > bus lanes. Only one bus every ten minute using each bus lane is definitely not going to keep it full, so yes I would agree, the automatic lights giving them priority are also going to upset the whole traffic management in the town. But hey, what do we know!. They're also building a bypass of Reighton on the main road from Scarborough to Brid, nothing wrong with that, except that they are absolutely adamant that it only needs round abouts at the two ends and not where the main road from my village, Hunmanby, joins into it. So we have to emerge at a T junction near the end of a long straight run where cars will easily reach 80, it seems it will take a few deaths before they 'discover' the blindingly obvious and have to spend far more building the roundabout after the event than they would now. Unofficially I've been told the simple truth, there isn't enough money in the pot for three round abouts so it's either this or nothing, but money will be found after enough people have died to clock up enough points to get the junction changed, that's the ludicrous way government works in this country. Greg > ...... after enough people have died to clock up > enough points to get the junction changed Ah! .... It'll qualify for speed cameras. More income. >> ...... after enough people have died to clock up >> enough points to get the junction changed > > Ah! .... It'll qualify for speed cameras. More income. No speed cameras in North Yorkshire. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. >>>...... after enough people have died to clock up >>>enough points to get the junction changed >> >>Ah! .... It'll qualify for speed cameras. More income. > > No speed cameras in North Yorkshire. Is that true? I thought that Durham was the only English County without fixed speed cameras. > > No speed cameras in North Yorkshire. > > Is that true? I thought that Durham was the only English County > without fixed speed cameras. There aren't any fixed ones around here but the plod do have speed guns. Greg > > Loosely on the same subject, those who claim buses are the future of > > transport don't know the figures. At a recent meeting I attended with the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > engines are returning better than 5.4MPG, and that's in NZ where we have > a lot of hills. I can't verify the figures, but bear in mind that shuttle buses are driving in town traffic with lots of stops and starts, despite all the bus lanes and automatic traffic lights they intend to install, they sit at stops for a significant proportion of the route which is also hilly. Lorries, on the other hand, spend most of their time on the open road. I suppose it's fairer to compare the buses MPG with a cars urban cycle MPG, but still the cars the buses replace wouldn't be sitting at bus stops either they'd be going straight to a park and stopping. Greg On Saturday, in article <ehulm8$q6a$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> > > Loosely on the same subject, those who claim buses are the future of > > transport don't know the figures. At a recent meeting I attended with the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > engines are returning better than 5.4MPG, and that's in NZ where we have > a lot of hills. A bus shouldn't be that heavy, but it is likely to be running in something like urban cycle, and you need to use that sort of figure for the cars when you make the comparison. I think that's a mistake that gets made a lot, and sometimes it's made the other way to favour the bus solution. It's also worth remembering that there are congestion effects driven by the number of vehicles. You need the same road-space between any two vehicles, whether bus or Smart, but you need more Smarts. I don't think there's a single correct answer, but you do have to think carefully about how you're asking the question. And some people just go for the emotional and obvious: how many of them bother to measure one of those "huge" Land Rovers? SignatureDavid G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger. "I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six." > And some people just go for the emotional and obvious: how many of > them bother to measure one of those "huge" Land Rovers? Well, my 110 is longer than my Audi A4, by a whole 1.3cm. Takes up loads more road space! The landy's shorter and narrower than my old Lotus, which people describe as "tiny"... SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! >> And some people just go for the emotional and obvious: how many of >> them bother to measure one of those "huge" Land Rovers? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The landy's shorter and narrower than my old Lotus, which people describe as >"tiny"... Which lotus? Europa? SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25 >> The landy's shorter and narrower than my old Lotus, which people describe as >> "tiny"... > > Which lotus? Europa? No, a 1989 Esprit SE, or it would be if I put the damned thing back together. I stripped and rebuilt the engine, just need to put the shot blasted and painted tanks back in, redo the pipework and some of the electrics, put the last few bits of engine back together and get the engine back in. That should take me about another 3 years given my rate of work. Also, according to google, the landy *is* longer than the esprit by about 20cm, not so sure about that but it's in no state to be measured again, I measured it about 3 years ago when I was house hunting. It's certainly wider though, the landy is about 7 cm narrower than the esprit, and the pinz is about 3cm narrower than the landy but about 30cm longer. At the moment, the pinz is about 10cm shorter than usual due to me removing the front chassis members, differential and axle. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > Loosely on the same subject, those who claim buses are the future of > transport don't know the figures. At a recent meeting I attended with the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the > scheme, reducing pollution, just doesn't hold water. Well, that and the fact that half of Scarborough's income comes from parking fees... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > Well, that and the fact that half of Scarborough's income comes from > parking fees... Oh don't get me started!, they say the park and ride car parks will be free with subsidised bus fares, but when pushed admit they will be "forced" to put up all the parking fees in town "significantly" to persuade people to use the park and rides, so the 90% of visitors who can't get into the undersized park and rides and the 100% of shoppers who don't want to cart their purchases on shuttle buses will have to pay lots more, you can just see the pound signs in the eyes. It's a very contentious issue and they know it, I had a 'disagreement with the County Councillor who holds the traffic portfolio at the last council meeting as he insisted the rises would "not be significant if he had anything to do with it", if they're not then by definition the increases won't persuade people to use the scheme so are unjustified? 8-). Greg >> Well, that and the fact that half of Scarborough's income comes from >> parking fees... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > definition the increases won't persuade people to use the scheme so are > unjustified? 8-). Well up to a year or so ago I had a Scarborough 'Tradesman's Parking permit' which makes most of the mess go away and I notice that the council offices car parks are always full on Saturdays when nobody's working, so the people who make the decisions probably never pay for parking in Scarborough... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > Well up to a year or so ago I had a Scarborough 'Tradesman's Parking permit' > which makes most of the mess go away and I notice that the council offices > car parks are always full on Saturdays when nobody's working, so the people > who make the decisions probably never pay for parking in Scarborough... Funnily enough they get all defensive when you point that out 8-) Greg >> Well up to a year or so ago I had a Scarborough 'Tradesman's Parking > permit' [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Funnily enough they get all defensive when you point that out 8-) On the other hand anyone prepared to work for Scarborough Council probably considers free parking for going shopping a fair recompense for having to put up with the jokes. No work yet down at The Corner I notice :-) I wonder what's gone wrong there... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > No work yet down at The Corner I notice :-) > > I wonder what's gone wrong there... Lord knows, I used to live very near there so took notice of it all but since moving out of town I really can't be bothered with the fiasco. I strongly suspect the final outcome will be nothing more than a large number of houses all over the area and no facilities for tourism at all, since from the developers point of view that makes the most profit. I will be very surprised if all the claims of building nice new tourist facilities, car parks etc are anything more than a ploy. Greg >> No work yet down at The Corner I notice :-) >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > surprised if all the claims of building nice new tourist facilities, car > parks etc are anything more than a ploy. Well you're not the only one to think that. However, who's going to buy a time-share in Scarborough for Febuary? I have a nasty suspicion that the funding has fallen through... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > However, who's going to buy a time-share in Scarborough for Febuary? > > I have a nasty suspicion that the funding has fallen through... Well I've always been puzzled where all the buyers for the £200k apartments are supposed to come from, not to mention the hundreds of cheaper places they obviously intend to build, there's a lot of new housing in this area and a heck of a lot more on the drawing board. To be honest I wouldn't want to buy into the north bay area as the place has gone right down, that's one reason I moved out. Greg >> However, who's going to buy a time-share in Scarborough for Febuary? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > one > reason I moved out. Well the whole scheme originally revolved around the idea that they were going to build a 'super casino' there and everyone's houses would rocket in value. And the high rollers from Leeds :-) would buy time shares in the off season for a week's gambling... However it didn't and so they won't... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > Well the whole scheme originally revolved around the idea that they were > going to build a 'super casino' there and everyone's houses would rocket in > value. And the high rollers from Leeds :-) would buy time shares in the off > season for a week's gambling... > > However it didn't and so they won't... They build the casino elsewhere, and unbelievably want to build another on the sea front, just call us the Las Vegas of Yorkshire 8-). Greg >> Well the whole scheme originally revolved around the idea that they were >> going to build a 'super casino' there and everyone's houses would rocket [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > They build the casino elsewhere, and unbelievably want to build another on > the sea front, just call us the Las Vegas of Yorkshire 8-). As soon as the new casino opened the old one closed. Nobody wants to go to Scarborough for big time gambling when they can go to London. A real casino has cheap food and booze and gives its gamblers free coffee and snacks when they're playing. The casino in Scarborough is an expensive pub with gambling. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > As soon as the new casino opened the old one closed. Yes but they're talking about building yet another one, which certainly won't replace the one just opened. > Nobody wants to go to Scarborough for big time gambling when they can go to > London. Which is why I can't understand the idea of yet another one, it's the last thing we need. Greg >> As soon as the new casino opened the old one closed. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Which is why I can't understand the idea of yet another one, it's the last > thing we need. It is, as I said before, a big posh pub with the posibility of some gambling. An all cash business, full of pretty girls working for peanuts with loads of chances to impress your mates and you can prove you're not a crook, even if you are, because you've got a license. In that respect it's the classical seaside businessman's ideal business... SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. I saw an old daimler in our transport museum that claimed 12mpg so wheres the improvement gone ? Larry SignatureSeries 3 Rust and Holes > Loosely on the same subject, those who claim buses are the future of > transport don't know the figures. At a recent meeting I attended with the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Greg > If those figures are true then a plane carrying say 150 people is > doing the same MPG as a small diesel car with 3-4 people, which sort > of backs their claims that air travel is nothing like as polluting > as car travel, mile for mile. The big issue with air travel is supposed to be what they pump out and where they pump it, not how much the MPG figure is. I don't know the details though, I just remember that the fuss was not about MPG but they are supposed to be much more damaging for other reasons. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > The big issue with air travel is supposed to be what they pump out and > where they pump it, not how much the MPG figure is. I don't know the > details though, I just remember that the fuss was not about MPG but > they are supposed to be much more damaging for other reasons. Being a cynic I expect each side to claim the figures that support their case are the big issue 8-). The anti-air-travel brigade don't want it known that it produces far less pollution if 50 reps fly from Manchester to London in one plane than drive in 50 cars, they would rather point out that they would be better in one train, along with hundreds of other people, so flying must be the most evil thing in the universe!. Greg Yes but the average daily trip by aircraft is much much more than you can drive in a full day in a car. Larry SignatureSeries 3 Rust and Holes > Against the car with four people on board at 180 MPG/P?? > > Martin > >I reckon China is a smoke screen if you want to be efficient you > >build them close to your major market [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > circumference of the globe and not pollute the planet anywhere near as > much as flying to Paris and back for a romantic weekend. 'eer - thems facts, youm not allowed to use those! Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive >The real smokescreen is the politically inspired, media hyped notion >that _our_ so called 'gas guzzlers' are responsible for global [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >circumference of the globe and not pollute the planet anywhere near as >much as flying to Paris and back for a romantic weekend. You'd have to fit some kind of flotation devices first though. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8 > You'd have to fit some kind of flotation devices first though. Just pump the tyres up with helium and attach a flymo to the back, and take his rant directly to the air passengers! SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > I was not aware of the collaspe of wedgewood, however I remember seeing a > BBC program, forgot the name of it but the Main Spanner was meant to spend a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I just wish they could retain their core values while enjoying toyota levels > of reliability and resale values. That's very well put. Richard > Regards > Stephen [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > > > Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive "beamendsltd" wrote after> karen_oz wrote: >> > A draft discussion document is reportedly floating around concerning >> > whether there's merit in developing a Chinese assembly plant for new [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > moved production overseas, and the consequent complete collapse > of the entire Stoke pottery industry. I thought it was Royal Doulton that moved to China? Have Wegewood gone as well? SignatureRegards Bob H 17mls W. of London.UK > I thought it was Royal Doulton that moved to China? > Have Wegewood gone as well? All the major Stoke potteries have moved some of their production overseas. Royal Doulton is the only one of them to have shut down all its Stoke manufacturing operations. Wedgewood, Spode, Port Merrion and etc all still have factories in Stoke but on a much smaller scale, and, of course, the studio potteries' suppliers like Studiocraft are still there. SignatureWilliam Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. > "beamendsltd" wrote after> > karen_oz wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I thought it was Royal Doulton that moved to China? > Have Wegewood gone as well? Wedgewood move some/most bare plate production to Korea (might have been Malasia), re-importing them for decoration. As my mother observed (being something of a Wedgewood fan) "I can get cheaper Far Eastern plates in Tesco..." Royal Doulton have largely vanished, and lost the "Royal" it seems. Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive "beamendsltd" wrote >> >> > The marketing men & bean counters will doubtless have very good >> > reasons on paper for saying where it's made doesn't matter (and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Royal Doulton have largely vanished, and lost the "Royal" > it seems. What about our favourite, Royal Crown Derby? SignatureRegards Bob H 17mls W. of London.UK > "beamendsltd" wrote >> > >> > The marketing men & bean counters will doubtless have very good [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > What about our favourite, Royal Crown Derby? No idea, I'm affraid. I'm not a pottery fan, I just see the flat spaces where the potteries were, and the local paper with the latest "this'll sort it out" article that never mentions "hand made in England" which, as far as I can tell, is the only reason they sold anything for years! Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive "beamendsltd" wrote after"Bob Hobden" >> What about our favourite, Royal Crown Derby? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "hand made in England" which, as far as I can tell, is the only > reason they sold anything for years! Seems to be still where it always was thank goodness, that's since it moved from Chelsea 250 years ago. :-) http://www.royal-crown-derby.co.uk/ at least they are still doing factory tours there. In this country Doulton has gone from highly collectable stuff to zero with the move abroad and I understand old "Made in England" china of theirs is still in demand, mind you, I don't know if that is the same abroad. SignatureRegards Bob H Duracell Bunny <karen_oz@hotmail.com> uttered summat worrerz funny about: > Isn't that the ultimate sacrilege? > > I spent hours there once whinging about my then new Series 2a losing > oil at the rate of a pint a week from the main box. They fixed it > while I waited in the end :) I presume you mean China, it would take far longer in the UK to raise an invoice never mind fix it. Lee D > Duracell Bunny <karen_oz@hotmail.com> uttered summat worrerz funny > about: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lee D No, Lode Lane. They fixed it FOC as it was only 3 weeks old. I just drove there from home (I used to live in Leamington Spa many eons ago) Bit of whingeing from one of the people there (folks just turning up at the factory expecting their vehicles to be fixed blah blah) but they did it, did it quickly & did it well. This would have been around 1968 ... SignatureKaren Gallagher "Reverse the polarity and invert the particle flux!" "You mean put the batteries in the other way?" "...yes." -Star Trek (any of them) SignatureTo reply remove " spam " >A draft discussion document is reportedly floating around concerning > whether there's merit in developing a Chinese assembly plant for new [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > [1] The new Freelander is not assembled in Solihull. > [2] This is the figure that was quoted in May 2005. I am sorry to here this if it happens. But as far as I am concerned Land Rover died when the new Range Rover with monocoque chassis came out and also the freelander, These aren't Proper Land Rovers and not open to as much modification as the old British ones, although I suppose one must move with the times !!!!! Oh well Britain left behind again :-((( Richard Very soon London Taxi's International and Morgan will be the only two volume manufacturers left in the UK and still British owned. Larry SignatureSeries 3 Rust and Holes >A draft discussion document is reportedly floating around concerning > whether there's merit in developing a Chinese assembly plant for new [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > [1] The new Freelander is not assembled in Solihull. > [2] This is the figure that was quoted in May 2005. > Very soon London Taxi's International and Morgan will be the only two > volume manufacturers left in the UK and still British owned. I wouldn't call either a volumn manufacturer. The first one is about to start up a factory in China, they say for the Chinese market only but......! There are other small manufacturers just like those two,i.e. Westfield, Caterham & Bristol. http://www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/ http://www.caterham.co.uk/ http://www.bristolcars.co.uk/index2.htm SignatureRegards Bob H 17mls W. of London.UK That is exactly my point, they are not exactly "volume" manufacturers but soon making cars in the UK will become a craft industry, like making wicker baskets and coracles. Larry SignatureSeries 3 Rust and Holes > > "Larry" wrote [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > http://www.caterham.co.uk/ > http://www.bristolcars.co.uk/index2.htm > That is exactly my point, they are not exactly "volume" > manufacturers but soon making cars in the UK will become a craft > industry, like making wicker baskets and coracles. Given what the volume market is like, I think I'll vote for a wicker basket over a plastic carrier bag! SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! > That is exactly my point, they are not exactly "volume" manufacturers but > soon making cars in the UK will become a craft industry, like making wicker > baskets and coracles. > > Larry Wicker baskets are already made in China! We make sod-all here now, and when the bubble bursts........ The curious thing is that France, Italy, and to a large extent Germany seem to be able to make things and not price themselves out of the market. Apart from a pretty determined "Buy <insert country of choice>" attitude, the only real difference between us and the rest of the EU appears to be the way capital is raised, and how the earnings from that capital investment are disbursed, which rather points the finger at The City rather than our supposedly unproductive workers. i.e how can Nissan, Toyota, etc build cars, or anything else, cost effectively when British based companies can't. [1] Personaly I deeply believe a major factor is our short-termism, i.e. our financial insitutions are far more focused on this years profits than on whether the company will be around in 10 years time. This was sad (from the jobs point of view), but is now stupid - we have sold off all the family silver (BOC, British Steel, ICI, GEC, Lucas, Farranti, BR, the water companies, Blue Circle, Cable & Wireless, etc, etc) so that instead of getting a lower return on investement "for ever", a big one-off hit has been made, but also cut off the revenue stream. My evidence for this is that pension schemes used to get most of thier income from investments in Britsh companies, but now they've almost all been sold off the pension companies are in *big* trouble - that's no co-incidence. The US, the only other country to adopt the same short-termist view, is also suffering from "Made in China", which again I believe isn't just a co-incidence. Richard [1] completely ignoring the long term effects of not being in the Euro, which will yet turn us into a curious histoical theme park for tourists. Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive > supposedly unproductive workers. i.e how can Nissan, Toyota, > etc build cars, or anything else, cost effectively when British > based companies can't. [1] ISTR that a major reason was that it's easier to dump british workers than it is to dump French/German/US etc workers due to the lax rules implemented here in order to encourage investment -- encourage it by making it easy to dump if it's no longer needed. The apathy of the brits helps too, sacking the French seems to be more trouble than it's worth. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! >> supposedly unproductive workers. i.e how can Nissan, Toyota, >> etc build cars, or anything else, cost effectively when British [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > brits helps too, sacking the French seems to be more trouble than it's > worth. Personally I have always thought the problems in this country were mainly caused by bad management or even lack of management. Possibly too many people promoted because of their handshake instead of their ability? With foreign management our people seem to be able to build things at a profit and up to the best standards but it doesn't seem to be possible with British management. Same problem is manifest in the NHS, thousands of administrators but no management, ask at your local hospital when any of the staff last saw the senior manager walking around talking to his patients and staff, poking his nose in. If he's a real manager it should be daily, if he sits behind a desk he's just another administrator being paid too much. SignatureRegards Bob H 17mls W. of London.UK > Personally I have always thought the problems in this country were > mainly caused by bad management or even lack of management. Possibly > too many people promoted because of their handshake instead of their > ability? Ah yes, masonic conspiracy, must be that! If not the masons, it's the Jews or the Knights Templar, they're everywhere.... Evidence of idiocy and disorder is everywhere, in general it's the best explanation for most things. Grass Is Greener syndrome seems to be responsible for most of the "it's different overseas" shite, where frankly it's pretty much the same. I've seen so many mirrors of the usual whining from Americans, or British ex-pats living in Spain, France etc. People need to accept that the world isn't perfect, and they themselves would f.ck everything up too if they were in command and just get on with the stuff that really matters. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! >>> supposedly unproductive workers. i.e how can Nissan, Toyota, >>> etc build cars, or anything else, cost effectively when British [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >nose in. If he's a real manager it should be daily, if he sits behind a desk >he's just another administrator being paid too much. huh, try teaching. We have 42 teachers at my school, and 38 support staff, of which 12 are classroom assistants, so the other 26 sit behind desks and push paper, and wonder why we get upset when we tell them to piss off cos we're too busy teaching. I mean, in our school, we now have student well being managers, who look after the children, as well as the traditional heads of year. Needless to say, these well being managers don't teach a single lesson.... SignatureSimon Isaacs "Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote" George Jean Nathan (1882-1955) ROT13 me.... |
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