Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2006
Some facts ?
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Cyberwraith - 28 Oct 2006 14:54 GMT Just been on the ABD (Association of British Drivers) website and found these 'facts'.
FACTSHEET Anti-4x4 ranters are typically heavy on emotive claptrap and short on facts (mainly because they haven't got any facts), so here are some facts:
CONGESTION - 4x4s are insignificant contributors to congestion and those that do sit in jams actually improve matters! a.. Unlike their US counterparts, European 4x4s have a smaller 'footprint' on the road than similarly priced saloons. A Range Rover is 20cm shorter than a Mercedes S class, and a Toyota RAV4 is a massive 47cm shorter than a Ford Mondeo! b.. 4x4 vehicles account for only 3% of the cars on the road - that means that in London there are three times as many buses and fifteen times as many taxis entering the central area every day than 4x4s (figures from TfL) FUEL CONSUMPTION & USAGE - 4x4s in the UK are very different from those in the US. There is already a big incentive to buy fuel efficient vehicles (called fuel duty) and most people opt for the most economical 4x4s. a.. Fuel consumption figures for 4x4s vary greatly, but the vast majority sold in the UK are diesel engined and do between 25 and 42mpg - they are comparable to family saloons not '12mpg gas guzzlers' b.. Luxury 4x4 vehicles sold in the UK average 27.4mpg according to Spyder Automotive, comparing well with the 28.4mpg achieved by luxury saloons and 27mpg for premium sports cars. c.. The Honda CRV 2.2d manages 42 mpg combined, the seven seat Discovery TDV6 does 30mpg. The new Lexus RX400h hybrid delivers 32mpg despite having a powerful petrol engine and automatic transmission. d.. 4x4s that do consume more fuel than average also have drivers that already pay more fuel duty, because over 70% of the price of fuel is tax. This is the biggest incentive to restrict sales of these vehicles, and its working. The Land Rover Discovery is the best selling heavy duty 4x4 and 99% of buyers opt for the 30mpg diesel rather than the petrol engined models featured in the publicity material of the anti 4x4 groups e.. A fairer comparison on fuel consumption would take into account usage annual mileage - many 4x4s are used for towing and carrying whilst longer trips are made by the second family car. f.. A 4x4 can provide transport for up to 9 people at a time (Defender 110 Station Wagon) g.. Older petrol engined 4x4s invariably either do a very low annual mileage or are converted to environmentally friendly LPG. These are usually bought due to real customer need - off road use or heavy duty towing. TAXATION - special taxes on 4x4s would be unfair on those who really need them - and, anyway, what is a 4x4? a.. The Environment Transport Agency says that drivers have been hit too hard by the carbon debate b.. Other forms of taxation on 4x4s (higher VED or congestion charge) would be less fair than fuel duty and they would penalise: - essential users like farmers along with urban dwellers - those who do a low mileage and so dont burn much fuel - those who choose a more economical 4x4
c.. Transport for London recently admitted that they could not define a 4x4 robustly. There are many 4x4 cars on the road, like the Jaguar X TYPE and the Audi Quattro models. Equally, some 4x4 models like the Nissan X-Trail are available with front wheel drive only. SAFETY - 4x4s are inherently safer vehicles than normal cars and so cost less to insure - increasingly they are packed with technology that makes them even safer a.. All types of car will have to meet the same stringent pedestrian impact tests (new models from 2006, all cars from 2011). The Honda CR-V (the second best selling 4x4 in the UK) already achieves the top rated NCAP 3 star rating for pedestrian safety b.. DfT and Government Office statistics show that buses are bigger killers of pedestrians (per km driven) than all cars, and that Light Commercials typified by the Ford Transit, which have similar dimensions and driving positions to 4x4s, are actually the safest group of vehicles on the road in terms of pedestrian deaths and injuries. c.. Arguments about weight in car to car impacts could equally apply to all cars - a new VW Golf GTI weighs twice as much as the 1970's original, largely due to better crash performance and increased safety features. d.. 4 wheel drive makes cars safer in poor road conditions, and the higher driving position of SUVs gives a better view of the road ahead, which is the most crucial accident avoidance measure of all e.. Most of the more expensive 4x4s are now fitted with parking sensors that aid manoeuvring in tight spaces, reducing the risk of hitting low objects like children - close to the vehicle f.. 4x4s typically have lower insurance groupings than similarly priced saloons indicating a better safety record
Adrian Simpson - 28 Oct 2006 18:34 GMT >Just been on the ABD (Association of British Drivers) website and found >these 'facts'. First rule of tabloid journalism : never let the facts get in the way of a good story
Second rule of tabloid journalism : never do any research if there is less than 6 months to the press date.
Adrian
 Signature To Reply : replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil" Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.
Larry - 28 Oct 2006 19:28 GMT Don't forget that some 4X4's are not permanent 4wd anyway and are 2wd on the road.
Larry
 Signature Series 3 Rust and Holes
> Just been on the ABD (Association of British Drivers) website and found > these 'facts'. [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > f.. 4x4s typically have lower insurance groupings than similarly priced > saloons indicating a better safety record Cyberwraith - 28 Oct 2006 23:37 GMT Agreed, but it is extremely obvious this government wants 4 x 4's off the road. The first question has to be why? Are they just trying to divert the publics attention from the state of the country in general. Also is the continuing 'harrassment' of 4 x 4 drivers / owners bordering on persecution? The 'reasons' given, that is environmental just do not hold water. If the government was really trying to cut the damage done then start by simply banning ALL large 'gas guzzlers'.(At this point I will state the mpg given on the anti 4x4 site earlier is wrong for my Discovery. I get approx 25 - 27 mpg urban not the stated 22mpg. Yes I have e-mailed them with this info). You know the cars I mean, Roll Royce, Mercedes, Lexus, to name a few. Then what about vans, buses, and the numerous Black Cabs? No the anti 4 x 4 movement has nothing to do with the environment, what it is really about though........ who knows. (Any answers please on a postcard and e-mailed here ASAP). I constantly get asked why I drive my Disco. To start with why should I have to defend my choice. In fact why should anyone. Smoking has been banned, 4 x 4's are now being targeted, what is next?
Richard Brookman - 29 Oct 2006 20:14 GMT || Agreed, but it is extremely obvious this government wants 4 x 4's || off the road. The first question has to be why? 1. Perceived to be owned by posh people, therefore a legitimate target for the old class warriors in NL, and also the NL Tories who need to keep the Marxists sweet by throwing them a fish or two between elections. Viz the hunting "debate".
2. Owned by a minority, including farmers (eeurgh), country sports people (eeeeeuurgh) and rich people who send their children to private school (eeeeeeeeeeuuuuurgh), therefore easy to set up as an Aunt Sally for everyone to throw rocks at. Hitler knew all about this: set up a common enemy in people's minds, and encourage everyone to make their opposition vocal. It will take their minds off the other stuff that's going on that the Govt would rather you didn't think about. Iraq, the NHS and cash-for-honours come to mind, amongst many others.
And to correct your original statement (if I may), they don't want them off the road, they want them on the road, but vilified, and paying through the nose.
 Signature Rich ==============================
Take out the obvious to email me.
Austin Shackles - 29 Oct 2006 22:32 GMT >herefore easy to set up as an Aunt Sally for everyone >to throw rocks at. Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this absolutely clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah."
 Signature Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)
Ian Rawlings - 29 Oct 2006 22:51 GMT > Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone anyone > until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this absolutely > clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah." Heh. I wonder how many people in this group are women pretending to be men?
 Signature Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
Nige - 29 Oct 2006 23:11 GMT >> herefore easy to set up as an Aunt Sally for everyone >> to throw rocks at. > > Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone > anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this > absolutely clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah." No, I'm, Brian........
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Nige
Subaru WRX (54) Land Rover Turbo Diesel 110 (G) KTM 520 SX (2001) Kawasaki ZZR 1100 (1995)
Ian Rawlings - 29 Oct 2006 23:19 GMT >> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone >> anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this >> absolutely clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah." > > No, I'm, Brian........ I'm from the Judean People's Front..
 Signature Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
Cyberwraith - 29 Oct 2006 23:39 GMT >>> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone >>> anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'm from the Judean People's Front.. I'm from the People Front of Judea AND my name is Brian!!
Lee_D - 30 Oct 2006 11:11 GMT Cyberwraith <jfnfy4evr@ntlworld.com> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>>>> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone >>>> anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I'm from the People Front of Judea AND my name is Brian!! I had you down as being with the Popular peoples front of Judea.... traitor!
:-) Cyberwraith - 30 Oct 2006 12:15 GMT > Cyberwraith <jfnfy4evr@ntlworld.com> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > :-) Don't mention the Popular Peoples Front of Judea!!! They are splitters!! JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH. bet HE WAS LEFT ALONE WITH HIS 4 X 4
Ian Rawlings - 30 Oct 2006 12:52 GMT > Don't mention the Popular Peoples Front of Judea!!! They are splitters!! > JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH. bet HE WAS LEFT ALONE WITH HIS 4 X 4 Sshhh!!! Don't say 4x4!
 Signature Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
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