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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / March 2007steamy exhaust (101 v8)
I have done a few trips in the 101 today and i have noticed that the exhaust is always very wet and steamy - even when it has just been for a run so is definately warmed up. The truck has always had a fair water habit - I had to put a gallon in today to get it back to the top of the radiator and it has only done a few shuffles round the garden over the last couple of months to get things past it. I left it ticking over in the garden for 15 minutes or so and it overheated :( Is a constant steamy exhaust natural for a petrol v8? or could i have a problem developing? I also have a ticking noise coming from one bank (valve cover gaskets still on shopping list!) and a dodgy idle meaning it stalls at junctions when warm sometimes :( > Is a constant steamy exhaust natural for a petrol v8? or could i have > a problem developing? Go on Tom, guess..... Steve >> Is a constant steamy exhaust natural for a petrol v8? or could i have >> a problem developing? > >Go on Tom, guess..... you never know, could be natural for old engines with all them extra cylinders! My oil stays clean, so if there is a problem its either a crack in the head or the gasket has gone between a waterway and the business bits. I suppose i should find a compression tester and fight my way in to get it on all the pots :( >> Is a constant steamy exhaust natural for a petrol v8? or could i have >> a problem developing? > > Go on Tom, guess..... > > Steve Clue : Think how Alf Garnett described his son in law. (forget the long haired bit) Derek >>> Is a constant steamy exhaust natural for a petrol v8? or could i have >>> a problem developing? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Clue : Think how Alf Garnett described his son in law. (forget the long >haired bit) Before my time! Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >>>> Is a constant steamy exhaust natural for a petrol v8? or could i >>>> have a problem developing? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Before my time! My money is on the head gasket, look for steam cleaned spark plugs. You could get a sniffer kit to test the coolant but to be honest It sounds like head off time. Rattle I guess is a lazy lifter (thats not an insult!) change the cam while you have it all stripped down, set of new lifters, new gasket and also worth getting the valves looked at too if they are owt like Morphs were. Hopefully you will get the manifolds off ok but be prepared for knackered threads in the heads. I HATE 101 Carb's thats got to be the worst part of the whole job. Of course it may be quicker to throw in a 4.6 lump. Nah, you'd never get it in ;-) >My money is on the head gasket, look for steam cleaned spark plugs. You >could get a sniffer kit to test the coolant but to be honest It sounds like >head off time. Rattle I guess is a lazy lifter (thats not an insult!) change >the cam while you have it all stripped down, set of new lifters, new gasket >and also worth getting the valves looked at too if they are owt like Morphs >were. I didnt need any money left in my bank account anyway! ;) (roughly how much did it cost for you to do Morph?) how does a lifter get lazy? (and additionally is a lifter another name for a cam follower? - i've never had a v8 apart before? and my saabs are OHC). is it more likely to be that than just a valve out of adjustment? Is it a 3.9 cam i want to fit instead of the original to give it a few more donkeys or am i confused? Can i get the cam out without removing the rad too? Additionally - am i mistaken in thinking that the 101 v8 is lower compression than the v8 was in other applications? - how is the compression ratio changed? is it done by the pistons, heads or gaskets? - just wondering if i can change this while it is apart too? >Hopefully you will get the manifolds off ok but be prepared for knackered >threads in the heads. Funily enough i've got to go buy a helicoil kit to do one of the manifold mounting holes in the head on my saab too. >I HATE 101 Carb's thats got to be the worst part of the whole job. might go to halfrods thismorning and buy myself a set of those stubby spanners! >Of course it may be quicker to throw in a 4.6 lump. > >Nah, you'd never get it in ;-) I was very close to buying a p38 for the engine but then everybody convinced me it would be too hard to get all the efi stuff off and that there was a lot of electrics to deal with. I'd like to stay with simple carbs on the 101 i think.. Though if anybody has a 4.6 lying about which they want rid of then let me know! > how does a lifter get lazy? (and additionally is a lifter another name > for a cam follower? - i've never had a v8 apart before? and my saabs > are OHC). is it more likely to be that than just a valve out of > adjustment? If the lifter is hydraulic like in a Saab twin cam engine, they pump up with oil when you start the car to take up any valve slack. They hold some oil, but as they age they sometimes leak back. Then, then can rattle for a few minutes until fully pressurised. Once "buggered" they won't pump up and hold oil, so they rattle longer or even all the time. Are RR V8 engines tappet and either screw or shim adjust, or are they hydraulic tappets?  SignatureCarl Robson Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com >> how does a lifter get lazy? (and additionally is a lifter another name >> for a cam follower? - i've never had a v8 apart before? and my saabs [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >rattle for a few minutes until fully pressurised. Once "buggered" they >won't pump up and hold oil, so they rattle longer or even all the time. I'm not even up to saab twin cam yet! ;) I'm on single cam 8v engines. My saab valves are adjusted using shims. I can cope with that! >Are RR V8 engines tappet and either screw or shim adjust, or are they >hydraulic tappets? I had assumed they were tappet and screw like all the series engines but what you say about the lifters makes sense. > I'm not even up to saab twin cam yet! ;) I'm on single cam 8v engines. Ah, the Ricardo design. Nice engine, but the bucket and shim adjust is annoying. Are there any any triumph parts that swap over? It was essentially the same engine as that fitted to dolomites, but with the transmission replacing the sump, and the engine fitted back to front. SignatureCarl Robson Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com >>>how does a lifter get lazy? (and additionally is a lifter another name >>>for a cam follower? - i've never had a v8 apart before? and my saabs [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I had assumed they were tappet and screw like all the series engines > but what you say about the lifters makes sense. They're hydraulic - ... and if the little valve plate (washer) breaks you end up with quarter of an inch or so of rocker clearance as the lifter doesn't pump up at all. It makes an awful noise! >> I had assumed they were tappet and screw like all the series engines >> but what you say about the lifters makes sense. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >quarter of an inch or so of rocker clearance as the lifter doesn't >pump up at all. It makes an awful noise! That makes sense. its not making an awful noise, just a ticking. Ive found some pictures of them now (they are not covered in my 90/110 manual atall like they dont exist!) They are listed as hydraulic cam followers in some places so my thinking isnt totally wrong! >Of course it may be quicker to throw in a 4.6 lump. > >Nah, you'd never get it in ;-) http://tinyurl.com/2ovkvo bit pricey for me but i bet the truck would go nicely with that in there! >>>> Is a constant steamy exhaust natural for a petrol v8? or could i have >>>> a problem developing? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Before my time! ah you young whippersnapper you, he used to call him a scouse git though with Warrens superb characterisation it came out like S'gas git - or gasket if you will, fraid it sounds like a little blow off a waterway they are very close to the cylinder between 2 and 3 pots if you can borrow a bore inspector the afflicted cylinders will be very clean I found that if you top her up and rev the knackers off the gas goes the other way and the header tank bubbles up. If you do pull the heads off worth checking the valves and seats very carefully I had one with a burn across the valve head which wasn't helping compression. Derek I use Head Shoulders and Kurust on my hair >> Before my time! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >seats very carefully I had one with a burn across the valve head which >wasn't helping compression. ta derek!. no header tank as such on the 101 - s'got one of them expansion tanks that it is supposed to suck back in from - though it never does suck it back in only spit it out! will see what the compression tester says if i can fit it in there! argh. just popped out to the builders merchant in it and it is now even worse!. Looks more like grey smoke now than steam though. exhaust is invisible until it has been running for 30secs or so at which point it starts getting worse as it warms up. This consistent? Still pulling well though! :) Off to find a compression tester later :( > argh. just popped out to the builders merchant in it and it is now > even worse!. Looks more like grey smoke now than steam though. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Off to find a compression tester later :( Stop driving it Tom, it sounds terminal. Grey is oil going in with the steam. Steve >> argh. just popped out to the builders merchant in it and it is now >> even worse!. Looks more like grey smoke now than steam though. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Stop driving it Tom, it sounds terminal. Grey is oil going in with the >steam. I thought blue smoke was oil? though im often confused! its now parked up back in its favourite spot in the garden. I think it likes it there! I had my garden back for 24 hours anyway! Oi Lee_D! - do you have a v8 engine rebuild manual i might borrow? or Richard - do you stock them? I've just read about tappet preload and its scary so a manual might be sensible. What is the general consensus on replacing the rocker shaft assembly while i'm in there? Should i do it too? I am definately gonna do my cam and followers while im getting dirty. . > I thought blue smoke was oil? though im often confused! That's be pure oil I think - this sounds like its wet too, hence the colour - it matches that 200Tdi project engine of mine - that had oil and water issues. Steve > >> argh. just popped out to the builders merchant in it and it is now > >> even worse!. Looks more like grey smoke now than steam though. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Oi Lee_D! - do you have a v8 engine rebuild manual i might borrow? or > Richard - do you stock them? DA3045 Book - The Rover V8 Engine £17.59 (no VAT) DA3039 Book - 'Tuning Rover V8 Engines' £15.99 (no VAT) > I've just read about tappet preload and its scary so a manual might be > sensible. > > What is the general consensus on replacing the rocker shaft assembly > while i'm in there? Should i do it too? Have a look at the old shafts - if there's wear where he rockers go then you ideally should. If there's no wear, then don't worry about it. Same goes for the rockers - give then a look over before making a decision. > I am definately gonna do my cam and followers while im getting dirty. Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb I've started at it today - pulled the first plug out to start the compression test and it came out all wet and manky - so I didnt bother with the compression test! The other 6 plugs that i have managed to remove so far look OK. Lee - How did you go on with Morphs manifolds?. Ive done them all now and the count was one bolt that rounded off and came off with an 11m socket hammered on, and 2 snapped off heads on the drivers side. Richard - addendum since my last phone call - do you sell a spark plug socket for the rover v8? 14mm thinwall i presume. Mine wont fit on and i did it all with a box socket today which wasnt easy. > I've started at it today - pulled the first plug out to start the > compression test and it came out all wet and manky - so I didnt bother [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > socket for the rover v8? 14mm thinwall i presume. Mine wont fit on and > i did it all with a box socket today which wasnt easy. Proabably! I havn't got the far in the suppliers catalogue yet...... I dare say I've got one you can borrow. Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk I have become... comfortably numb > Proabably! I havn't got the far in the suppliers catalogue yet...... for reference - a std spark plug socket (assuming mine is std!) wont work in a rover v8 as there aint enough clearance between the plug and the head to fit it in. I paid someone to set up my 101 and change the plugs when i got it and have neglected it since so have never realised this until now! > I dare say I've got one you can borrow. I'll pop into halfrauds on the way home and see if they sell em, otherwise might take you up on that if i dont manage to buy one from somewhere before i get there. I've got 6 of them out with the box spanner from a saab 900 toolkit > I'll pop into halfrauds on the way home and see if they sell em, > otherwise might take you up on that if i dont manage to buy one from > somewhere before i get there. > I've got 6 of them out with the box spanner from a saab 900 toolkit Shove one in an envelope, and I'll get on of our lads to turn it down for you. Steve > > I'll pop into halfrauds on the way home and see if they sell em, > > otherwise might take you up on that if i dont manage to buy one from [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Steve That's the way to go, I've got two out of those cheap socket sets which I turned about a millimetre off the outside for about 20 mm from the bottom. Made a second one when I couldn't find the first then it turned up again. Martin Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: > I've started at it today - pulled the first plug out to start the > compression test and it came out all wet and manky - so I didnt bother [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > socket for the rover v8? 14mm thinwall i presume. Mine wont fit on and > i did it all with a box socket today which wasnt easy. Manifolds - Exhaust to block about three or four were helicoiled. The valves were all done at the engineers along with new valve guides. All valves reworked in to their seats. Actual exhaust manifolds on the passenger side had to have one stud ground off, drilled and replaced. All done by Allards who used to be down Chesterton but are now just off Litchfield street. Wasn't cheap mind. I just used the box spanner, it doesn't take much to strip a thread on a v8 head so all ratchets were banished from the spark plug duties. I still have the offending Valve in the kitchen window as a reminder to be more trusting in my Dads diagnosis in future. Lee >Manifolds - Exhaust to block about three or four were helicoiled. The valves >were all done at the engineers along with new valve guides. All valves >reworked in to their seats. > >Actual exhaust manifolds on the passenger side had to have one stud ground >off, drilled and replaced. i got everything out of the passenger side, 2 snapped in the other side. Hopefully i can weld something to them to get them out once the head is off... >All done by Allards who used to be down Chesterton but are now just off >Litchfield street. Wasn't cheap mind. Im hoping i can just get away with cleaning them up and putting them back.. is it worth lapping all the valves in while it is apart? My mate had some trouble with allards not doing as they should have when he took a head there i think. I've been recommended the place next door to staffs engine components in longport (next to 'gintys) recently - though it took em ages to do my cars flywheel. >I just used the box spanner, it doesn't take much to strip a thread on a v8 >head so all ratchets were banished from the spark plug duties. I cant even get them all out with the box spanner! > Im hoping i can just get away with cleaning them up and putting them > back.. is it worth lapping all the valves in while it is apart? Yes - very worthwhile. TBH it really is worth getting the seats recut and the valves refaced whilst you have it apart. >> Im hoping i can just get away with cleaning them up and putting them >> back.. is it worth lapping all the valves in while it is apart? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >TBH it really is worth getting the seats recut and the valves refaced >whilst you have it apart. is there anything else i should be/should consider doing while im at it also? Is it also worth doing the timing chain? (since im doing the cam). I've now got both manifold off.. is there supposed to be about an inch of crud on the valley gasket? (along with various bits of what i assume are medical equipment and many lost nuts and bolts!) I've been using the green 101 workshop manual for this job. It has gems like 'remove the intake manifold' without any mention of where the bolts are for it (under an inch of crud in most cases!) Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: > I've been using the green 101 workshop manual for this job. It has > gems like 'remove the intake manifold' without any mention of where > the bolts are for it (under an inch of crud in most cases!) I had one very illusive one, ah... memories :-) >Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny >about: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I had one very illusive one, ah... memories :-) The one underneath the carb linkage perchance? Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >>> I've been using the green 101 workshop manual for this job. It has >>> gems like 'remove the intake manifold' without any mention of where [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > The one underneath the carb linkage perchance? You found it then :-) Lee |
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