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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / June 2007

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200Tdi seems a little sluggish

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Alex - 14 Jun 2007 22:37 GMT
Got a 200Tdi fitted into an 89 RR, seems a little sluggish on the
motorway. Has trouble maintaining 70mph up gentle hills, and not as
much pick-up as i'd like mid-range. Thought perhaps it might be turbo.
No oil or smoke, but the turbo doesn't seem to kick in like previous
TDI's i've driven.

Anyone got any ideas? If it was a petrol I'd know what to poke around
at, but a 200Tdi I have no idea....

Alex
hugh - 14 Jun 2007 23:25 GMT
>Got a 200Tdi fitted into an 89 RR, seems a little sluggish on the
>motorway. Has trouble maintaining 70mph up gentle hills, and not as
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Alex
Possibly fuel starvation. Check filter and also water trap if there is
one on RR.

Could be diaphragm gone in injector pump. This detects turbo pressure
and provides more fuel. Ensure pipe from turbo is OK, not punctured or
split.

Check for any splits in air hoses from turbo to intercooler although
they usually cause a whistle.

Signature

hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

Derek - 15 Jun 2007 00:20 GMT
>>Got a 200Tdi fitted into an 89 RR, seems a little sluggish on the
>>motorway. Has trouble maintaining 70mph up gentle hills, and not as
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Check for any splits in air hoses from turbo to intercooler although they
> usually cause a whistle.

could even be a slightly low turbo pressure this post makes for a spot of
light reading http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=31&hl=fuel+pump

Derek
home, home, on the Rangie
Alex - 15 Jun 2007 08:43 GMT
>>>Got a 200Tdi fitted into an 89 RR, seems a little sluggish on the
>>>motorway. Has trouble maintaining 70mph up gentle hills, and not as
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>could even be a slightly low turbo pressure this post makes for a spot of
>light reading http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=31&hl=fuel+pump

Reading some of this coupled with Hughs comments above is lending me
to suspect there may be a problem somewhere in the wastegate to
diaphram area of things. I am thinking that I will intercept the line
from the turbo to the injector pump and fit a pressure gauge, at least
I can see if the turbo is actually producing any boost. Do I actually
have to get it running along the road to see, or should the boost cut
in the same when the engine not under load?

Alex
EMB - 15 Jun 2007 09:27 GMT
> Reading some of this coupled with Hughs comments above is lending me
> to suspect there may be a problem somewhere in the wastegate to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> have to get it running along the road to see, or should the boost cut
> in the same when the engine not under load?

It'll only produce boost under load.
Pete M - 15 Jun 2007 22:35 GMT
In news:46724d89@news01.wxnz.net,
EMB <embtwo@gmail.com> wittered on forthwith;

>> Reading some of this coupled with Hughs comments above is lending me
>> to suspect there may be a problem somewhere in the wastegate to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> It'll only produce boost under load.

Check there are no exhaust manifold blows while you're at it. I'm being
persecuted by the bleedin' things at the the moment and it pretty much kills
boost pressure.

Signature

Pete M - Using the Scouse Side of the Force -
Golf GTi Mk2 2.0 8v
Wood and Pickett Range Rover V8 Turbo
Golf GTi Mk1 (For Sale)
OMF#9

Currently listening to The White Stripes

Austin Shackles - 16 Jun 2007 07:56 GMT
>> It'll only produce boost under load.

must produce some pressure at high revs off-load, though?  might not be full
boost, I admit.  But at (say) 3000 rpm, the engine is pumping 3000 x 1.25
litres per minute of air through the turbo impeller, and that must be
generating airflow in the compressor.

Now, if you had a very clever turbo it could idle when not needed, and only
generate boost when the engine is under load, and this would probably be
more efficient...  But I don't think they fit ones like that.

I've revved turbo ones in the yard with the bonnet up and noted the hoses
getting fatter, so I reckon it boosts any time the engine's up to speed,
meself.

>Check there are no exhaust manifold blows while you're at it. I'm being
>persecuted by the bleedin' things at the the moment and it pretty much kills
>boost pressure.

and this is another good point.  The transit TD here has the same problem,
and when the manifold is blowing it don't pull so well.  Unfortunately, the
simple fix (gun gum around the joint) doesn't last all that long - but the
proper fix, which is to remove the manifold, clean the joint and re-seal it
(it doesn't have a gasket), would take about half a day, whereas the simple
one takes 5 minutes.

Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
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EMB - 16 Jun 2007 08:07 GMT
> I've revved turbo ones in the yard with the bonnet up and noted the hoses
> getting fatter, so I reckon it boosts any time the engine's up to speed,
> meself.

Connect a boost gauge and have a look at what happens.
Austin Shackles - 17 Jun 2007 20:45 GMT
>> I've revved turbo ones in the yard with the bonnet up and noted the hoses
>> getting fatter, so I reckon it boosts any time the engine's up to speed,
>> meself.
>
>Connect a boost gauge and have a look at what happens.

I'm not arguing that it'll produce full boost off-load.  But it's still a
fact that just by rotating the engine pumps a goodly wedge of air through
the impeller, which must generate some boost.  The difference when it's
burning fuel is that you not only get the balance of the input air going out
of the exhaust but also the combustion gases.

You're quite correct that what you need to measure is maximum boost, and
it'll only do that at full chat.  Or, more accurately I suppose you need to
measure the revs at which the wastegate opens, on a normal sort of engine.
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
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TonyB - 15 Jun 2007 22:46 GMT
>> Reading some of this coupled with Hughs comments above is lending me
>> to suspect there may be a problem somewhere in the wastegate to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> It'll only produce boost under load.

Er, not quite. The engine doesn't have to be under load but does need
spinning up.
It'll produce more than enough pressure at rest if you take off the
hose and put your hand over the turbo outlet. Rev the engine
and there should be a fair bit of pressure on your hand, similar, oddly,
to an exhaust pipe pressure.

TonyB
EMB - 16 Jun 2007 00:37 GMT
>>> Reading some of this coupled with Hughs comments above is lending me
>>> to suspect there may be a problem somewhere in the wastegate to
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> and there should be a fair bit of pressure on your hand, similar, oddly,
> to an exhaust pipe pressure.

FFS if you don't understand the workings of something please at least
STFU rather than disseminate misinformation to people looking for help.
  To check for a turbocharger problem you need to check for maximum
boost which can only be done under load - free revving will not produce
any significant amount of  boost.
Oily - 16 Jun 2007 09:38 GMT
> >>> Reading some of this coupled with Hughs comments above is lending me
> >>> to suspect there may be a problem somewhere in the wastegate to
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> boost which can only be done under load - free revving will not produce
> any significant amount of  boost.

Nice one EMB, you don't mince words.  The important point is when the engine
is under load it's burning a lot more fuel, and producing much more
expanding exhaust gases which drive the turbo faster, turning out more
boost. You need to T in an accurate low pressure gauge to check how much.

Martin
EMB - 16 Jun 2007 11:52 GMT
> Nice one EMB, you don't mince words.  

I'm never keen on being told I'm wrong when I've given correct advice.
Otherwise I'm mostly pleasant and of good humour.
Derek - 16 Jun 2007 13:42 GMT
>> > "EMB" <embtwo@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:46724d89@news01.wxnz.net...
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Martin

Martin I seem to recall the recommendation was to check with the engine
running over 2000rpm and climbing  that sound about right ? (I'm imagining
it means similar to the climb up from Mottram to Staly 1:20? ) btw you got
any RRC bits you want to sell  I have a list
;-)
Derek
Oily - 18 Jun 2007 12:37 GMT
"Derek"    wrote .............

> Martin I seem to recall the recommendation was to check with the engine
> running over 2000rpm and climbing  that sound about right ? (I'm imagining
> it means similar to the climb up from Mottram to Staly 1:20? ) btw you got
> any RRC bits you want to sell  I have a list
>  ;-)
> Derek

That would do the trick, and yes, I've got lots of bits, mail me the list
and I'll see if I can help you out.

Martin
Tom Woods - 16 Jun 2007 17:49 GMT
>Nice one EMB, you don't mince words.  The important point is when the engine
>is under load it's burning a lot more fuel, and producing much more
>expanding exhaust gases which drive the turbo faster, turning out more
>boost. You need to T in an accurate low pressure gauge to check how much.

The first bit of advice to anyone with a turbo engine experiencing
issues should definately be to fit an accurate boost gauge. until you
know what the boost is you are just guessing at other causes.

In my saab, to set up my max boost I always go for a steep hill and
then thrash it up it ensuring i get to 4th gear (top in my car).

--
http://www.101club.org
The 101 Forward Control Club and Register
TonyB - 16 Jun 2007 21:25 GMT
>>Nice one EMB, you don't mince words.

No he doesn't does he?

However, I will at least remain polite in my reply and hold a faint hope
that
an apology may be forthcoming. I quote the original poster:
" at least
I can see if the turbo is actually producing any boost. "

My test will tell him exactly if his turbo is producing ANY boost.

He did not ask for an accurate method of measuring boost.

TonyB
Austin Shackles - 17 Jun 2007 20:49 GMT
>>>Nice one EMB, you don't mince words.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>He did not ask for an accurate method of measuring boost.

well, true.  To check for "any" boost, you open the bonnet and rev it up to
about 3000, and watch the outlet hoses from the turbo, which will get
fatter.  

However, it's pretty unlikely to produce no boost at all without other
symptoms, so you really do need a max boost check.  Since most of them
regulate boost with a wastegate, knowing at what revs the boost stabilises
at the preset level is also useful - if the turbo, for any reason, is a bit
lacksadasical then it might still get to the book value for boost but not
'til a higher speed.
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

hugh - 17 Jun 2007 11:35 GMT
In message <467322ba$1@news01.wxnz.net>, EMB <embtwo@gmail.com> writes

>>>> Reading some of this coupled with Hughs comments above is lending me
>>>> to suspect there may be a problem somewhere in the wastegate to
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>which can only be done under load - free revving will not produce any
>significant amount of  boost.
I would agree with this. I had a Volvo turbo with a boost gauge on the
dash and I was surprised to note that that cruising down the motorway at
70(ish) there was virtually no reading at all.
Signature

hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

TonyB - 17 Jun 2007 12:14 GMT
> In message <467322ba$1@news01.wxnz.net>, EMB <embtwo@gmail.com> writes
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> dash and I was surprised to note that that cruising down the motorway at
> 70(ish) there was virtually no reading at all.

I'm afraid you may be under the same misapprehension that EMB is under Hugh.
While crusing at 70 you'll have a low throttle opening which results in low
exhaust gas pressure,
thus the turbo will not spin to full speed. Opening the throttle with an
increase in gas flow will
spin up the turbo but a load on the engine is not necessary for this to
occur.
TonyB
EMB - 17 Jun 2007 13:44 GMT
> I'm afraid you may be under the same misapprehension that EMB is under
> Hugh.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> spin up the turbo but a load on the engine is not necessary for this to
> occur.

Patently untrue Tony.  And I'd really appreciate if you'd stop spreading
inaccurate information - maximum boost will not occur without close to
maximum load (proven over the weekend in several different vehicles
ranging from 2.5 to 16 litres displacement, and max boosts from 0.5bar
to 4bar).
Ian Rawlings - 17 Jun 2007 16:33 GMT
> Patently untrue Tony.  And I'd really appreciate if you'd stop spreading
> inaccurate information - maximum boost will not occur without close to
> maximum load

He's not claimed that it does, he's just said that you'll get *some*
boost, not max, so you can at least say that the turbo is spinning.
I've seen the same on my old lotus, with no load the boost gauge will
give a reading when you boot the throttle in neutral but you don't get
much until you're in gear and underway.

Signature

Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

EMB - 17 Jun 2007 20:00 GMT
>> Patently untrue Tony.  And I'd really appreciate if you'd stop spreading
>> inaccurate information - maximum boost will not occur without close to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> give a reading when you boot the throttle in neutral but you don't get
> much until you're in gear and underway.

As turbo problems are commonly related to worn axial thrust bearings you
need to run them up to significant boost to put a high axial load onto
them to check.  The same applies to a sticky wastegate - maximum boost
is often all that is affected.
Ian Rawlings - 17 Jun 2007 20:14 GMT
> As turbo problems are commonly related to worn axial thrust bearings you
> need to run them up to significant boost to put a high axial load onto
> them to check.  The same applies to a sticky wastegate - maximum boost
> is often all that is affected.

It can certainly help, but when a vane fell off mine, just a simple
no-load test was fine, under no load you could hear the bloody thing,
sounded dreadful ;-)

But anyhow, it was your moaning at him for saying something I never
saw him say that bought me into this, and as it's a hot sweaty
evening, I'm off to finish my beer, enjoy!

Signature

Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

TonyB - 17 Jun 2007 20:40 GMT
>> I'm afraid you may be under the same misapprehension that EMB is under
>> Hugh.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> ranging from 2.5 to 16 litres displacement, and max boosts from 0.5bar to
> 4bar).

We were not talking about maximum boost as you'll see if you read the posts
properly.
The OP wanted to know if he was producing ANY boost as he said. My test is
easy cheap and works,
I didn't say it would measure boost accurately but it will tell him if he's
getting boost at all.
Further, you said "It'll only produce boost under load." which is the most
patently untrue statement
in this thread so far.

Load has nothing to do with boost. Of course you'll get max boost under max
load but not because of it.

I would really appreciate it if you'd stop slagging me off without good
cause. Please, read the posts first.
TonyB
Oily - 18 Jun 2007 01:55 GMT
> >> I'm afraid you may be under the same misapprehension that EMB is under
> >> Hugh.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> patently untrue statement
> in this thread so far.

It won't produce any SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT of boost unless it is under load.

> Load has nothing to do with boost. Of course you'll get max boost under max
> load but not because of it.

Why do you think Hugh's Volvo produced 'virtually no reading' whilst
'cruising' along merrily at 70 mph?

> I would really appreciate it if you'd stop slagging me off without good
> cause. Please, read the posts first.
> TonyB

He wasn't slagging you off, you were the one that condemned his statement
"It'll only produce boost under load", it was a helpful comment for the OP.
:-)

Martin
TonyB - 18 Jun 2007 20:17 GMT
> It won't produce any SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT of boost unless it is under load.
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Martin

Martin, thank you for your input.

Point one, the OP did not ask about "significant" amounts of boost, he asked
about checking for ANY boost.
My test would have told him that he was getting some boost or no boost.

Point two: I have already said, Hugh's Volvo produces little boost at 70 mph
because he has a low throttle opening and
low exhaust gas pressure.

Point three: The statement that "It'll only produce boost under load" is not
helpful, it is wrong.

Point four: Call me touchy if you like but he said "FFS" and told me
effectively to shut up unless I knew what I was talking about.
If that isn't slagging me off I don't know what is.

Point five: Perhaps you could explain then, why an engine turbo is affected
by load on the engine to any degree and why my
300 TDi produced enough boost at rest with the pipes off to almost prevent
me from holding my hand over the pipe?
Would that be considered "significant boost" ?

TonyB
Oily - 18 Jun 2007 23:21 GMT
"TonyB"    wrote..............

> Martin, thank you for your input.
>
> Point one, the OP did not ask about "significant" amounts of boost, he asked
> about checking for ANY boost.
> My test would have told him that he was getting some boost or no boost.

If there was no "significant" amount of boost, it would be a waste of time
fitting the turbo in the first place, and it needs to be checked under load.
Yes, I concede your test will show the turbo is actually working to a
degree, but it needs to be checked more accurately.

> Point two: I have already said, Hugh's Volvo produces little boost at 70 mph
> because he has a low throttle opening and
> low exhaust gas pressure.

What are you trying to say here?  Why do you say that Hugh is under a
misapprehension?, you have made the same statement which is correct.  And
after making that statement, how would do you think you would generate the
boost in that situation, say, to possibly overtake something? and would the
engine be then under load?  And why does that alter the boost?

> Point three: The statement that "It'll only produce boost under load" is not
> helpful, it is wrong.

Dare I say this?  FFS   Significant is the operative word, it is a waste of
time running an insignificant test therefore the engine needs to be under
load to test for boost pressure. Your comment was/is wrong.

> Point four: Call me touchy if you like but he said "FFS" and told me
> effectively to shut up unless I knew what I was talking about.
> If that isn't slagging me off I don't know what is.

I don't think you have a right to be 'touchy' when his response was quite
appropriate after you effectively told him he knew nothing when he obviously
does

> Point five: Perhaps you could explain then, why an engine turbo is affected
> by load on the engine to any degree

Do you see a relationship between governor or potentiometer?  fuel?  exhaust
gases?  proportionate increase in boost?

and why my
> 300 TDi produced enough boost at rest with the pipes off to almost prevent
> me from holding my hand over the pipe?
> Would that be considered "significant boost" ?

Not really.  :-)  But I knew what you meant.

> TonyB
TonyB - 19 Jun 2007 23:27 GMT
> Yes, I concede your test will show the turbo is actually working to a
> degree, but it needs to be checked more accurately.

Fine. That's all I said, we agree.

>> Point two: I have already said, Hugh's Volvo produces little boost at 70
> mph
>> because he has a low throttle opening and
>> low exhaust gas pressure.
>
> What are you trying to say here?

** What I am trying to say here is Hugh's Volvo produces little boost at 70
mph
because he has a low throttle opening and
low exhaust gas pressure.
I think that is clear enough.

Why do you say that Hugh is under a
> misapprehension?,

** I said Hugh is under a misapprehension because he said " I was surprised
to note that that cruising down the motorway at
70(ish) there was virtually no reading at all."

Clearly Hugh expected a reading otherwise he would not have been surprised
that there wasn't one. I would not have expected a reading at a low throttle
opening
therefore I think Hugh is under the misapprehension that a high speed should
result in him seeing a high boost reading.

you have made the same statement which is correct.
**No, Hugh was surprised at his reading, I wasn't.

And
> after making that statement, how would do you think you would generate the
> boost in that situation, say, to possibly overtake something?

**The increased boost is generated by an increase in exhaust gas pressure,
this occurs when you put your foot down
to overtake, thus putting more fuel through the engine and increasing the
revs.

and would the
> engine be then under load?

** The engine would be under more load, yes

 And why does that alter the boost?
** I didn't say it does.

>> Point three: The statement that "It'll only produce boost under load" is
> not
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> time running an insignificant test therefore the engine needs to be under
> load to test for boost pressure. Your comment was/is wrong.

** Nope, the OP did not mention significant he said "ANY" boost.
The engine does not have to be under load to test for any, or for that
matter, significant, boost.
My test will produce enough boost to virtually stop you holding your hand
over the outlet pipe,
I know it does I have done it, if you don't believe me go and try it. that
amouint of boost certainly qualifies
to answer the question of "any" boost and to my mind also answers the
question of "significant" boost.

>> Point four: Call me touchy if you like but he said "FFS" and told me
>> effectively to shut up unless I knew what I was talking about.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> obviously
> does

** I did no such thing, I said "Not quite" and explained why in polite
terms,
his response he now concedes wasn't right but at least Mike went out and
tried the test.

>> Point five: Perhaps you could explain then, why an engine turbo is
> affected
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> exhaust
> gases?  proportionate increase in boost?

** You'll have to explain that one properly, don't forget you are dealing
with an idiot here.

> and why my
>> 300 TDi produced enough boost at rest with the pipes off to almost
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Not really.  :-)  But I knew what you meant.

** You'll have to explain that one too.

TonyB
Oily - 19 Jun 2007 23:53 GMT
"TonyB"    wrote ...............

<snip load of bollocks>

>  don't forget you are dealing
> with an idiot here.

FFS  I give up!

Martin
TonyB - 20 Jun 2007 19:09 GMT
> FFS  I give up!

Yes it is best to when you have trouble communicating.
TonyB
EMB - 18 Jun 2007 09:33 GMT
> We were not talking about maximum boost as you'll see if you read the
> posts properly.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I would really appreciate it if you'd stop slagging me off without good
> cause. Please, read the posts first.

Tony

Hatchet, buried, and sorry if you took offence.  However I have a turbo
sitting on my bench that will 'produce boost' according to your test,
but the moment it is subjected to any significant load will promptly
bash the exhaust impeller into the housing and cease to turn (and thus
no longer produce boost).  Quite apart from which (as per another of my
posts) a sticky wastegate (a common and relatively cheaply repaired
problem) will not necessarily be diagnosed by your 'test'.

Signature

Mike

TonyB - 18 Jun 2007 20:21 GMT
> Tony
>
> Hatchet, buried, and sorry if you took offence.

Thanks Mike, I did a bit as it happens.

However I have a turbo
> sitting on my bench that will 'produce boost' according to your test, but
> the moment it is subjected to any significant load will promptly bash the
> exhaust impeller into the housing and cease to turn (and thus no longer
> produce boost).

** Point taken and I accept that my test is not an accurate one. I would not
attempt to explain the oddities of your bench turbo!

Quite apart from which (as per another of my
> posts) a sticky wastegate (a common and relatively cheaply repaired
> problem) will not necessarily be diagnosed by your 'test'.

** I can understand that too, hopefully we have an agreement at last!

TonyB
Austin Shackles - 19 Jun 2007 13:08 GMT
>** Point taken and I accept that my test is not an accurate one. I would not
>attempt to explain the oddities of your bench turbo!

it's got shagged bearings, and I bet if you installed it in a motor it'd
scream nicely?
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

EMB - 19 Jun 2007 13:22 GMT
>> ** Point taken and I accept that my test is not an accurate one. I would not
>> attempt to explain the oddities of your bench turbo!
>
> it's got shagged bearings, and I bet if you installed it in a motor it'd
> scream nicely?

It sure does.
Austin Shackles - 22 Jun 2007 13:59 GMT
>>> ** Point taken and I accept that my test is not an accurate one. I would not
>>> attempt to explain the oddities of your bench turbo!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>It sure does.

Mind, I recall hearing one of the HST "Intercity 125" power cars, which run
a Paxman Valenta V12, and that had a turbo "whine" which you could hear from
about a mile off, and that was still in service... pretty successful train,
is that, dates from the days when we could still do engineering.

Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

Tim.. - 22 Jun 2007 23:28 GMT
>>>> ** Point taken and I accept that my test is not an accurate one. I
>>>> would not
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> train,
> is that, dates from the days when we could still do engineering.

Supercharged and turbo'd...

Tim.
.
Colin Reed - 17 Jun 2007 21:37 GMT
The LR workshop manual says the following for testing the boost on the
300Tdi. I would assume the principle (if not fugures) for the 200Tdi
would be the same -->

"To check maximum boost pressure, drive
vehicle normally, but in such a manner that full
throttle can be maintained whilst climbing a hill
with engine speed held steady between 2,500
and 3,000 rev/min. Under these circumstances
boost pressure should read 0,95 - 1,09 Kgf/cm2
(13.5 - 15.5 lb/in2 )."

Colin
www.REEDX.net
Austin Shackles - 18 Jun 2007 07:46 GMT
>The LR workshop manual says the following for testing the boost on the
>300Tdi. I would assume the principle (if not fugures) for the 200Tdi
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>boost pressure should read 0,95 - 1,09 Kgf/cm2
>(13.5 - 15.5 lb/in2 )."

yes, indeed, that's how you'd check for maximum boost and note that it
specifies the speed at which it should be achieved.

But it's true to say that the OP wanted to check for "any" boost, and for
that you don't need to do the whole works.  It might not tell you much,
though, compared with a maximum boost test as above.
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EMB - 18 Jun 2007 09:36 GMT
> yes, indeed, that's how you'd check for maximum boost and note that it
> specifies the speed at which it should be achieved.
>
> But it's true to say that the OP wanted to check for "any" boost, and for
> that you don't need to do the whole works.  It might not tell you much,
> though, compared with a maximum boost test as above.

Max boost is the only way to tell if a turbo is working correctly - and
most unburnt fuel problems only manifest themselves in an obvious manner
at high boost pressures.
Ian Rawlings - 18 Jun 2007 09:46 GMT
> Max boost is the only way to tell if a turbo is working correctly - and
> most unburnt fuel problems only manifest themselves in an obvious manner
> at high boost pressures.

Sorry mush but that's patently untrue, on my old car you could tell
the turbo wasn't working properly even when the car was not under
load, with the engine in neutral, booting the throttle produced the
most godawful sound from the turbo as it was missing an exhaust vane,
the scraping sound was horrible.  Testing for max boost is certainly
important but to baldly state that anything else is worthless is just
daft.  You can check for some problems with a turbo just by spinning
the thing by hand, every turbo problem does not need a max boost check
to see if it's there or not.  I've found a stuck wastegate by trying
to move the thing by hand, no max boost check was needed to spot that
one.

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Austin Shackles - 19 Jun 2007 13:24 GMT
>> Max boost is the only way to tell if a turbo is working correctly - and
>> most unburnt fuel problems only manifest themselves in an obvious manner
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>to move the thing by hand, no max boost check was needed to spot that
>one.

True enough.  There's also the point that the max boost test will tell you
you're not getting the boost you should but not necessarily why...
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Austin Shackles - 19 Jun 2007 13:28 GMT
>Sorry mush but that's patently untrue, on my old car you could tell
>the turbo wasn't working properly even when the car was not under
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>important but to baldly state that anything else is worthless is just
>daft.  

I think it needs taking in context.  The OP stated that the vehicle felt "a
bit sluggish".  A mechanically fscked turbo which screams at anything over
1500 revs rather tends to self-diagnose: in that case, OP would have posted
"my turbo makes a godawful noise[1], I assume that means it's shagged".

The question as originally posed suggests that maybe it's not boosting as
well as it should, and to test that, you do really need a maximum boost test
as EMB said.
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hugh - 19 Jun 2007 15:01 GMT
>>Sorry mush but that's patently untrue, on my old car you could tell
>>the turbo wasn't working properly even when the car was not under
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>well as it should, and to test that, you do really need a maximum boost test
>as EMB said.
We've also not mentioned the third component which is the intercooler.

This is IIRC an 89 RR. Could be the intercooler radiator is bunged up
and in need of a (gentle) washing.
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