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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / August 2007

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Unofficial French style '08

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Lee_D - 26 Aug 2007 21:24 GMT
We've muted a French Unofficial in the Summer Hols '08 next year taking in

Overnight ferry to Saint Malo

3 days Saint Malo..(camp site suggestions near to Saint-Malo needed for
tents & caravans)

scooting down 246 miles (5-6 hours in convoy) and doing a week in the The
Vendée -- I can recommend perhaphs at

http://www.logis-du-breuil.com/gb.html which will not disappoint for R & R
and close to the biggest Zoo in France

then back up 302 miles (6 - 7 hours in convoy) for say 3 or 4 days perhaphs
at

http://www.normandie-camping.com/english/legrandlarge.htm

plonking us ready for a short run to the ferry at Cherbourg - Portsmouth for
a 4 hour afternoon crossing

more chillin and landing beaches - culture - beer and stuff.

Anyone in dependant on date?

Lee D
Dave R - 26 Aug 2007 21:41 GMT
Any idea on general costings? I tried pricing up ferries the other day
to do a similar trip but got in a right mess. Are you talking about
towing a 'van down or camping. Or is there the option of "fixed"
accomodation?

Sounds like fun.
Lee_D - 26 Aug 2007 22:56 GMT
Dave R <v8bobber@yahoo.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> Any idea on general costings? I tried pricing up ferries the other day
> to do a similar trip but got in a right mess. Are you talking about
> towing a 'van down or camping. Or is there the option of "fixed"
> accomodation?
>
> Sounds like fun.

Previous years booked through the caravan club towing a caravan and inc
cross channel ferry crossings have been £1100 all in.

Thats insurance and breakdown (worth every penny), ferry and pitch fees. You
just need fuel, tolls and spending money then. Tolls wise £60 got us all the
way down and back 3 years back - around 1200 miles - and yes they are well
worth paying. This is a rough idea.

This year we pushed the boat out a bit further to spain and it was £1100
just for the crossing (return) inc caravan and cabin. Then around £700 for
pitch fees, insurance and breakdown cover. We booked the crossing in the
October prior , the ferry was full and no empty cabins so little chance of a
late booking.

The idea is that we will do cross channel as cheap as possible whilst making
driving as short as possible for the trip to the sun.
Portsmouth to Saint Malo really drops us bang on for a scoot down the
autoroutes and has little need for the B roads

If we do go the plan is to cater for all, i.e. tents and caravans.

LPG is around 55 euro cents a litre and is available at every other aires
(service area).

Only other cost that springs to mind when we first went was passports x 4
which really sent the budget in to shock.

Gowan! You know it makes sense :-) Taking the ferry will drastically reduce
your carbon foot print to in comparision to Jetting to the same locations.

Lee D
Lee_D - 26 Aug 2007 22:57 GMT
Lee_D <newsgroupNOSPAM@NOSPAMlrproject.com> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> Gowan! You know it makes sense :-) Taking the ferry will drastically
> reduce your carbon foot print to in comparision to Jetting to the
> same locations.
> Lee D

Forgot to say - my figures are based on almost 3 weeks over there... not 2.

Lee
EMB - 27 Aug 2007 07:16 GMT
> Gowan! You know it makes sense :-) Taking the ferry will drastically reduce
> your carbon foot print to in comparision to Jetting to the same locations.

Bugger the carbon footprint - I want to be there.  Once there are firm
dates I'll try and book some hols so I can make it - by that time I
should have recovered financially from SWMBO running off.
Matthew Maddock - 27 Aug 2007 07:35 GMT
> The idea is that we will do cross channel as cheap as possible whilst making
> driving as short as possible for the trip to the sun.
> Portsmouth to Saint Malo really drops us bang on for a scoot down the
> autoroutes and has little need for the B roads

I've been using Transmanche (Newhaven to Dieppe) - if you can stand the
extra drive, I've been finding them less than 1/2 the price of Brittany
Ferries.  The time before last I was parked next to a brand new French
'07 Defender 110 CSW and G4 110 coming back from Billing - very nice
they were too!  The guy with the 07 was showing it off!  I like the
interior more than I thought I would from the mag. photos.

I couldn't go to Vendée this year, but a local friend went in his Disco
and said it was a great event.

Matt
Dave R - 27 Aug 2007 21:31 GMT
Would certainly be very interested in this if it's cost effective for
us by the time it comes around. The way my shifts work is that we get
a long weekend every 3 weeks, finishing on a Thursday at 5pm and then
not going back on till Tuesday night so i'm going to try and suggest
that we take the borrowed 'van to somewhere local next long weekend
and see if we could survive in it with the little one for an extended
period of time.

I reckon that a one or two nighter an hour or so away will give us a
good idea! Maybe i could justify a bigger 'van then. Oh my god, i'm
being sucked in to caravanning.............

I must be reaching a certain age as i'm quite excited by this idea.

Dave
Nige - 27 Aug 2007 21:39 GMT
> Would certainly be very interested in this if it's cost effective for
> us by the time it comes around. The way my shifts work is that we get
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Dave

It's feckin' ace mate, mind you, it's all about the people, so you'll
be fine here you middle aged chap!

Signature

'World, my finger is on the button'

Nige

Land Rover Discovery (1995)
Honda CBR900RR Fireblade (1997)
Yamaha MT-03 (2006)
Kawasaki ZZR-1100 (1994)

Rich B - 27 Aug 2007 22:23 GMT
Sucking his keyboard for inspiration, Nige typed:
>> Would certainly be very interested in this if it's cost effective for
>> us by the time it comes around. The way my shifts work is that we get
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> It's feckin' ace mate, mind you, it's all about the people, so you'll
> be fine here you middle aged chap!

Having been a reluctant caravanner for a year or two, I'm now convinced.
We've had some cracking holidays in ours and (never thought I'd say this) I
wouldn't be without it now.  It's all the fun of camping without the
downsides (bugs don't bother me, but all the bending and kneeling was
begining to get to me).

Essential thing is to achieve an advanced state of Zen contemplation, where
you know every other road user thinks you are a c.nt, but you don't care.

Signature

Rich B
Bandit 1200S
Take out the obvious to email me.

Dave R - 27 Aug 2007 22:55 GMT
All joking aside, I think this will work out quite well. My folks
caravan is quite a decent one I think although about 10 years old. I
think my folks would have kept it in good condition though.
I think the interior is going to be an aquired taste mind, wall to
wall velour, and mock cladding type chipboard for walls. I think it is
actually out of a 70s sitcom.
I have also just been informed that there is a proper awning for it.
a.)does that make any difference b.) how does it work?!
i am, as we speak, looking for a suitable location for a test run!

Dave
Rich B - 27 Aug 2007 23:04 GMT
Sucking his keyboard for inspiration, Dave R typed:
> All joking aside, I think this will work out quite well. My folks
> caravan is quite a decent one I think although about 10 years old. I
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Dave

Awning - doubles your available space, excellent idea, but only if you don't
get a divorce before it's half erected (IYSWIM).  We have a rule when
pitching the caravan: we're nice to each other when we arrive on site and
fix the van up; we argue like f.ck while we put the awning up; and then
we're friends again for the G&T afterwards, and nobody is allowed to mention
the bit in between.  Put it this way - one night, we don't bother with it;
2+ nights, we always do.

Awning lessons free, in return for workshop space for the S2a.  :-)

Signature

Rich B
Bandit 1200S
Take out the obvious to email me.

Lee_D - 27 Aug 2007 23:20 GMT
Rich B <richard.NObrookmanSPAM@THANKSbtinternet.com> uttered summat
worrerz funny about:
> Awning - doubles your available space, excellent idea, but only if
> you don't get a divorce before it's half erected (IYSWIM).  We have a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Awning lessons free, in return for workshop space for the S2a.  :-)

The best thing about the unofficial is getting there second :-) Si helped me
put our awning up and very grateful I was too given Mrs_D's present
roundness and we consider ourselves awning veterans. Si and I later helped
Nige put his up before he "Cut the f.cker up!" lol...

Caravaning is not so much a hobby as a sport and it's teamwork that wins the
day. My pet hate is stones that refuse to allow pegs any purchase and bend
them all.

Of course when you go on your own you'll do two things. Develop a list of
stuff you need next time and also a routine as to who does what and roughly
when... like a well oiled machine.

It gets better each time.

Lee D
Austin Shackles - 28 Aug 2007 09:26 GMT
>My pet hate is stones that refuse to allow pegs any purchase and bend
>them all.

bigger pegs and a kango to put 'em in...

hmmm...

cordless sds drill, and modify cheap long sds drill bits into tent pegs by
welding a loop or hook to the side.

I'd love to be able to drill tent pegs into solid rock...
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

Tom Woods - 28 Aug 2007 16:05 GMT
>>My pet hate is stones that refuse to allow pegs any purchase and bend
>>them all.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>I'd love to be able to drill tent pegs into solid rock...

I've got a semi-permentant car tent which has been up for about 12
months or more now. It is fixed down by about 10 foot long
corkscrew/big bolt style 'pegs'. (they dont have a hook on top just a
flat plate and then 2 inches or so worth of m12 thread)
They came with a special tool to screw them in and are great.

The actual tent has a base frame made of box section which drops over
the exposed threaded studs and then you bolt it down. I was amazed how
well it went down and has stayed down.
Less movement to it than the shed ive just put up!
Dave R - 27 Aug 2007 23:40 GMT
On 27 Aug, 23:04, "Rich B"
<richard.NObrookmanS...@THANKSbtinternet.com> wrote:
> Sucking his keyboard for inspiration, Dave R typed:
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Bandit 1200S
> Take out the obvious to email me.

Christ, me and Ang argue enough in a house already built!! I reckon
we'll go commando the first night and try it without the awning and
see if the little bugger will sleep. It sounds a good idea for us to
be able to put the baby to bed at 7pm in the caravan, in a travel cot,
and then Ang and I can sit the awning and get slowly sozzled. From
what i've seen of visiting my folks at various caravan sites, everyone
seems to be in bed by 9.30 anyway, and then up at sparrows fart next
morning.

With regards awning lessons, they will be greatfully recieved.

With regards to the workshop, i'm on long weekend as of Thursday and
hope to spend a day or two on it if other commitments allow. Grant
came over tonight to advise in the electrics and running the power
from the house. I'm going to do it the hardcore route and dig a bloody
great trench the length of the garden to bury the power cable. He also
reckons that he's got some decent piping to armour it and the relevant
cable.
I've got about half of the interior left to paint and also the floor
to do and shelving to put up as there isnt enough room to put your
bike in there never mind the LR! Shouldnt take much more though to get
it usable. I'm going to treat myself to a welder for my birthday next
week!
Anyway, a couple of days work will get it usable to put your truck in
it. You'll have to remind me whether its got an MOT or not now as it
will be handy to be able to drive it around. (insurance too)
It is just the brake thing or is it still making a horrendous noise
from the transmission? Let me know if its deliverable and what you're
working these days
Matthew Maddock - 28 Aug 2007 06:13 GMT
> Awning - doubles your available space, excellent idea, but only if you
> don't get a divorce before it's half erected (IYSWIM).  We have a rule
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> allowed to mention the bit in between.  Put it this way - one night, we
> don't bother with it; 2+ nights, we always do.

LOL.

My wife insisted we got one for the motorhome, so I reluctantly gave in
and we got one a week ago.  Rather than look like an idiot at a campsite
I decided to try it out in the garden first - well after ages of
struggling my neighbour comes over to help (an experienced caravaner)
It took us the best part of 3 hours to figure out how the bloody thing
went together - not helped by the fact that the instructions were a
crappy set of photos (no words) and none of the parts were marked.  This
is supposed to be an easy one that [apparently] "clips" to the existing
roll out blind thing.  I can understand now why you see them on eBay
described as "Only used once"!

Matt
Rich B - 28 Aug 2007 19:00 GMT
Sucking his keyboard for inspiration, Matthew Maddock typed:
>> Awning - doubles your available space, excellent idea, but only if
>> you don't get a divorce before it's half erected (IYSWIM).  We have
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Matt

Yup, BTDTGTTS!  Awning instructions in an obscure dialect of Polish, with
how-to diagrams drawn by an idiot, all poles look the same but are
*slightly* longer/shorter than the others - not enough to see clearly, but
enough to make it impossible to complete if they are not in the right place,
so you have to actually measure the twats.  First time, took it on site with
us ("it can't be that hard, can it?") and it took us an hour.  My first
reaction, after the 3 beers, was to say "that f.cker is going straight on
ebay when we get home".  Now, the poles are colour-coded, where possible
they are already locked together before we get them out, and the whole thing
takes a smooth 20 mins, assuming normal ground softness for the pegs.
Double all estimates for rocky ground.  These days, it's my* awning, and
don't anyone dare criticise it.  I even can get it looking straight and
square like in the catalogue these days.  That took a few goes!

Awnings are like Land Rovers - ultimately rewarding, but can be very
frustrating with their own ways of driving you mad.

Signature

Rich B
Bandit 1200S
Take out the obvious to email me.

Will Wilkinson - 28 Aug 2007 21:57 GMT
We could be interested, again dependant on dates and possible other
plans - if my current contract gets extended then I might be going to
Greenland for 2-3 months next summer. Sounds like a great trip.

Will
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Austin Shackles - 28 Aug 2007 09:24 GMT
>Sucking his keyboard for inspiration, Nige typed:
>>> Would certainly be very interested in this if it's cost effective for
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>Essential thing is to achieve an advanced state of Zen contemplation, where
>you know every other road user thinks you are a c.nt, but you don't care.

I loved towing the 'van up to Eastnor behind Edward.  35-40 mph, and I
didn't give a f.ck.  If anyone looked askance I'd ask them, from the saftey
of the cab and knowing they couldn't hear, whether their plastic rocket
would still be extant when it was 36 years old, never mind capable of towing
a caravan.

'course, the next plan is to get the purple people-eater on doing that job,
and that'll shift a good bit faster.
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

Tom Woods - 27 Aug 2007 09:06 GMT
>Any idea on general costings? I tried pricing up ferries the other day
>to do a similar trip but got in a right mess. Are you talking about
>towing a 'van down or camping. Or is there the option of "fixed"
>accomodation?

Cheapest ferries are the shortest ones like
dover-calais/dover-dunkerque. Its about £80 return for them (IIRC) -
but means an extra 200-250 miles of driving on the french side (which
isnt bad ;) )
Lee_D - 27 Aug 2007 16:16 GMT
Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:

>> Any idea on general costings? I tried pricing up ferries the other
>> day to do a similar trip but got in a right mess. Are you talking
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> but means an extra 200-250 miles of driving on the french side (which
> isnt bad ;) )

How much is that in a 101 then Tom? It's also a days lost holiday too so it
gets you one way or another. However if we do agree a camp site then peeps
can get to it by whatever means they want.. it can be pretty flexible.

Lee D
Simon Isaacs - 28 Aug 2007 19:04 GMT
>>Any idea on general costings? I tried pricing up ferries the other day
>>to do a similar trip but got in a right mess. Are you talking about
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>but means an extra 200-250 miles of driving on the french side (which
>isnt bad ;) )

Not something I'd recomend.  Have done that with parents towing a van
in a variety of standard cars, on my own and driving a minibus full of
schoolkids.

Me, I'd pay the extra on the ferry, book a cabin and get pleasantly
sozzled on the overnight crossing everytime now.

Besides which, 250 miles is, realistically, over 5hours of driving in
101, which is no the way I want to start or finish, as there is also
the drive in this coutry to and from the ferry as well.

Dover Calais - 3 hours drive, 90 minutes off, 5 hours drive.....

Portsmouth crossing - 4 hours drive, 10 hours off, 5hours drive...
--
"For those who are missing Blair - aim more
carefully."

To reply direct rot13 me

bURRt the 101 Camper www.simoni.co.uk
200TDi Disco with rotten floor
200 TDi DIsco, "the offroader"
1976 S3 Lightweight
Tom Woods - 28 Aug 2007 20:03 GMT
>>>Any idea on general costings? I tried pricing up ferries the other day
>>>to do a similar trip but got in a right mess. Are you talking about
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>in a variety of standard cars, on my own and driving a minibus full of
>schoolkids.

I did it in my car and actually enjoyed the drive. once you get out of
calais the roads are empty and its just dual carriageway cruise all
the way - and the services/aires are all great (and you can stay
overnight in em)

>Me, I'd pay the extra on the ferry, book a cabin and get pleasantly
>sozzled on the overnight crossing everytime now.
>
>Besides which, 250 miles is, realistically, over 5hours of driving in
>101, which is no the way I want to start or finish, as there is also
>the drive in this coutry to and from the ferry as well.

I'm tight though :)
My parents drive to Rouen and back a lot and generally go through the
tunnel. Its about 10 hours (including crossing) for the full 450 mile
journey here to there assuming no traffic jams in the UK

I think, in the 101 i'd leave in the afternoon and drive down to the
port and get a late evening ferry. half hour drive in france and then
kip overnight in an aire. Start again in the morning.
Lee_D - 28 Aug 2007 22:31 GMT
Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:

> I'm tight though :)
> My parents drive to Rouen and back a lot and generally go through the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> port and get a late evening ferry. half hour drive in france and then
> kip overnight in an aire. Start again in the morning.

So are you in by what ever means you get there then?  :-)

We can all RV on the French side though a convoy does offer some reassurance
in a breakdown situation. If we drag Richie Beamends along in the Sherpa he
would probably do more trade that stopping at home ;-)

Tunnel is out for owt with LPG.

Lee D
Tom Woods - 29 Aug 2007 00:42 GMT
>Tom Woods <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny
>about:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>So are you in by what ever means you get there then?  :-)

If i can ever have enough time off work to do it :(
I'm about a week and a half delayed at the moment by having too much
work to do - hence not having a working vehicle for the unofficial. I
was hoping to be in france on holiday this weekend but that aint gonna
happen either :(

>We can all RV on the French side though a convoy does offer some reassurance
>in a breakdown situation. If we drag Richie Beamends along in the Sherpa he
>would probably do more trade that stopping at home ;-)
>
>Tunnel is out for owt with LPG.

Yeah - its a bugger that. I dont see why they wont let a car with an
LPG tank through but they will let you take a gas bottle in a camper
van.
If they only let cars through with a certificated LPG install i could
understand but not the blanket ban.
Tempting to box the LPG tank in or something (its hidden in my car
now!) and try the tunnel anyhow.
me2@privacy.net - 29 Aug 2007 19:57 GMT
>>>>sniped
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>port and get a late evening ferry. half hour drive in france and then
>kip overnight in an aire. Start again in the morning.
Tom,

There is a warning about sleeping at the aires as there have been a
number of robberies from caravans that have involved gassing the
occupants. The current recommendation is to only use official camp
sites.

regards

nemo2
Rich B - 29 Aug 2007 20:56 GMT
Sucking his keyboard for inspiration, me2@privacy.net typed:

>>>>> sniped
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> occupants. The current recommendation is to only use official camp
> sites.

This is an old chestnut which comes up again and again in the
caravan/motorhome fora.  Up until the recent cases, there wasn't one which
stood up to proper scrutiny - either genuine illness or the after-effects of
cheap booze, or a scam behind an insurance claim for lost jewellery or
something.  It seems the French authorities are taking the latest cases more
seriously, so I will reserve judgement until I have seen how it turns out.
But I have read a post from an anaesthetist (proper doctor, like) who said
that gassing someone like this is basically impossible.  I'll try to dig out
the link if anyone's interested.  If it's a real concern, install a gas
alarm for a few quid.  I'd be far more worried about pikeys with firearms in
isolated locations.

Signature

Rich B
Bandit 1200S
Take out the obvious to email me.

Matthew Maddock - 29 Aug 2007 21:32 GMT
>> There is a warning about sleeping at the aires as there have been a
>> number of robberies from caravans that have involved gassing the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> This is an old chestnut which comes up again and again in the
> caravan/motorhome fora.

Yeah, it is rubbish!  One of those urban myths that goes around because
people can't accept that someone can break into your caravan and not
wake you up.  Basically the 'stories' are only ever "we think someone
gassed the caravan/motorhome etc." but in reality there is no actual
evidence.

The truth of the matter is that the amount of gas required to guarantee
to knock out everyone in something the size of a caravan/motorhome is
far more than is practically possible to transport, not to mention too
expensive for it to be worthwhile.  Even if it was possible/happening,
there would have been many deaths from this type of attack -
anesthetising someone is a science, not a matter of sticking a hose in a
vent!

Trust me - if there were any chance of this being a reality, I would be
the first one in line spending my money on one of those detectors!!
Personally I'd prefer to spend the same amount of money on a carbon
monoxide detector (rather more important IMHO) and a decent secondary
lock for the door.

I have slept in the aires myself in the car/van several times with no
issues, but I have to admit that when it was one of the more remote
ones, I was a bit weary.  Most people seem to pick the ones on the
autoroutes and park right next to the service station where there are
always plenty of people about and it is well lit.

Matt
Tom Woods - 30 Aug 2007 00:03 GMT
>Yeah, it is rubbish!  One of those urban myths that goes around because
>people can't accept that someone can break into your caravan and not
>wake you up.  Basically the 'stories' are only ever "we think someone
>gassed the caravan/motorhome etc." but in reality there is no actual
>evidence.

Even if it were after a long hard night on the piss i think i would
still wake up if someone tried to steal the 101 with me sleeping in
the back of it.
I should think that my snoring would scare most thieves off anyhow ;)
Rich B - 30 Aug 2007 15:47 GMT
> But I have read a post from an anaesthetist (proper doctor, like) who said
> that gassing someone like this is basically impossible.  I'll try to dig out
> the link if anyone's interested.

Aha - found it.  (If the formatting is crap, blame Google Groups - I'm
at work.)

<start quote>

"I again paste below the extremely useful post to this NG (i.e.
uk.rec.caravanning) by Alun Jenkins on
9.11.06. which I thought had settled it once and for all.

"Since this debate rattles on from time to time, with much
deliberation over
how and what, I thought I'd try to get an expert view on the
feasibility of
using narcotic gases to knock out the occupants of motorhomes/
caravans.
Since they do this all the time, so to speak, I thought I'd ask the
Royal
College of Anaesthetists. Somewhat to my surprise, they provided the
following reply. Interesting isn't it? Sleep tight folks! "

"Dear Mr Kirby,
Thank you for your enquiry. I would like to inform you that you are
not the
first enquirer with this question. Professor Hatch, our Clinical
Advisor,
has given the following previous comments:
"I can give you a categorical assurance that it would not be possible
to
render someone unconscious with ether without their knowledge, even if
they
were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a
relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very
irritant
affect of the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting.
It
takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct
application to the face on a rag, and the concentration needed by some
sort
of spray into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for
days and
would be obvious to anyone the next day.
There are much more powerful agents around now, some of which are
almost
odourless. However, these would be unlikely to be able to achieve the
effect
you describe, and the cost would be huge enough to deter any thief
unless he
was after the crown jewels. The only practicable agent is probably the
one
used by the Russians in the Moscow siege - I advised the BBC on their
programme about this. The general feeling is that they used an agent
which
is not available outside the KGB!
Finally, unsupervised anaesthesia, which is what we are really talking
about
is very dangerous. In the Moscow siege about 20% of victims died from
asphyxia, because their airways were unprotected. If the reports you
talk
about are true I would have expected a significant number of deaths or
cases
of serious brain damage to have been reported."
I hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards,
Ms Shirani Nadarajah
General Administrator
Professional Standards Directorate

The Royal College of Anaesthetists"

<end quote>

That seems fairly conclusive to me.

--
Rich B
Bandit 1200S
Mark Solesbury - 27 Aug 2007 12:40 GMT
> We've muted a French Unofficial in the Summer Hols '08 next year taking in
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Lee D

We are in - Dependant on dates and cost really... Its something we would
 both love to do, just need to enure funds are avaliable :)

Signature

Mark
1996 90 300tdi
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2007 Golf GT

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Lee_D - 27 Aug 2007 16:18 GMT
Mark Solesbury
<marksolesbury@asearchenginethatnowdoeseverythingmail.com> uttered
summat worrerz funny about:

>> Anyone in dependant on date?
>>
>> Lee D
>
> We are in - Dependant on dates and cost really... Its something we
>  would both love to do, just need to enure funds are avaliable :)

Right I'm hoping we can go for early summer hols which tend to be cheaper
(though still pricey) than the latter end of the summer hols.

Lee
Paul - xxx (mobile) - 27 Aug 2007 16:59 GMT
> We've muted a French Unofficial in the Summer Hols '08 next year

> Anyone in dependant on date?

We already have plans for Northern France during the middle two weeks of
next years summer hols.  If you're all going to be there at the same
time we are we might be able pop over and join in the fun.  ;)

Signature

Paul - xxx (mobile)

Simon Isaacs - 28 Aug 2007 18:52 GMT
>We've muted a French Unofficial in the Summer Hols '08 next year taking in
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>Lee D

would have to be summer hols time for me

Parents currently at a campsite near Avrille about 70 miles to the
north, there are no tour operators there and it has most facilities.
Will find out a more precise details when they get back.
http://www.lebeauchene.com/index.html

Le Grand is a bit far for doing the British landing beaches

This one isn't bad
http://www.select-site.com/site-details.aspx?EntityId=18&Id=42846

while this one is halfway between Le Havre and Cherbourg
http://www.select-site.com/site-details.aspx?ID=31162 and isn't bad
either.  Have stayed at both.
--
"For those who are missing Blair - aim more
carefully."

To reply direct rot13 me

bURRt the 101 Camper www.simoni.co.uk
200TDi Disco with rotten floor
200 TDi DIsco, "the offroader"
1976 S3 Lightweight
 
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