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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / December 2007Landie refuses to start when wet (90 V8)
(If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's the most likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and what could I try to sort it?) This could be a rant about how something manufactured in Britain of all countries, seems to really dislike a bit of rain... but I'm asking for a solution to a probably easy problem for someone with a clue (that wouldn't be me). As stated in the title, the LR really dislikes rainy days - oh, and car washes. In fairness, it hadn't misbehaved in quite a while but today it's been pissing it down for 20 hours straight (and the vehicle is 18 years old...). When turning the key you can tell it won't start, there's no hesitation (that "getting-there-but-not-quite-yet" sound) it just spins as willing as always but sounds lifeless. I don't have any mechanical knowledge, but I had a look at the engine compartment anyway and noticed that several parts were wet, including the distributor cap. The carbs are not very well adjusted but there's not problem in the cold, only in the rain. Am I right to hope/assume that the problem is electrical rather than mechanical and what could I do to prevent this from happening again? Regards, Geo >(If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's the most >likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and what could I try [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >rain. Am I right to hope/assume that the problem is electrical rather than >mechanical and what could I do to prevent this from happening again? replace the dizzy cap and leads as a start. sounds like the electricity is leaking out. at the same time check points (if it's a points ignition, which is likely) and check or replace plugs for good measure.  SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! Austin Shackles wibbled > > (If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's > > the most likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > at the same time check points (if it's a points ignition, which is > likely) and check or replace plugs for good measure. I'd also check earth leads ... 90% or more of my (Series3) electrical problems went away when I replaced them with new ones. SignaturePaul - xxx '96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch' '98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed' Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough' >Austin Shackles wibbled > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I'd also check earth leads ... 90% or more of my (Series3) electrical >problems went away when I replaced them with new ones. valid point but dead engine in the wet which turns over well is more likely to be ignition-related. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > valid point but dead engine in the wet which turns over well is more > likely to be ignition-related. I'd definately agree. overhaul the ignition bits first. Tom Woods <tom@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >> valid point but dead engine in the wet which turns over well is more >> likely to be ignition-related. > > I'd definately agree. overhaul the ignition bits first. Get a garage to run a compresion check on each cylinder. Turning over an not starting all too well could be low compression too. Typical in an older V8 if the valves have burnt. BTDTGTTS. Have you any insulation under the bonnet? Lack of any will allow / encourage condensation to form adding to your woes. Lee D >Tom Woods <tom@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >starting all too well could be low compression too. Typical in an older V8 >if the valves have burnt. BTDTGTTS. more likely to happen all the time, though. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > Tom Woods <tom@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > not starting all too well could be low compression too. Typical in an > older V8 if the valves have burnt. BTDTGTTS. The 90 is old but it's only done 65,000 miles so the engine should be in good nick. Sounds really sweet too :-) There's also no problem whatsoever if it's not properly wet/damp. > Have you any insulation under the bonnet? Lack of any will allow / > encourage condensation to form adding to your woes. I am considering it, but as I said in another post, I don't want hot air being trapped in the compartment in the summer (I live in Crete and the radiator sometimes struggles) Geo Spray WD40 on the cap, leads and coil. That does it for mine after a bit of over enthusiastic wading! > (If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's the most > likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and what could I try [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > rain. Am I right to hope/assume that the problem is electrical rather than > mechanical and what could I do to prevent this from happening again? Just a random thought after reading the other replies. Has anyone ever used a "moisture proofing" spray on the ignition? Some of these start to actively absorb moisture after a while. WD40 sprayed onto the high voltage bits of the igntion system will probably help temporarily. SignatureTciao for Now! John. John Williamson wibbled > > (If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's > > the most likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Some of these start to actively absorb moisture after a while. We used to use (with petrol engines) a silicone based grease from a spray tin, meant for motorcycle chains. For which, incidentally, it was universally shite, but it covered everything with a very thin coat and sealed small gaps a treat. Easy to remove if necessary, easy to just wipe away for maintenance and easy to apply/re-apply. However, this has to be used initially with the engine and ignition bits absolutely dry. When done it was a barrier to water ingress, but didn't adequately disperse water already there! SignaturePaul - xxx '96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch' '98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed' Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough' Hi Geo ! > (If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's the most > likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and what could I try > to sort it?) Hope you can use this, if the WD40 don't help :-)) Troubleshooting Distributor Cap Problems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-trOYuSeYMw How to Lubricate the Plugs and Wires of your Distributor Cap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQP2WlSsH74 Kind Regards SignatureMed venlig hilsen René Løweneck http://www.loweneck.dk/rene/default.asp?PG=51 Land Rover Discovery II TD5 - The best 4x4xfar > (If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's the most > likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and what could I try [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > rain. Am I right to hope/assume that the problem is electrical rather than > mechanical and what could I do to prevent this from happening again? That has to be an ignition problem caused by water getting into the electrics. The cure is to find out how and where and stop it happening. If you have a Defender you could do what I've done and use old door seals to seal the edge of the bonnet, this seems to keep everything much dryer under there (and reduces the noise too). A wet distributor cap and plug leads are certainly going to cause problems but I can't understand where or how the water would get onto them, are there holes in the bonnet? SignatureRegards Bob Hobden 17mls W. of London.UK [Snippety snip] > A wet distributor cap and plug leads are certainly going to cause > problems but I can't understand where or how the water would get onto > them, are there holes in the bonnet? Depends where abouts in the country you are I guess. Some places seem to ooze damp and it seems to get inside everything. Here on the southcoast (Hampshire) it's relatively dry overnight (ok it rains but on the whole the air is dry). However, a few years ago I parked the Disco outside my girlfriends house down in Wiltshire (Pewsey Valley) for a few days over Christmas - and that part of the country gets seriously 'creeping damp' in the mornings, which seems to get into everything. To quote one of the locals, "it's enough to make your soul damp". Damn thing wouldn't start on Boxing day, despite me checking all the leads and using copious WD40. It turned over but just wouldn't fire. In the end, I removed all the sparkplugs one by one and cleaned each one with a tissue. After doing this with all eight I fired it up and and it managed to start. Took about 20 minutes of driving around to restore everything back to warm everything up and 'dry out'. SignatureUsenet replies: To contact me, visit http://www.vigay.com/feedback/ Life, the Universe, RISC OS Help and Everything - http://www.vigay.com/ Share and discuss ideas or chat about the above - http://forum.vigay.com/ Quality Internet, Domain Registration & Hosting - www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/ > [Snippety snip] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Depends where abouts in the country you are I guess. Some places seem to > ooze damp and it seems to get inside everything. I actually live in Crete so British-style dampness is not very common, even in the winter the weather's dequately dry most of the time. It was propbably one of the most rainy days in memory, I personally don't remember having witnessed a 20-hour downpour before - well, not on this island anyway. > Here on the southcoast (Hampshire) it's relatively dry overnight (ok it > rains but on the whole the air is dry). However, a few years ago I parked [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Took about 20 minutes of driving around to restore everything back to warm > everything up and 'dry out'. Luckily it gets dry after rain quite quickly around here, so all I had to do was leave the 90 at work (or have it leave me at work), take a cab and the next evening it just started without a problem. I'd better get this sorted before the next heavy rain. Geo >> (If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's the >> most likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and what could >> I try to sort it?) >> <snip details> > That has to be an ignition problem caused by water getting into the > electrics. The cure is to find out how and where and stop it happening. If [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > but I can't understand where or how the water would get onto them, are > there holes in the bonnet? There aren't any holes in the bonnet, one of the two plastic cover thingies that reside on top of the wings has been replaced with mesh wire however, so there might be a bit more water entering from there. I'm still a bit perplexed as to how the distributor got wet as it's a bit far for the rain to reach and the engine was dry but there you have it. That door seal idea sounds pretty handy, but then I'll have the fear that the hot air from the engine compartment can't escape easily in the summer (at least the amount that doesn't pass through the cabin).I live in Crete and it gets rather hot. Geo "Geo" wrote > > That door seal idea sounds pretty handy, but then I'll have the fear that > the hot air from the engine compartment can't escape easily in the summer > (at least the amount that doesn't pass through the cabin).I live in Crete > and it gets rather hot. I worried about that but my experience is that the engine seems to run a tiny bit cooler with the bonnet sealed at the sides, probably improves the underbonnet airflow as it will all then have to exit at the back where there is plenty of hole area instead of seeping out at the sides. The Series 111 diesel had the bonnet sealed at the sides as standard. SignatureRegards Bob Hobden > "Geo" wrote > >> That door seal idea sounds pretty handy, but then I'll have the fear that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > there is plenty of hole area instead of seeping out at the sides. > The Series 111 diesel had the bonnet sealed at the sides as standard. Excellent, I'll defintiely give it a try then. Cheers, Geo Thank you everyone for the replies, they confirmed my suspicion that it's probably an ignition thing and I now have several good pointers as to what I should do to take care of it. The 90 had left me at work so I went back the next day armed with knowledge and can of WD40 in case it was still being stubborn, but it fired up almost before I turned the ignition. I thought that all the unburnt fuel from the previous day's attempts to start the thing would have been a problem :-) So the Landie sounds and drives as sweet as it usually does and I have time to sort this slight issue this weekend. Thanks for the feedback, Geo > (If you're too bored to read the rest here's the synopsis: what's the most > likely cause of the Landie not starting when it's wet and what could I try > to sort it?) If you lift and look under the bonnet and get somebody else to try and start it when it's playing in the dark, you'll get a display of sparks if it is the HT electrics. Remedies as others have said. Cheers Graham |
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