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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / December 2007

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Loading on a roof rack

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puffernutter - 24 Dec 2007 11:38 GMT
I have a 1990 Defender 110 County.

I am travelling to Lowestoft to collect a timber 12' x 6' dog kennel and
run, the options are either use my 10' x 5' trailer and have it hanging
over the sides and ends or put it on the roof rack on the 110.

The question is, what sort of weight is a roof rack (or even the body)
good for on the 110?

Cheers

Peter
Ian Rawlings - 24 Dec 2007 11:50 GMT
> The question is, what sort of weight is a roof rack (or even the body)
> good for on the 110?

I had a heavy-duty roofrack that had strengthening struts running down
to the body cappings, but even with that, no-one could or would tell
me the maximum load.  I think the reason was because anything much on
the roof lifts the centre of gravity so high that the truck gets
*really* scary in the corners, especially with a lightly-loaded truck,
extra weight in the rear can help lower the CoG again.  If the kennel
is very heavy, e.g. it'll take more than two people to lug it around
the yard, it might be best to use the trailer, especially as it's
physically large so wind would get it and its height will raise the
CoG even higher still.

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Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Nige - 24 Dec 2007 13:19 GMT
>> The question is, what sort of weight is a roof rack (or even the
>> body) good for on the 110?
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> physically large so wind would get it and its height will raise the
> CoG even higher still.

It'll make a very nice sail too!

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Nige, talking utter shite since 1967.

Ducati 916
BMW K1100LT
MT-03
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Range Rover 4.6 HSE

NIGE#1

Dave Healey - 24 Dec 2007 13:28 GMT
>I have a 1990 Defender 110 County.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Peter

Don't even think about looking it up - it'll scare the crap out of you. 2003
CSW + roofrack + 7 people with rucksacs was - according to Landrover
overweight !!! 5.5 people and it was fine :)

Dave
Tom Woods - 24 Dec 2007 13:29 GMT
I assume the kennel is dissassembled? ;)

Its a tricky choice. A very full roofrack isnt that fun, but neither is
a trailer that overlaps the edges.

I think the ideal solution would be to borrow a 6 foot wide trailer!

How much will it overhang the front/back of the rack on the 110?

Atleast it is a tad more manageble than the 10x12 shed i moved in the
summer! Did that on a 6x12 twin axle trailer towed behind my car and did
it in 3 loads due to the weight. Only had to moved it a couple of miles
but didnt enjoy the experience much,

> I have a 1990 Defender 110 County.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Peter
Rich B - 24 Dec 2007 13:33 GMT
puffernutter typed:
> I have a 1990 Defender 110 County.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Peter

LR quote 50Kg max, I think.  Even using Ian's idea of a rack with struts to
the body cappings (a la Brownchurch) you won't find anyone who will
guarantee much more than 50Kg.  Any dog kennel  have even built weighed a
damn sight more than that, never mind one with a run attached.  Use the
trailer and make flags for the overhangy bits.

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Rich B
Ducati GT1000
Take out the obvious to email me.

Smurf - 24 Dec 2007 14:45 GMT
>>12' x 6' dog kennel

Good god ,, how big is the chuffing dog ??

..............Smurf
puffernutter - 24 Dec 2007 23:46 GMT
>>> 12' x 6' dog kennel
>
> Good god ,, how big is the chuffing dog ??
>
> ..............Smurf

Hello,

Thanks for a useful set of replies, the trailer it is then!

It is a kennel and run, it will be used to house our boys when the girls
are in season!

Have a happy and safe Christmas and may Santa bring you all that you
wish for.

Cheers

Peter
Andrew Mawson - 25 Dec 2007 09:28 GMT
> >>> 12' x 6' dog kennel
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Peter

I reckon you'll have the RSPCC after you if you put the kids in there
!

AWEM
puffernutter - 25 Dec 2007 10:12 GMT
>>>>> 12' x 6' dog kennel
>>> Good god ,, how big is the chuffing dog ??
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> AWEM

You haven't met my boys then....... :-)

Happy Christmas from a very soggy Wiltshire having just come back from
taking my boys and a girl for a run in the local country park.

Cheers

Peter
Larry - 26 Dec 2007 22:11 GMT
I am tempted to say as much as it will take without bending, I see various
data in handbooks, then you see what is put up there on transafrican
expeditions and whatnot.

I wouldn't wonder if my roofrack alone does not exceed manufacturers
recomendations.

I stand on my roof to take photographs, it's an excellent platform.

The only real bother is the effect it has on the centre of gravity.

Signature

Larry

Series 3 Rust and Holes

>I have a 1990 Defender 110 County.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Peter
Ian Rawlings - 27 Dec 2007 00:48 GMT
> I stand on my roof to take photographs, it's an excellent platform.

That's what I bought my brownchurch roofrack for, and in fact the
whole landy.  I did a few airshow shoots many years ago standing on
the roofrack or the bonnet of the landy to get over the heads of the
crowds.  Got some funny looks!

> The only real bother is the effect it has on the centre of gravity.

That was the big bother for me, it didn't take much load when moving
house to make the truck wobble alarmingly in the bends.  Mine doesn't
have anti-roll bars on the suspension though, might not be as bad if
there are anti-roll bars perhaps.

I'd still take the big kennel on the trailer though!

Signature

Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Larry - 27 Dec 2007 01:22 GMT
For what it is worth I notice the difference in handling when I put a full
jerrycan on the back door and fill my water container which stands
amidships. Though I suppose that both of those tend to lower the centre of
gravity, but when I load up the back it does make the steering light. (gotto
get myself some parabolics I suppose, but given the rest of what I need to
spend that is always for tommorow and the day after)

The most awkward load I ever carried in any vehicle was to fill my Granny to
capacity with milk cartons.

Signature

þT

L'autisme c'est moi

"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"

>> I stand on my roof to take photographs, it's an excellent platform.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> I'd still take the big kennel on the trailer though!
Pantelis Giamarellos - 27 Dec 2007 09:02 GMT
People Hi,

roofracks are always damaging to the handling of a vehicle.
Only the very light aluminium made ones tend to have smaller negative
effects.
The heavy steel (galvanised, rislan coated  etc) ones are heavy enough to
alter the center of gravity significantly even when empty.

As an example I guess it is enough to say that it takes two strong men to
handle the roofrack of a Camel Trophy specifications Discovery or Defender.
The significant limiting factors of what can be loaded onto a roofrack are
the contact points of the roofrack to the bodyshell, the amount of load that
the axles of the vehicle can tolerate and the space/volume of the roofrack.

The contact points of the roofrack are usually the ones that give up first.
On serious roofracks which are expected to carry heavy loads over very rough
terrain and for long distances the best way to secure them are to fit them
directly on a rollcage and then mount the rollcage either on extended areas
of the bodyshell (as in the case of CT specs Discos) or on the chassis
outriggers (as in the case of CT specs Defenders)
Most people though follow the route of fitting them on the rain gutters of
the roof.  On some occasions the contact points ("legs") are sturdy and
numerous enough to distribute even heavy loads onto this area.
But on certain occasions of overloaded roofracks and usually while traveling
over rough terrain at speed it happens to see the roofrack get detached from
the vehicle. (BTDT back in the early '80's while traveling with my LADA
COSACK (Niva in Greece) with about 8 windsurf boards, masts etc loaded on a
flimsy roofrack with only four legs attached to the gutters.)

The amount of load that the axles can take can be easily checked since all
Landies have the GVW quoted by the factory.

As for the volume since the upper side has only the sky as the limit it is
up to common sense to decide what is enough.

Loading a heavy item (such as a spare wheel or a full jerry can) way behind
the rear bumper always alters the "feeling" of the steering wheel and front
tyres.
Remember that the weight is actually multiplies because it is applied way
behind from the actual point of contact to the ground so the rules of
leverage apply.

As a rule of thumb it is always advisable to load heavy items with small
volume (such as water and fuel cans and reservoirs) as low and as close to
the center of gravity of the vehicle as possible.
This is where five door vehicles are useful even when only two persons
travels.  The additional two rear passengers doors provide easy access to
the fuel and water which are ideally located in the footwell area of the
rear passengers and then a flat wooden or aluminium board can make the whole
loadspace area lever from the 5th door up to the backs of the driver's and
co-driver's seats.(preferably with a mesh or bars type "dog"guard separating
the area so as to ensure that nothing will find its way to the back of their
necks when braking hard)

Spare tyres unfortunately are too bulky to be easily located inside the car
without stealing valuable space and volume.

As for the trailer I guess this is what I would choose if I were to travel
far, relatively fast and on a windy road.  Of course it is always a hassle
trying to reverse with a trailer but then again one an always detach it,
reverse and re-attach it.

Take care and happy holidays season to everybody
Pantelis

> For what it is worth I notice the difference in handling when I put a full
> jerrycan on the back door and fill my water container which stands
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> > --
> > Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
Larry - 27 Dec 2007 20:07 GMT
I have one of those heavy duty roofracks, quietly rusting away, so if I ever
want to remove  it or replace it with a lighter one I am going to have a
struggle then. My spare tyre used to live up there, but given the struggle
to get it on and off there, it now lives on the bonnet instead.

Signature

Larry

Series 3 Rust and Holes

> People Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> Take care and happy holidays season to everybody
> Pantelis
Ian Rawlings - 27 Dec 2007 20:57 GMT
> I have one of those heavy duty roofracks, quietly rusting away, so
> if I ever want to remove it or replace it with a lighter one I am
> going to have a struggle then.

Nah, I hauled a Brownchurch heavy duty on and off my 110 roof myself,
and lugged it around the garden, and I'm a not particularly strong
computer nerd.  I do have a knack for lifting heavy stuff though but
even so, it's certainly a struggle but not a major one.

Signature

Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Lee_D - 28 Dec 2007 11:48 GMT
Ian Rawlings <news06@tarcus.org.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about:

>> I have one of those heavy duty roofracks, quietly rusting away, so
>> if I ever want to remove it or replace it with a lighter one I am
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> computer nerd.  I do have a knack for lifting heavy stuff though but
> even so, it's certainly a struggle but not a major one.

Ours is quite light but still a two people job to fit without putting your
back out. I've added chequre plate floor to 2/3rd of it as I wanted to have
a platform but also to have shade under the sheet to create a safari roof
type effect in the heat of spain. This worked well when stationary and the
main heat we suffered came from the gearbox tunnel on the autoroutes.

As for getting the spare up top. I use a ratchet strap through a piece of
wood. Put the ratchet strap through the centre of the wheel then loop it
back using the wood to make a T that hooks within the wheel. With the back
door open on the 110 I can then lower the wheel down without risk of body
damage / broken windows.
I've had three or four 6ft by 6ft fence pannels up there before now but I
didn't enjoy the experience.

Lighter items when caravanning go up there, Aquarolls (empty), Sun chair
frames, lightweight tables and plastic boxes with the likes of BBQ fuel
(wrapped in a bin liner). Over the top of this lot goes the awning mesh
floor which helps reduce drag from the various items and also helps retain
the various items up there once all strapped down with three or four ratchet
straps.

Lee D
Tom Woods - 28 Dec 2007 12:03 GMT
> As for getting the spare up top. I use a ratchet strap through a piece of
> wood. Put the ratchet strap through the centre of the wheel then loop it
> back using the wood to make a T that hooks within the wheel. With the back
> door open on the 110 I can then lower the wheel down without risk of body
> damage / broken windows.

Bet you couldnt do that with a 101 wheel! ;) think im gonna make a light
ally ladder which i can slide the wheel up onto the roof with the aid of
a little hand winch.
Lee_D - 28 Dec 2007 13:09 GMT
Tom Woods <tom@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about:

>> As for getting the spare up top. I use a ratchet strap through a
>> piece of wood. Put the ratchet strap through the centre of the wheel
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> light ally ladder which i can slide the wheel up onto the roof with
> the aid of a little hand winch.

Yep a 101 tyre would be a bit more of a challenge but then again the 110 has
235/85 r16's so there isn't that much in it.

I managed to get the two petlas up there fine minus the rim when delivering
them to Simon at the August unofficial. The extra height of the 101 may just
tip the balance mind.

Bung it up front and then you can sneak about in the event of WWIII
pretending it's a split screen VW :-)

Lee D
 
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