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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / January 2008

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Still more Disco questions

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Bill - 29 Dec 2007 23:54 GMT
I'm really grateful for all the answers to questions of mine and others
here, and have now just missed two Discos on sale locally (it has taken
the NFU a long time to tell me how much the insurance would be).
I was looking for a 300 to replace my 200 Defender, but have read a lot
about TD5's, and now think I might, just might, be able to stretch the
budget to an early example.

This raises even more questions regarding the TD5.

I've read that the TD5 engine needs no catalytic converter. Is this
correct, as some on ebay seem to be listed as having these devices.

More importantly, regular readers will be reminded that I drive 100
miles, tow a boat round a field to be craned in or out (any potential
purchasers of the 110 please note that it never goes anywhere near
seawater) and then drive back. For the long drives I really want an auto
box, so the questions are now about the tractor type work at the far end
and how a TD5 Disco might cope.

The 2.5 ton boat is on a 2-wheel unsprung launching trolley-type
trailer. Thus it is prone to rock about its axle, and over larger bumps
the bow has been known to gently caress the back of the Defender's roof.
Not enough to cause any harm, but just a gentle clonk. The Defender's
rear springs cope with the movement of the boat.
So, a Disco has a rear shape that slopes forward, giving more clearance
(I've parked alongside, towbar level with towbar, and compared). But it
has softer springs, so there may be more movement. Then again TD5's seem
to (all?) have some sort of rear air springing with electronic control.
How would this electronic control work with a heavy, oscillating load
fighting it? The more I've read, the more I get confused. Is this set up
for standard road use with variable loads in the back? Does the program
change depending on the gear selected? Would the air components go bang
if suddenly faced with a heavy rocking load? I think, never having
driven an auto Disco, that I would be working in low range first gear
and reverse.

Is there a problem with supply of replacement parts for Discos? I've
been told that with D1's cracked heads do happen and the supply of
replacements is running out, also that D2's heads can't be skimmed, so
replacements for these could become in short supply. Should any of this
bother me? If I can make the Disco work, I'd aim to keep it for a long
time.

I realise, and the declining number of friends tell me, that I'm
becoming a bore on this, but I really do appreciate advice and opinions.
Signature

Bill

Rich B - 30 Dec 2007 10:08 GMT
Bill typed:

> I've read that the TD5 engine needs no catalytic converter. Is this
> correct, as some on ebay seem to be listed as having these devices.

As far as I know, ALL Td5s have cats.  It's da law.

> The 2.5 ton boat is on a 2-wheel unsprung launching trolley-type
> trailer. Thus it is prone to rock about its axle, and over larger
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Then again TD5's seem to (all?) have some sort of rear air springing
> with electronic control.

The 7-seat models all have rear air springs - not sure about the 5-seaters.
When it's working, it's an excellent system and will cope with anything you
throw at it.  It will ride level whatever the load on the towbar (within
reason, obviously) and will adjust the ride height constantly.  You don't
know it's there, except that your trailer always tows level.  The system has
the usual trouble spots, as with any vehicle - leaky air springs, duff
height sensors (both fairly easy and cheap to fix) and more serious problems
with the EAS pump (megaspensive).

> How would this electronic control work with
> a heavy, oscillating load fighting it?

Very well.  Stop worrying.

> The more I've read, the more I
> get confused. Is this set up for standard road use with variable
> loads in the back?

It's designed for variable loads - that's what it's for.

> Does the program change depending on the gear
> selected?

Not as such, but there is a driver-selectable extra-high option that gives
you another couple of inches' clearance at the back.  Ths might help with
your problem with the boat touching the rear body, too.

> Would the air components go bang if suddenly faced with a
> heavy rocking load? I think, never having driven an auto Disco, that
> I would be working in low range first gear and reverse.

No, they won't go bang.  Low range first/reverse will give you bags of
torque and control, but for manoeuvering a lighter load (1.3t caravan) I
found it almost too keen.  High range coped perfectly well.  For a 2.5t boat
and a steep slipway, low first will do anyting you need.

> Is there a problem with supply of replacement parts for Discos? I've
> been told that with D1's cracked heads do happen and the supply of
> replacements is running out, also that D2's heads can't be skimmed, so
> replacements for these could become in short supply. Should any of
> this bother me? If I can make the Disco work, I'd aim to keep it for
> a long time.

No problems, and lots of suppliers.  I'm told that Td5 heads can be skimmed,
with care.

> I realise, and the declining number of friends tell me, that I'm
> becoming a bore on this, but I really do appreciate advice and
> opinions.

Bear in mind that no Land Rover is cheap to own, but they are so capable we
don't mind!  To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the Td5 - for a 2.5 litre
common rail diesel, it's pretty feeble (136 bhp) and not economical
especially in auto form.  A V8 would be a lot cheaper to buy if you could
stand the higher fuel cost of the 100-mile stretches.  It would fit the bill
very well for all your other requirements, and be a lot more fun to drive.

I suggest you try to grab a test-drive in one, get a feel for what they are
like, and then come back with some more questions.

No question to this group is boring, as long as it's on topic (except for
"what tyres should I buy", which is always boring, every single bloody time
it comes back).  Good luck with your search.

Signature

Rich B
Ducati GT1000
Take out the obvious to email me.

Bill - 31 Dec 2007 17:06 GMT
>Bill typed:
>
>> I've read that the TD5 engine needs no catalytic converter. Is this
>> correct, as some on ebay seem to be listed as having these devices.
>
>As far as I know, ALL Td5s have cats.  It's da law.

Just so I could prove to myself that I'm not going worse, I found one of
the quotes at http://www.discoveryownersclub.org/tech/history/

"As a result of the sophisticated emissions controls, Storm meets all
current and anticipated diesel emissions laws without the need for an
exhaust catalyst."

Presumably someone failed to anticipate very well.

Thanks again for all the help. The local search continues for the right
machine...........
Signature

Bill

Rich B - 31 Dec 2007 17:29 GMT
Bill typed:
>> Bill typed:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Thanks again for all the help. The local search continues for the
> right machine...........

The only Td5s I know without cats are modified off-roaders.  They are quiet
enough, as the turbo acts as an effective silencer, but whether they would
pass an MoT on emissions is not clear.

Signature

Rich B
Ducati GT1000
Take out the obvious to email me.

Austin Shackles - 01 Jan 2008 10:21 GMT
>Bill typed:
>>> Bill typed:
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>enough, as the turbo acts as an effective silencer, but whether they would
>pass an MoT on emissions is not clear.

would in the UK as it stands now, AIUI, since it's just a smoke test, not an
analysis.  Put a non-cat pipe on the 300 TDi and it made it go quite a bit
better :-)
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
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Austin Shackles - 01 Jan 2008 10:22 GMT
>Bill typed:
>>> Bill typed:
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>enough, as the turbo acts as an effective silencer, but whether they would
>pass an MoT on emissions is not clear.

Just should add: an awake and ornery MOT-bloke might know that it "should"
have a CAT and fail you for it not being present.  Not sure if they can do
that.  But the emissions test, on diesels, per se, won't catch it.  Unless
of course you've chipped it and it makes lots of smoke :-)
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

Badger - 01 Jan 2008 10:45 GMT
> Just should add: an awake and ornery MOT-bloke might know that it "should"
> have a CAT and fail you for it not being present.  Not sure if they can do
> that.  But the emissions test, on diesels, per se, won't catch it.  Unless
> of course you've chipped it and it makes lots of smoke :-)

MOT tester can not fail it for not having a cat, it can only be failed if it
doesn't meet the smoke test limit, nothing else.
Badger.
Austin Shackles - 01 Jan 2008 18:32 GMT
>> Just should add: an awake and ornery MOT-bloke might know that it "should"
>> have a CAT and fail you for it not being present.  Not sure if they can do
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>doesn't meet the smoke test limit, nothing else.
>Badger.

hmmm.  perhaps it's C&U/type approval?  there's some kind of issue about it.
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

SteveG - 30 Dec 2007 15:34 GMT
> I've read that the TD5 engine needs no catalytic converter. Is this
> correct, as some on ebay seem to be listed as having these devices.

Hi again, Bill. There are plenty of knowledgeable D2 owners on here
who'll be able to answer your questions better than me. On the subject
of cats; I don't know if Td5 vehicles have them fitted but do remember
at least one Land Rover advert that stated the engine met the Euro 3 (or
was it Euro 2 in 1998?) levels without one.

As for your current dilemma about whether to go for a 300Tdi or Td5 I
went through the same process earlier this year and finally settled the
debate by fixing my budget and then seeing what I could get. I ended up
with a 300Tdi but with what I've spent on it since then I could have
bought a much later Td5.

Happy New Year to you, mate :-)

Signature

Regards

Steve G

 
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