Okay, what I broke now?!

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Doug Baiter - 30 Dec 2007 16:04 GMT

Off to Kirton for a playday today, got as far as the car park and
noticed a slight clutch slipping that I didn't think would merit
attention until I got home. Paid and went in, just engaged low range
and all of a sudden no drive, at all. Pedal depresses completely to
the floor with no resistance, car goes in and out of all gears nicely
with no nasty noises, in and out of low range and diff lock, but
absolutely no movement. My guess is that I've broken something in the
transfer box which is preventing drive to the wheels, because it
happened just after I changed from hi to lo, and that the clutch
slippage and sloppy pedal are completely unrelated and just a
coincidence that they've happened together. Any other guesses?

PS. Despite Kirtons policy being no refunds if you dont 'play' for
whatever reason, but they kindly gave me a credit note to get in free
next time instead. Thumbs up for them!

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Dave Liquorice - 30 Dec 2007 17:24 GMT

> Off to Kirton for a playday today, got as far as the car park and
> noticed a slight clutch slipping that I didn't think would merit
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> with no nasty noises, in and out of low range and diff lock, but
> absolutely no movement.

Assuming engine running and clutch up that indicates that there is no
drive getting to the gearbox train... I wouldn't expect a sloppy pedal to
release the clutch, so there should be drive. If there is drive getting to
the gearbox train being able to change gear with out graunching at least
some of the time in the main box and all the time in the transfer box (no
synchro) would be rather difficult.

> and that the clutch slippage and sloppy pedal are completely unrelated
> and just a coincidence that they've happened together. Any other
> guesses?

Center of clutch plate failed. Sloppy pedal because you are just moving
the plate center along the shaft as the clutch springs are no longer
acting on this part. No drive as the plate center is no longer attached to
the friction material part.

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Austin Shackles - 30 Dec 2007 18:08 GMT

>Off to Kirton for a playday today, got as far as the car park and
>noticed a slight clutch slipping that I didn't think would merit
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>slippage and sloppy pedal are completely unrelated and just a
>coincidence that they've happened together. Any other guesses?

transmission type, vehicle type, age and mileage?

do you mean the clutch pedal feels normal, or like it's not connected to
anything?

Unless the clutch driven plate has gone completely AWOL, it'd not go in and
out of gears. Clutch operation failure almost always (especially with a
hydraulic clutch) results in it staying engaged and inability to shift any
gears except with the engine off.

The most common thing (depending on vehicle) is the infamous gearbox output
shaft/transfer box input gear spline problem, I'm afraid, and it's not easy
or cheap to sort.

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Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
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Oily - 30 Dec 2007 19:10 GMT

> >Off to Kirton for a playday today, got as far as the car park and
> >noticed a slight clutch slipping that I didn't think would merit
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> shaft/transfer box input gear spline problem, I'm afraid, and it's not easy
> or cheap to sort.

Has the transfer box actually gone into low box or stuck in neutral? Or if
you've had difficulty moving the high/low lever due to stiffness through
lack of use have you been unusually over zealous with the clutch pedal
thinking to ease the situation? It's possible for the clutch slave cylinder
to seize in the out position and hold the clutch in the released position
which could also give you a sloppy pedal which may or may not pump up
because of an accumulation of filth and rust in the master cylinder as well.
In that case you would/could get the symptoms you describe and it would
select all gears easily and quietly but still have no drive. Can be checked
by releasing the two bolts that hold the slave cylinder to the bell housing
(engine stopped of course) and allowing the cylinder to swing out on the
pipe, select a gear and turn starter to see if you then have any drive. It
pays to flush out and change the clutch/brake fluids every couple of years
or so as it absorbs water in time.
Or it could be the mainshaft/transfer box splines as Austin says, or the
clutch plate centre broken though I would expect to hear some noise from
that.

HTH Martin

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Doug Baiter - 30 Dec 2007 21:23 GMT

>> >Off to Kirton for a playday today, got as far as the car park and
>> >noticed a slight clutch slipping that I didn't think would merit
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
>HTH Martin

Ooops, yes it would have helped to identify the car! Sorry, its a '91
200Tdi Defender, manual. I like your potential explanation more than
Austins - not only is it cheaper(!) but its come as a bit of
coincidence that only five days ago the following happened:
I couldn't engage any gears at all, 'graunched' despite
(normal-feeling) clutch pedal on the floor. Investigation revealed
empty master cylinder, then the pedal sank to the floor with no
resistance and still no gears. Garage picked it up and returned it a
day later with new slave cylinder on, apparently the old one became
fubar. Hi and Lo range _appear_ to engage properly, it feels just like
its always done slipping between the two, and the dashboard difflock
light comes on as it should when I slip the lever left. All gears seem
to be engaging correctly, I can feel the usual slight resistance to
second which isn't there if I go via first first (if you get my
drift!). For ease of remote diagnosis (and I have to say thanks very
much for all replies) there was _no_ accompanying nasty noises when it
happened - I just had drive, and then I didn't.
Its _possible_ that the garage didn't change the fluid when swapping
the cylinder I guess, maybe some contaminant has slipped into the
master cylinder and is keeping the clutch out

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Austin Shackles - 31 Dec 2007 23:27 GMT

>Ooops, yes it would have helped to identify the car! Sorry, its a '91
>200Tdi Defender, manual. I like your potential explanation more than
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>the cylinder I guess, maybe some contaminant has slipped into the
>master cylinder and is keeping the clutch out

sounds a possibility. worth investigating, anyway - undo the clutch slave,
see if it re-engages the clutch.

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