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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / January 2008

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Is there a list of towing allowances?

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Howie - 11 Jan 2008 08:39 GMT
Hi all.

I know my Disco will tow 3.5 tons. But does anyone know if
there's a list of towing allowances for specific vehicles? I'm
thinking of buying another car but the towing allowance will
partly determine my choice of vehicle.

TIA.

Howie.
--
www.pontinshistory.co.uk

Apply the usual ROTten Baker's-Dozen to the following to reply by email:
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Fxlcr: ubjvr10
SteveG - 11 Jan 2008 10:30 GMT
> Hi all.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> R-Znvy: hfrargNGpbnxyrl.pbQBGhx
> Fxlcr: ubjvr10

You might find what you're looking for on one of these sites:

www.gocaravanning.com

www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/kerbweights.htm

HTH :-)

Signature

Regards

Steve G

Austin Shackles - 11 Jan 2008 10:44 GMT
>Hi all.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>TIA.

try this one:

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/kerbweights.htm
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Howie - 11 Jan 2008 13:47 GMT
Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!

It looks like if I want to tow my 3.5 ton mini-digger combo, then
it has to be a LR or a Toyota Hilux!

Interesting.

Ta again for the help.
Dave - 11 Jan 2008 21:41 GMT
> Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!
>
> It looks like if I want to tow my 3.5 ton mini-digger combo, then
> it has to be a LR or a Toyota Hilux!

Or of course a Jeep ...

... I'll get my coat.

Dave.
EMB - 11 Jan 2008 21:50 GMT
> Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!
>
> It looks like if I want to tow my 3.5 ton mini-digger combo, then
> it has to be a LR or a Toyota Hilux!

You won't be doing it with a Hilux - 2250kg max towing weight.  Even a
Landcruiser is only rated to 2800kg.  A Nissan Patrol is rated to tow
3500kg.
Howie - 12 Jan 2008 09:07 GMT
|> Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!
|>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
|Landcruiser is only rated to 2800kg.  A Nissan Patrol is rated to tow
|3500kg.

Hmmm. I could have sworn I read that the hilux will tow 3500kg.

I might end-up using a transit tipper truck to do it in the end.
I wonder if ALL transits are rated as 3500 max towing weight? I
have no idea where to start checking this. I've been googling for
2 hours on this one and got nowhere!

Sorry to be a PITA, but does anyone know?

H.
Austin Shackles - 12 Jan 2008 09:49 GMT
>|> Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!
>|>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Sorry to be a PITA, but does anyone know?

not all Transits are rated thus.  On Transits, you can look at the plate
which gives a GVW and GTW figures.  The bigger transits are now over 3.5T
GVW (now known as MAM) and as such land you in tacho-territory unless you're
exempt.

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AJH - 12 Jan 2008 12:28 GMT
>The bigger transits are now over 3.5T
>GVW (now known as MAM) and as such land you in tacho-territory unless you're
>exempt.

You've got tacho, GVW (MAM) and operator's licence to consider. The
4x4 dual purpose is exempted from some of these, transit won't be.

AJH
EMB - 12 Jan 2008 11:38 GMT
> |> Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!
> |>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Sorry to be a PITA, but does anyone know?

I got my figures off the specs PDFs on the Toyyota UK website.
Austin Shackles - 12 Jan 2008 09:47 GMT
>> Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Landcruiser is only rated to 2800kg.  A Nissan Patrol is rated to tow
>3500kg.

The Landcruiser Amazon is rated 3500Kg...

and per other post, I'm fairly sure they used to rate the Daihatsu fourtrak
to 5 tonnes, with appropriate braking.  Trouble is, now the law is so keen,
all the manufacturers are playing it safe.

Having said that, I'd not really fancy any long journey in a series towing 4
tons, but it's undoubtedly capable of doing so.

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Austin Shackles - 12 Jan 2008 09:45 GMT
>Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!
>
>It looks like if I want to tow my 3.5 ton mini-digger combo, then
>it has to be a LR or a Toyota Hilux!

You didn't use the right search terms, then :-)

Note that I suspect that there's some distortion in that list: nothing is
listed as over 3500Kg.  

In the UK, you can't tow a trailer more than 3500Kg MAM (Maximum Authorised
Mass) on over-run brakes.  However, if you set up linked brakes, you can.
The point about this is not that you necessarily want to, but something
that's rated by the manufacturer to tow 5 tonnes, say) will cope with 3500Kg
better than something rated 3500Kg max.

note that some years ago, Land Rovers were rated to tow 4 tons, but that
changed not 'cos the LRs changed but because of the law - LR playing it
safe, I think.

I'm pretty sure the Daihatsu 2.8TD is rated to tow 5 tonnes, on linked
brakes in the UK, but that list doesn't have the data.

The Porsche Cayenne is listed as able to tow 3500Kg :-)

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Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
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Oily - 12 Jan 2008 11:35 GMT
> >Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> The Porsche Cayenne is listed as able to tow 3500Kg :-)

And so is/was a Range Rover AFAIR. Tow in comfort!

Martin
AJH - 12 Jan 2008 12:28 GMT
>note that some years ago, Land Rovers were rated to tow 4 tons, but that
>changed not 'cos the LRs changed but because of the law - LR playing it
>safe, I think.

They still are but only with the linked service brake and the GTW
stays the same. I reckoned that a 90 with a 5th wheel and trailer
would have the maximum carrying capacity for a non HGV but never did
figure what class license was required.

AJH
Howie - 12 Jan 2008 17:18 GMT
Bloody 'el. It's a soddin' minefield.

All I want, is to move a 2.5ton digger around my local area in
order to do some work!

I also (occasionally) need to move bulk materials (topsoil,
rocks, etc.). So I was thinking of buying a transit tipper which
is rated to tow 3.5 tons. However, I would be buying one 2nd hand
and it's pointless even viewing vehicles which don't have the
correct MTW rating.
I admit that my googling might leave a bit to be desired. But I
haven't even got close to finding the MTW for specific versions
of transit tippers which are, say, 5 years old. It's very
unlikely that any sellers are going to know the definitive
answer.

At this rate, I might as well just go all out and get a 7.5-ton
tipper truck, forget a trailer, and pop the 2.5 ton digger on the
back! It might even be worth an operator's licence fee. My mate
has a yard which he would let me use as a base for the vehicle
storage address.

I seem to remember reading that, - unless the main part of my
work is driving, I might get away with not needing a tacho, -
even for a 7.5 ton vehicle.
???

Thanks for everyone's replies. It REALLY has complicated things.
;-)

Seriously, any further suggestions are very welcome.

H.
Austin Shackles - 12 Jan 2008 21:59 GMT
>Bloody 'el. It's a soddin' minefield.
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>Seriously, any further suggestions are very welcome.

I found something about tachos in the legislation... interpretation is your
problem...:-)

I doubt you can play the non-commercial card (exception h) if you do it as a
business.  A lot of the types round here use tractors and trailers for
hauling diggers etc. around, not that I approve.

dual-purpose vehicles and any trailer are exempt from O-license, see down
the bottom somwehere... but if over the specified weight, you may still need
a tacho.

anyhow, excerpts from EC legislation follow...

Council Regulation 3821/85 of December 20, 1985

[1. Recording equipment shall be installed and used in vehicles registered
in a Member State which are used for vehicles referred to in Article 3 of
Regulation (EC) No 561/2006. Vehicles referred to in Article 16(1) of
Regulation (EC) No 561/2006 and vehicles, which were exempt from the scope
of application of Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85, but which are no longer
exempt under Regulation (EC) No 561/2006 shall have until 31 December 2007
to comply with this requirement.] [EC 561/2006 - 11 April 2007]

REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of
15 March 2006
Article 1

This Regulation lays down rules on driving times, breaks and rest periods
for drivers engaged in the carriage of goods and passengers by road in order
to harmonise the conditions of competition between modes of inland
transport, especially with regard to the road sector, and to improve working
conditions and road safety. This Regulation also aims to promote improved
monitoring and enforcement practices by Member States and improved working
practices in the road transport industry.

Article 2

1. This Regulation shall apply to the carriage by road:

     (a) of goods where the maximum permissible mass of the vehicle,
including any trailer, or semi-trailer, exceeds 3,5 tonnes, or

     (b) of passengers by vehicles which are constructed or permanently
adapted for carrying more than nine persons including the driver, and are
intended for that purpose.

2. This Regulation shall apply, irrespective of the country of registration
of the vehicle, to carriage by road undertaken:

     (a) exclusively within the Community; or

     (b) between the Community, Switzerland and the countries party to the
Agreement on the European Economic Area.

3. The AETR shall apply, instead of this Regulation, to international road
transport operations undertaken in part outside the areas mentioned in
paragraph 2, to:

     (a) vehicles registered in the Community or in countries which are
contracting parties to the AETR, for the whole journey;

     (b) vehicles registered in a third country which is not a contracting
party to the AETR, only for the part of the journey on the territory of the
Community or of countries which are contracting parties to the AETR.

The provisions of the AETR should be aligned with those of this Regulation,
so that the main provisions in this Regulation apply, through the AETR, to
such vehicles for any part of the journey made within the Community.

Article 3

This Regulation shall not apply to carriage by road by:

     (a) vehicles used for the carriage of passengers on regular services
where the route covered by the service in question does not exceed 50
kilometres;

     (b) vehicles with a maximum authorised speed not exceeding 40
kilometres per hour;

     (c) vehicles owned or hired without a driver by the armed services,
civil defence services, fire services, and forces responsible for
maintaining public order when the carriage is undertaken as a consequence of
the tasks assigned to these services and is under their control;

     (d) vehicles, including vehicles used in the non-commercial transport
of humanitarian aid, used in emergencies or rescue operations;

     (e) specialised vehicles used for medical purposes;

     (f) specialised breakdown vehicles operating within a 100 km radius of
their base;

     (g) vehicles undergoing road tests for technical development, repair
or maintenance purposes, and new or rebuilt vehicles which have not yet been
put into service;

     (h) vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible
mass not exceeding 7,5 tonnes used for the non-commercial carriage of goods;

     (i) commercial vehicles, which have a historic status according to the
legislation of the Member State in which they are being driven and which are
used for the non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods.

O-licenses:

Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995 (c. 23)

2. Obligation to hold operator’s licence.

(1) Subject to subsection (2) and section 4, no person shall use a goods
vehicle on a road for the carriage of goods :-

     (a) for hire or reward, or

     (b) for or in connection with any trade or business carried on by him,

except under a licence issued under this Act; and in this Act such a licence
is referred to as an 'operator’s licence'.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to :-

     (a) the use of a small goods vehicle within the meaning given in
Schedule 1;

     (b) the use of a goods vehicle for international carriage by a haulier
established in a member State other than the United Kingdom and not
established in the United Kingdom;

     (c) the use of a goods vehicle for international carriage by a haulier
established in Northern Ireland and not established in Great Britain; or

     (d) the use of a vehicle of any class specified in regulations.

(3) In subsection (2)(b) and (c) 'established' , 'haulier' and
'international carriage' have the same meaning as in Community Council
Regulation (EEC) No.881/92 dated 26 March 1992 concerning access to the
market in the carriage of goods by road within the Community to or from the
territory of a member State or passing across the territory of one or more
member States.

(4) It is hereby declared that, for the purposes of this Act, the
performance by a local or public authority of their functions constitutes
the carrying on of a business.

(5) A person who uses a vehicle in contravention of this section is guilty
of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level
5 on the standard scale.

The Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Regulations 1995
Statutory Instrument 1995 No. 2869

SCHEDULE 3

Regulation 33
CLASSES OF VEHICLES FOR WHICH A LICENCE IS NOT REQUIRED
PART I

1. Any tractor as defined in paragraph 4(3) of Part IV of Schedule 1 to the
Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (as originally enacted) while being
used for one or more of the purposes specified in Part II of this Schedule.

2. A dual-purpose vehicle and any trailer drawn by it.

3. A vehicle used on a road only in passing from private premises to other
private premises in the immediate neighbourhood belonging (except in the
case of a vehicle so used only in connection with excavation or demolition)
to the same person, provided that the distance travelled on a road by any
such vehicle does not exceed in the aggregate 9.654 kilometres, (6 miles),
in any one week.

4. A motor vehicle constructed or adapted primarily for the carriage of
passengers and their effects, and any trailer drawn by it, while being so
used.

5. A vehicle which is being used for funerals.

6. A vehicle which is being used for police, fire brigade [or, in England,
fire and rescue authority] or ambulance purposes [The Fire and Rescue
Services Act 2004 (Consequential Amendments) (England) Order 2004 -
30/12/2004].

7. A vehicle which is being used for fire-fighting or rescue operations at
mines.

8. A vehicle on which no permanent body has been constructed, which is being
used only for carrying burden which either is carried solely for the purpose
of test or trial, or consists of articles and equipment which will form part
of the completed vehicle when the body is constructed.

9. A vehicle which is being used under a trade licence.

10. A vehicle in the service of a visiting force or of a headquarters.

11. A vehicle used by or under the control of Her Majesty’s United Kingdom
forces.

12. A trailer not constructed primarily for the carriage of goods but which
is being used incidentally for that purpose in connection with the
construction, maintenance or repair of roads.

13. A road roller and any trailer drawn by it.

14. A vehicle while being used under the direction of HM Coastguard or of
the Royal National Lifeboat Institution for the carriage of life-boats,
life-saving appliances or crew.

15. A vehicle fitted with a machine, appliance, apparatus or other
contrivance which is a permanent or essentially permanent fixture, provided
that the only goods carried on the vehicle are :-

     (a) required for use in connection with the machine, appliance,
apparatus or contrivance or the running of the vehicle;

     (b) to be mixed by the machine, appliance, apparatus or contrivance
with other goods not carried on the vehicle on a road in order to thrash,
grade, clean or chemically treat grain;

     (c) to be mixed by the machine, appliance, apparatus or contrivance
with other goods not carried on the vehicle in order to make fodder for
animals; or

     (d) mud or other matter swept up from the surface of a road by the use
of the machine, appliance, apparatus or other contrivance.

16. A vehicle while being used by a local authority for the purposes of the
enactments relating to weights and measures or the sale of food and drugs.

17. A vehicle while being used by a local authority in the discharge of any
function conferred on or exercisable by that authority under Regulations
made under the Civil Defence Act 1948.

18. A steam-propelled vehicle.

19. A tower wagon or trailer drawn thereby, provided that the only goods
carried on the trailer are goods required for use in connection with the
work on which the tower wagon is ordinarily used as such.

20. A vehicle while being used for the carriage of goods within an aerodrome
within the meaning of section 105(1) of the Civil Aviation Act 1982.

21. An electrically propelled vehicle.

22. A showman’s goods vehicle and any trailer drawn thereby.

23. A vehicle permitted to carry out cabotage in the United Kingdom under
Community Council Regulation (EEC) No. 3118/93 dated 25 October 1993 laying
down conditions under which non-resident carriers may operate national road
haulage services within a Member State.

24. A goods vehicle first used before 1 January 1977 which has an unladen
weight not exceeding 1525 kilograms and for which the maximum gross weight,
as shown on a plate affixed to the vehicle by virtue of regulation 66 of the
Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 or any provision
which that regulation replaced, exceeds 3500 kilograms but does not exceed
3556.21 kilograms (3 1/2tons).

25. A vehicle while being used by a highway authority for the purposes of
section 196 the Road Traffic Act 1988.

26. A vehicle being held ready for use in an emergency by an undertaking for
the supply of water, electricity, gas or telephone services.

27. A recovery vehicle.

28. A vehicle which is being used for snow clearing, or for the distribution
of grit, salt or other materials on frosted, icebound or snowcovered roads
or for going to or from the place where it is to be used for the said
purposes or for any other purpose directly connected with those purposes.

29. A vehicle proceeding to or from a station provided by the Secretary of
State under section 45 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 for the purposes of an
examination of that vehicle under that section provided that :-

     (a) the only load being carried is a load required for the purposes of
the examination; and

     (b) it is being carried at the request of the Secretary of State.
Signature

Austin Shackles.  www.ddol-las.net  my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy!  Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\  
  >>  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/  <<      \  ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

SteveG - 15 Jan 2008 00:23 GMT
> Bloody 'el. It's a soddin' minefield.
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> H.

Howie, Austin has provided chapter and verse from the legislation
regarding tachographs. From experience, I don't see how you can be
exempt from using a tacho if you're driving for hire or reward (i.e. you
are driving because you need to in order to fulfil your work). A further
complication may arise if you're considering a used 7.5T vehicle in that
it will (most likely) be fitted with an analogue tacho and may not be
suitable for updating to the newer digital ones, which has to be done on
all 7.5T vehicles within the next few years. Sorry don't remember the
dates involved but you'll probably find the info on the DoT or VOSA web
sites.

As for weights for Transit type vehicles, why not speak to a local hire
company or 2nd hand commercial dealer. Aside from Ford I'd think they
might be able to help.

HTH

Signature

Regards

Steve G

Howie - 15 Jan 2008 07:12 GMT
|Howie, Austin has provided chapter and verse from the legislation
|regarding tachographs. From experience, I don't see how you can be
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
|
|HTH

Steve. I'm _really_ not complaining. I certainly appreciate the
help (Thank Austin, you, and others). I will be following the
suggestions made.
I'm just a bit surprised that MTWs for each vehicle (particularly
transits), isn't easily available.

I have some time to consider my plans yet. the advice I've had
here is invaluable.

Cheers for now.

H.
AJH - 15 Jan 2008 10:49 GMT
>> Bloody 'el. It's a soddin' minefield.

Yup but interestingly this also makes prosecutions difficult for the
police. The legislation is all aimed at safety though.

>> All I want, is to move a 2.5ton digger around my local area in
>> order to do some work!

I pointed you to the areas of legislation you need to comply with but
IANAL, Austin quoted chapter and verse. It's the fact that it is for
work, as Steve says, that makes life difficult.

>> At this rate, I might as well just go all out and get a 7.5-ton
>> tipper truck, forget a trailer, and pop the 2.5 ton digger on the
>> back! It might even be worth an operator's licence fee. My mate
>> has a yard which he would let me use as a base for the vehicle
>> storage address.

This may well be the best way, land rovers and trailers can be
inconvenient in many places compared with a little 4 wheeler.

>> I seem to remember reading that, - unless the main part of my
>> work is driving, I might get away with not needing a tacho, -
>> even for a 7.5 ton vehicle.
>> ???
<snip>

>Howie, Austin has provided chapter and verse from the legislation
>regarding tachographs. From experience, I don't see how you can be
>exempt from using a tacho if you're driving for hire or reward (i.e. you
>are driving because you need to in order to fulfil your work).

As at 2000 the exemptions for tacho were:

Vehicles exempt from O licence

Less than 4 hours driving within 50km of operating centre

When vehicle is driven for less than half the working day ( which I
guess is 4 hours?? and makes the 50km radius seem redundant).

Now interpretation of the exact rules may be difficult but wrt land
rovers, the exemption that best fits is  the fact that a dual purpose
vehicle towing a 3.5 tonne trailer is exempt from O license, the
transits won't be but may fit with the other categories.

AJH
 
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