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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / January 2008Feckin SORN
forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, the thing is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the road, and simple oversite gonna cost me bastards. Tax if you do use it and taxed if you dont. Grrrrr, tony > forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, the thing > is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the road, and simple [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > tony Yeah I hate that... My range rover will not ever doubtably see tarmac again... I only keep it cause i like the sound of it!  SignatureMark 1996 90 300tdi 1987 RR V8 EFI 2007 Golf GT http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/ - Firefox Rules! http://fireftp.mozdev.org/ - FTP Plugin for Firefox http://ietab.mozdev.org/ - IE tab. Get Windows updates in Firefox Tony wibbled > forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, > the thing is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the road, > and simple oversite gonna cost me bastards. Tax if you do use it and > taxed if you dont. Isn't that the one you <cough> sold [1] last November, for which you have an illegible handwritten receipt, but for which you couldn't find the logbook, but the byer didn't mind as he was using it solely in off-road competitions? ;) Mates excuse, which he somehow, so he says, got away with ... but which I'm inclined to actually believe. SignaturePaul - xxx '96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch' '98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed' Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough' > forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, the thing > is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the road, and simple [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > tony if you can find a proof of posting certificate for a dvla address from before the sorn ran out you could write them a letter including it saying it must have got lost in the post. Or use the same approach to say you sent the v5 back and scrapped it. >> forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, the thing >> is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the road, and simple [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >saying it must have got lost in the post. >Or use the same approach to say you sent the v5 back and scrapped it. If you "scrap" it, then it precludes anyone ever rebuilding it without having to re-register it. apart from that... SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! >forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, the thing >is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the road, and simple >oversite gonna cost me bastards. Tax if you do use it and taxed if you dont. they got me for that on the bike, buggrem, last year. There's no good reason why SORN need renewing, it's simply an excuse to extort money. Lets all write to the MPs about it. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > There's no good reason why SORN need renewing, it's simply an excuse to > extort money. Tis indeed. The bastards do the same thing here, but at least all they do is hit your for the tax otherwise payable, not with a fine. >> There's no good reason why SORN need renewing, it's simply an excuse to >> extort money. > >Tis indeed. The bastards do the same thing here, but at least all they >do is hit your for the tax otherwise payable, not with a fine. that could be worse, depending on how long it'd been untaxed. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > that could be worse, depending on how long it'd been untaxed. They do actually send a reminder, and will generally accept non-receipt of said reminder as an excuse for not doing it. They also keep sending you shitty letters if you forget so it's unlikely to be overlooked for long (and with vehicle tax at around 100 quid a year even paying a couple of months worth doesn't hurt the pocket too much). >> that could be worse, depending on how long it'd been untaxed. > They do actually send a reminder, and will generally accept non-receipt > of said reminder as an excuse for not doing it. They also keep sending > you shitty letters if you forget so it's unlikely to be overlooked for > long (and with vehicle tax at around 100 quid a year even paying a > couple of months worth doesn't hurt the pocket too much). In my first experience of SORN I assumed in my naivety that as the form did not mention any timescale for notification that there was no hurry. It came as a bit of a shock therefore to receive a 'bill'. I paid up with a covering letter demanding a refund as I believed, having read the form numerous times, that this was not a time-dependant activity. I also suggested that there was considerable lack of clarity as to their requirement and that a rewording would be to everyone's benefit. Surprisingly, I got my money back. I don't think that the wording on the form has changed. In message <47893ebd$1@news01.wxnz.net>, EMB <embtwo@gmail.com> writes >> that could be worse, depending on how long it'd been untaxed. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >long (and with vehicle tax at around 100 quid a year even paying a >couple of months worth doesn't hurt the pocket too much). Tell them you were too busy and it was just an administrative oversight as you had more important things to do like earning a living or running Wales whatever excuses Hain comes up with. Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting >Tell them you were too busy and it was just an administrative oversight >as you had more important things to do like earning a living or running >Wales whatever excuses Hain comes up with. "Excuses only accepted if the illegality is over £100,000. Less than that and it's all your fault." Can't we just repatriate him? Regards, Simonm. Signaturesimonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/ GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TDi'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/ Austin Shackles typed: >> forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, >> the thing is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > There's no good reason why SORN need renewing, it's simply an excuse > to extort money. I reckon the revenue-raising thing is secondary. The main purpose is to introduce an extra hassle-factor into owning an older vehicle, which will, in time, make people give up and scrap them for good, thereby appeasing their chums in the "green" lobby. The historic vehicle tax exemption really was a bit of an own-goal for Labour and its "green" credentials. That's "green" rather than green, by the way :-) SignatureRich B Take out the obvious to email me. A life? Cool - where can I download one of those? >forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, the thing >is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the road, and simple [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >tony I've molished a petition about it. assuming they allow it - there's another one calling for it to be scrapped, but that ain't gonna happen. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! Austin Shackles wibbled > > forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, > > the thing is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > another one calling for it to be scrapped, but that ain't gonna > happen. Can't find yours. Saw the other one, but that sounds very weak and knee-jerk rather than useful. SignaturePaul - xxx '96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch' '98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed' Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough' >Austin Shackles wibbled > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Can't find yours. Saw the other one, but that sounds very weak and >knee-jerk rather than useful. it's not there yet, they have to approve it before they put it up. I'll let you know if they do. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! Austin Shackles wibbled > > Austin Shackles wibbled > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > it's not there yet, they have to approve it before they put it up. > I'll let you know if they do. Cheers Austin. SignaturePaul - xxx '96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch' '98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed' Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough' >> I've molished a petition about it. assuming they allow it > > Can't find yours. Saw the other one, but that sounds very weak and > knee-jerk rather than useful. No point in any of them, the government won't pay any attention. How many million signed one a little while back on some other road/vehicle related subject. Governments response, bascially ignore the petition. They are just a sop to those that misguidely think that the government will pay any attention. The only way to get the goverments attention is to wind up your MP and get him to ask questions of ministers/PM or start a bill. Early Day motions are not particulary rated as a method of getting attention paid to subjects. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail > The only way to get the goverments attention is to wind up your MP and get > him to ask questions of ministers/PM or start a bill. TBH that's not much more effective, you have to get something that catches your MP's eye, won't do his/her career any damage and is more important than anything else they're dealing with at the time. The more methods the better, you need to make noise basically. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! >>> I've molished a petition about it. assuming they allow it >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >are just a sop to those that misguidely think that the government will pay >any attention. Way I see it, it costs nothing (to me, directly) and it can't achieve less than doing sod-all. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > forgot to renew last years SORn and now bin slapped with £40 fine, the > thing is just a rusting ulk that i'll never put back on the road, and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > tony Accept that you have forgotten. Contact the DVLA and tell them so, assure them the vehicle is still off the road. They may overturn the fine. They may insist you pay. If they insist you pay you're sure to remember next year. You could of course lie but that wouldn't be right and you would be commiting offences in doing so. I guess you already know what you are going to do and the comments are purely a vent of frustration. I'd be frustrated too, then I'd kick myself and cough up. Lee D > Accept that you have forgotten. Contact the DVLA and tell them so, assure > them the vehicle is still off the road. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > already know what you are going to do and the comments are purely a vent of > frustration. I can tell youve not dealt with the DVLA before! :) It took me 2 letters after i got fined through an error on their behalf before they would admit they were in the wrong! There aint no chance theyre going to let you off! and how stupid is it that you have to tell them every 12 months that nothing has changed with the SORNed vehicle. in a sensible system they could just assume that once initially sorned it stayed sorned until you taxed it again... > and how stupid is it that you have to tell them every 12 months that > nothing has changed with the SORNed vehicle. in a sensible system they > could just assume that once initially sorned it stayed sorned until you > taxed it again... ah, but then they can justify their existence annually.... Steve >> Accept that you have forgotten. Contact the DVLA and tell them so, assure >> them the vehicle is still off the road. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > could just assume that once initially sorned it stayed sorned until you > taxed it again... If the system were sensible then people wouldn't use them with no Tax and there would be no need for the system or the need for so much admin when a vehicle changes hands. Yes I see your point but having spent so long dealing with criminals using pool motors and having to balance the cost of recovery and disposal to the council tax payer of those vehicles whilst not actually breaking the law ourselves is a bit of a minefield. Hence the system we all know and love. It's not hard - when you sorn it you know you need to do it twelve months later. Fair enough people forget , thats why the DVLA send reminders, still doesn't stop busy people forgetting mind... which reminds me the Tax is due on the RR this month :-) I'm not saying it's ideal but the idea of lieing my way out of forgetfullness is not one which I would personally choose, I'm a firm beleiver that the bigger system will somehow make me pay tenfold. Just my 2p worth mind. All boils down to where you draw your personal line in the sand, many play the systems as a game, for me life is to short so I just work with the system :-) Lee D > If the system were sensible then people wouldn't use them with no Tax and > there would be no need for the system or the need for so much admin when a > vehicle changes hands. People use vehicles without tax and insurance because they can get away with it, and if they are caught the consequences aren't too draconian to accept ! If our PCSOs were any use, they could keep an eye open for violations.... Steve >> If the system were sensible then people wouldn't use them with no Tax and >> there would be no need for the system or the need for so much admin when [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with it, and if they are caught the consequences aren't too draconian to > accept ! Not entering in to that debate, not my corner to fight so to speak. That be a matter for your magistrates. Of course the cost of a Taxi home and car being crushed may be enough to send some in to a spiral of instant debt so much so they have to sell the plasma screen and surround sound system. > If our PCSOs were any use, they could keep an eye open for violations.... > > Steve H''mm quick google and thus far computer says no. 1.. Issue Fixed Penalty Notices (FPNs) for offences of disorder 2.. Detain for up to 30 minutes suspects who fail to give details 3.. Use reasonable force to detain as at 2 4.. Impose requirements and dispose of alcohol consumed in designated public places 5.. Enter any premises to save life and limb or prevent serious damage to property 6.. Carry out PACE road checks and stop vehicles to do so 7.. Stop and search vehicles & belongings in areas authorised under the Terrorism Act 2000. 8.. Seize vehicles used to cause alarm etc. 9.. Issue Fixed Penalty Notices for offences of cycling on footways, dog fouling, litter 10.. Require name and address from suspects 11.. Require name and address from person acting in anti-social manner 12.. Confiscate and dispose of alcohol from young persons 13.. Seize and dispose of tobacco from young persons 14.. Authorise removal of abandoned vehicles 15.. Stop vehicles for testing 16.. Make traffic directions for abnormal vehicles. Maybe time to write to your MP. Get more Police powers for your PCSO's but wouldn't that make them Police officers eventually policing on the cheap? Alternatively if a jobs worth doing..... http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022073 Lee D >Hence the system we all know and love. It's not hard - when you sorn it you >know you need to do it twelve months later. Fair enough people forget , >thats why the DVLA send reminders, still doesn't stop busy people forgetting >mind... which reminds me the Tax is due on the RR this month :-) they don't make any guarantee to send out reminders, for SORN or licences. thus, if it doesn't show, you can't complain. nevertheless, having to renew SORN is a pain and totally unnecessary. Once it's SORN, it's flagged as "shouldn't be on the road" and should show up instantly as such when you boys check the number plate. It remains off-road unless or until it's re-licensed. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! >>Hence the system we all know and love. It's not hard - when you sorn it you >>know you need to do it twelve months later. Fair enough people forget , [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > instantly as such when you boys check the number plate. It remains off-road > unless or until it's re-licensed. It's a bit more of the 'Big Brother' - they want to keep regular tabs on where it's located too. >thats why the DVLA send reminders If the reminder doesn't arrive it's no excuse either, DVLA send out reminders as a courtesy not a right. AJH > If the system were sensible then people wouldn't use them with no Tax > and there would be no need for the system or the need for so much admin > when a vehicle changes hands. Quite, if people obeyed the law then a awful lot of other laws wouldn't be required to try and make people obey the original one. This particulary government seems to think simply introducing a new law will make people obey. Trouble is half the time the people they want to target are already happy to operate outside the law, so ignoring one more isn't going to make any difference. Wish I could remember what I heard on the radio this morning that fitted this description. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >>If the system were sensible then people wouldn't use them with no Tax >>and there would be no need for the system or the need for so much admin [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Wish I could remember what I heard on the radio this morning that fitted > this description. Firearms of some description? Dave Liquorice <new5pam@howhill.com> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >> If the system were sensible then people wouldn't use them with no Tax >> and there would be no need for the system or the need for so much [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Wish I could remember what I heard on the radio this morning that > fitted this description. I propose any crime committed at the weekend or outside the hours of 10 till 4pm is made illegal. Maybe I could get weekends off then. :-) Lee D > I propose any crime committed at the weekend or outside the hours of 10 till > 4pm is made illegal. > > Maybe I could get weekends off then. :-) Yes, we could slash pay rates then too :-) Steve Steve Taylor <steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >> I propose any crime committed at the weekend or outside the hours of >> 10 till 4pm is made illegal. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Steve :-) Too late, they already have! Fortunately the PCSO's and Civvys got there full rise backdated to go along with the shift allowance which I don't get and the 8 days extra leave I don't get. I still wouldn't swap them mind but it does make you wonder. :-) Lee D > Too late, they already have! > > Fortunately the PCSO's and Civvys got there full rise backdated to go along > with the shift allowance which I don't get and the 8 days extra leave I > don't get. You're still getting a lot more than I can afford to increase myself by, which is zero this year, and last. Steve Steve Taylor <steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about: >> Too late, they already have! >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Sounds like you need a PCSO application form. Kill two birds with one stone. :-) Lee D > Sounds like you need a PCSO application form. Kill two birds with one stone. Nah, I like to work for a living. Steve > You're still getting a lot more than I can afford to increase myself by, > which is zero this year, and last. Ah but you'll be getting far more tax breaks than the wage slaves on PAYE... SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >> You're still getting a lot more than I can afford to increase myself by, >> which is zero this year, and last. > > Ah but you'll be getting far more tax breaks than the wage slaves on > PAYE... I AM on PAYE. Just because you own the company doesn't let you evade that. Steve >>> You're still getting a lot more than I can afford to increase myself by, >>> which is zero this year, and last. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Steve which reminds me, I still haven't filed last year's tax return. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! >> Ah but you'll be getting far more tax breaks than the wage slaves on >> PAYE... > > I AM on PAYE. Just because you own the company doesn't let you evade > that. Ah so you are an employee of your own company, rather than a Director taking "drawings" but as an employee you are entitled to milage at 40p/mile, roughly £19/day for meals and another £50ish for every 24hr period you are away from "base", non-taxable and an non-taxable expense to the business. The company also gets significant tax breaks and as the company money is sort of your earnings those tax breaks are to your benefit as well. I know I have paid far far less tax since becoming freelance (sole trader/selfemployed) than I used to on PAYE. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >>> Ah but you'll be getting far more tax breaks than the wage slaves on >>> PAYE... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >I know I have paid far far less tax since becoming freelance (sole >trader/selfemployed) than I used to on PAYE. This year is no exception to my policy of having taxable profits under the threshold. The only main drawbacl is that unless you do this by some species of money-laundering, it means you've got no money. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > Ah so you are an employee of your own company, rather than a Director > taking "drawings" but as an employee you are entitled to milage at > 40p/mile, roughly £19/day for meals and another £50ish for every 24hr > period you are away from "base", non-taxable and an non-taxable expense to > the business. Err, can you point me at the Inland Revenue references for that ? We take a maximum of 10 quid per day tax free PD, for all work out of the office. We are told that is all we can claim, despite the disruption of working in Asia, Europe and the US for three months of the last 10. Steve >>> Ah but you'll be getting far more tax breaks than the wage slaves on >>> PAYE... [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Cheers new5pam@howhill.com >Dave. pam is missing e-mail But the rules for sole trader are significantly different to limited company. Being a Director actually tightens the rules in some respects especially with regard to annualisation of NIC contributions. Any fixed allowances as opposed to expenses at cost have to be agreed with HMRC or are otherwise treated as income. (As I remember it from awhile ago) Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > Any fixed allowances as opposed to expenses at cost have to be agreed > with HMRC or are otherwise treated as income. (As I remember it from > awhile ago) I could be wrong as well but provided the fixed allowances (aka Scale Rates, not some other allowance that I can't remember the name of now) are set to only cover the costs incurred by the employee then they do not require HMR&C approval. The employer will have to be able to prove that the Scale Rates used fulfill that though and HMR&C don't offer any guideline rates. SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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