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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / May 2008series clutch probs (part 2!)
Series 2A with a series 3 g/box and clutch: I replaced the master and slave cylinders tonight, and now i have even less clutch as the pedal appears to get stuck about 3/4 of the way down its travel! After i first put it together and bled it once it felt almost right. Then i bled it some more and pumped the pedal a lot as i had just greased the pivot as it was sticking. Felt like it was working. Then i stopped messing about inside and went and tightened the loose nuts on the master cylinder shaft and on the first press of the pedal it no longer went to the bottom of the travel anymore. It is solid at the bottom about an inch off the floor. Have i over extended something by getting the master cyl shaft length wrong? or is there something else likely broken somewhere? suggestions? How the pedal is now is exactly how it was when i first tried to move the thing last year after it had sat - and it didnt free off then until i jumped on it. What should i do next? > Series 2A with a series 3 g/box and clutch: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > What should i do next? Is the pivot free on the pedal ? Sounds like the only bit you've not changed. You really should drive it more. Another fix would be to do like I did, remove the clutch pedal, walk to the wheelie bin and throw the muther in there! Then fit a proper gearbox ;-) Lee D >> Series 2A with a series 3 g/box and clutch: >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > You really should drive it more. I'd love to! - but this clutch has been gone for pretty much the last 6 weeks and ive only just found the round tuits to fix it - and despite throwing bits at it (new OEM master and slave to try to make sure I found the problem first time!). I'm always too busy :( If it was anything other than the clutch that had gone (thus making it undrivable) i'd have taken it somewhere to have it fixed for me! > Another fix would be to do like I did, remove the clutch pedal, walk to > the wheelie bin and throw the muther in there! Then fit a proper gearbox > ;-) I'd ideally love an auto in the 101, then the 101 box could go in the 2A along with my spare v8!... maybe next year.... >I'd ideally love an auto in the 101 The chap I work for has just been offered a v cheap, one owner p38 4.6hse with dodgy central locking. He's humming and arring on it but I'd like it just as a donor engine plus gearbox for my rusting heap. AJH > Series 2A with a series 3 g/box and clutch: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > What should i do next? It's very hard sometimes to visualise what's wrong when you are not actually looking at it. Could be that you have damaged the pivot by "jumping" on it last year or that one of the pins on the cross shaft into the bellhousing was partly sheared or fell out by "pumping it a lot" as you say. The first thing to ascertain is that the master cylinder is working as it should and you can do this by first making sure that the adjustable rod has some free play when the piston is on the start of it's stroke, that it will travel freely all the way down with the pipe disconnected and finally with a bleed screw or 3/8" UNF nipped up in the hole for the pipe that you then have a pedal that is solid at the top and won't travel at all. Then check that you can push the slave cylinder rod at least 1/2" back up into the cylinder from about the middle of it's travel to allow for clutch wear and remove any external spring on the linkage. This makes it self adjusting. Originally they were fitted with a return spring and had to be readjusted every so often to allow for the wear. If there is a circlip in the bottom of the slave cylinder (as there was originally), make sure the piston is not coming into contact with this when the pedal is pressed. This may be the reason for only having 3/4 travel on the pedal which can be rectified by lengthening the rod. This usually happens when one of the aforementioned pins breaks or shears and puts the lever out of position. HTH Oily Refit the pipe, bleed and try again Ta mate, how much free play should it have? will try as you suggest and test the master goes solid if blocked and will squirt fluid and move all the way if disconncted. brand new lucas unit so should be fine.. Diagnosing slave problems is hard as it is such a f.cker to get on and off - its a 2a chassis and i didnt grind enough of the lip off the x-member below it before fitting the s3 box and its really tight down there :( I'm almost tempted to make the cross member removable and just making a bolt on brace. Are you saying that i can lengthen the slave cylinder rod? does it come out of the box? (too long since i last looked - and its a dark oily hole at the mo only accessible from under the truck which is stuck right by the hedge so accessible only from the other side!). Does the rod at the slave end just sit in a socket inside the bell housing? I didnt pull it out this time. perhaps i should remove it and check if i've bent it or something? - is this possible? > It's very hard sometimes to visualise what's wrong when you are not actually > looking at it. Could be that you have damaged the pivot by "jumping" on it [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > HTH Oily > Refit the pipe, bleed and try again >I'm almost tempted to make the cross member removable and just making a >bolt on brace. The 109 2a military chassis, and probably others, had a removable cross member, so the part may be readily available. AJH > Series 2A with a series 3 g/box and clutch: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > no longer went to the bottom of the travel anymore. It is solid at the > bottom about an inch off the floor. It sounds like the release bearing is sticking rather than returning fully. Has it had water in the bell housing? >> Series 2A with a series 3 g/box and clutch: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > It sounds like the release bearing is sticking rather than returning > fully. Has it had water in the bell housing? I dont think its had water in. It was fine before being parked up for 18 months and wasnt offroaded before hand (dont think it has ever been off roaded with that gearbox in). There was only a bit of crud in the slave cyl hole - no more than i'd expect in a landy! I replaced the release bearing 3 or 4 years ago because the bearing siezed and it melted back into the body (it is a plastic body!). The replacement was plastic also though (all i could get). If i wasnt so sh.t at aligning the gearbox and engine i'd be tempted to pull the gearbox out and look at it - i need to change my seatbox anyhow.. > >> Series 2A with a series 3 g/box and clutch: > >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > If i wasnt so sh.t at aligning the gearbox and engine i'd be tempted to > pull the gearbox out and look at it - i need to change my seatbox anyhow.. Ah, I didn't know it had a series 3 gearbox in it, there's not much to go wrong there. If the master cylinder checks out ok then it's probably the release bearing carrier that's knackered again. It's not advisable to remove the slave rod from the bell housing as you may not get it back in it's plastic clip, a bit awkward but can be done. The master should only have about a millimetre of free play but it is essential. Unless you've some stripped threads on the bolts that hold the slave cylinder or there is a problem with the master then it looks like you might be better to pull the box. Where are you? I might have a look if you're near East Manchester. Oily > Ah, I didn't know it had a series 3 gearbox in it, there's not much to go > wrong there. If the master cylinder checks out ok then it's probably the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > problem with the master then it looks like you might be better to pull the > box. Where are you? I might have a look if you're near East Manchester. I'll second your advice Martin. And if Tom pays the bus fare I'll take a look at it too. ;-) >> Ah, I didn't know it had a series 3 gearbox in it, there's not much to go >> wrong there. If the master cylinder checks out ok then it's probably the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'll second your advice Martin. And if Tom pays the bus fare I'll take > a look at it too. ;-) hehe ;) If you will return the favour and take me over to look at yours then it's a deal! Got any contract work going over there?. I'd love to get some work over your way! Am going half way to you in the summer! :) >>> Ah, I didn't know it had a series 3 gearbox in it, there's not much >>> to go [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Got any contract work going over there?. I'd love to get some work over > your way! Am going half way to you in the summer! :) What's your specialty? There's a reasonable amount of IT contract work floating around. > Ah, I didn't know it had a series 3 gearbox in it, there's not much to go > wrong there. If the master cylinder checks out ok then it's probably the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Oily I said it had a s3 box right at that start of my post! ;) no stripped threads on the slave. they are fine. is the release bearing meant to be so fragile? in in crewe/stoke near Lee_d (so south manchester) i might have chance to strip it down again today.. > i might have chance to strip it down again today.. Honestly it's not too hard to remove/replace a series gearbox if you have a halfway decent cradle to hold it on a trolley jack. > > i might have chance to strip it down again today.. > > Honestly it's not too hard to remove/replace a series gearbox if you > have a halfway decent cradle to hold it on a trolley jack. And you don't have to remove the seatbase, you can remove the gearbox mountings and pull the gearbox back to get enough clearance to replace any clutch parts. A short, cut off piece of old gearbox input shaft (about 5") comes in handy to align the plate if you need to, that's long enough to get hold of to remove and short enough to work in the space you have. Oily >>> i might have chance to strip it down again today.. >> Honestly it's not too hard to remove/replace a series gearbox if you [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Oily seatbox needs to come out anyway as its buggered and ive got a better condition one to go in! Right - im confused now!. I sat and thought about it today and realised that i am stupid and that my clutch was originally stuck IN not OUT - when i sat in it last night and tested it, i could clutch down (as far as it would go),put it in gear, clutch up and I didnt move. tried it in low and high, overdrive in and out.. Thats gonna affect the diagnosis isnt it! Then today: gave it loads of free play on the master shaft. no change clamped the flexy pipe. pedal goes solid. removed the master outlet. pedal goes right to the floor and ejects fluid. reconnected outlet and have a pedal that now goes all the way down. didnt bleed it. Decided to start it up and see what happened: clutch now works, and bites right near the top of the pedal. considering that i havent bled it since removing the master out, im surprised! Further ideas? > >>> i might have chance to strip it down again today.. > >> Honestly it's not too hard to remove/replace a series gearbox if you [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Further ideas? I'd venture to say you didn't have enough play on the master cylinder shaft and now you have, re-check the free play to make sure. You may also have had some crap in there which has now gone. If you haven't got any free play on the master, the fluid will not return but will still feed, with the result that it holds the slave out and the clutch disengaged. Sounds like you've sorted it anyway! Oily > I'd venture to say you didn't have enough play on the master cylinder shaft > and now you have, re-check the free play to make sure. You may also have had > some crap in there which has now gone. If you haven't got any free play on > the master, the fluid will not return but will still feed, with the result > that it holds the slave out and the clutch disengaged. Sounds like you've > sorted it anyway! That does sound like a sensible diagnosis. I have bled it and driven it tonight. bites right at the top of the pedal and slips occasionally, especially when im reversing it into my drive. From that i assume it really does need a clutch plate/bearing? hydraulics must have been a bit tired before, so with new ones ive now got a tiny bit of life, but still not enough. > > Ah, I didn't know it had a series 3 gearbox in it, there's not much to go > > wrong there. If the master cylinder checks out ok then it's probably the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > I said it had a s3 box right at that start of my post! ;) You most certainly did, I was not paying attention again. > no stripped threads on the slave. they are fine. > > is the release bearing meant to be so fragile? They don't need to be any stronger really, unless the bearing jams and spins on and melts the carrier. > in in crewe/stoke near Lee_d (so south manchester) That's a shame, I went to Stafford Classic Bike Show on Sunday, couldn't have been nearer. > i might have chance to strip it down again today.. |
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