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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / May 2008To the electrically minded...
I can't get my head around this one and I'm 99% certain its simple. I want to put a worklight on the back, fair enough, standard relay yada yada yada But what I would also like to do, is take a feed from the reverse lamps This is where i'm stuck I can find plenty of relays with multiple 87's - but what I think i want is one that can take two 86's Is there such a beast? or if not, how can I easily achieve the switching I want? Cheers Si > I can't get my head around this one and I'm 99% certain its simple. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Si You just need a normal 4 pin relay to do this, and take the feed from the reverse light as the switch. I did this in the battery compartment. -ve +ve In to relay +ve out to light on back cut into the feed to the reverse light switch which screws into the gearbox just under the middle seat so if you pull it out its easy to get to and put this on the switch pin. This way, when the reverse light comes on, it will switch the relay and turn on the new one at the same time.  SignatureMark 1996 90 300tdi 1987 RR V8 EFI 2007 Golf GT http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/ - Firefox Rules! http://fireftp.mozdev.org/ - FTP Plugin for Firefox http://ietab.mozdev.org/ - IE tab. Get Windows updates in Firefox > I can't get my head around this one and I'm 99% certain its simple. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Si After a bit of rumaging... 87 to permanent +ve feed 85 to ground 86 into existing reverse light wire 30 to new light. SignatureMark 1996 90 300tdi 1987 RR V8 EFI 2007 Golf GT http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/ - Firefox Rules! http://fireftp.mozdev.org/ - FTP Plugin for Firefox http://ietab.mozdev.org/ - IE tab. Get Windows updates in Firefox > I can't get my head around this one and I'm 99% certain its simple. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Is there such a beast? or if not, how can I easily achieve the > switching I want? What switching do you want? 'and' or 'or' Mark has given the solution for 'and' - if I read it right. To make 'or' you could use a pair of diodes on the +ve feed wires and connect both to 85 or 86 (some relay coils are polarity sensitive) SignatureWilliam Tasso Land Rover - 110 V8 Discovery - V8 >> I can't get my head around this one and I'm 99% certain its simple. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > To make 'or' you could use a pair of diodes on the +ve feed wires and > connect both to 85 or 86 (some relay coils are polarity sensitive) You've lost me on this one, why do you want/need a relay? Do you not want to just turn it off and on? A plain vanilla switch? SignatureWisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could remember the darn question > ... > why do you want/need a relay? For example: 60w lamp at 12v draws 5amps - meaning you need a switch (and wiring) at the dash that can handle that load. Using a relay means the control circuit can use much lower rated components. > Do you not > want to just turn it off and on? A plain vanilla switch? Apparently not. SignatureWilliam Tasso Land Rover - 110 V8 Discovery - V8 >> ... >> why do you want/need a relay? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Apparently not. Why put a switch on the dash, put it in the lamp! SignatureWisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could remember the darn question > You've lost me on this one, why do you want/need a relay? Do you not > want to just turn it off and on? A plain vanilla switch? And why the connection to the reversing lamp, is it some kind of legal requirement? SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/ >> You've lost me on this one, why do you want/need a relay? Do you not >> want to just turn it off and on? A plain vanilla switch? > > And why the connection to the reversing lamp, is it some kind of legal > requirement? Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i put it in reverse with no extra switching. SignatureMark 1996 90 300tdi 1987 RR V8 EFI 2007 Golf GT http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/ - Firefox Rules! http://fireftp.mozdev.org/ - FTP Plugin for Firefox http://ietab.mozdev.org/ - IE tab. Get Windows updates in Firefox > Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i > put it in reverse with no extra switching. The extra switch being useful for twats who insist on following you without dipping their headlights. >> Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i >> put it in reverse with no extra switching. >> > The extra switch being useful for twats who insist on following you > without dipping their headlights. Plan... I could fit some massive spots on my rear bumper at about car driver head height. :) SignatureMark 1996 90 300tdi 1987 RR V8 EFI 2007 Golf GT http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/ - Firefox Rules! http://fireftp.mozdev.org/ - FTP Plugin for Firefox http://ietab.mozdev.org/ - IE tab. Get Windows updates in Firefox > I could fit some massive spots on my rear bumper at about car driver > head height. > > :) I've had said lights for the last decade or so. Fuckwits are somewhat more common at this end of the world (and Mr Plod is somewhat rarer). :-) > I've had said lights for the last decade or so. Fuckwits are somewhat > more common at this end of the world (and Mr Plod is somewhat rarer). :-) Well we've been sending fuckwits your way for years, sorry about that ;-) ISTR there being some requirement for having the bright additional lights wired up so they'll only come on at the same time as the normal lights, but I suspect I'm either right and you're all naughty boys, or I've got the wrong end of the car. Mind you, wouldn't be the first time, I got into my old audi once and thought "something's wrong", sat there for a bit and realised I'd got in the back. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/ >> I've had said lights for the last decade or so. Fuckwits are somewhat >> more common at this end of the world (and Mr Plod is somewhat rarer). :-) > > Well we've been sending fuckwits your way for years, sorry about that ;-) I'll not disagree, it's just that more stay at home than you send. :p > ISTR there being some requirement for having the bright additional > lights wired up so they'll only come on at the same time as the normal > lights, but I suspect I'm either right and you're all naughty boys, or > I've got the wrong end of the car. S'not sposed to be done, but if the switch ain't visible how are they going to tell? > Mind you, wouldn't be the first time, I got into my old audi once and > thought "something's wrong", sat there for a bit and realised I'd got > in the back. I hate that ;-) >> Well we've been sending fuckwits your way for years, sorry about that ;-) > > I'll not disagree, it's just that more stay at home than you send. :p We're working on it! > S'not sposed to be done, but if the switch ain't visible how are they > going to tell? Might be an issue come MOT time, I need to find out what the legalities are with my old truck, it doesn't legally need a reversing light but if I fit a rear work lamp I have to make sure it's not classed as one and has to comply with any size and location regs etc, mind you I might just fit a proper reversing light! >> Mind you, wouldn't be the first time, I got into my old audi once and >> thought "something's wrong", sat there for a bit and realised I'd got >> in the back. > > I hate that ;-) I've gone to the passenger side on the truck numerous times, blasted left-hand drives... SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/ >> I've had said lights for the last decade or so. Fuckwits are somewhat >> more common at this end of the world (and Mr Plod is somewhat rarer). >> :-) > > Well we've been sending fuckwits your way for years, sorry about that ;-) amen :) > ISTR there being some requirement for having the bright additional > lights wired up so they'll only come on at the same time as the normal > lights, but I suspect I'm either right and you're all naughty boys, or > I've got the wrong end of the car. Usual disclaimers apply (check it from a reliable source), I'm in the UK, etc. - AIUI 'work light' units at the rear of a vehicle should show some indicator to the driver when they are active. > Mind you, wouldn't be the first time, I got into my old audi once and > thought "something's wrong", sat there for a bit and realised I'd got > in the back. I've known folk get into the wrong car with the right key and sit there wondering what isn't quite right IYSWIM SignatureWilliam Tasso Land Rover - 110 V8 Discovery - V8 > Usual disclaimers apply (check it from a reliable source), I'm in the UK, > etc. - AIUI 'work light' units at the rear of a vehicle should show some > indicator to the driver when they are active. Well, being able to see where the hell you're going when reversing might class as that ;-) I've reversed at night a few times using a torch shone in the rear view mirrors to throw light backwards, works OK-ish.. > I've known folk get into the wrong car with the right key and sit there > wondering what isn't quite right IYSWIM That's pretty easy to do but sheepisly hopping from the back to the front can be a little embarassing, thankfully no-one was around. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/ >> Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i >> put it in reverse with no extra switching. >> > The extra switch being useful for twats who insist on following you > without dipping their headlights. Must be different inNZ here its illegal to show a white light to the rear when moving! SignatureWisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could remember the darn question >>> Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i >>> put it in reverse with no extra switching. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Must be different inNZ here its illegal to show a white light to the > rear when moving! Illegal here too - the law reads summat like "either to be only lit whilst reverse gear engaged or incapable of operating whilst the headlights are in use". Plod however is somewhat thinly spread (and is too busy generating revenue from speeding motorists) to notice. The worklights on my Hilux are "dipped" such that they are unlikely to blind anyone who isn't actually touching the rear bumper, but even so are remarkably effective at convincing twats who follow with high beam going. >>>> Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i >>>> put it in reverse with no extra switching. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >are remarkably effective at convincing twats who follow with high beam >going. Nothing to stop you having a brace of 100W red lights on the back for flashing people with... SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! > >>>> Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i > >>>> put it in reverse with no extra switching. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Austin Shackles. I did once briefly consider stripping the paint from the rear safari door and polishing to a mirror finish on the 109" but thought better of it. Let them blind themselves also sort of idea. Martin > I did once briefly consider stripping the paint from the rear safari door > and polishing to a mirror finish on the 109" but thought better of it. > Let > them blind themselves also sort of idea. > > Martin Ivory in gloss has much the same effect :-) Lee D > > I did once briefly consider stripping the paint from the rear safari door > > and polishing to a mirror finish on the 109" but thought better of it. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lee D Heh, I see the thought had crossed your mind. I gave up on the idea as I thought my local plod might take not just a dim view if they followed me. :-) Martin >> > I did once briefly consider stripping the paint from the rear safari >door [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >thought my local plod might take not just a dim view if they followed me. >:-) nothing stops you having shiny paint though :-) although admittedly, it's out of place on a landy. I fancied an additional interior mirror, aimed straight backwards. If your lights shine high enough to reflect in a mirror at the top of my windscreen, they're too high. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms... ------------------------------------------------\ >> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them. a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too! >>Heh, I see the thought had crossed your mind. I gave up on the idea as I >>thought my local plod might take not just a dim view if they followed me. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > windscreen, > they're too high. Ma and Pa had (one of many Landies) that was a LWB in Gloss Ivory. Ma only does one colour (also seen on JLO). We followed Dad back one night when we were moving house. We had to drop back as even the shimmer of dipped beams was too much. I don't think there is much plod would be able to do as technically it's the following vehicle that is displaying white light to the rear of your vehicle. > >>Heh, I see the thought had crossed your mind. I gave up on the idea as I > >>thought my local plod might take not just a dim view if they followed me. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > following vehicle that is displaying white light to the rear of your > vehicle. Nice thought! No, I am NOT going to do it, it would probably come under 'knowingly', 'due consideration' etc. :-)) Martin > No, I am NOT going to do it, it would probably come under 'knowingly', 'due > consideration' etc. :-)) Well there's always the possibility of putting some of that shiny metal reinforcement plating on the rear door! SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/ > Must be different inNZ here its illegal to show a white light to the > rear when moving! I think it's illegal in most places, hence me thinking there was some legal reason for the OP's request to wire the lamp into the reversing light circuit, so it could only come on when the gearbox was in reverse, I thought perhaps it was a requirement, as I'm thinking of doing the same thing I thought I'd barge in and ask. As it turns out I think he only wanted to do it so it would come on as an extra reversing light. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/ > Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i > put it in reverse with no extra switching. I'd do that in the pinz but it ain't got no reversing light! I've caught a few people out like that, it seems the 2.5 tonne 6-wheeler isn't actually reversing until a little white light comes on. A few stubborn horn honks from them followed by the relentless movement of the truck soon sorts out right-of-way issues. SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/ >> Ive got mine wired up like that so that the extra one comes on when i >> put it in reverse with no extra switching. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stubborn horn honks from them followed by the relentless movement of > the truck soon sorts out right-of-way issues. Ahhh.. my lane-change theory in the truck in action (from a previous life driving them for a living). 44 tonne+indicators=right of way. Any audible toot of horn during said manouveur may cast doubt upon overall public safety, but the HSE says the other party should take evasive action ;-) > 44 tonne+indicators=right of way. Any audible toot of horn during said > manouveur may cast doubt upon overall public safety, but the HSE says > the other party should take evasive action ;-) Last time it happened to me was a heirarchical bully situation, I was tooting through a small town, came upon a section of road that had yellow hatching and only room for one vehicle, the way was clear so off I went, only to meet an 18-wheeler coming the other way using the "bigger than you" rule. Behind me was a Ferrari 360 who wasn't at all happy that I was reversing at him so he sat there honking his horn so I stopped, made sure I wasn't actually on him, then carried on reversing, he got the message after a while. Another one was some oafette in a car park who was tailgating me, so when I had to shunt backwards to get into a space she was right on my tail, honked her horn and gave the international chav sign for "you dissin' me" (hand outstretched, palm upwards, pig-like expression with mouth agape) and lent on her horn, briefly, but had to give way in the end. One I saw in a car park made me want to break out the ratchet handle and bash some sense in. Van driver reversing out of a space, dolt comes round the corner, sees van reversing quite some distance away, accelerates up behind van and honks horn. Aargh! SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! http://youtube.com/user/tarcus69 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarcus/sets/ > On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:39:47 +0100, GrnOval > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thanks for all the replys. Worklight in this instance is a light that when the disco is being loaded up is iluminating the rear area - not to be illuminated whilst driving. The thought was then that as it is on the back, and its white, and the dimwits that park near where the vehicle is used (central london) then to have an extra reverse light and also to light up where you are reversing would be a good idea. So in effect what i'm after is an OR Either - light switched on by switch in rear load bay OR light switched on by engaging reverse How does that stack up with the wiring suggestions (being tad thick - just back from a presentation lunch thingie burp......) Si >> On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:39:47 +0100, GrnOval >> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > How does that stack up with the wiring suggestions (being tad thick - > just back from a presentation lunch thingie burp......) You have choices ..... Option: 1 Relay + two diodes control (reverse) >> diode >> 85 control (courtesy) >> diode >> 85 ground >> 86 +ve feed >> 30 load >> 87 Option: 2 Relays #1 control (reverse) >> 85 ground >> 86 +ve feed >> 30 load >> 87 #2 control (courtesy) >> 85 ground >> 86 +ve feed >> 30 load >> 87 In both cases don't forget to wire the other side of the load to ground. The above should be considered an OTTOMH doodle for discussion purposes only. Note: 85/86 are polarity sensitive on some relays and may need to be reversed in the above. SignatureWilliam Tasso Land Rover - 110 V8 Discovery - V8 > So in effect what i'm after is an OR > > Either - light switched on by switch in rear load bay OR light > switched on by engaging reverse All those sill numbers confused me but a google and I think I have them sussed. http://moodle.student.cnwl.ac.uk/moodledata_shared/CDX%20eTextbook/dswmedi a/generalReference/standards/electerminalnumbers.html For the switch find a suitable +v through switch to one side of relay coil (86). Take feed from reversing light to the same point. If you don't want the real reversing light to come on with the switch bung a chunky diode in this lead (end with band to the relay). Connect other side of coil to chassis (85). Feed (87 or possibly 30) with +v suitable for the lamp load, connect (87a) to the lamp and the other side of the lamp to chassis. SignatureCheers Dave. >>On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:39:47 +0100, GrnOval >> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Si I think that you will need to be careful what you do if road use and MOTs are being considered. Apart from what has been suggested earlier there are wattage and approval mark requirements once you get into those territories. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_1.htm Specifically start with Schedule 14: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_19.htm#nsch14requirementrelati ngoptionalreversinglamp > >>On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:39:47 +0100, GrnOval > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > Specifically start with Schedule 14:http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_19.htm#nsch14requir... I would imagine that providing it could be isolated for said test........ |
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