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Austin Shackles - 15 Jul 2009 21:43 GMT

Any thoughts on how difficult it'd be to convert a TD5 disco II to auto box
from manual

1) using the 'box from another TD5?

2) using the 'box from a classic rangie or disco I?

I'm aware that 2) would need modifications to connect the kickdown cable,
however the speeds/gear ratios look about right, comparing with the manual
TD5: 5th gear is about 1900 revs at 50 mph, which is what the RR shows at
lockup point on the ZF4HP22, and the TD5 will pull quite well at 1900 revs
upwards.

In both cases would need a flexplate, would the flexplate from a genuine TD5
auto engine mate with the 4HP22 torque converter?

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Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
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Lee_D - 15 Jul 2009 23:32 GMT

> Any thoughts on how difficult it'd be to convert a TD5 disco II to auto
> box
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> TD5
> auto engine mate with the 4HP22 torque converter?

It'll never fit.

;)

Semi serious answer! :0)

Lee D

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Lee_D - 17 Jul 2009 00:12 GMT

>> Any thoughts on how difficult it'd be to convert a TD5 disco II to auto
>> box
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Lee D

Austin, why not just chop it in and get one that is auto. Life is too short
dude!

Lee D

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Austin Shackles - 19 Jul 2009 21:11 GMT

>Austin, why not just chop it in and get one that is auto. Life is too short
>dude!

I knew someone would say that.

I can't afford to buy one less than 5 years old. Gotta keep this one, 'cos
this one is already licensed, as we stand at present the cunty council will
re-licence stuff over 5 years old, but not issue new licenses on such.

I was just contemplating that in general, I'd prefer an auto box to the
manual one. Also, this would remove the pile of poo that is the dual-mass
flywheel from the equation, before it needs replacing again.

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Tim.. - 16 Jul 2009 18:36 GMT

> Any thoughts on how difficult it'd be to convert a TD5 disco II to auto
> box
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I'm aware that 2) would need modifications to connect the kickdown
> cable...

The DII is fly by wire, where are you going to connect said cable to?

Tim.

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Austin Shackles - 19 Jul 2009 21:11 GMT

>> Any thoughts on how difficult it'd be to convert a TD5 disco II to auto
>> box
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>The DII is fly by wire, where are you going to connect said cable to?

I'm sure I could invent something. Short answer: the throttle pedal.

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Alex - 16 Jul 2009 22:13 GMT

>Any thoughts on how difficult it'd be to convert a TD5 disco II to auto box
>from manual
>
>1) using the 'box from another TD5?
>
>2) using the 'box from a classic rangie or disco I?

Classic rangie was never fitted with TD5, only 200/300tdi and IIRC
usually manual

Alex

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Austin Shackles - 19 Jul 2009 21:17 GMT

>>Any thoughts on how difficult it'd be to convert a TD5 disco II to auto box
>>from manual
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Classic rangie was never fitted with TD5, only 200/300tdi and IIRC
>usually manual

yeah I know, but a lot of V8s were and the ratios and revs on the road in
the V8s are pretty similar to the TD5 manual disco. 5th in the TD5 disco is
more or less exactly the same revs as lock-up 4th on the 3.9 vogue: about
1950 revs at 50. Or so say the rev counters. The TD5 pulls quite well from
2000 or so revs, and the 3.9, when pulling moderately hard, is running about
2300-2400 revs - you really have to nail it to get it revving much over
3000, and the instant you back off it changes up to 4th, or 4th-lockup,
depending on road speed.

OK, the 3.9 has a bit more power than the TD5, but the 3.5s didn't have a
lot more. And I could always chip it :-)

Thing is, a 'box from a classic rangie V8 is likely to be easier and cheaper
to get than from a TD5 disco.

I guess I could buy an auto TD5, swap the 'boxes, then re-sell it as a
manual.

And for why I don't simply buy an auto, see other post.

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EMB - 19 Jul 2009 21:24 GMT

> I guess I could buy an auto TD5, swap the 'boxes, then re-sell it as a
> manual.

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_50.html

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Austin Shackles - 20 Jul 2009 07:41 GMT

>> I guess I could buy an auto TD5, swap the 'boxes, then re-sell it as a
>> manual.
>
>http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_50.html

interesting high-budget option... and interesting that there's a box of
tricks to control the electronic box available. Would be a good option if
funds allow, in a regular TD5 auto, for reprogramming the shift points and
so on. It's been said, with some truth, that the shift points don't work
when towing hard, leading manual intervention to keep it in lower gears and
reduce coverter slip and overheating. Mind, that's true of the older ones
too.

I wonder why they bothered rebuilding a TD5 'box, rather than using a
hydraulic one in the first place? The later box is a bit stronger, but I
doubt it's an issue on the back of a TD5. I guess up to a point if you're
rebuilding the box anyway, it doesn't make much difference which control
block you fit.

maybe there are fitting issues with the torque converter etc.

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Pantelis Giamarellos - 20 Jul 2009 08:25 GMT

Austin Hi,

Ashcroft is also selling a totally hudraulicaly controled autobox conversion
for the TD5 Defender.

I guess this kit will also be suitable for the Discovery TD5. After all it
is the same engine.

the drawback of the hudraulicaly controled autobox is that it is not as
"flexible" as the electrohydraulic one when kickdowns, gearchanges etc are
required.

The box of tricks for the conversion is a gem. I have seen it operating as
fitted on a TD5 Defender and a Discovery 1 fitted with a 4.6 V8 here in
Greece and it definately makes gearchanges smoother, kickdowns more
effective and at the proper revbands and more seriously it appears that the
torque converter locks not only on fourth gear therefore giving better fuel
economy on other gears apart from highway driving.

BUT that does not mean that the hydraulicaly controled autobox is not a
better thing than the manual one.
(but then again autoboxes are my favourites...)

------------------

As for the kickdown and the fly by wire pedal maybe attaching a special
bracket to the existing pedal will provide a solution.
I believe that if you remove the sensor from the pedal you will have no way
to provide the signal to the sensor/actuator on top of the fuel "pump" on
the engine. So how can you alter the revs?

Take care
Pantelis

>>> I guess I could buy an auto TD5, swap the 'boxes, then re-sell it as a
>>> manual.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> maybe there are fitting issues with the torque converter etc.

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Austin Shackles - 27 Jul 2009 09:43 GMT

>As for the kickdown and the fly by wire pedal maybe attaching a special
>bracket to the existing pedal will provide a solution.
>I believe that if you remove the sensor from the pedal you will have no way
>to provide the signal to the sensor/actuator on top of the fuel "pump" on
>the engine. So how can you alter the revs?

oh, I wouldn't remove the sensor, it wouldn't work. I'd do what you said,
modify the pedal to allow attaching a cable.

Struck me when driving the TD5 disco and watching the revs, the gearing
looks very similar to the effective gearing on the auto box in the V8
rangie. The 3.9 is more powerful of course, but the TD5 even in standard
tune is not that far from the figures of the 3.5 V8s, on power and torque.

5th on the TD5 gives more or less exactly the same revs as 4th-lockup on the
Rangiue - about 1950 revs at 50 mph, and the TD5 pulls well from about 2000
rpm up to about 3000, which equates to nearly 80 mph.

I'll have to have a looksee at Ashcroft's site, see what's on offer.

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