Defender (3.5 V8 SD1 engine)

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Alan Berry - 23 Jul 2009 22:17 GMT

Hi ,

My son is going to look at a G reg defender with the above engine. The
vehicle originally had a diesel unit fitted. The previous owner is saying
that the power steering has been removed. Not sure what this really means.
Apparently it was something to do the previous owners preferance when off
roading.

I am going to check it over, but can anyone tell me if the steering unit can
be used long term without the steering pump being connected.

Not exactly sure what i am going to find + i dam not convinced why anyone
would want to disconnect the power steering. Am i missing a point here, me
not being an experienced off roader.

Any comments would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks

Alan

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Dave Baxter - 24 Jul 2009 12:48 GMT

> Hi ,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Alan

Hi...

More likely the PAS box is bad or leaky anyway (so will be very dead
now) rather than they couldnt figure out where to stick a pump! If the
SD1 lump didn't have one on it before anyway.

(PAS = Power Assisted Steering)

If the box was OK and sealed up properly, it may still live, but in all
honesty, it's more like it was bad anyway, the usual problem is the
bottom seal goes. You're not suposed to hold them "on the end stops"
for more than a second or two, or "bad things" start to happen. That is
common to just about all hydraulic PAS system by the way.

It's not dificult to retrofit PAS to a Landy, or replace one. You can
even buy them new from Adwest (the makers) now. Pumps however are
another story. I've mix'd and matched in the past, it helps to have a
friendly hydraulic pipe fixer nearby! Oh, and *Much* easier to have new
nuts and bolts, and just cut/grind the nuts off the old ones.

After all, it's a safety related item, not only for your safety!

For "Off Roading" PAS has a lot going for it. Less effort needed so
less tiring for the driver, and potentialy safer as less kickback, but
still keep your thumbs out of the steering wheel!

Downside, a little bit of engine power lost, and something else to
maintain. But if you look after it, it's great to have!...

Best Regards.

Dave B.
109 Coiler on gally chassis.
Ex Disco 200DTi (yes they can fit!)
Defender LT77/LT230.
Power Steering.
AirLocker in Salisbury back end, with Aschroft half shafts and flanges.
Vented disks at front, disks all round (including the parking brake!)
& way too many other things to mention.
MOT due :-(

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hugh - 24 Jul 2009 20:26 GMT

>Hi ,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>Alan

Doesn't sound very convincing to me. I can think of no disadvantages in
having PAS when off-road. Maybe competition triallists might have a
different view. Being the suspicious type I might think it has been
removed because it was u/s.

You can sometimes get 2nd hand units but they're not cheap.

Does your son particularly want a V8? They're not cheap to run, even on
gas compared with say a 200TDi.

Signature

hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?

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Dougal - 24 Jul 2009 21:27 GMT

>> Hi ,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Does your son particularly want a V8? They're not cheap to run, even on
> gas compared with say a 200TDi.

It's just as likely that this Defender was originally without PAS and
that the pump on the transplanted engine has been removed because the
owner couldn't be chewed to install piping and a power 'box. Don't be at
all surprised if the story doesn't match the facts.

The OP wants to check to see if there are any open/blanked off ports on
the steering 'box. If no ports it's manual and that's just about the end
of it. Beware, however, if there is an unconnected driven pump on the
engine - that will eventually seize if not carrying any oil.

If the 'box does have hydraulic ports, there are two issues. If left
open to atmosphere dirt/water will enter and eventually do nasties up to
and including seizing the 'box as the worst case. The other I'm not
certain about but the input shaft on a PAS 'box may be weaker than that
on the manual 'box. Whilst it still needs to be strong enough to operate
the steering when the power assistance fails it is not designed to
operate like this continually: exercise due caution.

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puffernutter - 25 Jul 2009 09:08 GMT

>>> Hi ,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
> the steering when the power assistance fails it is not designed to
> operate like this continually: exercise due caution.

A bit late on this - I've been in China! (That's my excuse and I'm
sticking to it!)

I have a 1986 Defender that has been retrofitted with a V8 3.5 and has
power steering.

The pump is situated on the lower LHS at the front of the engine and the
steering box is in what I would call the "normal" place on the chassis
on the opposite side. All I needed to do was to get some new pipes
made - note, it is important to keep the fittings from the ends of the
pipes if at all possible - they are the tricky bits to get.

Cheers

Peter

Signature

1985 110 CSW (Clumber Spaniel Wagon)
1989 Defender 90
1990 Defender 110 County (Reggie the Veggie)

1971 Triumph Stag (original engine) hopefully on the road next summer
(but I said that this year!)
1964 Rover P4 110 (no chance of getting on the road even in the medium
term!)

Train set at www.lmandwr.co.uk
Dogs at www.whissgig.co.uk

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GbH - 25 Jul 2009 10:42 GMT

>>>> Hi ,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> I have a 1986 Defender that has been retrofitted with a V8 3.5 and has
> power steering.

But is that 3.5 a SD1. The SD1 was subtly different, like it had
something else mounted where you'd want the steering pump.

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Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

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puffernutter - 25 Jul 2009 11:21 GMT

>>>>> Hi ,
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> But is that 3.5 a SD1. The SD1 was subtly different, like it had
> something else mounted where you'd want the steering pump.

It came out of a Classic Rangie, so probably not!

Sorry if I'm confusing things...

I blame jetlag!

Cheers

Peter

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GbH - 25 Jul 2009 15:06 GMT

>>>>>> Hi ,
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>
> Peter

As a rule, one doesn't get jackleg flying Westwards.

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Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

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puffernutter - 25 Jul 2009 23:55 GMT

<<Huge Snip>>

> As a rule, one doesn't get jackleg flying Westwards.

Let me see, get up in China 06:15, flight at 10:15. Ten hours long (in
theory) 45 minutes circling over Essex (Gatwick runway closed) causing
massive congestion, thunderstorms over Heathrow, held on the taxiway for
40 minutes awaiting our stand. Then a trip via Heathrow Express and
Farce Late Western (signalling problems) back to the West Country. I
get to bed about 23:30 BST, so I make that about 24+ hours with very
little sleep. Maybe not jet lagged, just bloody knackered!

I know that I'm strange, but in the last year flying to Australia
(twice) and China (twice) I have no problems going out, but it takes
time to acclimatise coming home!

Cheers

Peter

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GbH - 26 Jul 2009 11:26 GMT

> <<Huge Snip>>
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Peter

Used to travel quite a bit to the good? old US of A, mainly east coast,
I found I could get onto local time almost immediately but coming back,
often from the West coast, took me ages (weeks) to reset.

Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

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Austin Shackles - 27 Jul 2009 09:33 GMT

>I have a 1986 Defender that has been retrofitted with a V8 3.5 and has
>power steering.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>made - note, it is important to keep the fittings from the ends of the
>pipes if at all possible - they are the tricky bits to get.

Yours was originally PAS though. and just by-the-by, I believe it's 1985

:-)

a few things strike me:

1) the PAS box, with no PAS, is not getting lubricated as the manufacturer
intended.

2) if it's been converted, I'd look to be sure that it's a proper
non-assisted steerign box, not a PAS one with no pump.

3) the PAS box, with no PAS, would be next-to-undriveable off-road. On-road,
it's just about usable if the PAS fails, but you need to have strong arms -
the steering ratio is very high and the vehicle heavy; the manual steering
is much lower geared.

4) the seller is talking bullshit. The only credible reason to remove the
PAS is because the 'box is shagged and you have access to a non-PAS one to
replace it. PAS is an advantage off-road...

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Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
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GbH - 24 Jul 2009 21:11 GMT

> Hi ,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Alan

If I recall correctly the position one would want/need to mount the
steering pump on a SD1 is occupied by something else. If the steering
box was replaced by a series unit when the engine swap was done, you'll
be fine except it will be exceeding heavy in the steering department.
Upgrading to power steering will require both box and pump and most
importantly non standard pipe-work.
To be honest it'd probably be best to look for a proper 90V8 and save
yourself the grief, unless the SD1 comes with a whole pile of other
stuff to make it worth the effort.

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--

Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could
remember the darn question

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Alan Berry - 25 Jul 2009 22:29 GMT

Thanks everyone for your feedback - much appriciated.

Alan

> Hi ,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Alan

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