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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2004

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Webber carb

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Nikki Cluley - 20 Sep 2004 07:26 GMT
Bruce is thinking of getting a webber carb for the lightweight and just
wanted to know if it would be a good move.  What differences will there be
compared to the standard fitted one?

Signature

Nikki

1990 Discovery V8i
1985 Range Rover V8
1975 88" Series III 2.25 petrol
1979 Series III Lightweight 2.25 petrol

EMB - 20 Sep 2004 07:34 GMT
> Bruce is thinking of getting a webber carb for the lightweight and just
> wanted to know if it would be a good move.  What differences will there be
> compared to the standard fitted one?

Virtually none compared to a Zenith in good condition - but if your
Zenith is warped or otherwise unrepairable it would make a good replacement.

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EMB
change two to the number to reply

PM - 20 Sep 2004 08:30 GMT
> Bruce is thinking of getting a webber carb for the lightweight and just
> wanted to know if it would be a good move.  What differences will there be
> compared to the standard fitted one?

I fitted a webber to my 2a and it iced up regularly stopping the engine
after about 20 miles of driving. I made a few enquiries I was told "it
wasn't unheard of". Mine was fitted with a Solex, the casing had worn
at the spindles letting in air making starting difficult.
With the benifit of hindsight I would repair or replace the old carb
with one of the same make or put up with the poor starting.
If the existing carb is in reasonable conition I would leave it alone.

HTH

Paul
Raoul Donschachner - 20 Sep 2004 08:51 GMT
> wasn't unheard of". Mine was fitted with a Solex, the casing had worn
> at the spindles letting in air making starting difficult.

I too have a Solex mounted at the moment, which leads me to the
question, which of the two, Solex or Zenith, would be the better
solution?

Raoul
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JD - 20 Sep 2004 10:56 GMT
>> wasn't unheard of". Mine was fitted with a Solex, the casing had worn
>> at the spindles letting in air making starting difficult.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Raoul

As far as I can see there is no real choice between the Solex and Zenith,
with the Weber being a bit down on power compared to the others, and
correspondingly down on fuel consumption depending on driving, but the
differences are slight. Weber is also supposed to be less suitable for
extreme slopes, but again, I think the differences are slight. The big
difference is between a carburetter in good condition and one in poor
condition!
JD
Raoul Donschachner - 20 Sep 2004 11:08 GMT
> the differences are slight. Weber is also supposed to be less suitable
> for extreme slopes, but again, I think the differences are slight. The
> big difference is between a carburetter in good condition and one in
> poor condition!

Of course thanks. So there is no need to exchange the carb when it jsut
should be overhauled, thanks.

Raoul
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Megalowmania - 20 Sep 2004 09:27 GMT
> Bruce is thinking of getting a webber carb for the lightweight and just
> wanted to know if it would be a good move.  What differences will there be
> compared to the standard fitted one?

I've heard that the Webber is not good at supplying fuel at extreme angles,
which is why the Zenith and Solex were chosen.

Could be wrong though, not fitted one myself.

Paul
Austin Shackles - 20 Sep 2004 09:58 GMT
>Bruce is thinking of getting a webber carb for the lightweight and just
>wanted to know if it would be a good move.  What differences will there be
>compared to the standard fitted one?

put one on the series II, to replace a very dodgy old solex.  worked fine,
IIRC.

nor did I notice icing as a problem - mine was run through the standard
filter and inlet though.

carb icing may happen more with unleaded.  but then again, it's solveable by
putting the intake near the exhaust manifold, so it draws warm dry air into
it in winter.
Rory Manton - 20 Sep 2004 11:51 GMT
> Bruce is thinking of getting a webber carb for the lightweight and just
> wanted to know if it would be a good move.  What differences will there be
> compared to the standard fitted one?

I fitted a new Webber to my Srs11a about a year age and have had no problems
with it what so ever after the initial setting up,I fitted it as the
"original" was beyond ajustment without an overhaul and more importantly it
was free.
Andy Warner - 20 Sep 2004 14:13 GMT
> Bruce is thinking of getting a webber carb for the lightweight and just
> wanted to know if it would be a good move.  What differences will there be
> compared to the standard fitted one?

There's serious issues sadly with all three carbs... Zenith's I'd have to
say from my experience are by far the worst of the lot. There are serious
manufacturing problems - the bodies were never correctly heat treated, so
nearly all are warped to some extent, and run rich (or very rich)! I have a
collection of around 8 crap old ones. A friend in the trade recently bought
5 brand new - all were warped from manufacture and totally useless. They
also suffer from wear around the shafts on the throttle venturi. This leads
to petrol running down the outside of the carb onto the manifold. I've tried
all the tricks including thick gaskets and plugging holes to get round the
warping, but once they're gone they're gone!!

Solex were dumped by LR in favour of the zenith. As far as I know they're
not great. Tend to give a lower power output, and not as good economy as
Zeniths. The only ones I've come accross have been old and knackered. I
don't think they're particulaly available either.

The Webers are OK, but have the following problems:
The diaphragm on the enrichment pump dies after a while, leading to weak
running/poor acceleration and more frequent icing. The part also isn't
available from anywhere leading to total carb replacement. I've got one
knackered one in the shed.. They also are quite bad on slopes. Mine often
gave me trouble on fairly minor side slopes - very rich running and
necessitating a foot constantly on the throttle to keep the engine running.
Icing up has been a problem too normally after a mile or two in cold
weather. Best way to avoid is by light throttle openings only  until the
engine's really hot. Having a radiator muff helped that too. On the plus
side I got an extra couple of mpgs on a weber. They do need to be used with
an inline filter - lots more prone to blocking up than the other 2.

By far the best option is to fit an SU or Stromberg. You'll need to get
someone to make a 90 deg adapter bend for the inlet, but from experience on
many cars they're superb carbs when set up and don't go wrong often. Never
tried this conversion on an LR yet, but saw it done on a IIA - owner
reported superb results & 23mpg!! If not the weber is the best of the
others.

Have fun...

Andy
Alex - 20 Sep 2004 15:46 GMT
>Bruce is thinking of getting a webber carb for the lightweight and just
>wanted to know if it would be a good move.  What differences will there be
>compared to the standard fitted one?

If you've got a solex, you'll need to change the throttle linkage by
the carb, as it has to move in the opposite direction. I think the
Zenith is a straight swap, barring the adapter plate.

I've never liked the Solex carb myself, but that's down to personal
choice. The Zeniths tend to suffer from poor quality
materials/manufacture.

The two downsides to the weber are the small float chamber, which
gives problems on sideslopes, and minimal reserve should your fuel
pump give trouble.

Secondly the cold start seems quirky, requiring full choke for
starting, but very quickly requiring only a minimal amount of choke
for idling, otherwise it stops. Then you get it idling on a little
choke, only to find it coughs and dies, or hesitates when you attempt
to accelerate. Pulling the choke out some more cures this problem, but
results in far too rich idling, which will cause it to conk out. Once
warmed up, it's fine though.

As for performance/economy the Weber and the Zenith seem largely
indistinguishable, both seem to give roughly the same power. If your
carb is in good order, then keep it, I don't see any point in changing
it for the sake of changing, it won't benifit you an awfull lot.

Fitting an SU carb makes a marked difference, but you have to factor
in the cost of both the carb and a manifold as well, which makes it
expensive.

Alex
N.R.Fisher - 20 Sep 2004 17:40 GMT
> Secondly the cold start seems quirky, requiring full choke for
> starting, but very quickly requiring only a minimal amount of choke
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> results in far too rich idling, which will cause it to conk out. Once
> warmed up, it's fine though.

Glad it's not just me then!!

I've been running a weber for the last nine years, and the only
complaint I'd give is the cold start running. Once the engine's warm it
runs perfectly. Don't think I've ever experienced carb icing.

Neil.
Alex - 20 Sep 2004 22:56 GMT
>> Secondly the cold start seems quirky, requiring full choke for
>> starting, but very quickly requiring only a minimal amount of choke
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>complaint I'd give is the cold start running. Once the engine's warm it
>runs perfectly. Don't think I've ever experienced carb icing.

No, it's not you, I've got 3 landrovers with webers, and they all do
it! One of these days I'll take the cold start idle cam off one and
remake it to get a bit more idle on choke, it makes the problem less
apparent, as you then tend to idle on the main jet more, not the idle
jet. I think the cold start running problem is the fault of the idle
jet, rather than the main jet.

I've not had icing with mine, perhaps that's just luck. I've had
vapour lock on one, but that was due to someone fitting an inline fuel
filter (you know, the plastic ones) next to the carb.

If you're fitting an inline fuel filter, the correct place for it is
by the tank, not by the carb! Fitting it next to the carb not only
causes grit to pass through the fuel pump, which isn't a particularly
good idea, but also causes vapour lock on long runs.

Alex
Sean Ryan - 20 Sep 2004 20:11 GMT
Andy and Alex have just done the best two posts I think I have ever
seen on this subject on any forum. When asked about Webers my usual
reply is don't do it, stick to the Zenith (having had grief with both
on past Landies) but they have provided some food for thought on this.

Cheers guys

Sean
73FL74 101GS
1984 110 2.5N/A
Medway Military Vehicle Group
www.mmvg.net
Nikki Cluley - 20 Sep 2004 20:54 GMT
> Andy and Alex have just done the best two posts I think I have ever
> seen on this subject on any forum. When asked about Webers my usual
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Medway Military Vehicle Group
> www.mmvg.net

Printed replies off and Bruce is reading them now.  Thanks.
Signature

Nikki

1990 Discovery V8i
1985 Range Rover V8
1975 88" Series III 2.25 petrol
1979 Series III Lightweight 2.25 petrol

Alex - 20 Sep 2004 22:52 GMT
>> Andy and Alex have just done the best two posts I think I have ever
>> seen on this subject on any forum. When asked about Webers my usual
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Printed replies off and Bruce is reading them now.  Thanks.

So much for the paperless concept of computing then....

Remember, mistakes are erased using the delete key, not with tippex on
the screen.

Alex
Nikki Cluley - 21 Sep 2004 03:13 GMT
>>> Andy and Alex have just done the best two posts I think I have ever
>>> seen on this subject on any forum. When asked about Webers my usual
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Alex

Bruce doesn't get on with computers so when he wants some info he gets me to
find it for him and I just print off the results.

Calls them conversation killers...although he has to admit they have their
uses!

Signature

Nikki

1990 Discovery V8i
1985 Range Rover V8
1975 88" Series III 2.25 petrol
1979 Series III Lightweight 2.25 petrol

"David G. Bell" - 21 Sep 2004 07:55 GMT
On Tuesday, in article
    <BD754CD0.FA58%nikki.cluley@ntlorld.com>

> Bruce doesn't get on with computers so when he wants some info he gets me to
> find it for him and I just print off the results.
>
> Calls them conversation killers...although he has to admit they have their
> uses!

I've had quite a few conversations via computer, but I do see his point.  
And a friend of mine did once send an email to his wife on the other
side of the room.

Signature

David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

Simon Isaacs - 21 Sep 2004 19:55 GMT
> On Tuesday, in article
>      <BD754CD0.FA58%nikki.cluley@ntlorld.com>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And a friend of mine did once send an email to his wife on the other
> side of the room.

We have a hell of a lot of that at work.  People who sit next to each other
will e-mail rather than simply look across the 3 feet that separate them.  I
asked why they do it.  The answer was "Proof".  The department they work in
is subject to a large of back stabbing, so by e-mailing they have proof that
they raised the issue, and that it was read, rather than a forgotten
conversation.....

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale!  Make me an
offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Fianc?e's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and
mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk
Andy Warner - 21 Sep 2004 00:15 GMT
> Secondly the cold start seems quirky, requiring full choke for
> starting, but very quickly requiring only a minimal amount of choke
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> results in far too rich idling, which will cause it to conk out. Once
> warmed up, it's fine though.

I agree! In the end I left the choke disconnected on mine! I've got a hand
throttle. The best technique I found was to dance about on the pedal for a
few seconds to get the engine running, and then set a nice high idle on the
hand throttle. This seems to work better than any choke usage and avoid
icing up to a certain extent...

When I wasn't running an inline filter for a while, I found that using the
choke had an amazing ability to clog up the idle jet, something to do with
the increased fuel flow I think, though where the crap kept on appearing
from I don't know?!
Alex - 21 Sep 2004 22:24 GMT
>> Secondly the cold start seems quirky, requiring full choke for
>> starting, but very quickly requiring only a minimal amount of choke
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>hand throttle. This seems to work better than any choke usage and avoid
>icing up to a certain extent...

Mmm. A hand throttle would be handy, I'll have to ferret around for a
IIa one.

>When I wasn't running an inline filter for a while, I found that using the
>choke had an amazing ability to clog up the idle jet, something to do with
>the increased fuel flow I think, though where the crap kept on appearing
>from I don't know?!

Fuel tank shedding it's inner lining of rust, I suspect. I've just
changed a fuel tank on one of mine as I had problems with fuel
starvation. Mind you, not before I'd changed the fuel lines, swapped a
carb and fitted another fuel pump. But it kept blocking up the pickup
tube, and I got sick and tired of attempting to clean the tank out,
after having to remove the tank for the third time, I replaced it with
a new one. That damn filler hose on a SWB Series is a bitch.

Alex
Richard Brookman - 22 Sep 2004 11:45 GMT
Alex <nospam.alex@cbmsys.co.uk> wrote in message

That damn filler hose on a SWB Series is a bitch.

> Alex

Glad to hear you say that!  I suspect a badly-fitted filler/breather
on my 2a.  PO fitted a new tank quite recently, but if I fill it up to
the brim of the filler tube it p*sses fuel all over.  9/10 full, no
problem.  If the filler tube is a bitch to fit, that would explain why
it wasn't done very well.

Any suggestions or hints for when I take it apart and put it right?
Is the cover behind the bulkhead meant to screwed *and* riveted in
place?

TIA

Rich
Series 2a
RR 4.6HSE
The rest
Alex - 22 Sep 2004 19:19 GMT
>Alex <nospam.alex@cbmsys.co.uk> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Is the cover behind the bulkhead meant to screwed *and* riveted in
>place?

Just screwed in on mine. However, the replacement hose obtainable is
not the correct one for the vehicle, I believe it is for a 90 instead.
Whilst similar, it does not have the same curves, and I had to enlarge
the holes in the bulkhead and the rear tub, to avoid chafing and
cutting the new hose. Also, the new hose is a better material, but the
rubber is twice as thick as the old one.

It's possible that yours may have been changed and chafed, which would
make it leak.

Word of advice - it is 100 times easier to fit the hose if you unrivet
the fuel filler from the back tub, and remove it. Fit the hose in and
then fit the filler neck back into the top of the hose. Attempting to
do it without removing the filler is damn near impossible

Funnily enough, it's a piece of piss on the 109", as the filler is all
on one side of the bulkhead.

Alex
Richard Brookman - 23 Sep 2004 10:52 GMT
Alex >
> Word of advice - it is 100 times easier to fit the hose if you unrivet
> the fuel filler from the back tub, and remove it. Fit the hose in and
> then fit the filler neck back into the top of the hose. Attempting to
> do it without removing the filler is damn near impossible

I thought you might say that - oh well, out with the rivet gun again.

Thanks for the advice.

Rich
Alex - 23 Sep 2004 18:39 GMT
>Alex >
>> Word of advice - it is 100 times easier to fit the hose if you unrivet
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Thanks for the advice.

Well, you can try it without, but you might save yourself time by
unriveting it in the first place.....

Alex
Richard Brookman - 23 Sep 2004 20:43 GMT
>> Alex >
>>> Word of advice - it is 100 times easier to fit the hose if you
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Alex

Oh, I always take rivets off with a rivet gun.  It takes longer than with a
drill, but it's much noisier and more satisfying.

;-)

Signature

Rich

Series 2a
RR 4.6
V8 trialler
dog, wife, kids, whatever

Richard Brookman - 11 Oct 2004 13:16 GMT
Alex <nospam.alex@cbmsys.co.uk> wrote

> >That damn filler hose on a SWB Series is a bitch.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >the brim of the filler tube it p*sses fuel all over.  9/10 full, no
> >problem.  

> Funnily enough, it's a piece of piss on the 109", as the filler is all
> on one side of the bulkhead.

Had a proper look at it over the weekend - the screws holding the
pickup pipe and the blanking plate on the tank were finger tight only,
and the fuel was pouring out over the top of the tank when I filled
up.  I've screwed them back in fairly tight, with a good coating of
hylomar on the cork gaskets, and it seems to be OK.  Thanks for the
help.

Rich
Shaun - 14 Oct 2004 18:00 GMT
I agree entirely with the Weber rough running comments (after a cold
start).  Fine in summer but as we hit the colder weather I get the
stalling/rough running for the first few miles - a swine when you hit
a traffic jam as soon as you leave the office.

I also agree with the comments about SWB fuel filler hose - the hose
shape didn't seem right and I had to enlarge the bulkhead and
disconnect various bits to make it work .. even then the hose seems
uncomfortably taut ...I am sure that's why the old one started
cracking under strain!
Austin Shackles - 14 Oct 2004 21:00 GMT
>I agree entirely with the Weber rough running comments (after a cold
>start).  Fine in summer but as we hit the colder weather I get the
>stalling/rough running for the first few miles - a swine when you hit
>a traffic jam as soon as you leave the office

doesn't need a warm air input does it?  might be icing.
 
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