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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2004Stupid Insurance Companies
Hi People, Right I am going to name and shame. Three weeks ago I got my 88 inch Series 3. So I insured with Firebond, reasonable amount at ?188 for third party fire and theft, business use. They took ?67 as a deposit and sent me my documents. I had got them out of a Land Rover magazine. I filled in details of the modifications that I had undertaken in the last three weeks. Really radical stuff like:- Soundproofing the Cab, Adding rear seatbelts, Fitting a louder horn, Putting the spare wheel on the bonnet, even though it has the fittings already, Finally the massive one - putting chequerplate on my front bumper. Well with this amount of radical modifications they decide they would have to cancel my insurance. Within seven days I would be uninsured. People be cautious with Firebond you do any modifications your insurance is invalid. I could not believe it considering that they advertise in a Land Rover magazine. Anyway at the moment I am trying to get back my deposit. I cannot say much more as I am making a complaint to their Managing Director. So I started to telephone around. Secure Direct would not insure the vehicle as I had put chequerplate on the bumper and they had never heard of someone doing that!!! They even asked why I had soundproofed it!!! Some other companies who advertise in Land Rover Magazines did not know what a Series 3 was. What a breath of fresh air when I phoned up Sureterm Direct - they said straight away - well with a Land Rover you do modify it, people like to play. My modifications made no difference whatsoever and they considered they were minor, the only time they get worried is if I put a 5.7 litre Chevy engine in. So they qouted me, wait for it: ?173 Fully Comprehensive, Class 1 Business, Green Lane use, loads of benefits and the deposit was less. I could have kissed them. So I am now with Sureterm Direct and not FIREBOND. Andrew I have been quoted happy. Always worth talking to NFU Insurance to them its a Landrover, period! > Hi People, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > I have been quoted happy. >Always worth talking to NFU Insurance to them its a Landrover, period! yeah, right. They upped the price of the newer of the 2 discos (1995, so hardly new) by 26.5% this year, for no obvious reason. can't get any sense out of them as to why - either it's 'cos more discos are in high-risk situations, or else they're trying to recoup losses made elsewhere. not much choice here, as most of the "cheapo" insurers won't touch the school work "hire and reward" aspect, so we pay up and look big. I get mightily pissed off by insurance companies in general. They assess risks, charge premiums (usually, if you look into it, they take more from you over a period of years than they ever pay out) and make a profit, and then when the screw up and get it wrong and have to make lots of payouts (e.g. for floods) do they turn around and say "sorry, you don't get any dividend this year"? do they buggery. in the first place they chase after their underwriters for the cash[1], and then miraculously all the insurance rates go up by way over the inflation rate. I reckon I'm gonna start me an insurance company. Trouble is, I'm too basically honest. [1] if you're a "name" at Lloyds, for example, then you can be liable for serious amounts of money if it all goes tits-up. But the shareholders don't cough, I bet. >I get mightily pissed off by insurance companies in general. That's about all there is to say, really. >>I get mightily pissed off by insurance companies in general. > >That's about all there is to say, really. I heard a snippet on the news that the European court has decided that it is unfair for insurance companies to give women favourable quotes on the basis of their gender. About time too - if they decided black people were higher risk there'd be uproar, but it's OK to act prejudicially against young men, company directors etc that they have no prior knowledge of.  SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com >I heard a snippet on the news that the European court has decided that >it is unfair for insurance companies to give women favourable quotes >on the basis of their gender. About time too - if they decided black >people were higher risk there'd be uproar, but it's OK to act >prejudicially against young men, company directors etc that they have >no prior knowledge of. Great, so they'll up the premiums for women and leave the rate for us blokes the same. Nick > I heard a snippet on the news that the European court has decided that > it is unfair for insurance companies to give women favourable quotes > on the basis of their gender. About time too - if they decided black > people were higher risk there'd be uproar, but it's OK to act > prejudicially against young men, company directors etc that they have > no prior knowledge of. My insurance is high because I live in the inner city where the crowded roads often have accidents and my vehicles are kept in the street where there is chance of them being stolen, broken into or damaged by another vehicle. These high premiums are clearly unfair and the insurance company obviously has it in for people living in Hackney. Rates should be levelled so that people like me pay no more than someone living in the country or suburbs with their cars locked in the garage. -- Keith (London, UK) Land Rover Discovery 300TDI Triumph Sprint Executive Piaggio X9 > I heard a snippet on the news that the European court has decided that > it is unfair for insurance companies to give women favourable quotes > on the basis of their gender. About time too - if they decided black > people were higher risk there'd be uproar, but it's OK to act > prejudicially against young men, company directors etc that they have > no prior knowledge of. I'm OK with this, in principle. Insurance is, after all, a business, and it is fair enough that they base preimums on the likelihood of having to pay out. If you were guaranteeing to cover someone's liabilities up to a couple of million, wouldn't you want to discriminate between a 20-year-old male in a BMW and a 50-year-old woman in a Fiesta? Taken to its logical extreme, removing discrimination like this is absurd. You couldn't vary charges according to whether a car was garaged or not, as that would discriminate against poorer people who had to park on the street. Or against people with drink-driving convictions because they had an "illness". Or against people with a bad accident record because they might be just unlucky. It would also remove a deterrent (to those of us who choose to insure our vehicles, at least) - if you knew your premiums would stay the same no matter how bad your driving was, where is the incentive to improve? I take your point, though. If you are a middle-class, middle-aged, employed, heterosexual male who pays his taxes and plays by the rules, you are fair game for any amount of discrimination these days, sadly. SignatureRich Series 2a RR 4.6 V8 trialler dog, wife, kids, whatever >>>I get mightily pissed off by insurance companies in general. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >prejudicially against young men, company directors etc that they have >no prior knowledge of. It isn't prejudice it is detailed statistical analysis by actuaries [1]. Women are less likely to have an accident, young men under 25 are more likely to do so. [1] Actuaries - people who find accountancy too exciting. Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting >>>>I get mightily pissed off by insurance companies in general. >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >likely to do so. >[1] Actuaries - people who find accountancy too exciting. It is prejudicial. Without any knowledge of my driving skills, my personality, the type of driving I do or any other important factor they pre-judge that I am a high risk because lots of other company directors have accidents. That is, by definition, prejudicial. If I resign my directorship tomorrow I will be no more or less likely to have an accident, I will simply belong to a different statistical grouping and my insurance will be cheaper. Likewise, the young lady who drove me through a 30 limit at 65mph this afternoon, over a blind hill and bend in front of a factory gate pays less to insure her Golf VR6 than I do for my family Volvo estate. Because she belongs to a different statistical group, not based on any knowledge of that individual and the risk they present. Hypothetically, if the actuaries were to find that black men had more accidents than white men and loaded premiums accordingly (or refused to quote to black men), do you think it would be accepted? What would be the difference? SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com While i was searching for insurance for my RRC, I telephoned, as a laugh, the female only insurance company for a quote, Diamond i think they are called (or was it 'the pink triangle'???), and they flatly refused to quote me, I complained it was sexual prejudice, the answer was they could refuse to quote anyone !!!!!! If I look at the previous posting I have to agree totally with the unfairness of categorisation: Up until a few years ago I was a company director and it is true the premiums were loaded, however the insurance company at that time did not take into account any of the following facts: Driving for 25 years Not 1 single accident that was my fault (never a claim against me) HGV Class 1 held for 20 years IAM On one quote at that time I changed my job title and the premiums dropped by about 30%. Even now, conversely, insurance companies seem to ignore the 'safest' drivers' job titles, i am now a driving instructor (surely one of the safest drivers to insure) which is basically ignored by all but a few companies !!!! Given my history, current job.....and in a RR, am i safer to insure than a blonde bimbo in a mini????? The statistics can be manipulated in many ways but the facts are that there are fewer female drivers than men and female drivers travel substantially less miles, per head, than male drivers, so on the face of it, yes, women have fewer accidents, but, if you do the calculation to include miles driven etc, the result is different. I do agree, however, with the fact that new drivers between 19 and 25 do have more accidents. AlunP >The statistics can be manipulated in many ways but the facts are that there >are fewer female drivers than men and female drivers travel substantially >less miles, per head, than male drivers, so on the face of it, yes, women >have fewer accidents, but, if you do the calculation to include miles driven >etc, the result is different. I do agree, however, with the fact that new >drivers between 19 and 25 do have more accidents. mind, I've had 4 vehicle-damaging accidents[1] over my 21 years on the road, and only 1 of them was while I was in that age bracket. That was also the one where I was probably most to blame, mind. One was in dodgy snow-slush conditions, 2 on narrow roads with blind corners, one of which was mostly not my fault (other driver going much too fast) and the other I regard the 50-50 insurance result as a fair cop - I could have in theory done more to avoid it and so could the other bloke. [1] not counting the one that fell apart on the road and crashed as a result... didn't hit anything else though. >called (or was it 'the pink triangle'???), Probably not. >and they flatly refused to quote >me, I complained it was sexual prejudice, >the answer was they could refuse >to quote anyone !!!!!! Yup, tis their right - right or wrong, to do so. Women do have far less accidents. They see many more than men, though... >It is prejudicial. Without any knowledge of my driving skills, my >personality, the type of driving I do or any other important factor [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >to quote to black men), do you think it would be accepted? What would >be the difference? now that'd be a good 'un. Black men driving BMWs... imagine the outcry about racism... prolly find their insurance is cheaper... I found this once. If I were married, my insurance would've been some large percentage cheaper. Annoyed me at the time and much like your company director thing, I imagine. If I were married and had 3 screaming brats in the back seat and a nagging wife in the front, I'd be *more* likely to have accidents as a result of being distracted. Well the answer is simple join a religion that allows polygomy take 6 wives and have someone pay you to be insured. :-)) > I found this once. If I were married, my insurance would've been some large > percentage cheaper. Annoyed me at the time and much like your company [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wife in the front, I'd be *more* likely to have accidents as a result of > being distracted. >Likewise, the young lady who drove me through a 30 limit at 65mph this >afternoon, over a blind hill and bend in front of a factory gate pays >less to insure her Golf VR6 than I do for my family Volvo estate. >Because she belongs to a different statistical group, not based on any >knowledge of that individual and the risk they present. Yes, yes, yes... But was she pretty? >>Likewise, the young lady who drove me through a 30 limit at 65mph this >>afternoon, over a blind hill and bend in front of a factory gate pays [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Yes, yes, yes... But was she pretty? She still is, in fact. And her bloke has just bought a P38 Range Rover at 80,000 miles with the original 4.0. So all our thoughts should be with her and the financial ruin that awaits. SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com Hey Guys if females want to think they are better drivers, let them......statistics can prove whatever you like but don't lower yourselves to their tittle tattle. Strangely, most of the intelligent females I've spoken to have found Tesco cheaper for car insurance than pink triangle, or whatever they're called!! > >>>>I get mightily pissed off by insurance companies in general. > >>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > to quote to black men), do you think it would be accepted? What would > be the difference? I have my Ninety with firebond. Personal use, ?123.00 fully comp. They took into account :- Non-standard air filter, Chequer plate wing tops and rear corners,CB radio, Bull-bar, front and rear diff guards, jackable sills,steering gaurd, polybushes, larger tyres, off-road/greenlane use. Evrything I threw at them, they said ok! Stew. -- 1990 LR ninety (Jasmine) with bits on! 2002 Freelander Td4 ES (wifes) > Hi People, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > I have been quoted happy. Weird - why have they been so awkward with me then? Iwas polite and corteous. I even was very friendly on the phone. A >I have my Ninety with firebond. Personal use, ?123.00 fully comp. They took > into account :- Non-standard air filter, Chequer plate wing tops and rear [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >> >> I have been quoted happy. > Weird - why have they been so awkward with me then? Iwas polite and > corteous. I even was very friendly on the phone. It's probably not Firebond themselves - they're a broker. It was probably the actual insurer you were with wouldn't cover a modified car. If you'd asked Firebond for a requote rather than maintaining the current policy then they'd probably have come back with another company who could cover you. P. SignatureThe email address above is real. http://www.geekstuff.tv/Landies/ You probably got diverted to the call centre in India or wherever. >Weird - why have they been so awkward with me then? Iwas polite and >corteous. I even was very friendly on the phone. [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >>> >>> I have been quoted happy. Signaturehugh Reply to address is valid at the time of posting > People be cautious with Firebond you do any modifications your insurance is > invalid. I could not believe it considering that they advertise in a Land > Rover magazine. Anyway at the moment I am trying to get back my deposit. I > cannot say much more as I am making a complaint to their Managing Director. I was getting a quote off them an I reeled off all the bits on the 110, including all the guards, the Rangie V8 in it, the sports exhaust, MT tyres and so on. All was well until I said it had a suspension lift, at which point the bloke basically said "Oh, right, we can't insure you then. Bye." Bizzare. SignaturePaul Everett repton at repton dot org http://www.repton.org/ >What a breath of fresh air when I phoned up Sureterm Direct - they said >straight away - well with a Land Rover you do modify it, people like to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >less. I could have kissed them. So I am now with Sureterm Direct and not >FIREBOND. They are kind to modifications, and resonably priced, but now that you have a policy with them prepare to be bombarded with letters and phone calls! They started sending me recorded delivery nagging letters telling me to hurry up and send my forms back before i'd even recieved the cover note. At the end of the policy, they wouldnt stop ringing up till i told them to bugger off and that i was never using them again! (It took 3 phone calls where i actually spoke to them, and about 5 where theyd left messages with various family members for me) >>What a breath of fresh air when I phoned up Sureterm Direct - they said >>straight away - well with a Land Rover you do modify it, people like to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >phone calls where i actually spoke to them, and about 5 where theyd >left messages with various family members for me) They also have a funny misprint in the letter telling you to hurry up and send the photos of your vehicle. It says that you should send the pictures 'at least 21 days after your proposal is accepted', when they clearly mean 'not more than 21 days'. Which reminds me - I haven't sent mine in yet and they have promised to cancel my policy next week if I don't! SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com Try contacting "Watchdog" BBC, they come up on a net search. You may get a response. Also phone Ins. and ask for the press officer, if they put you through tell them you are going to the press and would like their thoughts before you do, if they will not simply tell the muppet at the end of the phine the same. The latter seems to have quite spectacular results in some cases, I did it with Argos and they replied and sorted out in 30 minutes after two months of fart arsing around. Keep a record of names when phoning with times. > Hi People, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > fittings already, > Finally the massive one - putting chequerplate on my front bumper. Can I just give a plug to Carloe Nash brokers? I have my bike with them and rang up everyone for the Series III. I have no no-claims on it as it's a second car and my NCB is used on the Rangey. They have got me cover, fully comp plus legal and breakdown, for SDP and commuting, green lane and off-road use for ?111. Not too bad a I reckon. |
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